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countries were murdered on our soil. >> secretary of defense james mattis speaking at the pentagon this morning where 184 people were killed 17 years ago today. in all, nearly 3,000 people died in the attacks, the worst ever in the united states. as we remember and honor all those who lost their lives, and the men and women who showed incredible bravery in the response. the question we have to ask is, are we safer today? to help answer this, i'm joined by ali safan. he was one of the lead investigators for the fbi. even before 9/11, he was already focused on al qaeda and osama bin laden. he's also the author of anatomy of terror. you've been working on this issue much longer than most americans have been thinking about this, are we safer given what we didn't do right?
that? >> yes. they helped them pick the sites. more over, i talked to ali safan who was the case agent on the uss cole and the was the most significant interrogator. >> the uss cole which was bombed in yemen. >> right. he interviewed many of the suspects that were picked up in pakistan after they came out of tora bora. and he said in every single case, he said they were met by lashkari taibeh operatives who took them to safe houses. and lashkar is widely seen as being an apparatus of the isi, supported and nurtured by it, as is the taliban. >> how can it be, though, this country which we have given billions of dollars. >> millions. >> and continue to is playing this kind of double, triple game? >> well, they have gotten away with it because we're so paralyzed with fear about their nuclear weapons and what might with those. but anderson, we're going to have to find a way to call the bluff on this nuclear game,
of al qaeda then i think the die is cast for that organization. >> in pakistan there are other groups, lashkar-e-taiba -- i may be pronouncing it wrong. >> that's correct. >> they were involved in the mumbai attack. which was really, when you think about it, it seems like we're seeing an increasing number of these kind of handful of people launching an operation with pretty limited weapons. and in the case of the mumbai attack they were able to paralyze a major city. we also saw there was an attack i think at an indian embassy in kabul. there was an attack in pakistan as well. does that seem to be the new model for attacks? >> well, the model that you're talking about is the handiwork of pakistani intelligence. >> the isi or a branch of it. >> the isi. yes. for instance, we have indictments in chicago having to do with the mumbai attack. charging isi with coordinating and directing those attacks. >> they were actually -- had hands on on that? >> yes. they helped them pick the sites. moreover, i talked to ali safan,