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Barrack and those people who allegedly were involved in the scheme with him. so you can't think of this just as a law was broken and are we going to prosecute it or are we not. you have to look much more broadly about the ways in which that makes the united states vulnerable, the ways it makes president trump vulnerable and think of all the things we still don't know because we haven't yet done a really thorough look at all the different things that were going on by the administration from a counterintelligence perspective. >> well, that also in this specific instance puts a real bull's-eye on...

Guess what? that gives the emiratis leverage over not only barrack but all the folks he's been dealing with in the white house. and guess what? communications are no longer anywhere in this world where it's just between the two people who are talking. so if say, the saudis were listening in on those conversations, if the qataris were listening in on those conversations, if the russians were listening in on the conversations, everybody who was aware of what was going on, suddenly by virtue of that information has leverage to be able to influence the actions of president trump, the people around...

Served with ronald reagan and george h.w. bush. so he feels right now is really a trampling on not only the institutions we rely onto protect us but also the laws that have served this country so well for so long. i think it really speaks volumes to just how serious the threat is to this country's security. >> i'm curious what you make of one aspect of this story which is the strangeness of the role the lawyer's president has taken on. here you have a private individual who is going and talking to representatives of foreign governments, ex-officials communicating in an unsecured manner with th...

Ex-officials in those foreign governments, communicating presumably in unsecured manner with them, is thinsetting polic perhaps. it seems, frankly, like a nightmare from a counterintelligence perspective or a national security perspective. >> i think rudy giuliani is masquerading as donald trump's lawyer. he is this personal envoy who is trying to seek out dirt on the political rivals of donald trump. so he's engaged in thee activities that are clearly not coordinated with the department of state, as our ambassadors and others have attested to. and so, therefore, rudy giuliani is just this rog...

Machine guns and we can't bring a knife to it. and i'm not saying do anything dishonest, but we have to find a way to take what is happening there and make it so compelling to the voter because otherwise we're going to get more years of donald trump. and we can't survive for you more years. >> well, if we run your threat -- give us a sober reality check from a counterintelligence perspective. how do you break the spell for republicans, men like richard burr who used to be trusted at the highest levels of government as actually carrying about things like the u.s. inte intelligence community and...