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The Saturday Show with Jonathan Capehart

when will the three judge panel hand down the ruling? >> i'm surprised we don't have that yet. >> because after that exchange we just played, it should seem like a slam dunk to me. and like that afternoon, there should have been -- >> it's not the decision, it's the rationale. and i think that is important to understand. it's not necessarily the decision, it's how they craft the decision, what they say, and what it actually means. are they going to remanded, are they going to send it back for different reasons. and all of this matters, in terms of the timeline. i expect that we will get a decision within the next two weeks, more likely than not within this week. so that's my prediction. >> okay, so he always does these, charles does these brought -- it could be within two weeks. but my prediction is, this week. and you know what, and take that right to the bank. >> and you should. >> it's going to be this. week. >> but watch for the rationale, that's the key here. because that's going to determine what happens next. >> so ruth, this echoes trump's

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The Saturday Show with Jonathan Capehart

refused to condemn trump's authoritarian anti democratic rhetoric. >> again i ask, is donald trump a threat to our democracy? >> so here's what i'd say. i think a lot of the rhetoric of donald trump, to me, a lot of that is bluster. >> did you catch joe scarborough's face there? joining me now, stuart stevens, he is a senior adviser to the lincoln project, and author of the conspiracy to end america, five ways my old party is driving the democracy to autocracy. also with us, christina greer. she is an associate professor of political science at -- university. and author of black ethnics, race, immigration, and the pursuit of the american dream. thank you both very much for coming back to the saturday show. stuart, what does it say about desantis that he won't call the guy he is trying to beat a threat to democracy? >> well look, i think if this guy does, as it's predicted here, if he gets around ten to 15%, i don't see how he stays

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The Saturday Show with Jonathan Capehart

♪ ♪ ♪ good evening. thank you for joining us in our brand-new timeslot. we really begin with the iowa caucuses, which are just two days away. and they could be the coldest caucuses ever recorded in the state. right now, temperatures are hovering around zero, with wind chills even lower. today, the clear front runner, donald trump, urged his supporters to brave the cold and show up to caucus, telling them he would be in iowa, possibly as soon as tonight. but so far this week, they've only seen the four times indicted on 91 counts disgraced former president campaigning around courtrooms. on thursday, he attended the closing arguments, in the 370 million dollar civil fraud trial against him. the trial that could put an end to trump's financial empire in new york. in a surprising turn of events, judge arthur engoron allowed trump to speak but, with a warning. to quote, just comment on the facts and the law. and, in a not so surprising turn of events, trump did the opposite, going on a familiar five minute rant, attacking the judge, and attempting to cast himself as a victim who is being unfairly, quoted, persecuted.

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The Saturday Show with Jonathan Capehart

but the most consequential hearing took place on tuesday, at the d. c. federal appeals court, which at any moment could rule on trump's claim that he is immune from criminal prosecution for attempting to overturn the 2020 election, because he was president at the time. both trump and special counsel jack smith or in the courtroom when trump's lawyers made this chilling argument, after one of the three panel judges asked this sobering question. >> could a president who ordered seal team six to assassinate political rival, who was not impeached, would he be subject to criminal prosecution? >> if he were impeached and convicted first. >> so your answer is no? >> my answer is qualified yes. there is a political process that would have to occur under our, the structure of the constitution. >> joining me now, former senator claire mccaskill of virginia, of missouri,or claire and. she is also an msnbc political

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The Saturday Show with Jonathan Capehart

assassinate someone, a political rival. the other part that wasn't said, but goes with this victimhood cult, is that he may have to do it to protect them, and to protect himself. >> you know claire, we've got about a minute before we have to take a real quick break. but, what about this notion. i think we had on our air someone who was being interviewed, who basically said trump is taking all of the hits for us, because that really coming after us. this person was parroting trump's own argument. >> yeah listen, this guy is a marketer, he has, his integrity is rock-bottom, his character is laughable. but he is a marketer, that's all he's ever been in his life, a huckster and a marketer and a con man. and he knows how to do that. he knows how to tap into that vein of grievance, in a way that no other person running for the highest office in the country's ever dared to do. that's who he is. you know, he's not campaigning in iowa, he's campaigning in the courtrooms.

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The Saturday Show with Jonathan Capehart

so chris christie to me is an incredible source in this way. i mean, i think stewart is correct, this is where the party is, and what the republican party is selling his fear. donald trump scares voters into a vision of what he thinks america's. elected officials in the republican aisle are so afraid of donald trump, they are afraid of their primary voters, who digest all of what donald trump is selling them. so, chris christie to me is just one of the many feckless republicans who could have, and should have, stood up to donald trump much earlier. and now to me, it sounds like a lot of too little too late. it is great that you have ho mic, but you didn't say any of this when it really mattered, to make sure that your party didn't run away with donald trump four years ago, five years ago. >> well yeah, there is that. you know stewart, politico called -- jonathan martin argues class will be the deciding factor in iowa and beyond. he writes, quote, haley and desantis are largely competing for the votes of iowa's upscale caucus goers, while trump is on course to roll with the overwhelming support of blue

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The Saturday Show with Jonathan Capehart

law school for him to make the kind of arguments he did, clearly the people who drafted the constitution did not have in mind that someone could be president, commit murder, mayhem, and rob and in bezel. and all he has to do is hold on to 35 votes in the senate, or just resign, before they have a chance to impeach, up and he goes scot-free. that is ludicrous on its face, and embarrassing for any lawyer. i don't care if you are an intern right out of law school, that was an embarrassing argument to make. >> right, and so, charles i would love to get your assessment of the ridiculous argument being made, that the president could order a political assassination, do all sorts of things that clare was just talking about, and could get away with it, unless he was impeached and then convicted by the senate. and we've had what, three presidents who have been impeached. all three, not convicted. so basically what trump's lawyer, and trump is arguing is i could do whatever i want. >> jonathan, it's bad lawyering, let's start there. you should not have made that

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The Saturday Show with Jonathan Capehart

analyst and co-host of the msnbc podcast how to win 2024. ruth ben-ghiat, history professor at nyu, and author of strongmen, mussolini to the president. and charles coleman junior, msnbc legal analyst, civil rights attorney, former brooklyn prosecutor, and the host of the charles coleman podcast. thank you all very much for spending part of your saturday evening with me. clare, your reaction to that stunning back and forth between trump's lawyer and the member of the appeals court. >> well, i'm ashamed to say he is from missouri. i'm ashamed that. well frankly, and the right has to be very disappointed, maga has to be very disappointed, because they have been peddling to america that all of the ivy league schools are hotbeds of socialism and communism, and brainwashing to the progressive left. this guy is a harvard law grad, how embarrassing for harvard

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The Saturday Show with Jonathan Capehart

different reasons. and all of this matters, in terms of the timeline. i expect that we will get a decision within two weeks, more likely than not within this week. so that's my prediction. >> okay, so he always does these, charles does these brought -- it could be within two weeks. but my prediction is, this week. and you know what, and take that right to the bank. >> and you should. >> it's going to be this. week >> but watch for the rationale, that's the key here. because that's going to determine what happens next. >> so ruth, this echoes trump's remarks, the famous remark trump made in 2016, which was i could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody, and i wouldn't lose any voters. now that rhetoric is dangerous, but what i want to know, is what does it say that he has been proven right, given his standing in the polls? >> it says that he knows what he is doing, as a propagandist, and it says that he is very, he's an authoritarian to the

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The Saturday Show with Jonathan Capehart

already blanketing the state. a new suffolk university poll shows nikki haley icing out rhonda sands for second place in iowa. both haley and desantis, however, are trailing way behind donald trump. a poll was conducted before chris christie exited the race, with this parting shot, calling out his gop rivals as trump enablers. >> any one who is unwilling to say that he is unfit to be president of the united states, is unfit themselves, to be president of the united states. >> and a few hours later, desantis proved his point. the florida governor repeatedly refused to condemn trump's authoritarian anti democratic rhetoric. >> again i ask, is donald trump a threat to our democracy? >> so here's what i'd say. i think a lot of the rhetoric of donald trump, to me, a lot of that is bluster. >> did you catch joe

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