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candidate to be speaker and about 20 don't and the 20 are calling the tune. that's an interesting way to do business. >> bret: right. you're talking about 10%. 10% is controlling the rest of it. and it's -- go ahead. >> bret: it would be like if you had a football team with 11 members and all but the left guard and the tight end wanted to do one play and the those two wanted to do another and thought they should, you know, they should rule the day. in a democratic system, where votes are what are supposed to matter, it doesn't work that way. these -- and, look, chip roy says they haven't moved the goal post. i'm not sure they have even established the goal post. and everything in your interview suggested to me that the goal posts are unclear. >> bret: very vague. i tried to get specifics and he wouldn't tell me. >> brit: you did everything you could. you made a yeomen effort. he said some things he would like and who knows what other -- don't know what matt gaetz wants or lauren boebert and some of the rest of this crew.
now, jake. >> it's interesting, melanie because mccarthy was trying to make that point yesterday before the voting began, saying that matt gaetz and others were demanding things for themselves. this wasn't about principle. this wasn't about a more open house legislative process, but despite matt gaetz only going to the floor with five total rebels, he ended up with 19. so that argument did not dissuade enough people. >> reporter: no, and some said that conference meeting with mccarthy made that pitch backfired and made people even more entrenched and i'll tell you among mccarthy's al lice, the -- allies, they're trying to suss out who is negotiating in good faith and get them to vote present, versus those who are like matt gaetz for example who are never going to vote for kevin mccarthy and keep moving the goal post. that's what they are trying to figure out there, and once they get a better sense of who's in that camp, they can really start to try to negotiate and figure
the count is happening right now. karl rove is with us. the chief of staff of fox news contributor. karl rove, i supposed you have to wonder what horse trading is being dumped in between the boats here? >> i'm more interesting the horsetrading that went on before hand. my understanding is that yesterday, wednesday, late in the afternoon into the evening, mccarthy made two concessions on the motion to vacate where he offered to allow such motions to take place in five-member supported it. the freedom caucus people wanted one and he conceded it. they also wanted a special committee, a committee to investigate the weaponization of the department of justice for the fbi. he agreed to let that happen. but what is interesting is after that, they moved the goal post. suddenly, they wanted to have scott peary made chairman of the committee and for perry to designate with the committee members were. no speaker has that authority.
just be pure obstructionism and what's so frustrating is the goal post seems to keep moving. we all asked this morning as a conference some of those individuals what will it take to get to 218 so we can move forward with the agenda that the voters elected us to move forward with and stop biden's agenda and there was no answer. bret, and that's what's frustrating. >> bret: you heard some of congresswoman elect lauren boebert's interview earlier. she listed a number of things, including votes on term limits and other things that they claim that kevin mccarthy said no to. and you pointed out your side saying the goal post had moved. if they stay united, all they need is 5 every vote, every ballot. so then do you shift? do you think kevin mccarthy is going to stay in this ballot after ballot until he gets the number he needs? or are you suddenly contemplating a steve scalise or
putting forward a term limits bill. having a measure in place to where any member of congress who offers an amendment to reduce the federal debt, well that's made an order. so many other things that weren't common sense. and even request that he had made of us that we presented to him. and right now it is seeming very difficult for kevin mccarthy to come back around and pick up those votes that i had in hand for him last night. opposition. >> bret: congresswoman, let me push back with what they say and what his allies say and that is that y'all are moving the goal post. in addition to the list you just mentioned you had a no confidence vote for speaker he got down to five members stand up and say this is not working for speaker. then moved to one member stand up and say there is no confidence in the speaker. that's number one, moving the goal post but number two, they say untenable for any leader. how do you respond to that?
do you think it's possible that mccarthy will not be the next speaker? >> i think the threat is real and i think it's possible. now, between now and the first vote tomorrow, he may get some of these nfellas back into the fold, but i doubt it. seems like they're going to go to the first ballot and he's not going to be successful. he's made concessions. only to have them move the goal post further on him. i think some of the opposition from some of these guys is personal. it may be a bit geographic. maybe they don't want a californian speaker. i don't know who they would support. maybe steve scalise, jim jordan. we've always had this rejectionist wing within the house republican congress. i was there for it. i saw it. in this case, they're against kevin mccarthy and i don't know what he can do for them. they're the five never kevin votes and now you have these other nine who have become public with their objections to
if i were still in the houz advising my pragmatic colleagues, i'd say we'll move the goal post, too. we're not going to agree to these rules changes. period. that's another fight they're going to have. i can't imagine every republican is going to agree to this rule the make it easier to vacate the chair. to remove the speaker if five members object. so if i were more pragmatic and moderate member, i don't know that i would agree to these concessions to get the votes from the hard liners of the congress. >> motion to vacate didn't used to be that big a deal. nancy pelosi removed it i think in 2019 when she became the speaker for the second time. before it existed and members of con congress, speakers of the house were just able to deal with it because it wasn't taken seriously. or they wielded power. you were there in 2015 when mark
as you know, the other party at times republicans would say secure the border, then we can do this. so the goal post keeps moving. let me say this, mexico and other countries have certain laws on the books right now. for example, mexico has a law that says that migrants or anybody has to come through a port of entry, an airport and leave the same way. what they're doing is against mexican law. so we have to get the mexicans and other countries to do more, otherwise we're going to be playing defense on the one yard line, called the u.s. border, instead of playing defense on their 20 yard line. we have to do something more. one more thing, the top 15 countries coming in, it's mexico, columbia, and of course venezuela, nicaragua and also
40,000 deaths a year so it is still a devastating pandemic so we're not out of this by any means. >> has the demographic of who are being affected the most severely evolved in this latest period you're saying 3 to 400, still a very large number, dying because of covid-19 right now. how is the demographics changed? >> in the past, among the delta wave for instance, in the early omicron wave, it was almost all of the unvanccinated, those who were unvaccinated were succumbing and losing their lives, and now we see the goal post and those not boosting are going into the hospital. and that's because of these escape variants, so it's so, even if you've gotten those first two doses of mrna vaccine way back when, it definitely would help, but if you really walt to ensure you're not going to hospital, you need to get that booster, and americans are
president is making those calls, he's not convincing folks. right? whether or not in regard to these sanctions, whether he's doing it on his own, it is not too far to leap that the former president likes to make calls and right now, the hard thing for kevin mccarthy, is to figure out what is going to appease the right, but also keep his base of support as big as possible. they debuted pins today that had okay, only kevin, and members are wearing them, that is how he is trying to make the case, that it is really only him. there is no alternative. and whether or not he had to chip away at those that are opposing, because of issues like the motion to vacate and some of the other issues of wanting to have bills for 72 hours before being voted on. the question is, do these sort of lawmakers keep moving the goal post, or is there anything that is going to appease them?