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On msnbc, maybe they say something that sounds brave. but at the end of the day, no one's leading any kind of charge. the only way this ends, chris, and michael knows this right now is boehner turns to nancy pelosi and says help the get the votes for something. and that has to be what the senate is going to do. it's been written. it's been preordained if we get out of it. i think there's still a possibility that we don't. it's really waiting for john bain tore wise up, let the babies cry it out and then turn partner with nancy pelosi like he's done before. >> this is the problem for boehner. i...

0 think will bring it down and call the roll. you have reasserted yourself as the leader of the house for as long as you hold the title. what would winston churchill do? what would a gutsy john boehner do? now back to you who are watching this craziness from some distance. the republicans' latest offer would reopen the government but only until december 15th. then would come just before christmas and the holidays another big government shutdown with all the trimmings. just to get that far, the right wing of the republican caucus is filling the president's bags with more lumps of coal. matters ...

It is fundamentally different. i do really believe this. if we get close to the line, people will see that as republicans out of control. >> how long are the republicans in danger on that list stay in line with john bain sner. >> that's the big question and i think you see that in john bain -- boehner's dishonesty. boehner doesn't believe he has the votes. he is lying or the republicans are lying. you and others have reported, there are a sufficient number of republicans not letting democracy work on the house floor.

It is fundamentally different. i do really believe this. if we get close to the line, people will see that as republicans out of control. >> how long are the republicans in danger on that list stay in line with john bain sner. >> that's the big question and i think you see that in john bain eers d -- boehner's dishonesty. boehner doesn't believe he has the votes. he is lying or the republicans are lying. you and others have reported, there are a sufficient number of republican

0 what if they have looked at the changing demographics and what if the republican party realizes that the presidency is increasingly a long shot for the republican party and they have decided it is time to end the imperial presidency? it is time to deny the president wherever possible. what if the republicans have decided it is time to shut down the presidency? >> if we get in a hapt where a few folks are allowed to extort concessions based on a threat, then any president who comes after me, not just me will find bunglors or do republicans know exactly what they are doing? >> joining me tonig...