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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

trump argument, comes down to nothing but the impeachment clause. let's listen to this. >> it just seems to me that if once you concede that presidents can be prosecuted under some circumstances, your separation of powers argument falls away, and the issues before us are narrowed to, are you correct in your interpretation of the impeachment judgment clause? does the impeachment judgment clause actually say what you say it says? that's all that we really need to decide. >> andrew, that's the whole case. >> absolutely. she was just laser focused. and to your point about why the defense lawyer is basically like, i need to sit down, is there were not very good arguments. i also think one area that he was asked and blew it was about president nixon. how is it the president nixon could be investigated? how did he get a pardon?

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

>> i feel that as a president you have to have immunity. very simple. and if you don't, there's an example of this case where a loss of immunity and i did nothing wrong. >> that's donald trump almost falling asleep. that's like what he says in the last minute before he gets whatever that hour and a half of sleep is every night. that's as sleepy as the man gets. >> it's going to be interesting because we are going to have at least one, i think, but maybe two or even three trials between now and the general election. >> manhattan? >> manhattan and the january 6th case. the case we just heard. i think those two are going to go. and you have donald trump understanding that this could be part of his victimization tour. in fact that seems to be what he is running on, as opposed to policies. so, one of the first things out of the box today was what i

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

appeal now, or must they send it back to the trial court immediately and allow this to be appealed, if at all, after the case is over? judge pan said there is strong precedent in the midland asphalt case. she called it strong precedent, that they don't have current jurisdiction. what did you make of that jurisdictional argument? >> i think that in the end, the court is likely to avoid bouncing the case back and forth on that basis because even though judge pam is certainly right and this is not the kind of issue that necessarily was before the court at the proper stage right now, there is also strong precedent saying the court in this circumstance can decide the merits when it's as obvious as it is here, and do that in a hypothetical way.

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

this case is a slam dunk for the reasons that you've already explored, but even more extremely, if it really were the case that you have to be impeached and convicted first, and if it would look like a president faced conviction, he could get seal team six to kill the senators who would vote to convict him and make it impossible to be convicted. no civilized society can work that way. so what this argument does is, it shows us in vivid color what donald trump means when he says he intends to terminate the constitution. if we had a constitution that allowed any president to commit crimes as long as he does so using the powers of his office, and then either because he resigns or because he does it too late to be impeached or too late to be convicted or contrives not to be convicted,

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

things for a prosecutor in this case will be if he takes the stand. >> i gotta figure out how to trick donald trump in to testify. if i say don't you dare testify, mighty testify? oh boy. let's hope he gives that final argument. andrew weissmann, thank you very much for joining us on this very important night. coming up, with the new hampshire republican presidential primary approaching, the boston globe published a poll with the answer to the real question of who will new hampshire voters vote for in november when it counts? joe biden or donald trump? new hampshire voters said they're going to do exactly what they did in the last presidential election, vote for joe biden by a winning margin of eight points. that's next.

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

and that the supreme court could look at a ruling by this three judge panel, a unanimous ruling possibly from this three judge panel, and say, that's it, this case is done, we're not taking it. >> entirely possible. there's no good reason for them to take it. there might be close difficult cases. the lawyer for the special counsel's office came up with a hypothetical in which perhaps a drone strike would have to be ordered by a president in very difficult circumstances where, whether it's criminal or not is unclear, and in that very limited circumstance where a president has to make an instantaneous decision for national security, there might be some kind of immunity. but nothing about this case is close in that way. and therefore it's quite possible that the supreme court would say, we don't want to use a slam dunk case like this in order to explore a bunch of hypotheticals.

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

judges, let alone a panel as qualified and smart as this one, were to give the trump argument the time of day. it's a ridiculous argument. it's not an argument that a real lawyer would've come up with, this idea of turning the impeachment judgment clause into a kind of magic wand of -- makes no sense. it might have made sense to donald trump. maybe he was the audience of one for the fast-talking john sauer in this case, because he obviously was pleased by the idea that, since he got away with not being convicted in the second impeachment trial, and got away with it because he committed his most serious crimes right at the very end of his presidency so that they could say that it's too late to convict you now. he could basically turn around

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

note to self, that's a great thing for the public to be able to listen in. and for the public to then see, this is somebody who is now running for office who is telling you exactly how they think they can commit criminal acts while in office. it's clear he's going to lose that argument in this court. >> and donald trump's lawyer was arguing that today joe biden can order the assassination of donald trump and never be prosecuted for it if he is not convicted in the senate trial. glenn, one of the things it was so striking to me was, i was settled in for three hours. i was provisioned for three hours because the same appeals court took over three hours to hear an appeal by donald trump 's lawyers, the same team, of the gag order, very limited gag order issued on him by judge chutkan in this case. that's a smaller issue. it has, perhaps, more complex edges to it involving the first

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

amendment. but here was the biggest issue to come to this court involving donald trump in this case. they were done with it in an hour and 15 minutes and trump's lawyer ran out of things to say. >> and what's interesting is you got the sense that each of the three judges made all of the points they wanted to make. i hate to say it, lawrence, but john sauer almost felt like a prop. this was the judges show. they were dropping truth bombs, they were dropping logic bombs and consistency bombs. the consistency bomb was one of my favorites. when they pointed to what another trump lawyer said on behalf of donald trump in the second impeachment trial when he said don't convict donald trump in the senate trial

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The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell

you're either representing yourself or you are not. if you have a lawyer, you don't get to speak when it's the lawyer's turn to speak. will new york allow donald trump to speak on the closing argument in that case? >> it's within the judge's discretion. but if the defendant decides to represent himself, you have to choose one or the other from the beginning. also, it's not allowed even if you are there and you decide you're going to do it, if you start testifying, you either are cut off or your subject to cross-examination. so you just can't talking in closing and say, this is what happened. if you do that, you hop on the stand and the other side gets to cross examine you. so this is one where donald trump may be saying this right now, but as we all have talked about, i think one of the best

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