handling of the pandemic. it is liz30am. now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i m stephen sackur. my guest today is an extremist of a very special kind. nothing to do with his political views, but recognition of a lifetime spent embracing physical challenges at the extreme limit of human endurance. sir ranulph fiennes has taken on and conquered the polar ice, the world s highest peaks and the most gruelling deserts. he s been described as one of the world s greatest living explorers. so, what is the motivation for this life of extreme adventure? sir ranulph fiennes, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. seems to me, your entire life, you ve spent testing yourself, challenging yourself. why this preoccupation with tests? it doesn t come about in that particular way, it comes about because of being brought up in south africa, arriving in the uk, not getting a levels that s what it comes from, because that s not what i wanted to do, it s what my dad had done, commanding the royal scots‘ greatest tank regiment when he was killed in the second world war, and i wanted to command that same wonderful scottish regiment, but in his day, you didn t require a levels to get sandhurst. in my time, you did, and i couldn t, and, therefore, i had a second grade of cadet school and would never become colonel of the regiment, so ijoined the regiment, but had only eight years of army service before you were thrown out. and so i didn t do what i wanted to do, and i did as long as i could in the army, and then i found myself with no income, i married my wife, jenny, who had virtually no income, and so we thought we d do what i d tried to do in the army, which was to do expeditions with soldiers, but that was paid for by the taxpayer. doing it with just my wife, the new word was sponsorship. get everything for nothing. you ve already developed several themes there, and one of them is important to your life and i think that s, in a way there s a sense of disappointment that you were not, despite the fact that you tried very hard to emulate your father. and it should be said your father actually was killed in action in the second world war, so you never knew him. you were born after he died, but you clearly wanted to emulate his brilliant military career, but you were not able to. was that always, and is it now, a disappointment to you? it is the biggest disappointment. i wanted for 2h years to do that, and then found that i d failed and couldn t do it, so i had to turn to something else. you ve just written a book about elite special forces throughout the course of human history and you actually write about your dad s own regiment, the royal scots greys, a cavalry regiment, which has been involved in some of the most famous battles that the uk military has seen. you did, for a while, serve in that force yourself. have you always found it difficult to live up to your father s reputation? yeah, i mean, i wanted to actually get, it s an awful thing to say, but to fight. in his days, it was nazis, in my day, it was marxists, and they harold wilson had chucked the brits out of aden yemen, as it now is. and they were coming in, having trained the muslims in odessa in the soviet union, to become marxists instead of muslims. and we were there, thanks to harold wilson sending us, to protect the muslims from the marxists, and so i was able to actuallyjoin an elite force, having been trained by the sas without fighting, i now had a command over an elite force, like what the book s all about, 60 of them, and could change their operations procedure by what i learned in the sas, mainly to move only by night, do nothing by day, and by shouting in the dark when we were under attack from machine guns, retreat, retreat! but advance. you were a tough guy in that sense and, as you said, you led men in very difficult circumstances, but you ve also written very honestly about the way in which you didn t always find it easy to be that tough guy. you ve written about school, how you hated being bullied, how you felt you had to keep your mouth shut when you were being beaten at eton, one of the leading public schools in the uk, because you, again, didn t want to let your father down. we ve had other guests in this studio talk about their upbringings as males, in very male societies, and they have talked and one in particular, a novelist from australia talked about a toxic sense of masculinity, and i just wonder whether you, reflecting on your life, can relate to that? yeah, you re talking about an all male background. i was brought up in south africa with a mother, a grandmother, lots of aunties, lots of sisters, no male whatsoever, so it was totally i was spoiled rotten. and then thrown into a pretty brutal boys‘ boarding school. yeah, i hate to call eton brutal. but in your day. yeah, and if i had a son, i d probably send him there. but in my day, it was very different. you were beaten and all this sort of stuff like you were at every other school, pretty much at the time. and, yes, i do remember not wanting to shout when being beaten, and that is a sort of indication, and i do remember people saying i looked pretty and i scowled to try to stop looking pretty. so i thought i d take up boxing in order to become aggressive appearing, and it sort of worked quite well. so here we are, let us be blunt, you were thrown out of the sas, britain s special forces, because of a complicated incident in which you and a friend acquired some explosive and went a bit freelance. no, i acquired the explosives, but you were being taught to blow up as much as possible by the sas with as little as possible, and at the end of every day, i was quite good at it, so i had a lot left over. i thought, pity to give it back to the queen, you know. put it in the boot. so two months later, the boot of my car was full up with explosives. so when this guy came up with an offer to protect castle combe in wiltshire, the prettiest village, voted as such, being ruined by 20th century fox. so we planned to blow up the dam, which they d made this lovely river into a big lake for filming, and, yes, i was thrown out of the sas for misuse. yes, let s be honest, you went a bit rogue. you undertook a freelance operation and they took a very dim view of it. but the point of the story, in a way, is that there you were, as you ve already said, pretty much penniless, newly married, now without a military career. you thought the way through this, to continue to travel, to have the adventures, but to not do it with the military, was to launch a series of expeditions. yes. luckily, my wife my late wife of 38 years she was into the same sort of thing. she d been a mountain guide up in the north of scotland and she was a very determined person, and she decided that we would have to be polar because of the british media at the time were only interested in polar stuff, and if you don t get media coverage, you don t get sponsorship which we depend upon. and, therefore, we would do the only polar expedition which had never been done by mankind, not even scott shackleton and co, which was to do the first ever journey around earth vertically, and she decided that s what we would do. which of course was a journey without any air flight, you were on foot across the poles. yeah. no flying one inch of the 52,000 miles. yes. no. i m noticing as we speak that the hand is evidence of some of the suffering that you have had in yourjourneys across the most frozen parts of our planet. yes. well, when we re selecting people for a small team, i mean, we ve had 8,000 applicants in the london area, we only want two people. so choice is important. one of the things i would never take is someone with previous frostbite because they become a liability on the expedition, so i wouldn t choose myself anymore after getting this sort of thing. just explain to me, because that, i think, is important to talk about, not because of the detail of how it happened, but how you responded to it. you basically had to amputate your own or you chose to amputate your own fingers and most of a thumb, didn t you? yeah, i mean, when it happened, i sent a telegram back to the uk because by then, my wife was into cattle, and all i got back from her was, typical ran, getting your fingers and all that, we are already short handed on the farm, so i didn t get much sympathy. got back to the uk, the surgeon wouldn t operate for five months, so i was walking around with mummified half fingers on the end, and any time you touched something, it s agony, so she said i was getting irritable, and can t wait five months to have a proper amputation. so we bought a black and decker fret saw, and she brought me cups of tea, and the physiotherapist in bristol said i d done a very good job. the surgeon was sort ofjealous, i think. which raises the question as you undertook more and more extreme adventures, crossing the poles on foot, deciding, much later in life, you were going to try to climb all seven highest peaks on the seven continents of this planet. you clearly were prepared to endure enormous amounts of physical suffering. yeah, i had a massive heart attack on everest within five hours of the summit ridge. and, therefore, i had to retreat, and three days later i got back down to the base camp through a very good sherpa and tried again five years later, but by which time i was becoming an 0ap and failed a second time because of passing too many bodies. 0n the third attempt, with a wonderful sherpa, passed the bit which has recently been in the news, where you get queues of people all you do is you do it at night when there s no people. so my sherpa took me up at night, got to the top, no bother, became the first 0ap to get to the top. how old were you when you got to the top of everest? 65, yeah. but because of being an 0ap, it made more money for multiple sclerosis. and these expeditions, one of the offshoots is we ve made £19 million for uk charities, and the more difficult they are, the more the public will give money to the charity. interesting you say the more difficult they are, the more money we can raise, the more we can do. isn t that, in the end, a rather dangerous philosophy? because it is tempting you to undertake adventures, and i don t know whether we call them adventures or explorations which actually. we call them expeditions. expeditions. but they are at the very boundary of what the human body can sustain, and i wonder whether at times you ve actually been irresponsible? no, it s a commercial problem. you need sponsorship, we never pay money to anybody or anything, so we need sponsorship. the sponsors will only give you sponsors if you re breaking world records, and they are only world records because the easier ones have been done. so your point about them being very hard, is what comes about. we don t attack at. we look at the previous people, normally norwegian, who have succeeded. where they ve failed on the expeditions that haven t yet been done by humans, where they ve failed, we discover what they did wrong, and normally, they took risks. so we actually try and avoid the risks, not confront them. isn t it the truth that you and explorers, expedition leaders such as you are running out of new places to go? running out of records to break? it depends which field you re in. if you re in polar, there are only two poles, and so you are quite right. if you happen to be one of the people who go for first ascents of difficult mountains, there are still many horrible north faces still to be climbed, so they ve got plenty to do. it s interesting you mention that, because i was reading a back copy of the new york times from 2008, which was all about the mission that some of the world s leading climbers undertook to k2 using a very difficult route, and i believe ii of them were killed in one of the worst international mountaineering incidents ever. and ijust wonder, with your experience, whether you fear that decision making is being compromised by this desire to push to ever more extreme limits. yes, it must be. because if you are wanting that s yourjob to go onto the next record, and because of what i ve just said, the records become harder and harder as your predecessors manage the last one. but in a sense, it s not a job, is it? and that s what i m driving at. that perhaps there is a selfishness that is going too far in some explorers‘ minds, because of course if they get into trouble, they are going to have to be rescued or at least rescue attempts will be made, enormous resources will be spent, and i think perhaps some people in the public are saying, what s the point? the foreign office stopped that happening. you cannot get permission to go down to antarctica in the winter when there s no rescue service. the rescue services want money by rescuing people so they like it. so, you re not ending up with threatening somebody as you have in the old days when that wasn t the case. the polar desk, if they re not going to sue me for libel, in whitehall, are there to stop you going there in the wintertime when there s no rescue service on the entire continent. every time i go in there with a new expedition, they say, christ, it s him again. just one more thought on the way in which you ve promoted and sold the expeditions. because, of course, as you very honestly say, i need the cash to make them happen. is there a tendency to exaggerate at times? i m just thinking now about one of your most remarkable expeditions, which was nothing to do the ice, it was the desert, and it was your mission to find the lost city of ubar, a sort of mythical city mentioned in the arabian nights. you were convinced it was somewhere in the empty quarter between saudi arabia and 0man. yeah, my wife was convinced. well, your wife well, she led many of your missions in terms of being the logistics commander. true. and you claimed you d found it in 1991. now, many archaeologists and experts that i ve read since say, well, ranulph found something very interesting, but it sure as anything wasn t the lost city of ubar. the sultan of oman will tell you that it was the lost city of ubar, the queen of sheba had somewhere in order to put the frankincense on the camels to send them to the market up injerusalem and that s a huge journey, and we knew, therefore, exactly where she would have to start loading the camels with frankincense, which cost three times the cost of gold. so, it was well worth doing. it must‘ve been where water came from the coasts towards the great desert of arabia, which they had to cross. so, we were looking at the very tip of where that water reached, and we reached a place called shisr, and that must have been and all the 0mani authorities agree, and the professor who found them, juris zarins, the best middle east archaeologist in the world, agreed that it must be ubar. so, what you re saying, quoting other jealous archaeologists, talking a load of rubbish. no, it is ubar. well, obviously you re not an archaeologist. but you re right, the 0manis, but they could have other reasons, including tourism to want to believe you were right. but in the end, it was an extraordinary expedition, whether it s ubar or not. yeah, it wasn t me deciding it was ubar, it was the best archaeologist in the world, juris zarins. but you sit before me as a man in maturity, in your 70s. and you have not stopped and your health problems have gotten worse. and ijust wonder whether you are struggling to put it bluntly with the realities of ageing, when your determination to keep going, keep the expeditions alive is as strong as ever. yeah, it is, in my head, as strong as ever. but i acknowledge the fact that people, when they get to sort of 73, it starts being alarming. things drop off and you have to start going for fast walks instead of runs on your daily yeah, that is unfortunately true. so, what we are doing is i am handing over the planning of what we do do to my colleagues, like doctor michael strahd, who s a top expedition doctor. he is taking over, right now, up in the arctic with the russian polar experts, looking to see how the ice is behaving, allowing new expeditions where there was ice and there s now water. but i just wonder whether you re. .. again, it s a question of responsibility. you have a teenage daughter. after your first wife died, you remarried. you re a father. and yet, even in, i believe, your 70s, you undertook one of the world s toughest sporting challenges the marathon des sables in the saharan desert. and that, for a human in good condition in their 20s or 30s, is almost unbearable. how on earth could you do that? well, you have to have a guide who pushes you really hard, more than your own mental process is pushing you. therefore, i went to this guy, rory coleman in cardiff, who took me on, looked to see what i was capable of if driven and did it successfully. so, we made the 2.3 million figure for marie curie that we were after from that particular thing that you re talking about. and when you go off on these extraordinary challenges now, in the last few years, what does your wife, what does your daughter say to you? well, they are a wonderful couple, wonderful wife, wonderful daughter. do they ever suggest to you, you are mad? are they fed up with it? i better, for the first time, not answer that question. 0h, no.i think you have to. although you ve got to remember, that back when i got born, i didn t have a father, i was brought up with just a mother. and my lovely wife is a fantastically good mum, so, you know, i wouldn t feel all that guilty. and you get to a certain age, you re going to die off anyway whether you do it out in the cold or run over by a taxi. a theme through our conversation has been motivation and tracing things back to your early life. it intrigued me that you said this just a few years ago in an interview with the financial times, you said, if i didn t do what i do, i do think i would get depressed. i think i would suffer depression, which i don t, thankfully. but i think i could. it s a sort of a background shadow, a sort of fear at the thought of not having a challenge. i think that is correct. and that s still something i would fear, yes. have you ever, at any point in your life, where either physically or for reasons of money, you ve not been able to do what you wanted to do? have you suffered depression? reasons of money, no. because we always know that if we re doing something really difficult, we will get the sponsorship. so, no to that one. in terms of this health thing you bring up, it is very unfortunate, and the only decent thing about it is it happens to everybody. and a thought, before we end, about the planet you, more than any other guest i ve ever had on hardtalk, have seen some of the most remote, wildest, most extreme parts of this planet of ours, i wonder whether you, in your travels today, really do feel that our planet is under pressure, is being compromised as never before? utterly. and i m totally behind the youth, including my daughter, who s been in trafalgar square, talking about that sort of thing. you mean, she s been part of extinction rebellion? the effect on animals, as well as humans and it is dreadful and it s very much there. and we in the arctic, let me say, it s more easy to see the difference in the arctic than the antarctic. we ve seen huge difference. in the 1970s, i was designing man hauled sledges, which were somewhat waterproof in case there was a canal. now, we are designing canoes, which can be hauled every now and again. so the amount of water in 20 years up there in this huge area of ice, which is shrinking, is enabling people to canoe to the pole instead of man haul to the pole. are you a supporter of extinction rebellion? whose core message is that it s no good just sort of mouthing the rhetoric of caring for the planet. the urgency of this means that we have to change how we live right now. i m totally in support of the rebellion as long as it doesn t put people off by doing violent things or becoming too like the gilets jaunes. as long as they complain and get the political people to have a real drive, which is difficult because of their business side, you know, very difficult indeed. but that s why it requires something like the extinction rebellion, of old and young, really trying to push the movement to get sensible carbon behaviour, which is against business. and a final thought are you done? you had to abandon your effort to climb all seven highest peaks on the seven continents because you just weren t well enough to do it, your back gave way. is this the end now for you? of that particular one, we ve done all the difficult ones, we got beaten by all the easy ones because of the old age factor. i mean, even hillary, a few years after he climbed everest, could no longer get above 18,000 feet. it s just. but my point is, no more expeditions? oh, no. you said no more expeditions of a particular type. you ve given yourself a get out clause. so, don t exaggerate. no. in terms of that particular one, we ve done the difficult ones over 29,000 feet. the easy ones at 16, 17, you just, at a certain age, i don t know what goes wrong with you, but you can no longer take altitude above a certain height. so, if it s not altitude anymore, what challenges can you undertake? well, you go back to horizontal, not vertical. have you got one in mind? well, all the polar stuff is horizontal, not vertical. what is it? i won t tell you, because our enemy, the norwegians, may get there first. laughs. sir ranulph fiennes, we will have to wait to find out then. but for now, thank you so much for coming on hardtalk. no, thank you. thank you very much. hello there. well, there s another fine and sunny day on tuesday. not quite as chilly but there was a bit more high cloud in the sky in scotland. then it was picked up by the setting sun in stirling, with a fine end to the day here. now, some of the high cloud is pushing southwards now, which means it could well be quite a nice sunrise across some eastern areas as we start off wednesday morning. other than that, it s going to be a chilly start to the day. you can see the skies for many, apart from the high cloud, staying clear. and that will allow temperatures to dip down, close to orjust below freezing in the countryside, to give some patches of frost up and down the country. an area of high pressure firmly with us then as we get on into wednesday, centred close to the uk it means there s going to be more fun and dry weather for the vast majority. remember though, there will be a little bit more in the way of high cloud in the sky, which at times will make the sunshine a little on the hazy side. also thicker cloud working in across the northern and western isles. it could bring an odd light shower and some cloudy weather seeping its way southwards across western scotland. just knocking the edge off the temperatures here. otherwise it s a warmer day. temperatures reaching a high of 18 degrees. now, on into thursday, we re going to see some colder air arriving to the far north of the uk but some warmer air arriving across england and wales. so thursday is a day of increasing contrasts. again, there will be some areas of high cloud around, which will make the sunshine rather hazy at times. we could see some showers arriving towards the south west of england late in the day, although there is some uncertainty about exactly how many of those are likely to make it down to the ground. and across the north east of scotland, that s where we ve got some cloudy weather, an odd spot of rain, and much cooler conditions but, otherwise, england and wales seeing temperatures into the low 20s. it will feel increasingly warm. for friday s forecast, there is a rather greater threat of seeing some showery bursts of rain, particularly across parts of southern england, perhaps the midlands and wales as well. turning increasingly heavy perhaps later on in the day but, away from that south west quarter, it s largely dry but still quite a bit of cloud in scotland and we ll start to see those temperatures cooling off around some of the north sea coasts of england as well. come inland, 17 degrees still not bad for birmingham and for london. now, the weekend, quite cloudy for england and wales. there is the prospect of seeing a little bit of rain for some of us. the driest weather probably in scotland, where it will stay dry and bright. this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. i m sally bundock. president trump suspends american funding for the world health organization over its handling of the coronavirus pandemic. the reality is that who failed to adequately obtain information in a timely and transparent fashion. more than one in five deaths in england and wales is linked to coronavirus. figures show 6,000 more people died than expected at the start of april. an election like no other: polling is under way in south korea. voters must wear masks and gloves and maintain social distancing.
now on bbc news hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i m stephen sackur. my guest today is an extremist of a very special kind. nothing to do with his political views, but recognition of a lifetime spent embracing physical challenges at the extreme limit of human endurance. sir ranulph fiennes has taken on and conquered the polar ice, the world s highest peaks and the most gruelling deserts. he s been described as one of the world s greatest living explorers. so, what is the motivation for this life of extreme adventure? sir ranulph fiennes, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. seems to me, your entire life, you have spent testing yourself, challenging yourself. why this preoccupation with tests? it doesn t come about in that particular way, it comes about because of being brought up in south africa, arriving in the uk, not getting a levels that s what it comes from, because that s not what i wanted to do, it s what my dad had done, commanding the royal scots‘ greatest tank regiment when he was killed in the second world war, and i wanted to command that same wonderful scottish regiment, but in his day, it didn t require a levels to get sandhurst. in my time, you did, and i couldn t, and therefore i had a second grade of cadet school and would never become colonel of the regiment, so ijoined the regiment but had only eight years of army service before you were thrown out. and so i didn t do what i wanted to do, and i did as long as i could in the army, then i found myself with no income, i married my wife, jenny, who had virtually no income, and so we thought we d do what i had tried to do in the army, which was to do expeditions with soldiers, but that was paid for by the taxpayer. doing it with just my wife, the new word was sponsorship. get everything for nothing. you ve already developed several themes there, and one thing that is important to your life and i think that s, in a way there s a sense of disappointment that you were not, despite the fact that you tried very hard to emulate your father. and it should be said that your father was killed in action in the second world war, so you never knew him. you were born after he died, but you clearly wanted to emulate his brilliant military career, but you were not able to. was that always, and is it now, a disappointment to you? it is the biggest disappointment. i wanted for 2h years to do that, and then found that i had failed and couldn t do it, so i had to turn to something else. you ve just written a book about elite special forces throughout the course of human history and you actually write about your dad s own regiment, the royal scots greys, a cavalry regiment which has been involved in some of the most famous battles that the uk military has seen. you did, for a while, serve in that force yourself. have you always found it difficult to live up to your father s reputation? yeah, i mean, i wanted to actually get, it s an awful thing to say, but to fight. in his days it was nazis, in my day it was marxists, and they harold wilson had chucked the brits out of aden yemen, as it now is. and they were coming in, having trained the muslims in odessa in the soviet union, to become marxists instead of muslims. and we were there, thanks to harold wilson sending us, to protect the muslims from the marxists, and so i was able to actuallyjoin an elite force, having been trained by the sas without fighting, i now had a command over an elite force, like what the book s all about, 60 of them, and could change their operations procedure by what i learned in the sas, mainly to move only by night, do nothing by day, and by shouting in the dark when we were under attack from machine guns, retreat, retreat! but advance. you were a tough guy in that sense and you led men in very difficult circumstances, but you ve also written very honestly about the way in which you didn t always find it easy to be that tough guy. you ve written about school, how you hated being bullied, how you felt you had to keep your mouth shut when you were being beaten at eton, one of the leading public schools in the uk, because you, again, didn t want to let your father down. we have had other guests in this studio talk about their upbringings as males, in very male societies, and they have talked and one in particular, a novelist from australia, talked about a toxic sense of masculinity, and i just wonder whether you, reflecting on your life, can relate to that? yeah, you re talking about an all male background. i was brought up in south africa with a mother, a grandmother, lots of aunties, lots of sisters, no male whatsoever, so it was totally i was spoiled rotten. and then thrown into a pretty brutal boys‘ boarding school. yeah, i hate to call eton brutal. but in your day. yeah, and if i had a son, i d probably send him there. but in my day, it was very different. you were beaten and all this sort of stuff like you were at every other school, pretty much at the time. and yes, i do remember not wanting to shout when being beaten, and that is a sort of indication, and i do remember people saying i looked pretty and i scowled to try to stop looking pretty. so i thought i d take up boxing in order to become aggressive appearing, and it sort of worked quite well. so here we are, let us be blunt, you were thrown out of the sas, britain s special forces, because of a complicated incident in which you and a friend acquired some explosive and went a bit freelance. no, i acquired the explosives, but you were being taught to blow up as much as possible by the sas with as little as possible, and at the end of every day i was quite good at it so i had a lot left over. i thought, pity to give it back to the queen, you know. put it in the boot. so two months later, the boot of my car was full up with explosives. so when this guy came up with an offer to protect castle combe in wiltshire, the prettiest village, voted as such, being ruined by 20th century fox. so we planned to blow up the dam, which they had made this lovely river into a big lake forfilming, and yes, i was thrown out of the sas for misuse. yes, let s be honest, you went a bit rogue. you undertook a freelance operation, and they took a very dim view of it. but the point of the story, in a way, is that there you were, pretty much penniless, newly married, now without a military career. you thought the way through this, to continue to travel, to have the adventures, but to not do it with the military, was to launch a series of expeditions. yes. luckily, my wife late wife of 38 years, she was into the same sort of thing. she d been a mountain guide up in the north of scotland. and she was a very determined person, and she decided that we would have to be polar because of the british media at the time were only interested in polar stuff, and if you don t get media coverage, you don t get sponsorship which we depend upon. and therefore, we would do the only polar expedition which had never been done by mankind, not even scott shackleton and co, which was to do the first ever journey around earth vertically, and she decided that s what we would do. which of course was a journey without any air flight, you were on foot across the poles. yeah. no flying one inch of the 52,000 miles. and noticing as we speak that the hand is evidence of some of the suffering that you have had in yourjourneys across the most frozen parts of our planet. yes. well, when we are selecting people for a small team, we ve had 8,000 applicants in the london area, we only want two people. so choice is important. one of the things i would never take is someone with previous frostbite because they become a liability on the expedition, so i wouldn t choose myself anymore after getting this sort of thing. just explain to me, because that, i think, is important to talk about, not because of the detail of how it happened, but how you responded to it. you basically had to amputate your own or you chose to amputate your own fingers and most of a thumb, didn t you? yeah, i mean, when it happened, i sent a telegram back to the uk because by then my wife was into cattle, and all i got back from her was, typical ran, getting your fingers and all that, we are already short handed on the farm, so i didn t get much sympathy. got back to the uk, the surgeon wouldn t operate for five months, so i was walking around with mummified half fingers on the end, and any time you touched something, it s agony, so she said i was getting irritable, and can t wait five months to have a proper amputation. so we bought a black and decker fret saw, and she brought me cups of tea, and the physiotherapist in bristol said i had done a very good job. the surgeon was sort ofjealous, i think. which raises the question, as you undertook more and more extreme adventures, crossing the poles on foot, deciding, much later in life, you were going to try to climb all seven highest peaks on the seven continents of this planet. you clearly were prepared to endure enormous amounts of physical suffering. yeah, i had a massive heart attack on everest within five hours of the summit ridge. and therefore i had to retreat, and three days later i got back down to the base camp through a very good sherpa and tried again five years later, but by which time i was becoming an 0ap and failed a second time because of passing too many bodies. 0n the third attempt, with a wonderful sherpa, passed the bit which has recently been in the news, where you get queues of people all you do is, you do it at night when there s no people. so my sherpa took me up at night, got to the top, no bother, became the first 0ap to get to the top. how old were you when you got to the top of everest? 65. but because of being an 0ap it made more money for multiple sclerosis. and these expeditions, one of the offshoots is we have made £19 million for uk charities, and the more difficult they are, the more the public will give money to the charity. interesting you say the more difficult they are, the more money we can raise, the more we can do. isn t that, in the end, a rather dangerous philosophy? because it is tempting you to undertake adventures, and i don t know whether we call them adventures or explorations which actually. we call them expeditions. expeditions. but they are at the very boundary of what the human body can sustain, and i wonder whether at times you have actually been irresponsible? no, it s a commercial problem. we need sponsorship, we never pay money to anybody or anything, so we need sponsorship. the sponsors will only give you sponsorship if you re breaking world records, and they are only world records because the easier ones have been done. so your point about them being very hard, is what comes about. we don t attack at. we look at the previous people, normally norwegian, who have succeeded. where they ve failed on the expeditions that haven t yet been done by humans, where they ve failed, we discover what they did wrong, and normally they took risks. so we try and actually avoid the risks, not confront them. isn t it the truth that explorers and expedition leaders such as you are running out of new places to go? running out of records to break? it depends which field you re in. if you re in polar, there are only two poles so you are quite right. if you happen to be one of the people who go for first ascents of difficult mountains, there are still many horrible north faces still to be climbed, so they ve got plenty to do. it s interesting you mention that, because i was reading a back copy of the new york times from 2008 which was all about the mission that some of the world s leading climbers undertook to k2 using a very difficult route, and i believe ii of them were killed in one of the worst international mountaineering incidents ever. and ijust wonder, with your experience, whether you fear that decision making is being compromised by this desire to push to ever more extreme limits. yes, it must be. because if you are wanting that is yourjob to go onto the next record, and because of what i ve just said, the records become harder and harder as your predecessors manage the last one. but in a sense, it s not a job, is it? and that s what i m driving at. perhaps there is a selfishness of going too far in some explorers‘ minds, because of course if they get into trouble, they are going to have to be rescued or at least rescue attempts will be made, enormous resources will be spent, and i think perhaps some people in the public are saying, what s the point? the foreign office stopped that happening. you cannot get permission to go down to antarctica in the winter when there s no rescue service. the rescue services want money by rescuing people so they like it. so, you re not ending up with threatening somebody as you have in the old days when that wasn t the case. the polar desk, if they re not going to sue me for libel, in whitehall, are there to stop you going there in the wintertime when there s no rescue service on the entire continent. every time i go in there with a new expedition, they say, christ, it s him again. just one more thought on the way in which you ve promoted and sold the expeditions. because, of course, as you very honestly say, i need the cash to make them happen. is there a tendency to exaggerate at times? i m just thinking now about one of your most remarkable expeditions, which was nothing to do the ice, it was the desert, and it was your mission to find the lost city of ubar, a sort of mythical city mentioned in the arabian nights. you were convinced it was somewhere in the empty quarter between saudi arabia and 0man. yeah, my wife was convinced. well, your wife well, she led many of your missions in terms of being the logistics commander. true. and you claimed you d found it in 1991. now, many archaeologists and experts that i ve read since say, well, ranulph found something very interesting, but it sure as anything wasn t the lost city of ubar. the sultan of oman will tell you that it was the lost city of ubar, the queen of sheba had somewhere in order to put the frankincense on the camels to send them to the market up injerusalem and that s a huge journey, and we knew, therefore, exactly where she would have to start loading the camels with frankincense, which cost three times the cost of gold. so, it was well worth doing. it must‘ve been where water came from the coasts towards the great desert of arabia, which they had to cross. so, we were looking at the very tip of where that water reached, and we reached a place called shisr, and that must have been and all the 0mani authorities agree, and the professor who found them, juris zarins, the best middle east archaeologist in the world, agreed that it must be ubar. so, what you re saying, quoting other jealous archaeologists, talking a load of rubbish. no, it is ubar. well, obviously you re not an archaeologist. but you re right, the 0manis, but they could have other reasons, including tourism to want to believe you were right. but in the end, it was an extraordinary expedition, whether it s ubar or not. yeah, it wasn t me deciding it was ubar, it was the best archaeologist in the world, juris zarins. but you sit before me as a man in maturity, in your 70s. and you have not stopped and your health problems have gotten worse. and ijust wonder whether you are struggling to put it bluntly with the realities of ageing, when your determination to keep going, keep the expeditions alive is as strong as ever. yeah, it is, in my head, as strong as ever. but i acknowledge the fact that people, when they get to sort of 73, it starts being alarming. things drop off and you have to start going for fast walks instead of runs on your daily yeah, that is unfortunately true. so, what we are doing is i am handing over the planning of what we do do to my colleagues, like doctor michael strahd, who s a top expedition doctor. he is taking over, right now, up in the arctic with the russian polar experts, looking to see how the ice is behaving, allowing new expeditions where there was ice and there s now water. but i just wonder whether you re. .. again, it s a question of responsibility. you have a teenage daughter. after your first wife died, you remarried. you re a father. and yet, even in, i believe, your 70s, you undertook one of the world s toughest sporting challenges the marathon des sables in the saharan desert. and that, for a human in good condition in their 20s or 30s, is almost unbearable. how on earth could you do that? well, you have to have a guide who pushes you really hard, more than your own mental process is pushing you. therefore, i went to this guy, rory coleman in cardiff, who took me on, looked to see what i was capable of if driven and did it successfully. so, we made the 2.3 million figure that we were after from that particular thing you re talking about. and when you go off on these extraordinary challenges now, in the last few years, what does your wife, what does your daughter say to you? well, they are a wonderful couple, wonderful wife, wonderful daughter. do they ever suggest to you, you are mad? are they fed up with it? i better, for the first time, not answer that question. 0h, no.i think you have to. although you ve got to remember, that back when i got born, i didn t have a father, i was brought up with just a mother. and my lovely wife is a fantastically good mum, so, you know, i wouldn t feel all that guilty. and you get to a certain age, you re going to die off anyway whether you do it out in the cold or run over by a taxi. a theme through our conversation has been motivation and tracing things back to your early life. it intrigued me that you said this just a few years ago in an interview with the financial times, you said, if i didn t do what i do, i do think i would get depressed. i think i would suffer depression, which i don t, thankfully. but i think i could. it s a sort of a background shadow, a sort of fear at the thought of not having a challenge. i think that is correct. and that s still something i would fear, yes. have you ever, at any point in your life, where either physically or for reasons of money, you ve not been able to do what you wanted to do? have you suffered depression? reasons of money, no. because we always know that if we are doing something really difficult, we will get the sponsorship. so, no to that one. in terms of this health thing you bring up, it is very unfortunate, and the only decent thing about it is it happens to everybody. and a thought, before we end, about the planet you, more than any other guest i ve ever had on hardtalk, have seen some of the most remote, wildest, most extreme parts of this planet of ours, i wonder whether you, in your travels today, really do feel that our planet is under pressure, is being compromised as never before? utterly. and i m totally behind the youth, including my daughter who has been in trafalgar square, talking about that sort of thing. you mean, she s been part of extinction rebellion? the effect on animals, as well as humans and it is dreadful and it s very much there. and we in the arctic, it s more easy to see the difference in the arctic than the antarctic. we ve seen huge difference. in the 1970s, i was designing man hauled sledges, which were somewhat waterproof in case there was a canal. now, we are designing canoes, which can be hauled every now and again. so the amount of water in 20 years up there in this huge area of ice, which is shrinking, is enabling people to canoe to the pole instead of travelling to the pole. are you a supporter of extinction rebellion? whose core message is that it s no good in mouthing the rhetoric of caring for the planet. the urgency of this means that we have to change how we live right now. i m totally in support of the rebellion as long as it doesn t put people off by doing violent things or becoming too like the gilets jaunes. as long as they complain and get the political people to have a real drive, which is difficult because of their business side, you know, very difficult indeed. but that s why it requires something like extinction rebellion, of old and young, really trying to push the movement to get sensible carbon behaviour, which is against business. and a final thought are you done? you had to abandon your effort to climb all seven highest peaks on the seven continents because you just weren t well enough to do it, your back gave way. is this the end now for you? of that particular one, we ve done all the difficult ones, we got beaten by all the easy ones because of the old age factor. i mean, even hillary, a few years after he climbed everest, could no longer get about 18,000 feet. it s just. but my point is, no more expeditions? oh, no. you said no more expeditions of a particular type. you ve given yourself a get out clause. so, don t exaggerate. no. in terms of that particular one, we ve done the difficult ones over 29,000 feet. the easy ones at 16, 17, you just, at a certain age, i don t know what goes wrong with you, but you can no longer take altitude above a certain height. so, if it s not altitude anymore, what challenges can you undertake? well, you go back to horizontal, not vertical. have you got one in mind? well, all the polar stuff is horizontal, not vertical. what is it? i won t tell you, because our enemy, the norwegians, may get there first. laughs sir ranulph fiennes, we will have to wait to find out then. but for now, thank you so much for coming on hardtalk. no, thank you. thank you very much. hello there. we saw a big cooldown in the weather over the easter period. sunday, the hottest day of the year so far, with temperatures up to 25 degrees celsius. well, that s more than hot enough to melt some of those chocolate easter eggs. by monday, though, temperatures certainly dropped away significantly for many of us. top of the drops manston in kent, with things 15 degrees celsius cooler on monday. now, temperatures will be picking up over the next few days, but that said, tuesday morning starting on a cold note for quite a few of us, with some patches of frost developing where the skies stay clear for any length of time. and that said, across parts of eastern england and also the south, there s probably going to be a bit too much in the way of breeze and/or cloud to see much in the way of frost. high pressure still in charge of our weather on tuesday. it is sinking a little bit further south. the winds not as strong, so it will feel a little bit warmer for many of us. for western scotland, though, westerly winds will bring a bit more cloud to the highlands, the western isles and quite cloudy weather as well for the northern isles of scotland. and although we start off cloudy in lincolnshire, east anglia, south east england, the east midlands, that cloud will tend to burn back toward some of those north sea coasts into the afternoon. it s going to feel a bit warmer, the winds a bit lighter, temperatures a couple of degrees higher with highs up to 1a degrees. 0n into wednesday s forecast, high pressure is with us once again. if anything, it s going to be warmer for just about everyone, with temperatures around three or four degrees higher. highs of 17 degrees or so for london, for birmingham, for newcastle and for aberdeen, but maybe 19 the top temperature around the cardiff area. temperature contrast then begins to increase on thursday. the air getting a bit warmer across england and wales, but a bit colder across parts of scotland and north east england. that colder air is arriving with a very weak cold front. so, it will bring a strip of cloud, maybe an odd light shower with it. most areas, though, will stay dry. but those temperatures certainly dropping away. highs only 9 degrees celsius in aberdeen, so starting to feel quite chilly once again here, whereas for england and wales, it s a warmer day with temperatures quite widely pushing on into the low 20s. now, it s been a very dry month so far, but that looks set to change as we head towards friday and indeed the weekend, as this area of low pressure drifts up from iberia. it s going to bring increasingly cloudy skies and the prospect of some rain. this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. i m sally bundock. donald trump angrily defends his handling of the coronavirus outbreak, which has now killed 22,000 americans. reporter: what did your administration do in february with the time that your travel ban bought you? a lot. what? a lot, and in fact, we ll give you a list, what we did in fact, part of it was up there. we did a lot. it wasn t clear your video has a gap. look, look. president macron announces he will begin to lift the french lockdown on may the 11th. the indian prime minister is expected to announce an extension to india s nationwide lockdown. we have a special report from mumbai, a virus hotspot.
people at home. a number of people i disadvantage in terms of being able to access what scheme that assumes you are working at a full income level hello and welcome to audiences in the uk before those things came into and around the world. we re covering all the latest place. on top of that we also coronavirus developments, both here and globally. had a number of environment in the last hour president trump has said he and where women are in vulnerable the democrats are closer situations and conditions, to agreeing a $450 million stimulus deal to help where there is violence, and a small businesses hit hard by the pandemic. possibility that has had a limit in terms of the types of mrtrump also setu ps limit in terms of the types of setups they have that allowed said he would use them to stay home safely and them to stay home safely and the defense production act the types of choices they have to compel one us facility had to make about what areas of to produce at least 20 million test swabs income they have available to per month. them and they need to be in an environment where they do not feel safe and make choices new york s governor, andrew cuomo, about income and departing from says he ll launch an aggressive antibody testing campaign next week, to see how many people have had the virus. their regular life, access to he also said the coronavirus outbreak there is resources . their regular life, access to resources. very interesting to ‘on the descent.‘ talk to about that is under covered the moment. thank you very much indeed. 40,000 people have now died of the virus in the us. here in the uk, the bbc and in the uk a delivery has learned of plans of vital protective for a possible treatment equipment for healthcare for covid 19 that involves workers which was delayed using the blood of those is now due to arrrive who have survived the illness. nhs blood and transplant has in the next 2a hours. started approaching people the government said who have recovered from it was working to ensure the virus, asking them to donate blood for a trial the shipment from turkey of convalescent plasma therapy. which includes 400,000 gowns would reach frontline 0ur science correspondent, rebecca morelle, has more. staff in the coming days. it s a race to save lives. we ll have more on that in a moment and in the hunt for new but first here s president treatments, blood may trump speaking a short time hold the key. america continues to make the nhs is reaching out to people who have recovered from covid 19. steady progress in our war against the virus. as of today their blood contains we have tested 4.18 million antibodies, which are produced by the immune system and destroy the virus. americans that that is a record the hope is to start a clinical trial to see if these anywhere in the world. the us antibodies can help patients has conducted more test on all of the following nations who are currently ill. scientists have welcomed combined, france, the united the move, but say the uk has been too slow. kingdom, south korea, japan, in terms of the uk, i think there are many aspects of this singapore, india, austria, pandemic we will look back on and say, i wonder why we didn t move australia, sweden and canada. a little bit faster? my hope would be that, the governor of new york says the state is continuing within two weeks, we would see to see a reduction in both the first patients in the uk covid 19 hospitalisations and deaths. treated with convalescent andew cuomo said that all indications are that plasma, having jumped over the infections have the various hurdles that need passed their high point. to bejumped in order to clear he added that the state would now begin aggressive the path to do this. antibody testing to identify the technology for this treatment is straightforward. someone who s had coronavirus needs to have fully recovered. people who ve had the virus. their blood is then collected and the red blood cells are removed. we are going to sample people what s left behind is called in this state, thousands of plasma, and this contains people in this state, across the antibodies they ve built up the state, to find out if they while fighting the virus. had the antibodies. that will tell us, for the first time, this is then given to what % of the population someone who has covid 19. the hope is that the donor s actually has had the antibodies could help the patient to attack the virus. 0ne person s plasma can be coronavirus and is now, at given to up to three least short term, immune to the other people. virus. i m joined now by our north america correspondent, peter bowes. in the united states, doctors donald trump talking about have been collecting plasma. testing and he says he has done injust three weeks, a nationwide project has been 4.8 million but he wants more. organised, involving 1,500 hospitals, and more than 600 patients have now been treated. he wants more and governors around the country want more and over the last couple of it s very early days, days the president has come in but doctors say they are not seeing any safety issues, and some patients seem for criticism from republican to be responding. we are going to learn more and democratic governors that say they simply do not have about what s in the plasma, the components, the antibody enough tests, specifically to levels and other factors that are there as the weeks go on but sometimes, move towards the first phase as as a physician, you just have outlined by the president to try and take a shot on goal himself, the first phase of when you have a shot. reopening their individual states and getting people out of their homes and we have been plasma therapy isn t new. hearing quite a different story it was used more than 100 years from the president and vice ago to treat spanish flu, president and what some of the governors are saying. we heard and more recently for ebola and sars, but it relies from the president, responded on people offering to donate. to that, saying many more tests in new york though, which has been the epicentre of the pandemic in the states, there s no shortage on the way, 4 million americans of volunteers. having been tested and also thank the vice president mike pence will be speaking on a people have been amazingly keen, coming out in droves. conference call on monday to we ve had hundreds and hundreds those governors around the of donors, and we ve been able country. it remains to be seen to collect over 1,000 units already. it s really heart warming whether they are satisfied with to see the people who have gone through the infection what the federal government is in various degrees and now 110w what the federal government is now saying about testing but their main concern is, clearly, as we move forward, this is the crucial issue and how can i now help others? also hearing what the governor of new york has been saying about the antibody test which plasma therapy won t be a magic bullet, and scientists still need to assess isa about the antibody test which is a step further to the how effective it is. diagnostic tests. antibody but, with no current treatments for covid 19, this could help until a vaccine is found. rebecca morelle, bbc news. tests which show what percentage of the new york some of the biggest names population is immune to the in music have joined forces in a globally televised concert to celebrate virus because they have had the healthcare workers. 0ur entertainment correspondent, colin paterson, was watching. disease are ready. a very # well, i saw her today political press conference yesterday from donald trump but at the reception today much friendlier especially towards the governor # a glass of wine of california. it was a in her hand. one world: together at home fascinating and almost bizarre press c0 nfe re nce has already been dubbed fascinating and almost bizarre press conference because a lot of the time was taken up by the the ‘living room live aid . the rolling stones filmed their parts individually on mobile phones. present reading positive press # was a footloose man coverage about himself, playing video clips, one by andew cuomo # so i went down to the demonstration. charlie watts clearly didn t praising the federal government and the help he has given new have a proper drum kit to hand. york and praising the governor # my fair shares of abuse. of california for the relationship that they have developed over the last few weeks and he has done this # who finds the money. before and generally they are there was a beatle via political rivals, they have argued about issues like broadband, sir paul mccartney. let s tell our leaders dealing with wildfires in that we need them to strengthen california but they do seem to the health care systems be on the same page as far as all around the world so that a crisis like this getting equipment out to california that the governor in this state requested and if the never happens again. president agreeing to that # i m still standing request so they do seem to be betterthan i everdid. and sir eltonjohn‘s piano had getting on. a very fascinating press c0 nfe re nce been wheeled into the garden. getting on. a very fascinating press conference from donald trump about the situation in # smile though your heart the us. thank you very much for is breaking # smile even though 110w. the latest official figures for the uk show it s aching. there were 596 deaths reported in hospitals the event was curated in the last 24 hour period. by lady gaga, who opened the show with a charlie that takes the overall number who ve died in hospitals to 16,060. chaplin classic. on sunday, the brititsh government was again # you ll get by. under pressure over the supply of personal protective equipment for healthcare staff, particularly the gowns used in intensive care. a delivery from turkey # i know delusion when i see that was due to arrive here on sunday, is now it in the mirror. expected on monday. while taylor swift showed off some very natty wallpaper. here s our health editor, hello and welcome to the show. the uk version was shown hugh pym. a vital consignment of masks on bbc one this evening. and other personal protective equipment arrives from china at prestwick airport for an event encouraging people to stay at home, many on social media questioned the decision to have three near glasgow this weekend. presenters in the studio. it s ready for distribution # you ve got to laugh a little to health and care workers around scotland at a time # cry a little. when the kit, known as ppe, is in short supply in the extra british performers different parts of the uk. included sir tom jones. some hospitals in england have warned they re down # your touch alone is enough to their last few days of supplies of gowns used to knock me off my feet. in intensive care. a plane load of equipment due and little mix, who chose in from turkey did not arrive a song with a title that no one as expected today. should obey touch. shortages of ppe have been reported by frontline staff for several weeks now. calling it the wi fi woodstock may be a bit of a stretch, but there won t be many more occasions when a beatle i raised the issue at the and the stones appear on the same bill. downing street media briefing. colin paterson, bbc can you comment on reports news, his living room. today that stocks of ppe were allowed to run down in the couple of years before that s it from us. stay tuned the pandemic, and why was more not done to get hold of more ppe in march and early to bbc news. february, including using hello. british companies? although monday gets off to a fairly chilly start, it is important to remember temperatures are going to rebound. garden time by the afternoon. that, although there may be elements of distribution quite pleasant with plenty problems across the uk of sunshine out there, at different times and although you ll need to take some shelter from a brisk easterly breeze. and there is a lot of fine, in different places, dry weather to come this week. this is a huge pull high pressure centred on services which we have close to scandinavia its influence being felt never seen before. across the british isles, blocking any weather systems from coming our way. and these are your starting and we have managed, actually, numbers for monday despite signalling many morning, then. potential shortfalls, to continue to supply going forward. ministers said they were doing most of us above freezing but there will be a frost again everything they could to bring across parts of highland scotland, but again, in ppe from across the globe, those temperatures are going to rebound. and while most are sunny, but labour said more should be there is a bit more cloud done to find supplies around the channel islands, in the uk. perhaps parts of cornwall, every mp s inbox, certainly my the isles of scilly, inbox, is awash with small a shower can t be ruled out but most places will stay dry. firms across the country saying they have tried to help the government with ppe, they ve tried to tell the government they can manufacture ppe, and they ve hit a brick wall this is a brisk easterly wind, they don t get anything back though, especially in england and wales, average speeds gust from the government whatsoever. 30 40 miles an hour and it s coming in from quite a chilly stephen was a community mental health nurse who d worked north sea at this time of year where temperatures for the nhs for 30 years. are around 7 9 degrees. so the air is cooled, he died with coronavirus closer to that temperature. and you ll notice that right last weekend. along north sea coasts if you are outside here, other members of the we are around 10 14 degrees, family were infected. whereas elsewhere, although his daughter made this there is still a breeze plea to the public. to notice, temperatures will be rising mid to high teens please stay at home and close to 20 celsius while you can. i mean, my dad couldn t, in the warm spots here. now, as we go on through monday and he lost his life. night, that breeze stays with us, we are mainly clear, that will prevent much so, if you can, of the uk from seeing i know it s horrible, a frost again. no one wants to be a frost is possible stuck at home 24 hours across parts of scotland. of the day every day, and the rain and showers but it is what we need to do right now, mayjust pep up towards the channel islands, and if it saves one parts of cornwall, south devon life by staying in the house, and into to the isles then it s absolutely worth it. of scilly. with social distancing in force and empty streets, speculation and debate about when the lockdown uncertainty about who gets will be eased intensifies. what but the potential is there for something wet, there have been reports today anyway, overnight into first that some schools might reopen thing on tuesday. in the middle of may. and then on tuesday, it s for most of us another day of sunshine with an easterly wind and those temperatures i want nothing more contrasting between the north sea coasts and those elsewhere that could see temperatures than to see schools back. rising close to 20 celsius. get them back to normal, taking a look at the big make sure that children picture on wednesday to thursday. are sat around, the isobars open up, learning and the winds turn lighter and it experiencing the joy of being at school. looks to be turning warmer as well. in fact, by thursday, some but i can t give you a date. spots will be in the mid 20s. and at the new temporary friday into the weekend, nightingale hospital temperatures start to come down a few degrees. in london s docklands, more cloud around, there their first patient to be is a chance of seeing successfully treated some showers. but until then, it s another for covid 19 was moved to another hospital dry april week to come to continue his recovery. applause with plenty of sunshine a brisk easterly breeze, especially along there was applause from the staff who volunteered north sea coasts. to move to work there. hugh pym, bbc news. while much of the global death toll has come from western nations, concern is growing about the rise of cases elsewhere. developing nations, with massive urban populations, and under resourced health systems could be particularly vulnerable. we ll be taking the view fromjapan, india, south africa, and brazil. starting with rupert wingfield hayes injapan, a developed nation which had thought it had dealt with the virus but is now facing a second wave. japan now looks like it is at the beginning of a major outbreak where you ve seen more than 10,000 reported cases growing at about 500 a day. the worst hit area is here in tokyo where it looks like the healthcare system is starting to look like it may be overwhelmed. we have seen reports in recent days of people being turned away from multiple hospitals in the city. the whole of japan is now under a state of emergency, but that is not the sort of lockdown you are seeing in the uk, and japan, the government has not done widespread testing. despite that, it looked like japan might avoid the worst of the pandemic, but it now looks like the lack of tough action to suppress the covid 19 virus looks like it may have a serious price. india has more than 17,000 covid 19 cases so far, around 550 people have died of the infection. we are in our fourth week of a lockdown here, which is set to go on until may 3 at least. farming, fishing, construction in rural, not very populated areas are set to resume tomorrow because of the economic distress that the shutdown is causing. doctors have told me that they do believe the measures have reduced the burden on hospitals to some extent, but they also say they can t really assess the scale of the outbreak in the country because it is not testing enough, largely due to a shortage of testing kits. this is bbc news. the headlines: president trump has said more south africa has played a bit than four million americans have been tested of a blinder so far, for the coronavirus, it s managed to hold down and many more testing kits are being made available. the rate of infection the governor of new york says he ll just 54 deaths in total launch an aggressive antibody testing campaign next week, confirmed so far, and like many to see how many people other governments around have had the virus. the continent, people are trying to act early and the british government says a shipment of 84 tonnes aggressively against the virus. of personal protective equipment, which should already have arrived from turkey, had been delayed but still, there is a feeling till later on monday. here that the moment more than 16,000 people of reckoning is coming soon, have now died in the uk from coronavirus related conditions. perhaps in the next few weeks, in other news: and there is a real concern police in canada say a man has shot dead at least 13 people that fragile health systems in many poorer countries in a rural community in nova scotia. will be overwhelmed. reports say one police officer was killed, and that the 51 year old but i think the bigger concern suspect is also dead, right now is economic, the feeling that hundreds of millions of livelihoods are already being directly threatened. so a real fear here of hunger, of hardship and possibly even of unrest. stay with us on bbc news, still to come: ..and ringing out from their homes how some of music s biggest names have celebrated healthcare workers around the world. the stars and stripes at half mast outside columbine high. the school sealed off, the bodies of the dead still inside. i never thought that they would actually go through with it. one of the most successful singer songwriters of all time, the american pop star prince has died at the age of 57. ijust couldn t believe it, i can t believe it. for millions of americans, the death of richard nixon in a new york hospital has meant conflicting emotions. a national day of mourning next wednesday sitting somehow uneasily with the abiding memories of the shame of watergate. mission control: and lift-off of the space shuttle discovery with the hubble space telescope, our window on the universe. this is bbc news, the latest headlines: president trump has said more than four million americans have been tested for the coronavirus and many more testing kits are being made available. as the uk hospital death toll passes 16,000, government says it s doing all it can to get as much personal protective equipment for healthworkers as possible. in other news, at least 13 people have been killed by a gunman in the canadian province of nova scotia. the canadian prime minister, justin trudeau, described it as a terrible situation and nova scotia premier stephen mcneil told reporters this is one of the most senseless acts of violence in our province s history. matt graveling reports. dressed as a police officer, he posed as a protector, even driving around in a marked car. but instead, 51 year old gabriel wortman took a gun, shot and killed at least ten people, including a real police officer. sirens wail the attack in nova scotia lasted for 12 hours. it began on saturday night with police alerted to an incident involving firearms in the rural town of portapique. police posted the gunman‘s locations online and said he may be wearing a royal canadian mounted police uniform despite not being employed by the service. residents were advised to lock themselves indoors. the canadian prime minister began his regular briefing on coronavirus by focusing on the shooting. before we get started, i want to touch briefly on the unfolding events in portapique, nova scotia. i know we ve all been watching this on the news. my hearts go out to everyone affected in what is a terrible situation. i want to thank the police for their hard work and people for cooperating with authorities. police said the suspect was driving what appeared to be a police car before changing to another vehicle. on twitter, they notified people of the car s registration plate. police later informed people of the 12 hour rampage ended in a car chase on sunday and that the attacker the gunman shot people across several locations in nova scotia, which means authorities are still trying to establish the final death toll. matt graveling, bbc news. more now on the coronavirus. the united nations has already warned that women are being particularly hard hit economically and socially by the current covid 19 outbreak, and says the long term effects of the outbreak are likely to be much worse for them. 0ther epidemics like ebola, sars and bird flu have also disproportionately affected women in the past, but during this pandemic, worldwide research is being done for the very first time to measure the impact. let s talk to one of the academics involved in the research, professor sarah davies from griffith university, and she joins us from brisbane. sarah, thanks for coming on. talk us through the reasons why women and girls are being ha rd est women and girls are being hardest hit by this virus. thank you for allowing me to speak. there are three key areas we can identify where vulnerability is particularly harmful for women vulnerability is particularly harmfulfor women in this pandemic, women and girls, the first is economic, the second is physical security and the third is the impact on existing health inequalities. how should states, governments and policymakers change what they do to account for those reasons? one of the things we re looking at in our research at the moment is thinking about preparedness firstly. in a large number of oui’ firstly. in a large number of our countries, we have significant wage gaps between women and men and there is poverty gaps as well in terms of economic inequity and there
in the number of people attending accident and emergency departments in england. some health charities fear that people with serious conditions such as heart attacks or stroke are avoiding or delaying going to a&e for fear of coming into contact with coronavirus. our health correspondent dominic hughes has more. accident and emergency departments are normally the busy front door to your local hospital. but the coronavirus pandemic is changing all that. fears of contracting covid 19 seems to be keeping people away. that s what stopped the father of two year old myra here from north london who had to go back to a&e to have a cut on my head redressed. do we want to be anywhere near a hospital at the moment? we had to do it the day before if you can avoid it, then we should, so after thinking long and hard about it and weighing up if the nhs have enough on their plate already, we decided to not go and we sought help elsewhere. the latest figures from public health england cover more than eight major a&e departments. in the second week of april last year, more than hundred and 51,000 people attended emergency departments in english in england, but this year 70,000, reduction of more than half. 0n the face of it, it sounds like it could be good news for hard pressed emergency departments in the coronavirus crisis has put the whole service under intense pressure, but health charities fear some people are reluctant to visit hospitals when they should. people are acutely aware that the nhs is under significant strain and they do not want to be a bother, but also, people are worried about being in a hospital setting because they don t want to contract coronavirus. some conditions, heart attacks or strokes, for example, are time critical. the faster they are treated, the better the outcome, so any delay can have serious consequences. if you were to have a serious heart attack and not seek help and not have the right procedure very quickly, then you are at a much higher risk of developing serious problems with your heart following the attack such as heart failure or breathing problems. the message from doctors is clear, even in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic, the nhs is open and ready to treat other medical emergencies. delaying treatment could threaten your life. dominic hughes, bbc news. now on bbc news the secret world of japanese bicycle racing with sir chris hoy. sir chris hoy has powered to victory to pick up his sixth olympic gold. britain s most successful ever olympian. two of my 0lympic titles were in the keirin, a unique cycling race that began here injapan. and hoy has already ignited the burners. there we go. gold medal performance. 15 years ago i came here to study with and race alongsidejapanese riders and now with the olympics on the horizon, i am back to once again experience this unique sporting passion. i am here in matsudo on the outskirts of tokyo. the last time i was here was in 2005 as a keirin rider myself. but today i am here as a fan. keirin races featured in the olympics for two decades and involves six riders following a pacing motorbike around the track. before a hectic sprint for the line in the closing three laps. the japanese keirin has been a national obsession for almost 80 years. the rules and traditions of the sport reflect japanese culture like nothing else in the world. the chap over there in the purple and orange, that is the pacing rider. so if you have watched international keirin before, that s the guy in the motorbike but here you have a human powered racer. and he is actually a keirin racer himself. he will do a certain number of days a year as the pace rider. and he will take itjust as seriously as he does in his racing. it reflects japanese culture, everybody takes the job very seriously. they do it to the best of their ability, they do it in the way they are told to do it. there we go. now it can be quite lucrative for riders, it is a profession. the top riders can earn in excess of £1 million a yearjust through prize money alone. and even the guys who are down in the first and second races who could be 55, even 60 years of age, they could be earning around 50 or £60,000 a year. it s weird, because you look around and there s like nobody in the stands. there are a few folk around here, a few folk behind me, but really it is almost an empty velodrome and yet, all around the country, betting offices, cafes and bars, there are thousands of people watching that one race there. it has a huge following, but it s weird because there s nobody here in the stands. it s an amazing stadium and yet it s almost empty. it is big business, the japanese keirin. the betting market is around £10 billion a year which is quite staggering. every year they have one big race, the grand prix, and on that single day there is more money bet than on the entire british horse racing season. 0h! well, this is something i never knew existed. it is a shrine, you can come and say a few prayers to the gods of money apparently to give you some good fortune and hopefully win some of the bets on the races. for the competitors, it s not so much about luck, more about dedication and tradition. all of japan s home grown riders are obliged to complete a year s study at the keirin school in izu, 200 kilometres from tokyo. even invited international cyclists like me have to attend before we can compete. i was here in 2005, three years before my first 0lympic keirin gold. standing in the shadow of the olympic velodrome, the school is part military academy, part training camp, a place of tradition that focuses on respect, self control and honesty, along with the knowledge necessary for a professional keirin rider. this is where i stayed in 2005 and by the looks of it, nothing has changed. i don t know if they ve even put a lick of paint on it since i was here. quite excited to go inside, go see my old room. konnichiwa. i can t believe just how similar everything looks, nothing seems to have changed at all. my room is right at the end, the last door. yes. even the smell brings back memories. it is really familiar. there it is. yeah, it s the same. new carpet. same old unit. i m pretty sure i stuck a sticker up in there when i was here. is it possible to stand on here? yes. we used to get these little stickers, all the keirin riders got one given to them. and i m sure i stuck it up here. i don t know if it. there it is! look at that. check it out. look. thanks very much, that was incredible. i didn t expect to see that up there. arigato. trip down memory lane, thank you. cheers. that s it, bathroom up here. and in truejapanese style, everything is done together as a team, even bathing. here we go, pretty cool. fancya dip? pick up your little stool, and you pick up your bucket and this is the shower. you pop it down in front of your mirror. you ve got your shampoo and shower gel, you shower yourself, clean yourself and then you have a nice little soak in the tub with that amazing view. you can actually see fuji on a clear day from here. it s really quiet in here today, the students actually arrive back later on this afternoon. they have been away for their summer holidays and they come in, 180 students will be staying here and this is where the eat, in the restaurant. this way, sorry. in here. again, nothing has changed. exactly how i remember it. i remember the spanish rider, he got a jamon, a whole big leg of ham from spain sent over and sat in the corner there, he was cutting pieces off each day to give him a taste of home. i remember the first time i came here for breakfast, the first morning. that was quite a shock. no bran flakes, that s for sure. it s not just the food that is a bit of a culture shock. here at the keirin school, all the riders study the laws, tactics and traditions of the sport. cycling exams were not something i had ever experienced in britain. i can t really talkjust now because they are in the middle ofan exam. i can sit and watch and observe them in silence. it is not only the riders minds being tested though. this machine tests their peak power output. it might not look high tech but the japanese are meticulous in their methods. of course i had to have another go. can you bring the bars a little bit up, please? 0k. i haven t warmed up here, better not pull a hammy. ready? three, two, one. go. 0h! oh, dear. i m not making a comeback. it s official. thank you. before. this is cool though. you have the exact printout from my test 1a years ago, yeah. see how it goes. and i managed to hang onto the 30 seconds. back in the old days. mind you, peak speed 67, 64, only 2.8 off my peak speed from last time so maybe i am making a comeback actually. i ve changed my mind. times do change, even here where tradition is so important. back in 2005, when i was here this was a male only sport but thankfully that s one tradition they have left behind. in 2012 you introduced the women s keirin to the keirin school, how has that gone? has the women s keirin attracted a new audience to keirin? arigato, thank you. there we go. in addition to the home grown riders tasked with entertaining the japanese cycling fans, is a small group of international riders. these cyclists, selected from the world s best, compete in the races and attend the keirin school. for the first time in ten years there is a british man in theirgroup. youngster joe truman. he is in his second season here. when did you first find out about the japanese keirin and what was it about it that made you want to come out here? yeah, so i think i ve been a bit obsessed with japanese keirin since i started track sprinting really when i was about 15. since then i have been obsessed with the culture and i have always had a bit of an affinity with japan i think and when the ticket came for me to have the opportunity to come here, i grasped it. came out. first year took a little bit of getting used to, a bit of a culture shock at the start, chopsticks, the way you eat food and taking your shoes off. yeah, i think this year i ve really adjusted well and i love it. i came out here when i was 29 and i kind of struggled a little bit with the lack of team support. you are very much an individual. how do you deal with that when you went in and you didn t have a coach to discuss tactics? it was just you on your own with eight other riders who didn t speak the same language as you. it was a little bit of a shock to start with because i came straight from the commonwealth games in brisbane, straight to here and you went from a big team environment straight into a small apartment in izu on my own. it was a bit of a sudden change but i think you ve got to embrace it really. i took a lot of advice from the older riders. for me, the first race ijust enjoyed it, getting to know the culture and the traditions. then later on in the race, when bigger races came, i could then perform better. being a rider here is rewarding but demanding. you only need to look at the training hill. riders are expected to race up the slope which is as steep as any i have experienced in the uk. i couldn t resist revisiting it. this is a pretty unusual training venue. yes, it is certainly unique to the japan keirin school. give it a little race up there, see how it goes. start gate here, lanes all the way to the bottom of the hill, it s one in three, isn t it? i m not sure exactly, i think 40% of it. takes the speed straightaway. have you done it before? never all the way up, halfway, yeah. we ll see how it goes. ready? i ll do the call. five, four, three. go! you got me! it s good training. you can see why they ve got it, can t you? you never really get the cadence high enough to sit on it. you have to keep going. geez. i m definitely not the toughest competition joe has faced this season. a sterner test awaited him in the final race of the year. this is all right, isn t it? as commutes go, this is pretty cool. i spend a lot of time here, it s not uncomfy, there s a lot of space. very fast, it s a nice way to travel. how do you get your bikes from place to place? track to track, we just send it via mail. it usually takes two days to arrive so we go track to track to track. we never really see our bikes, they are always in transport or out on the road. today is inspection day. getting our bikes checked, our helmet checked, our shoes and everything, declaring our tactics for the day one race. after every race we pack into this box, ship it straightaway to the next race. it usually comes pretty deconstructed. we spend 20 minutes or so setting up. we have to do this all ourselves, unlike international, the onus is on us to do this so you get to know a bit more mechanical personally. before i didn t even know how to remove a crank so now i ve learnt how to do that. the bikes are all built to a very strict specification and you look at that and think that s just a steel bike from back in the 1980s, and really nothing has changed. they have made sure the wheels, the tires, the gearing system, everything is exactly the same for everybody. they want to keep it as equal and fair as possible for everybody. there are some things that literally haven t changed since the 19505. everyone has to get checked by four different stations, one for tyres, one for chain, cranks, everything, everything gets checked. it is an important part of it because the betters put a lot of money on us so we don t want a bad result because of equipment. they put a huge amount of emphasis on it. keirin is a fiercely competitive tactical battle in which riders can end up in a heap on the tarmac. unique to the japanese keirin all riders must declare their tactics in advance of the race. this is the armour i wear. whenever i am doing a race and they say beforehand, i wear this armour. it is a bit of kevlar in case i crash. i always find you could get a nasty block. there always apologise for it afterwards. i had some blocks, i think after the third one. i was in the zone, i was trying to get past him. respect is such a big part. i remember one race i let out and i won the race, the guy got second, he was delighted, he came over with a pair of grips. they love giving presents as well. i have got a box full of presents. i have got gloves, tyres get reused all the time. you win the race, you hand out water to your competitors to say thank you for making a good race to yourself. some pretty fancy footwear behind me here. they are basically warm up clogs. they are a bizarre unique thing to the japanese keirin. i am not actually sure what they do but they make you look taller, maybe that gives you a bit of confidence, who knows? you can see on the back ofjoe s jersey, the twisted bunched up bits, the elastic band they used to pull in the material and make it more aerodynamic. it is up to you how much you tuck them in and make them as tight as possible. the contrast between the old and the new. we have got the sign from the 2005 international japanese keirin, there is myself there and all the boys that came with us. over an intense weekend of racing riders are allowed any contact with the outside world. they surrender their mobile phones and sleep in a simple traditional dormitory attached to the stadium. it all makes for a pressurised atmosphere. just in the distance, you can see a doorway into a room. that is the holding area before you go to your race, it looks a bit like a doctor s waiting surgery. there is brown leather seats which i think are probably the same ones from 15 years ago. it doesn t look like it has changed. you go in there, sit on the appropriate seat based on your race number and there is no one else in there with you. no coach or support team, no one to give advice or talk to you. no one speaks english. some of the guys will sit in there and glare at you, some will talk to you injapanese, some talk to themselves, some are shouting, it is one of the most intimidating environments i have been in in a racing context. it is unlike anything i have ever been to. what was your initial thought when you went into the holding room? i rememberfeeling it was quite an intimidating environment and not knowing what was going on. the first race i was in was a final and the guy had two smelling salt bottles up his nose, with a bandanna, staring at me straight in the eyes, psyching me out. he did give me a big block in the race as well, maybe psyching himself up as well. blow a kiss. i m going to give you a one minute warning, you get called and everyone stands up. you start shouting, sometimes they pick up salt and throw it on their bikes to bless their bikes and give it good luck. it is just a unique experience, there is nowhere else in the world of racing that is like japan. as the nerve build in the rider s room, anticipation grows in the stadium. fans all around will be watching and placing bets. keirin is only one of four sports in which it is legal to bet injapan. it is big business and one that punters take very seriously. here is a list of the runners and riders of today s race. get the chance to see what those odds are. they come up here and they study the form then the guy at the front who is a former keirin professional, he will explain the tactics to the riders, what they will be, you have to declare in the race before you start. they are taking it all in, writing information, they are trying to form the most educated guess as possible to try and place their bet on the guy they think is going to win based on science and based on their previous form. another nice feature coming into matsudo is a night race. lights come on, bit of atmosphere. it is getting quite busy. there is a beer festival behind so some fans are getting more into it, shall we say. i remember losing a few of races here and the crowd tell you to go home. plus some other words which they learnt in english, which i can t repeat. officials are sweeping up after the crash in the previous race and it is a reminder ofjust a physical and dangerous the sport can be. joe is about to come out for the final, the nerves are about to be felt in the stadium. so much build up. this is the moment they are waiting for. joe was joined in the final by fellow international rider denis dmitriev. the russian, wearing number seven, had declared his tactics would be to lead once the pace had dropped out. joe would try to grab a second wheel and head straight for the win from there. the red and the purple are the risks, and the guys in the white and the blue will be sweeping and blocking. as soon as the pacer comes off, i think denis is going to try and take the front. the guy in green is going to try and outright to take the front. he is so much stronger. that is it. oh no! go on,joe! he is all right, he is all right. perfect, this is perfect. this is a long lead out. go on,joe! he is going to have to go soon. perfect. this is perfect. yes! beautiful. awesome. yes! that was an absolutely textbook race. that was perfect. when he launched his sprint, you could see the gap at the end he had there. that was phenomenal. keirin is a sport which embodies the traditions ofjapan and some of its quirks. a unique sporting events the japanese have given the cycling world. i only came second so i never got to see this. it is quite a bizarre ceremony. japan s passionate cycling fans have to wait another year until they can pack the big velodrome, but one thing is for certain, when the keirin riders finally push out the blocks, it is going to be one of the most exciting places at the olympics. he has got long legs, i tell you. it s a nice bike this, actually. well done, mate. great performance, top job. happy with that. hello once again. while some areas saw a really glorious end to thursday, the cloud began to fill in across some parts of the british isles, especially in the south. signs of a change, to the extent that there is in the forecast a little bit of rain on the way for some areas. and, for many of you, that will be really quite welcome after a really dry start to april. now, a waft of cloud was all that we really got from this major area of low pressure, throwing belts of weather ever further towards the north. but this is the direction that we re looking in over the next few days to see these areas of cloud, bringing perhaps a little bit more in the way of significant rainfall to some as we get through friday, and indeed on into the weekend. first signs of that change really getting into the south western counties of england quite early on friday morning. elsewhere, it s a dry enough and a fine enough start. you ll see that this rain around about lunchtime and the early afternoon gets into the south and central parts of wales, but it struggles to get north of the m4 corridor. and elsewhere, away from the north eastern shores of england, where again there s a fair amount of cloud and an onshore breeze, and still that onshore breeze into the eastern side of scotland, well, there s dry and bright weather to be had to western scotland, northern ireland and the north west of england. and here, we ll see the temperatures come into the teens. 0n the east coast, though, eight or nine degrees only. through the course of friday evening, that rain again begins to make a little bit of progress into the northern parts of wales. there are odd heavier, thundery bursts perhaps just trying to get across the channel into the southern counties of england. saturday not a great deal of difference, just that we ll see further pulses of showery rain just trying to work their way that little bit further north. so it s saturday where we may well see the odd showery burst of rain just trying to get into the north of england, maybe flirting with northern ireland, but the bulk will be found across the midlands and towards wales as well. not a great deal changing in the overall setup, so again the temperatures on the east coast around about eight or nine degrees. but inland, we ll be looking at somewhere comfortably into the teens. come sunday, it looks as though we re in for essentially a dry day. perhaps more cloud just coming up through the irish sea into northern ireland, with the chance of a burst of rain here, but elsewhere it s dry and fine. and by this stage, at last, at last, we can talk about double figure temperatures on the east coast. this is bbc news. welcome if you re watching here in the uk, on pbs in america or around the globe. i m simon pusey. our top stories: president trump sets out his plan to reopen the american economy. our team of experts now agrees we can begin the next front in our war, which we re calling opening up america again. the lockdown in the uk is extended by at least three more weeks, but we re told there is light at the end of the tunnel. in brazil, president bolsonaro fires his health minister over calls for a national anti virus lockdown. plus, the 99 year old british army veteran who s completed a charity walk in his garden, raising millions for health service workers.
same time. that s why we have built into the plan surveillance mechanisms to look for the respiratory illnesses and do the appropriate testing at that time. that s going to be a critical part of the reopening plan. harris: you re watching outnumbered. i m harris faulkner. here today, melissa francis. emily compagno, attorney at fox news contributor. jessica tarlov, fox news contributor. joining us today, dr. marc siegel, professor of medicine at nyu langone medical center and fox news contributor. dr. siegel is outnumbered, as we say come in the center box. good to see if ready today. see to mike doc, will come to first. let s talk about the second wave that will be coming, and what cdc director redfield is saying, and others. what is your take on it? dr. siegel: actually, harris, a spoke to dr. redfield about this last week. the exact thing. i have a different take. here s what i think i think he expects, and he told me this, do have extensive testing in place by the fall. i m talking about rapid testing and antibody testing. he thinks that will help us to control it by then. we ll have the exact science we need. secondly, the good side of this is he feels and dr. fauci has told me the same thing they feel this virus is starting to look seasonal. that would mean that dr. redfield expects it to flatten out by the summer, by june, by the end of may, june. that s also good news. then i said to him, what about australia, what about the southern hemisphere? if you think this is seasonal, doesn t what s happening in australia now predict what might happen here i in the fall? and he said i was lee so. same for dr. fauci. but let me tell you the good news. the good news is very premature, here. it s the equivalent of september now in australia, and we are seeing flat cases. we are seeing 6600 cases so far. it is not spiking yet. all eyes are on the southern hemisphere right now to see what we might be facing here in the fall. harris: i m going to ask our team to pop up this on the screen for us to take a look at and get a reaction to this, doc siegel. this says more people are dying from coronavirus than just one month then during the entire 2018-2019 season of influenza. u.s. confirmed deaths, march 20th-april 20th, 42,000 from coronavirus, seasonal flu, 2018-2019 season, 34,200. what s your take on that? dr. siegel: this, harris, is deeply disturbing. i think this shows a couple of things. first of all, there s way more cases out there undiagnosed then we realize. a symptomatic cases. that s why we see so many cases of severe illness. second, our health care system was not ready for this. we got overwhelmed by the suddenness of this. all the secondary effects of this virus, the way it impacts the lungs, the immunity problems, where you get a hyper immune response, blood clots we are seeing, multiple organs affected, heart, kidneys, lungs, brain, all of this is overwhelmed our health care system. of course, the preexisting conditions, the way it affects the elderly, the obese, people with diabetes and heart disease. it s very devastating virus in those high-risk groups. that s what we weren t ready for. it clearly has come over us very rapidly, and that s why we ve kind of had such a severe public health response. harris: all right. well, as things pop this hour, of course we lean on you heavily, doc siegel. glad you re along with us. i want to move to this, the executive order which president trump says he plans to sign today would temporarily suspend immigration to the united states for at least 60 days to make sure jobless americans do not get left behind. watch. millions of americans sacrifice their jobs in order to battle the virus and save the lives of our fellow citizens. by pausing immigration we will help unemployed americans first in line for jobs, as america reopens. so important. it would be wrong and unjust for americans laid off by the virus to be replaced with new immigrant labor flown in from abroad. harris: emily, what s your take on this? emily: well, title 42 of the u.s. code affords the president the ability to halt immigration because of public health. i want to point out a recent supreme court decision that upheld the so-called travel ban, which i venture to say sort of gave him unlimited authority in regard to immigration. i think the important thing for viewers to note is that this is a lot more restrictive than the initial comments about this executive order. the actual order is a mere 60 day pause on those seeking permanent residence in the united states. it s those seeking green cards. it has note effect on seasonal workers, seasonal farmworkers, for example. those entering the country on a temporary basis. frankly, it is sound authority but it s also sound rationale, that was 22 million americans unemployed and with us in the middle of a pandemic, and we are trying to cope and mitigate these, this is a sound executive orders. if there are issues with it, it ll play out in the courts. for now, i don t see a problem. harris: all right. very interesting. you know, melissa, when we were talking about this coming today and today is potentially the day the president could send this executive order we were talking yesterday about how this has been one of those things that has really marked or been his signature from the campaign all the way through his presidency. speech you know, it s true. i read it a little differently. to me, it has more to do with this idea that we can t have open borders in this very liberal social welfare program. right now, we are spending an alarming amount of money that is, in most cases, necessary to be spent in order to prop up municipalities, state governments, cities. we have 22 million people on unemployment. not that these folks would threaten their jobs if they came into the country, but they would show up and potentially go to hospitals and use our very valuable resources right now. i think that while we are in this. where, basically, americans aren t paying for things and the government has to come in and rescue businesses and rescue families, that we just can t afford to be rescuing folks coming here for that liberal social welfare policy. that s how i read it. harris: is so common to both of you, emily and melissa, i m curious when you hear about the pushback on the president, like, why now? you can t get much done right now anyway or immigration because things have been installed. emily, you would know this best, just legally. the whole process has kind of been halted through the pandem pandemic. i m curious to know, what about the pushback? emily: right. well, like i said, if there are actual pushback for us, we ll see it play out in the courts. you re right, the president has made over a dozen changes to our immigration system as a result of the pandemic. the larger point is that his authority over immigration and especially for justifications of public health are quite broad. as i said earlier, it is virtually unlimited given the recent supreme court decision. i think the other thing to keep in mind, in terms of perspective, is the temporary nature of this. this is a 60-day pause. of course, it can be extended and re-upped, but i think the larger point is that this is an emergency measure in emergent times of the temporary duration. harris: melissa, it is interesting. you brought up the notion about the care services, leaning on that, so on and so forth. the jobs that they would want or necessarily go after, and 22 million americans who have lost theirs, how did they stack up? melissa: yeah, i mean, i have a hard time sort of extending this idea to the idea that people are going to show up and take away jobs from those who are looking for them. i mean, especially if, as emily said, it s not seasonal workers, it s not people related to the food chain. it sounds like it is targeted at those who would come on in h1b visa and maybe work as a programmer or coder, that sort of thing. that he s trying to block them from coming in. i don t know, i don t think there are a ton of people coming here to work right now. i don t really buy that is the rationale for it. i do think it has more to do with just how spread out within our resources are in terms of money. how much debt we are going into, how hard it is to support all of these millions and millions and millions of people who have lost their jobs, who have lost their source of income, as we have a new explosion every day. from oil, to the airline industry. i mean, everywhere you look. retail stores going down. there are so many more businesses begging for help, corporations going under, people who can t see their family, people who can t pay their rent. harris: right. melissa: we can t afford to take on any more burden right now. that s what i think about. emily: may make a quick data point please connect harris: i want to get to just get real quickly. let me get to jessica, go ahead. jessica: i wanted to add that melissa really hit the nail on the head when she said, i don t know how many people are coming into the country right now. there are not. there are about 400,000 people waiting in line through illegal immigration to come here, and they would be taking those programmer or coding jobs. but they re not traveling here right now. what we see is the president in 2016 he won on the immigration issue by scaring people about the celebrity. in 2018 he tried to do the caravan at ms-13. now he sees his poll numbers are not moving, he had a spy, it s back down. his handling of the coronavirus pandemic is underwater. he talked about how he banned travel to china, but we know that over 40,000 people went back and forth from the united states to china after that been done that came into place. he needs to signal to his base with that red meat, which is immigration for them, and say, i m going to be talking about this issue, pay attention to me. you might not be happy with what s going on, but i m going to give you this and i hate to say it, but it s kind of thing that reeks of xenophobia. banning immigration, when there are it s very dangerous. it s a traditional campaign rhetoric. i do not believe it s about public safety or the economy, quite frankly. harris: i m going to step in, emily. melissa: about the people going back and forth harris: i want to go back to emily get her in there. emily: just a quick data point to round this out. 460,000 people became green card holders last week in 2019, and that was down 13% from 2,018th, to jessica s point, but that was a significant number and that the data point that feeds into those millions unemployed and or stretch-sin system all the way around way around. harris: all right. melissa, i heard what you were saying. i think emily may have further that was what she was saying, too. we will wrap it up and move on quickly here. this is happening in georgia. governor brian kemp is running into some opposition over his plan to allow some businesses to reopen this friday. on the list, gyms, hair salons, bowling alleys, a hot debate next that you don t want to miss on whether it s about safety or about politics. i announce this on monday, so we can have time to educate the public and the business owners that this is just not handing them the keys back to go back to every word. this is a measured approach. about making choices. well i didn t choose metastatic breast cancer. not the exact type. not this specific mutation. but i did pick hope. .and also clarity. .by knowing i have a treatment that goes right at it. discover piqray, the first and only treatment that specifically targets pik3ca mutations in hr+, her2- mbc, which are common and linked to cancer growth. piqray is taken with fulvestrant after progression on hormone therapy and has been proven to help people with a pik3ca mutation live longer without disease progression. do not take piqray if you ve had a severe allergic reaction to it or to any of its 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streamline refi shortcuts the process. veterans can refinance with no income verification, no appraisal, and no out of pocket costs. one call could save you $2000 a year. that s ensure max protein, with high protein and 1 gram sugar. it s a sit-up, banana! bend at the waist! i m tryin ! keep it up. you ll get there. whoa-hoa-hoa! 30 grams of protein, and one gram of sugar. ensure max protein. in these challenging times, we need each other more than ever. we may be apart, but we re not alone. use aarp community connections to find or create a mutual aid group near you. stay connected and help those in need. melissa: georgia governor brian kemp running into resistance over his decision to allow some businesses to reopen this friday. the mayor of savannah among those pushing back. we are social beings. we have stayed apart from each other. we have to do all that we can to assure that we are gradually phasing in, in a very, very defined way. opening up gyms and movie theaters, restaurants, makes it very, very difficult for people to be able to social distance at this point. melissa: in the meantime, on the other side of the debate, more protests against stay-at-home orders breaking out across the country today. in multiple states, really. emily, i want to read to you this one quote from an op-ed that was in usa today. it really hits the nail on the head of an argument that i feel i ve been making here every day. they really are two americas. those getting a paycheck from government corporations or universities, and those who are unemployed or seeing their small businesses suffer due to shutdowns. the america that is still getting paid is so far not showing a whole lot of for the america that isn t. to me, i really feel like i ve heard from this divide. the people who are still getting paid are very focused on health. which makes sense, i understand that. but those who are watching their finances collapsed, watching the american dream collapse, their business collapsed, wondering how they are going to feed or educate their families, are really feeling like this has gone too far. what are your thoughts? emily: exactly. it s not mutually exclusive to have this economic death in this physical death. that duel america, 12 counties account for about half of all coronavirus debts here in the country. some counties have seen zero deaths. i want to point out an example that illustrates that large attention you mentioned. here in the state i m in, in washington state, from what i understand washington state is the only state that continues to ban recreational fishing during this time. while a lot of eyes were on michigan this weekend and the protests, here in washington anglers will protesting while maintaining their social distances, while being complian. that was the point they were protesting, that they can maintain that compliance with social quarantine and social distancing while fishing. because here it is a considerable source of food. if an angler is among the 22 million unemployed and has zero income and zero revenue at that moment, and yet has paid insurance and for a boat and permitting and the upkeep and cannot fish for his or her family, that s a problem. the larger problem which continues to evolve here is the governors inability to listen, here, and amend those guidelines as this entire situation continues to evolve. so the anglers and washingtonians here arguing that the governor is not listening to them, is not easing restrictions, because here, locally, regionally, where it affects them in this way, there s nothing being done about it to reflect your larger point, which is and in consideration of those in the local positions. melissa: dr. siegel, her point is such a good one. because the thing we see with these protests are people don t do themselves a favor when they go out and protest, they re not wearing masks, they are right next to each other, they are coming together, violating social distancing rules. they seem to be demonstrating that they can t go out and conduct themselves in a way that is going to keep this illness at bay. but emily is talking about a group that goes out and is physically making the point, we can be trusted to do this. what are your thoughts? dr. siegel: melissa, i think emily is exactly right, and you are right. we have to look at this on a case-by-case basis, on a state-by-state basis. i still haven t been able to get my motorboat in the water. i talk about it last week. i see plenty of canoes out there, but they aren t letting me put my boat in the water here in new york. to emily s point, let s look at georgia. governor camp in georgia is making this point, at a time when it s over thousand cases in georgia, and the curves looks like this, it s going up and down. it depends on th the day you lok at it. let makes plain what i mean by this, and why am concerned about this. i want rapid testing where the point that less than 10% are positive so i can really make sure that those out there, that we don t have a lot of asymptomatic cases out there that are going to nail salons, hair salons, that are doing body sculpting, and spreading it without even knowing they have it. having said that, i want to get back to emily s point. i like the idea of jim s openi opening. harris and i are always talking about mental health, how bad people are feeling in a crisis like this. how that leads to so many other medical problems. why not open gyms and do it in a way where you can keep social distancing? you might not be able to do that at the bowling alley. people are using the ball. we have to look at this on a case-by-case basis. harris: that s a really good point. dr. siegel: it might really help with mental health. but a nail salon, you can t have a nail salon where someone is not right on top of you. melissa: meantime, attorney general barr says the justice department might consider taking legal action against states that go too far with their stay-at-home orders. the nation s top law enforcement argue some orders are coming close to house arrest, and the need for such strict measures may be passing. to the extent that governors don t, and impinge on either civil rights or national commerce, our common market that we have here, we will have to impress that. these are very, very burdensome infringements on liberty. we have to remember, we adopted them for the purpose of slowing down the spread. that is bending the curve. melissa: emily, what s your thought on that, from a legal perspective? then we ll get jessica in. go ahead. emily: there s been a lot of significant reaction to what i thought was straightforward commentary by the attorney general. he was basically stating the law that state governments and police have pretty broad latitude to make decisions during public health emergencies, and that includes stay-at-home orders and quarantine. however, the legal test, if those things impinge on your constitutional rights, it s whether it s narrowly tailored and whether that law would be the least restrictive way to accomplish that legitimate goal. i also want to point out an interesting thing he cited at the end, which is the clause he was saying, look, these economic decisions, that s interstate commerce. that is federal jurisdiction and federal preview. so he saying they can come in. what he s articulating is exactly the question we should all be asking, and is wide that s the measure of our courts. if our civil liberties and constitutional rights are being trampled on that moment, there has to be a good reason and that has to past a certain test. melissa: jessica, what is your response to that? what do you think? is just funny to me that i thought republicans were the party of state rights. we had the president a couple weeks ago saying that she quickly backtracked, but he had complete authority over the entire country. we know from the tenth amend that that s not the case, as andrew cuomo pointed out. now the attorney general is saying that he could potentially get involved in the decisions of states are making. the truth of the matter is that state and local government have a higher approval rating in the handling of the coronavirus pandemic, because they actually know their state. i m sure if we ask federal officials to name all the counties and every state in the country, they couldn t do it. you know who does know the sinks? republican larry hogan, mike dewine. charlie baker. these are people that are on their political side that are saying, butt out of this, we know what s going on at home it should be up to us. it feels like gross overreach on the part of the ag. emily is the lawyer, so i m not pushing back on that. when you have a health crisis that matters down to the local, local level, let the local officials deal with it. melissa: and i feel like i know it s best for what s going on in my house and my family, and it should be my decision, on this very local level. so there you go. the senate passing of a massive coronavirus relief package as it had said the house. there is already another battle brewing on the hill over phase four. we ve gone so far on the national debt here that the next time we address this issue the senate should be back in session, fully up and running, with everybody involved in the discussion. i just love hitting the open road and telling people that liberty mutual customizes your insurance, so you only pay for what you need! [squawks] only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. long-lasting pain relief,e like aleve that provides strong, so sean can help push her on to her next adventure. at bayer, this is why we science. harris: the senate officially passing that $484 billion coronavirus relief bill, replenishing small business aid programs and adding funding for hospitals and testing. the house is set to take up the bill tomorrow, as speaker pelosi says she is already looking to initiate additional measures. we are passing in a bipartisan spirit, three in the month of march. we are ready to go on to the next one to help our heroes, our health care workers, our firefighters, our first responders, ems. harris: ready to go on to that next bill however, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell sput the brakes on face forward. i think it s also time to begin to think about the amount of death that we are adding to our country. and the future impact of that. i think we also have seen, with this catastrophic damage to the economy, that until we begin to open up the economy we can t spend enough money to solve the problem. harris: jessica, you know, democrats took some heat for not immediately coming to the table and doing deals. there were things coming in and out of this legislation. it would really help the american people, whether it s phase one, two, 3.5, whatever it is common to see everybody on the same page. how hard is it to accomplish that at this time and leave the politics out of it? jessica: apparently way too hard. but democrats are upset with the democrats, even. this isn t just right against left at this point. there are a lot of democrats in washington well, they are socially distanced at home right now that are disappointed in the outcome from this. we obviously want to get funding for hospitals and for testing, but we need more money for the small business loans. my own father is waiting for his company to be able to get their loan. when these stories come back about ruth s chris steak house getting a big loan, or what happened with shake shack, i know they give it back, but that $10 million should not have gone there in the first place. there plenty of people who need that money a hell of a lot more. this isn t just right left, i think this next bill needs to come faster. we have hundreds of thousands of people filing for unemployment, people who are not going to make your next rent payment. it s down to the hour. your next meal, remains of americans. harris: that s what i don t understand, in terms of just getting it done quickly, why this hasn t happened. of course, there s been another element in all of this, emily, that is really i mean, it s disgraceful. melissa and i have been talking about it, the way the legislation for relief was written. but the reporting by cnbc is just eye-popping, that these companies received aid, market values well in excess of $100 million. dmc global, 405 million. wade lifesciences, fiesta restaurant group, so on and so forth. you just heard jessica talking there about shake shack giving its $10 million back. harvard university. i mean, it s not a big business, it s a school, but my goodness, i saw senator sally excuse me, martha mcsally from arizona, this morning she tweeted about the fact, thanks for my grad degree, can you give that $40 million back, harvard? that was really complicating in this process, too. emily: you are so right, harris. a phrase often used in judicial opinions is that it shocks the conscience. i think all of us are feeling that right now. jessica really made a lot of great points, and i want to point out the role of the banks in this, too. unless you were a mega-bank that could shield this, or a tiny bank with very few customers, frankly everyone in the middle were totally inundated by the applications and they were paralyzed by the underwriting process. as jessica pointed out, those living hour to hour in those businesses, waiting for the influx of money, it s not happening because, in part, they didn t get in on time. they couldn t even get through to an actual human to answer the questions. in terms of the plan, as mitch mcconnell rightly said, more money didn t necessarily help anyone if the doors aren t open. it comes down to the ppp, and allowable use of funds and timing. both of those do not help small business owners if they inherited unemployment wages from the government to pay a workforce that is sitting at home with zero revenue because their doors aren t open. harris: wow. doc siegel, i m going to come to you on this point. i know we are talking economy and money, but this really flows right into it. so, you finally get the doors open, you get people in the ppp program, they get some support. we are hopeful that happens. i do get people to actually go back? what do you think, in your estimation, has to go coupling with the economy to get people back to all that spending we were doing as a nation in pers person? dr. siegel: obviously you re going to have to get the business is to open back up. that the gradual process we ve been talking about. i want to talk to don t like about things related to this quickly. the hospitals are going to go under. believe me. without the mris, the cts, elective surgeries, devoted to covid. next point i want to make, $25 billion worth of partnerships in the states, cdc and nih overseeing testing, it s going to be a cooperative effort. this is a national emergency. of course the feds have to play a role, but it s got to be state-by-state. last point, at the very end of the mcconnell clip they are talking about hazard pay for health care workers can make are you kidding me? they better come up with that. all health care workers across the united states are up in arms over this exact issue. putting their lives at risk, putting themselves on the front lines, often without the right equipment, getting sick, that better be part of the federal government. i understand how much tax money we re talking about, here, but our health care workers need to be getting hazard pay. harris: doc siegel, also weighing in. appreciate that, thank you. once they becoming the first in the nation to file a lawsuit against china over its handling of the covid-19 outbreak. will that state prevail? we ll debate it. it s a new day for veterans all across america. home values are up, and mortgage rates are at record lows. that s good news for veterans with va loans. that s me. by using your va streamline refi benefit, one call to newday usa can save you $2,000 a year. that s me. there s no income verification, no appraisal, and no out of pocket costs. that s me. put your va home loan benefits to good use. call my team at newday usa. but one thing hasn t: breakfast. and, if that feels like a little bit of comfort, it s thanks to. the farmers, the line workers and truckers, the grocery stockers and cashiers, and the food bank workers, because right now breakfast as usual is more essential than ever. to everyone around the world working so hard to bring breakfast to the table, thank you. so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you ll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. tell your doctor if you ve had mental health problems. the most common side effect is nausea. talk to your doctor about chantix. melissa: missouri becoming the first state in the nation to file a lawsuit against china, seeking damages over the country s handling of the coronavirus. missouri s attorney general, eric schmidt, is leading the case, sounding off. what we ve come to know, here, is that the chinese government engaged in a campaign of deception and deceit, of misrepresentations and malfeasance. it was a moral imperative for me, as the state s chief legal officer, to hold the chinese government accountable for their actions. melissa: the suit follows at least seven federal class action suits filed by public groups, and comes as lawmakers are requesting the trent administration being a case against china to international court of justice. emily, as our legal person on the panel here, i would come to you first. i understand they are suing the communist party. that makes it a little bit easier in terms of not suing another sovereign government. i imagine my mind immediately goes to what they re after. are they after financial compensation? that would hinge on being able to, i would guess, seize assets that are already here in the u.s. with that beer the remedy? emily: your executive right. there are two reasons why this might actually prevail or at least move along in the chain. number one, as you just said, they are suing the communist party. also without, not only is that a nonstate actor, that also means there s a ton of assets. yes, essentially, in the case of a break in our favor or missouri s favor, in this case they would seize those assets. the second thing is the fact that there is a commercial activities exception to that foreign sovereign immunities act law, which means that, look, they are operating the virology lab, they are operating a hospital system, they went from a net exporter of ppe to a net importer, et cetera. both the fact that they are suing a nonstate actor and also that there is that commercial exception is why this suit can probably move along. i want to point out, too, as you mentioned in the intro, this joins a larger movement, a global movement, frankly, to try an old kind done i china accountable. almost like a magnitsky act he did. they went after the money. country by country, everybody started coming on to old russia accountable for that reason, in the form of seizing assets. and the ag himself said, i want this to be determined. i don t think it ll be deterrence for china. i don t think they care. but i think it s messaging. money talks. seizing assets would certainly have an impact on the communist party of china. melissa: and have an impact on folks here, since money is a lot of what has been cost. in addition, obviously, two lives and health. money is another enormous factor. dr. siegel, is it fair to say that china was responsible and even negligent? dr. siegel: i think it s extremely fair. beyond the legal, the medical, there was a camouflaging of information. and i m not talking entirely about the chinese scientists. mainly the government. chinese scientists were suppressed in terms of releasing information. if you recall, it whistle-blower was forced to sign a document in the middle of the night under police duress that he was not telling the truth when he first revealed covid-19. that was just the beginning. there was a suppression of information, the world health organization was involved in this. we never knew how infectious are contagious this was. we didn t know that it spread to europe. we had no idea how many people were dying from this in china. we still don t know that. we don t know how many people were hospitalized. we are learning here, in real time, just how severe this virus is. just how it affects all organ systems of the body. we didn t learn that from china, about the blood clotting, the inflammation. this is far worse and far more contagious than we ever expected, and a virus is something that is a worldwide problem. well, the world health organization was calling it regional when it was already a pandemic. when it had already spread to italy. and they were definitely complicit with the chinese government on this. most importantly, the centers for disease control under this again last week has been begging from january on to go to china and work with their cohorts in china on the ground, boots on the ground, to figure out what was happening. i also don t believe and many scientists agree with me that this virus actually started in december or january. we think it started way before this, in the late fall or even earlier, and there was no information about it. this is an international crime that has occurred, here. melissa: no doubt it ll play its way until the next election. president trump and joe biden battling over who has been tougher on china, in this next major campaign, is this a big issue for 2020? 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jessica: only if it relates to health. i ve set a number of times i think the vice president does need to be more visible. not necessarily to be hitting the president about china, but so people know there s an election coming up. and this is the guy that s going to be on the other side facing president trump. i frankly think, though, that the china issue only matters as it relates to health at this point. it s been the number one issue of the 2018 midterms, and it ll be even more important. that s where china s role in all of this matters. frankly, you can take on both sides about this. i was a tremendous fan of president obama and his administration, but foreign policy was in place that i didn t feel was the real strength. i think there s opportunity. harris: i remember that. jessica: with president trump, certainly in the handling of this virus, and even the china trade deals, for instance. it s almost as if they cancel each other out and people will look at their bank accounts and, frankly, whether they are alive in november. that s how they will make their decision. harris: you know it really resonated though? release popped out, i should say. not resonated, but popped out from what he said, joe biden needs to remember there s an election coming up and he s the person on the other side of the tickets. he s run two other times, i don t think anyone would forget its joe biden. we talk about november, it s going to be here around the corner. emily, i m curious, how does joe biden really break through? he s going with the four cs. does that get it done? emily: he is betting that it will. it wouldn t behoove to him, at the beginning of this pandemic he has been behind the scenes, quietly raising money in trying to unify the party. in the public appearances that didn t bode well for his credibility and mental capacity. one is the tough sell that he was not hard on china. to jessica s point, that it s been a conversation topic for the administration. before that, the campaign for quite some time. secondly, ironically, his latest ad was called xenophobic and racist. i think he needs to find a way to unify, potentially, those blue-collar workers that might resonate with the content of the ad and those progressive liberals who are really turned off by it. it is a fine line. it s a battle he s been facing this entire time. really, it s the only unifying factor is just hatred against tk that s going to get them far enough across the finish line. harris: you know, melissa, we have it on the screen right now. those four cs. cover-up, chaos, corporate favoritism, came to lobbyists. maybe the former vice president can come through with facts or whatever he has just try to back that up. but it does feel like, with everything going through right now, that it s kind of like the middle of a conversation he s having with people. when did the start, where s it going, and where is it happening? is it all just on the internet? as a president is scooping up millions of people every day, between 5:00 and 7:00 p.m., to hear about the pandemic? melissa: yeah, i don t think very many people are paying attention to what joe biden has to say right now. i think it s a pro-trump vote, or in against trump vote, that s what it s going to come down to. it also comes down to at the beginning of the show, jessica was talking about the president s message, maybe some of the people that respond to it being xenophobic. that just reminds people that president trump raised the red flag about china from the very beginning, when joe biden was mocking him and saying these folks are our friends, they not a threat, with his son is out there doing deals with china. if you believed anything the president said, what you were also easy to foment a racist. but now the exact things he said we shouldn t have been worried about have come home to roost. they did lie, they did scoop up the supplies we needed. they are hanging onto the drug supply chain. all the things he was basically called racist and xenophobic for, it turns out they were true. people will remember that. jessica: can i just add really quickly harris: they didn t act like friends. jessica: joe biden s son, i understand the connection to china there, but if were going to talk about people s kids again, ivanka trump has gotten dozen of patents in china since the present has been in office. jared kushner does deals there. harris: jessica, i m going to step in. nobody will have time to rebut that and we got a suit, we are out of time. more outnumbered coming up. i don t add up the years. and i don t count the wrinkles. but what i do count on is boost high protein. and now, introducing new boost women. with key nutrients to help support thyroid, bone, hair and skin health. all with great taste. new, boost women. designed just for you. new, boost women. mortgage rates have dropped to all time lows. by refinancing now, you can save $2000 a year. and newday s va streamline refi shortcuts the process. veterans can refinance with no income verification, no appraisal, and no out of pocket costs. one call could save you $2000 a year. melissa: our thanks to dr. marc siegel and the rest of the virtual couch, as we all navigate this time together. we ll be back here at noon eastern tomorrow. outnumbered overtime with harris faulkner starts right now. harris: the debate is raging now as the white house takes new action on immigration amid the coronavirus pandemic. you re watching outnumbered overtime. i m harris faulkner. president trump says he will sign an executive order today, blocking new green cards for at least 60 days. citing the covid-19 crisis, and historic job losses for americans. here s the president. by pausing immigration, we will help put unemployment americans first in line for jobs as america reopens. so important. it would be wro