again, along with obamacare, of course. the funny thing is, trump is using this approach to try to appeal to latino voters, while at the same time promising to bring to america the political style and economic policies of the strongmen leaders of places like argentina and venezuela, which have some of the highest inflation rates in the world right now. make it make sense. tomorrow is set to be a big day for economic news. we will get a new inflation report in the morning and the fed will give an update on interest rates in the afternoon. so is rachel maddow would say, watch this space. and that is tonight s reidout . you can follow me on tiktok and instagram and follow our show accounts on instagram and tick tock. all in with chris hayes starts now. tonight on all in as we deliberated today, we reached a verdict pretty quick. the presidents son found guilty of violating federal gun laws. no one in this country is above the law. everyone must be accountable for their actions, even this offender. tonight, what today s verdict does and does not mean about the rule of law in america. everyone is saying, where is hunter? a two-tiered system of justice we have. and how we campaign led by a convict is vetting potential running mates. certainly like having committed a crime and the scandal that just won t end. i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag. tonight jamie raskin and aoc together on their push to get answers from the supreme court. can you tell us how the supreme court and specifically the chief justice have addressed these scandals? when all in starts right now. good evening from new york. i am chris hayes. in a political era marked by a never-ending string of historic firsts, here is another today. a rare court decision that conservatives received with glee. hunter biden has been found guilty on all counts in his gun trial, federal trial in wilmington, delaware. hunter biden, the last living son of the sitting president was convicted today on three felony counts connected to lying on a federal firearms application in 2018 by not disclosing his struggles with drug addiction. he had that gun for 11 days. hunter biden now faces 25 years in prison and his father, president joe biden, did not blast the case as a crooked witchhunt. he did not target the prosecutors, the judge and the jurors, some of whom called into major news shows to discuss the verdict with no fears for their safety in this high-profile case. president biden did not shake his fist at the justice system. he put up this statement. as i said last week, i am the president, but i am also a dad. jill and i love our son and we are so proud of the man he is today. so many families who have had loved ones battle addiction understand the feeling of pride. as i also said last week, i will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as hunter considers an appeal. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. nothing will ever change that. i have to say i find that genuinely touching. his love of family. also respect of the process. it is an incredibly stark contrast to the ceaseless barrage of absolutely unhinged authoritarian histrionics we all witnessed last month. remember? not just donald trump, but the entire republican party. all of the people dressing up like donald trump who went to the courthouse so he will pick them to be vice president. all of them basically calling to tear down the entire judicial system or casting aspersions on new york jurors or the judge or the prosecutor. everyone. all because their nominee got caught falsifying business records and was convicted unanimously by a jury of his peers on 34 felony counts. this was a rigged trial by a convicted judge who was corrupt. a disgrace. this is like a soviet style thing. show me the person and i will show you the crime. this was a political smear job. this is what you see in banana republics. this is the most outrageous travesty i ve ever seen. this is a justice system that hunts republicans while protecting democrats. this was a hoax, a sham. do we want to become a country where we try to jail are political opponents? what do you think the party affiliation of hunter biden is? and so this hunter biden conviction is as clear a moment of contrast as possible between the two major coalitions, the major parties in the country today. what it illustrates is that one party, under donald trump, and this is important, has placed itself outside the american constitutional order, while the other is trying to defend and uphold it. that was clear as day on january 6, but particularly in the aftermath there was palpable were among republicans. lots of them talking about how horrified they were and resigning from the administration and all of that. and there was a sense the party wanted to distance themselves from trump s lawlessness. that was then. today they are fully united as a party in opposition to the constitution. an attitude by one of the most powerful conservatives you ve never heard of. he wrote portions of the heritage foundation s project 2025 on how to remake the executive branch and a trump presidency. the washington post identified him as a potential chief of staff. he lays out his vision for a post-constitutional presidency to turn the government into a flatly authoritarian project or failing that, just a mafia style. disease more control of the justice department and assert power to withhold congressional appropriations and that is just on trump s first day back in office. meanwhile democrats are not just making statements of faith, they have taken real actions to preserve those institutions and their independence. no better example of this is the prosecution of hunter biden. remember how this started? okay, back in 2018 under david weiss, the u.s. attorney trump appointed in delaware, the fbi probed hunter biden. there were subpoenas, but there were no charges and remember, trump grew angry that his justice department had not publicized the investigation into his opponents son during the 2020 election. after trump lost the election, republicans insisted president biden would obstruct justice to keep his son free and they called for a special counsel to investigate. when a new president comes and it is his right to replace any u.s. attorney they want. they usually do. biden replaced all of trump s appointees except for two. who bill barr had test to investigate the russia probe. and david weiss, who was investigating his own son. that is because the new president, at the pains of a possible criminal conviction of his surviving son in recovery, wanted no appearance of impropriety or interference and infect biden s attorney general merrick garland went a step further and appointed weiss as special counsel to make sure his work on the hunter biden case was truly independent. that was a move that republicans opposed. the house judiciary committee writing, david weiss can t be trusted. this is just a new way to whitewash the biden family corruption. after all that an appeal deal was worked out with hunter biden and ultimately rejected by the courts. weiss ended up charging the president son for an offense so rarely prosecuted that even trey gowdy, the former congressman and prosecutor, could scarcely believe it. i did gun prosecutions for six years. i went after convicted felons. i went after people who were fugitives from justice. i went after lots of different people who were prohibited from possessing a firearm, but i bet there were not 10 cases prosecuted nationwide of addicts or unlawful drug users who possess firearms or lied on applications. i bet there weren t a dozen, which makes you wonder of all the cases you could be pursuing in delaware, why are you pursuing this one? all of this was facilitated by democrats in the white house and department of justice and capitol hill to restore faith in equal justice under the law and the norms of the constitutional order. donald trump flagrantly violated the law, interfering with the department of justice. stewing when he could not interfere further. publicly calling for prosecutions. you may have forgotten that months into his presidency troubles calling federal prosecutors and cultivating relationships with them, including the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. and obama holdover who was overseeing the investigation into stock trades made by trump s health secretary. he said those calls made him uncomfortable and he was fired as u.s. attorney less than a day after he finally refused to take a call from president trump. the administration would later tell propublica, trump s personal attorney bragged about getting him fired with reportedly telling trump, this guy is going to get you. the former united states attorney for the southern district of new york joins me now. an interesting study in contrast over the past few weeks. what strikes you about the reaction? when you think about the biden family and how joe biden in particular thinks about his job and not just his job, but his family. upon a conviction or before the conviction, the arrest and indictment of his son, given what his family has been through, you would think every fatherly instinct would ve been to protect him. if you are a father, and i know you are, you love your children more than you love yourself. you try to protect them from harm and you try to protect them from bad consequences. the biden family has suffered lots of bad things as a family and yet there are some things more important than that when you are the commander in chief and basically the president of the country and one of those things is that no one is above the law and the rule of law matters. here is an occasion as you were playing out in the intro, where joe biden had absolute authority. literal authority. he had no authority over robin bragg and did not direct the prosecution of donald trump. it is his justice department. he had the authority to direct people not to prosecute his son. he could have fired the special counsel. he could have directed the special counsel not be appointed in the first place. he could have pardoned his son preemptively. all of that conduct, given that it is his son, it kind of makes you pause and think about ton about how unbelievable that is. in a million years, if the shoe were on the other foot and donald trump was facing his son being prosecuted, by me if i had been held over. a biden holdover prosecutor, not in a million years with that have happened. some of the people on the right, the people who support donald trump, are trying to cast this as some clever program by which this actually proves they yes. i will say it is outlandish imagining don junior getting in trouble with guns and drugs, but stephen miller said this. the gun charges are a misdirection and an easy opt to sell to a quiet media that is also willing to be duped. this is about protecting joe biden and only joe biden. no matter what happens, right, the corrupt deep system is deeper than you realized. if every possible outcome, every possible permutation is arguably a point in your favor, maybe your position is terrible. i used a different word than terrible. honestly i don t even think he was required to keep david weiss on in delaware. honestly, when i say bend over backwards, that is bending over it would have been perfectly reasonable to replace him. obviously it would not be reasonable to say wink wink, nagy nudge. but if you say do your thing. by the way some other features are important to point out and you mentioned some in the intro. the jury verdict came out. they did not dox the jury or attack the judge. he did not say this is a witch hunt. he said what people say. what i used to say when i was u.s. attorney for 7 1/2 years. you win some and you lose some. we say we respect the verdict of the jury. completely opposite to what donald trump said. it was striking. after that trump verdict, i remember judge kaplan in the federal civil trial with e. jean carroll told the jurors, look, you can talk to the press if you want. i would advise you not to. in alvin bragg s case they did not and i think we all know the reason. they would expose themselves to harassment and possible threats and violence. here you had the jurors talking to us, which, great, am a reporter. i like it, but what a contrast. it is a very stark contrast and i think it goes to show that when joe biden and his supporters talk about the rule of law and nobody being above the law, they mean it. you can disagree with joe biden s policies and talk about the border and all of these things that are not in my bailiwick, but on the question of whether or not the rule of law is to be enforced and no favor given to anyone, including the son of a sitting president of the united states. the republicans are full of it on trump side and biden is not. he has walked the walk. my final question for you is about independence in the department of justice. we have a post mix in order. one of the things about nixon and the reckoning at a level of regulation, norms, and that schuetz was the department of justice can t just be a tool in the hands of the executive to pursue vendetta to prosecute and punish enemies to protect friends. the trump vision is exactly that and in fact, explicitly that. they really think we are going to come in and it is going to be like day one, go open an investigation on that person, prosecute them. what they have accused everyone else of doing. there is a great irony. one of the cases pending against donald trump, the mar-a-lago documents case in federal court in florida, donald trump steam has made a number of motions to dismiss the indictment. one of those is vindictive prosecution. there is no evidence that joe biden or anyone else directed the investigation and prosecution and indictment. by saying the things they are saying now that you are pointing out, donald trump is ironically laying out the foundation for a vindictive prosecution motion to dismiss on behalf of all the current people donald trump will be going after. he is announcing his plans before election. all of those statements and those plans, project 20/25 and everything else, will be chapter and verse and asking for those dismissals of those indictments. coming up, congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez and jamie raskin on the litany of scandals rocking the supreme court, but first, what we are learning about donald trump s rude awakening from the justice system, next. system, next. shop etsy anytime for furniture, lighting, and other thoughtful pieces made by real people to bring a little something extra to the ordinary. find handmade items that add wow to your walls, help your party set-up pop, and new things to help you fall in love with your family room again. when you want 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crime, is often on job applications. it is the subject of campaigns to get rid of it, to help former convicts get jobs and reenter society. that question is apparently still part of the vetting of trump s vice presidential pick, where it seems only one member of the ticket gets to be a felon. they asked us for a number of things. i think a number of people have been asked to submit this and that. like your taxes or something? criminal background? have you committed a crime? have you ever lied about this? certainly you have those conversations. he extensively covered trump world including his recent reporting on the juror. it is interesting to watch folks who don t know this and to watch the various implications of being convicted of a felony and all the different types of regulations and things you cannot do. in some states it is disenfranchisement, voting, liquor licenses and the like. being a person of color and a former prosecutor, i am unmoved by these newfound epiphanies on the right with respect to the reality of life in america if you are a convicted felon. one thing i find to be particularly interesting is how the right is scrambling to rearrange the narrative of what it is to be a felon. think of this for a moment. you re talking about the party that planted its flag on the notion of law and order in america, now having to walk out and say it is politically advantageous for our candidate to have 34 convictions on his record. this is a narrative they are not going to be able to square, but it is funny to watch them try. he invited in the bronx on stage, folks who are facing charges for a broad conspiracy with people that includes moving heavy drugs and violent crime. very serious, gnarly stuff. and has them on the stage like hey, this is our thing now. let s be clear, you are talking about whether someone is an associate of new orleans. an associate of felons. the list is long. i think they are trying to be like, it is actually good we are felons and they don t actually believe that. it s amazing how much the tough on crime philosophy falls by the wayside when it is the racist game show hosts turn in the barrel. donald trump and his minions talk day in and day out about a two-tiered system of justice. he is correct that one does exist in this country, it is just he is at this tier and everyone else s at this tier. so many things no other defendant could get away with. including the judge and all that stuff, he would have been put in jail for sure. absolutely and now behind the scenes and in the open he and his maga brain trust are getting ready to exploit parts of the u.s. criminal code to go after alvin bragg, letitia james, jack smith, if he returns to power in 2025. some of this is being cooked up behind the scenes and policy papers, but so much is being done in the open. you ve also got them moving to get alvin bragg before a committee. he will testify with the gop led judiciary committee. one question i had about all of this, does any of this matter in the process that trump was going through? no, it does not. you don t think it matters, talking about it is all rigged? does that matter for sentencing? donald trump s public rhetoric absolutely matters. i thought you were referring to alvin bragg going to capitol hill, which is something i think he should not do. with respect to the things donald trump is parroting in the dialogue around his case, that matters. one of the things the probation officer is going to take into account is what degree of understanding and remorse do you have? i screwed up, i m sorry. exactly. to walk in his office and say that when you have every opportunity with the microphone in front of your face. you ve reported on this and this has been going around the house republican leaders are privately gauging support for legislation that would let current and former presidents move a state case to federal court. have you heard any of that? we reported in rolling stone at the end of last month that trump had been personally calling around to different conservative allies, including republican lawmakers on capitol hill, to lobby them. when i m back in office, wouldn t it be great if you passed legislation that is ready for me to sign to have former and current presidents be able to move their cases to federal court. again, i think they are getting high on their own supply. i feel like that is a bad bill to vote for. for a front-line republican member. right? i m not crazy. if you are a maga lawmaker, certainly there is a cute appeal to it. it is not only moderate republicans on capitol hill saying maybe we shouldn t do this. i ve spoken to cronies who are close to donald trump who have told me maybe we should not go down this route because don t we want to use state a.g. s and conservative district attorneys to go after joe biden or hillary clinton? yes, the principal applying equally would hang them up. there is back and forth about the gun situation, charles. i m sure you have encountered this. what does the law say about whether he can keep the gun in florida? in your crime. he more likely than not will need to turn the gun in in florida. he is going to have a grace period where that is allowed. well technically he might be in violation of the law upon notice of conviction, he is probably going to be allowed but it does not surprise me he has to turn it in in florida. there is an incredible thing happening which is the hunter biden conviction was about a felony conviction. he lied on forms. committing a felony in terms of taking drugs and owning a gun. so he lied on the forms. now we have the ex-president holding a gun, having been convicted of a felony. a remarkable set of circumstances. charles coleman, asawin suebsaeng, thank you both. still to come, samuel alito s wife has more thoughts about flags, amazingly. aoc and jamie raskin on the supreme court legitimacy crisis, ahead. 50 days!? and its refill reminder light means i ll never miss a day of 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the opposite of pride. the alito s have not responded to requests for comment but none of what ms. alito said change the facts that justice alito allowed this to fly over his home while he sits in the highest court in the land hearing cases related to the insurrection on january 6 and sits on the court with his buddy clarence thomas whose wife was interviewed by the committee about her text with donald trump s chief of staff. both refused to recuse themselves, despite the obvious appearance of bias. when faced with an increasingly urgent question, what can be done about the out-of-control court? today democrats held a roundtable on the ethical crisis in the supreme court. i should note that one of the expert legal witnesses there was my wife. leading the panel was jamie raskin, the ranking member of the oversight committee and newark congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, the vice ranking member, and they join me now. it is good to have you on. thanks for having us. i will start with you and what the agenda was today. obviously you can t call hearings yourself as a ranking member and not the chair, but what were you trying to do today? oversight democrats wanted to respond to the national clamor over this crisis of legitimacy at the supreme court. so we analyzed the ethics crisis. we analyzed the political crisis around what got us into this and the blockaded confirmations of people like merrick garland, nominated by president obama to the court, and then we began to talk about what things could be done in the specific case of justices alito and thomas and generally about the ethical collapse of the supreme court. it is the highest court in the land with the lowest ethical standards. the only government officials in the land who are not governed by a binding ethics code. there is no process by which we can hold any of them accountable, so it violates the essential principle that james madison identified as the heart of our justice system. which is that no man can be a judge in his own cause. so we began to explore different avenues of holding them accountable. congresswoman, you said something toward the end of the hearing that it cannot be the case as a constitutional matter, as an almost intuitive commonsense matter, that they are not subject to any checks. we have three branches. checks and balances move between the positions and justice alito said in the wall street journal interview that congress has no ability to regulate us whatsoever. what should congress be doing? what are you brainstorming basically? what is the conversation about what those can be? of course justice alito s position is laughable in this. this idea that he can be and that the court should be accountable to nobody and that the only person they should be accountable to our themselves. this kind of scouts promise sort of set up for how we should be having ethics standards for the highest and most consequential court in the land. it is completely unacceptable and not only is it unacceptable but to have anyone of our coequal branches be completely unaccountable to the others is paving the path to authoritarianism, tyranny, the abuse of power in the united states. it is structurally, completely unsustainable. so it is not a question of if congress has jurisdiction and power over the supreme court. it is what power are we going to exercise in order to reign in a fundamentally unaccountable and rogue court? one of the beautiful things about today s roundtable is we were also able to call in one of our senate colleagues, senator whitehouse, who has been pursuing extensive investigations into the dark money network that has been exerting influence over the court and we raised and discussed varying measures from term limits to an actual binding ethics standard and also congressman raskin and myself will be introducing forthcoming legislation to even have the supreme court be subject to the same $50 gift rule that he and i are subject to, as are everyone else who are members of congress. that is a great point. my understanding, i was talking to my wife, kate shaw, about this. to give testimony during the hearing. she pointed out to me if i am not mistaken that things, for instance, you can get a book deal as a supreme court justice. that is allowed. but you could not like to be a partner that is something that congress passed a statute to say what you could and could not do, because obviously it would be nuts to be a supreme court justice and have a side gig as a lawyer. we all understand that. congress can pass statutes that say this activity is just not allowed. congress has a ban on outside employment and as aoc was saying, we have a $50 gift ban, so none of us goes anywhere near doing that. you don t do $500,000 vacations? that s the comical thing. members of congress don t even understand that. under what circumstance would a supreme court justice be accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions of dollars in foreign travel were paid tuition for family members or a recreational vehicle, motor stagecoach? it is outlandish for us to complicate to contemplate. it is like the normal business as usual at the supreme court that they are collecting millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of dollars from their so-called friends. we need to clean that up. we said we will start with something simple that the whole country will be able to understand immediately and intuitively. we want a $50 gift ban. they make $300,000 a year. pay for your own lunch and pay for your own vacation. that does seem quite clear, congresswoman, and also has the advantage again. there are particular issues to deal with, but in some ways the only way to legislate it or for congress to act is outlining broad principles that are equally applicable. absolutely and as all of us as public servants, whether it is both chambers of congress, any of us are subject to the same or similar uniform code of ethics and the fact that the supreme court, which is already unelected, at least for those of us who run for office we have to re-run for office every two years in the house. for an unelected body of nine people, appointed for life, to not have any sort of binding, strict ethics code to which they cannot only be held accountable, but which can be enforced, is actually ludicrous. and it is almost unbelievable that we are sitting here in the year 2024, over 200 years after the establishment of this country, and that we actually have not addressed this issue. it is long past doing and it is common sense. one of the things we addressed, chris, was how the private corruption of the justices mirrors the public corruption of justice. it is this roberts court, this right-wing court dismantling civil rights laws, civil liberties, women s rights to choose, labor law, consumer law, you name it. as they grow more and more removed from the experiences of the way the rest of us live, the more they are willing to demolish the protections. the there are a bunch of things that happened outside of the ap purview that you have to do with equal justice under law and i wonder if both of you would stick around to talk ul about that, is that all right? 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i mean, it was very presidential and, you know, he showed in his statement love for his son and love for his country including the rule of law. the different reactions between a republican colleagues and our democratic colleagues with the trump verdict and hunter biden verdict, it is just astounding. nobody on our side said that the fix was in, nobody said that it was a travesty, nobody said that the justice needs to be turned upside down. everybody accepted it. hunter biden, like donald trump, had the right of counsel which you exercise, you have the presumption of innocence, he had the right to take the stand which he chose not to do like donald trump chose not to take the stand and they have both had unanimous jury verdicts finding that they were guilty on all counts. so i am saying about that what i said about donald trump s verdict which is, they have a right to appeal and they can do that under due process, thank god we have got that in america. and we are going to stand by the rule of law and the system of justice, for the same reason that we are fighting for a supreme court that restores its integrity and reputation because we need to have that kind of confidence, not just at the trial level in federal court or state court. we need to have it going all the way up. those of supreme court justices are just a complete runaway body. speaking of state court in new york, congresswoman, obviously you represent part of new york, there was a huge amount of insults and vitriol that has been directed at alvin bragg both from donald trump on down and people carrying water for him, that has now escalated. he will now he is being called by the house republicans before the judiciary committee and be grilled by house republicans who have rallied behind mr. trump since his conviction last month. gop lawmakers are perpetuating his false narrative that president biden ordered his prosecution. what you think about the fact that they are not escalating to the point where they will call alvin bragg before congress? what we are seeing here unseld is an outright abuse of power in the politicization of the seats of power these republicans hold in order to intimidate the courts and exact political revenge. we have to just look at this from a basic jurisdictional point of view. alvin bragg is not even this is not even a federal case in the same way. we are looking at a state court. and we are looking at municipal and state courts and we have republicans who are trying to haul them in, on what grounds exactly? this is not federal court, they do not have jurisdiction over it, this is truly just and attempt at public targeting. and we see that they do this, this is in the middle of donald trump, it is in the model of invoking and trying to incite as much anger and intimidation in order for them to get the outcomes that they want. they are so eager to be fans to donald trump that their political judgment is off because that is not where the public is and the public understands, with the hunter biden verdict in the donald trump verdict, the rule of law is just working and they are intervening, as you say, and an estate case in order simply to placate donald trump pics to precisely, what we are also seeing here is the stark contrast between joe biden and donald trump. and in president biden, we have both come yes, a loving father who is there to be supportive of his son, but also a president who respects rule of law and is willing to accept the outcomes of the case even if that outcome is not in favor with his family or his personal outcomes. whereas, you have donald trump who takes and finances the seats of government, the seats of power, and embarks on a campaign, a political intimidation, in order to secure outcomes that personally benefit him. and that at the core is part of the sticks of our democracy that are before us today. because once rule of law goes out the window, it is not something that is easy to get back and it is very much a part of the decision that we have to make before us in the next few months. congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, congressman jamie raskin, thank you for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. that is all in on this tuesday night. alex wagner tonight starts now. we have new exclusive audio from the supreme court historical society that lauren winsor has given us and we will be playing that in the hour, so stay tuned. i will pick like i said, exclusive never before heard audio recordings of justice samuel alito speaking to an undercover
class= nosel > div class= colspacer > div class= gutr > we did our job and we got him convicted. so they did. this sisterhood. for the sake of a woman whose fate might have been theirs. diane holik. whose friends came together to remember how they miss her. even after all these years. she was a constant friend. she was in my life every day and all of a sudden she was gone in an instant like blowing a candle out. you see the smile on all these photographs. was she always smiling? always. always. she had a magic smile. it was infectious. if she was smiling everybody else had to. we had to. i m andrea canning, and this is dateline. andrea canning: it was one of the most harrowing days in our history. i hear this pop, pop, pop,. the attempted assassination of president reagan. screaming and yelling. it is chaos. and now unprecedented look into the mind of the gunman, john hinckley junior. and the police officer that questioned hinckley speaks out in his first television interview. he turned to her and said, will you marry me? secrets of his diaries on daylight. his obsession to actress jody foster. is hinckley really fit to be free. he s a potentially dangerous character. he s proven that. hello. welcome to dateline. he shot a president and shook the country. we re about to unveal a probe of his most private thoughts and feeling and his second act as a free man. here is special contributor troy roberts. hinckley, diary are a dangerous mind. reporter: charming, small town, williamsberg, virginia. people visit from all over the world for a taste of america s colognal history. that man came for something more, a new life. one that would be quiet and normal. he volunteers at a church goes for long walks. reporter: but his journey to get here was a long one, filled with violence, mental illness and confinement. this is a violently insane person, so you need to put him some are where he cannot harm somebody. reporter: no one would guess now, but this senior citizen casually walking around town it is the man that tried to kill a president of the united states over a movie star, john hinckley junior. after being institutionalized for three decades, he is pretty much a free man. it was a rainy spring monday in washington d.c. , a few months after ronald reagan was elect the president. 70 days into reagan s first term. it is a nothing die. he gave a speech at the washington hilton . reporter: a nothing day was about to be a day that no one would ever forget. dale wilber interviewed well over 100 people for his book, raw hide, the secret service code word for reagan. he gives a speech and walking out. it is 2:27 p.m. i was part of the press pool, which is the small group of reporters that follow along in the motor motorcade. he came out the door and waving. he raised his arm to wave to people there. reporter: 15 feet away was a rope line that separated a small crowd of reporters and bystanders from the president. in that crowd, a sandy blonde- haired 25-year-old named john hinckley junior. moments later. it sounded like firecrackers. you knew in an instant it could knot be firecrackers and you knew it was a gun. i saw a jumble of people shov people shoving the into the car. reporter: all three camera crews that were able to capture it all. first shot hits in the head. and the fourth shot hits tom mccarthy and turned and took a shot to the chest without a bulletproof vest. i remember the yelling and the chaos and said, was the president hit? they said, i don t think so. reporter: did you see john hinckley outside of the hotel? i saw the police on top of a man on the ground. a secret service agent with a oozy. so they are hustling him over to this car. reporter: president reagan s son ron was in lincoln, nebraska when he was told about the shooting. he told my wife and i that shots been fired. they didn t think he was hit. we was an announcement from the white house. definitely, the president was not hit. reporter: but inside the presidential limo, a different story was playing out. reagan is increasingly complaining of chest inside. he pulls a napkin out of his right coat pocket and there was blood. reporter: president reagan was shot and his life was in danger. wilber explained how he was wounded. we re watching a slow motion reply. look how close he is. look at the gun. the bullet hits right there and gets through that little gap. reporter: through the tiny gap created by the open door of the bullet proof car hitting the president and incredible fluke. it was hinckley s sixth and final shot. the secret service agents raced him to george washington university hospital, where the doctors found the bullet dangerously close to president reagan s heart. judy, i m sorry to interrupt. reporter: nbc cut into her report with the news. we have two bulletins that president reagan was shot in the chest. reporter: he was rushed into surgery. the fbi was desperately trying to find out what happened. retired fbi agent, thomas baker. was there part of the conspiracy? were other people shot. reporter: the incident ands were chilling more than they could imagine and the clues were hiding in plain sight. a nation is rocked as the announcement about the president s condition and man that pulled the trigger. reporter: the first nationally televised interview of the detective that questioned hinckley minutes after the attack. he was like matter of fact like it wasn t really a big deal. reporter: did he ask any questions about the condition of the president or mr. brady? no. he did not seem concerned. reporter: no remorse? no remorse at all. copd has not been pretty. it is tough to breathe and tough to keep wondering, if this is as good as it gets. with three medicines and one inhaler, it keeps the airways open and prevents future flareups. and with one dose a day, it improves lung function so i can breathe freely and all night. do not take it more than prescribed. it may increase your chance of the thrust, pneumonia or problem breathing. ask your doctor about once daily trilogy because breathing should be beautiful. some people know that the best rate for you is the rate based on you with all state. there is a right way to and the speed limit is not 700 million miles an hour an hour. you re a terrible boss with a terrible haircut. safe and get a rate based on you. you re in good hands with allstate. suffering from arthritis, muscle and joint manet. pain. ease stiffness and soreness naturally. rose sparks engineered for the spontaneous. it has the active ingredients norman, bad news. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is. xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal. i know. faster wifi and savings? .i don t want to miss that. that s amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? available. if you ve been destinationed, call 290-7477 now. get the latest updates on the presidential race with how to win 2024. if we re going to talk about how to win 2024 and not talk about immigration, we re in trouble. we need to get back voters that supported him in 2020. news was everywhere, president ronald reagan had been shot in washington d.c. it is a terrible feeling that america has lived through so many times in the past. president reagan and the three men shot near him were all taken to nearby hospitals. brady had a catastrophic brain injury. mccarthy shot in the liver. a bullet lodged near his spine. the president, one lodged only an inch from his heart. how close did he come to dying? reagan came within a couple minutes of dying. reporter: meanwhile, the man that shot him was in the custody of the washington d.c. the entire homicide detective was the first person to question hinckley. more than 38 years since that day, this was his first national television interview. he looked like a college student. he just didn t seem to fit the profile of what i thought presidential assassin look like. reporter: what was john hinckley s demeanor when you started the interview. he didn t seems like it was a big deal. reporter: he also assured detective that he acted alone. did you ask him that question directly? yes, i did. i asked, are you by yourself. he responded i m with no run. reporter: did he ask any questions about the condition of the president or mr. brady? no, never did. he never seemed concerned. reporter: no remorse? no remorse at all. reporter: desperate for any clue or everyday that could explain the motive for the shooting, he searched his wallet and found photos. what did he say? you ll find out when you read the letter in my room. reporter: at that point, he shut down and refused to say more. he seemed arrogant, almost smug. i said you re going to be charged with attempted assassination of the president of the united states. as i m writing this in my notes, i m having a hard time spelling assassination. he said i ll spell it for you. reporter: soon after, he was turned over to the fbi. by evening, word of hinckley s arrest was public. the man that fired the shots today has been identified as john warnock hinckley of evergreen, colorado. i m thinking that is so weird that the guy that shot the president has the same name as my friend john hinckley. reporter: as kids, evan price, kurt dooley and well will francis grew up with hinckley. they didn t believe the shooter was their john till they heard where he went to school. i know this guy. friendly person. this cannot be happening. reporter: it was hard for all of them to scare the would be assassin for a friend they have known for a decade. he s handsome, happy, and look greats. reporter: they met in the 1960s and bonded over sports and music. he was a well-liked guy. we would go to record shops, stores, places to go to have burger. reporter: his father was the owner of a oil and gas business. they said that his family seemed perfect, straight out of a tv classic, leave to beaver. it was a great family. she was just june clear of. and his dad was more like ward. reporter: so what changed for the kid that grew up with everything? back in washington, the fbi was wondering the same thing. that night, agents were at the park central hotel where hinckley had been staying. we executed a search warrant of his hotel room. thomas baker was the agent in charge. we found the later, the statement of why he was doing this. reporter: the letter revealed that hinckley did not try to kill the president for political reasons. he did it because of attacker and twisted obsession with a woman. hinckley s bombshell motive thrusts a young hollywood actress into the the spotlight and those close to the president are left reeling. raw pain for the reagan family. and hinckley s fixation on actress jody foster. the letters were assumed to be love type letters. what dateline continues. tell me why. have you tried downey rinse and refresh. down i didn t rinse and refresh. down any will get your heart racing and prices that you know every day. the designer sales up to 70% off. shop gilt.com today. two scoops of ice cream and two thumbs up. get two months of service free. all with fast, reliable nationwide coverage. make the switch today. did you know taking at night relieves while you sleep for a more productive sleep. and get 24-hour relief. i m here to tell you about ab all new special offer from my friends at jacuzzi bathroom remodel that you don t want to miss. they have been making water feel great for 25 years. we re waiving all installation cost. they have a design that you ll love at a price that you can afford. best of all, they can install in as little as one day with no stress and no mess p are you ready to see your new shower? 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either politically motive or he s just racy. reporter: they learned that his motives were not at all by political. he was fueled by an obsession by an actress, jody foster. dear jody. i will be killed in my attempt to get reagan. it is for this reason that i m writing you this letter now. retired fbi agent phenomenon baker. he wanted to impress her and win her heart. i have to do something that i m doing all of this for your sake. reporter: the fbi needed to talk to foster. when the agents arrived at yale university, where she was a student, the actress was visibly upset. she said that hinckley started arriving her soon after she arrived on campus the previous fall and had not stopped. was he threatening? what was he like? i m not allowed to say. letters were assumed to have been love type letters. have you ever seen hinckley, that you know of? no, not to my knowledge, i have never met him. reporter: he was attending a yale writer s program. that was a lie. he was not there. he was there living in a hotel and stalking jody foster. reporter: this note was left for her just weeks before the shooting. jodie, good-bye, i love you 6 trillion times. you must admit, i am different. it would make all of this worthwhile. reporter: when did the obsession of jodie foster s obsession began? 1976. he saw the movie taxi driver. she plays like a prostitute in the movie. and he became obsessed with her. he identified with bickle. he thought he was going to asass nature and die in the guns like bickle did. reporter: but hinckley considered other options first, like hijacking a plane and even killing the woman that he claimed to love. his plan was to kill jodie foster, shoot him, her or shoot himself in front of her. return they thought this could be the basis of an insanity defense. and they hired dr. carpenter. carpenter met with hinckley for months and charted his unraveling. what was his relationship like with his parents? it wasn t anything like childhood neglect or trauma. reporter: but hinckley started to with withdrawl from high school. and they the parent took him to a therapist. at one point, they cut him off. reporter: it backfired. they re kind of dark and anticipatory things in it is compatable with a lonely life. if i wish, the president will fall and the world will look at me in disbelief. reporter: by the end of his evaluation, carpenter concluded that hinckley was legally insane. his official diagnosis? the most suitable one would be schizophrenia. reporter: could the defense convince a jury. the prosecution had their own experts and planned to argue that hinckley was perfectly sane. he was legally sane because he knew it was wrong. partly cloudy he knew he was shooting at humans in a way that could harm them. the trial would be a 7 week battle for the experts, over hinckley was sane or not. upon answers to that question were buried in a remarkable diary and that dateline uncovered. coming up. we uncovered news footage of carter during the election that hinckley was in the crowd. ronald reagan was not hinckley s own target. john hinckley had plans to kill president jimmy carter? yes. when dateline continues. ga, the form of dry degeneration and it can progress faster than you think. when ga stays over your eyes, stay a stand. this is an eye injection that has proven to slow lesion growth with increasing effect over time. it is the only fda treatment to few ga in as few as six doses per year. do not take an infection or active swelling in and around your eye that may cause pain or redness. it can cause in infection, severe inflammation in the retna that could cause vision loss or increase of high pressure. tell your doctor right away if you have any side effects. every moment counts. act now to slow ga with syfovre. i ve been using deodorant for 40 years. i felt like i was not clean or something was wrong with me. and then my dermatology told me about sew my. my bottom has been saved. charmin cleans better with less effort. you see the commercials. you never put viagra for as lit 87 cents. good morning. we have the hour s top stories. a heat dome created dangerously honestly conditions out risk. the temperatures reach triple digit in las vegas and phoenix. it is expected to continue till saturday stretching from california to florida. bill anders was piloting a plane that crashed into the water off washington state. he was 90 years old. now back to dateline. welcome back to dateline. john hinckley junior shot president reagan in a twisted attempt to impress actress jodie foster. and now we have new insight from hinckley himself in a document written in his own hand that after all of these years is seeing the light of day. this is hinckley, diary of a dangerous mind. reporter: on the night he was arrested, hours after trying to kill the president, john hinckley began to keep a day tory. march 30th, 1981, rush to d.c. headquarters and spent hours handcuffs to a desk. he would write it up to and through his trial. the diary is a remarkable insight into hinckley s trouble mind. i have such and empty, sad feeling. where are you jodie. he titled, the diary of a person that we all know. at times it is a chronicle of despair. why go on? i m immortally i am infamous, but i m dead inside. he tried to take his own life. but he seemed to have a moment of clarity of the shooting. there are times that i m sad about the incident. but other times i m satisfied. reporter: he was almost giddie. it will be a miracle, almost a miracle if i m found not guilty. reporter: the damage that hinckley caused it was on people s mind. he could have changed the course of history. yes. this foolish, young man could have changed the course of history. reporter: secret service sergeant mccarthy and president reagan. officer deli that was forced to retire early. but it was brady, where he had severe brain damage and paralysis. nbc news legal analyst. at the time of the hinckley trial, the prosecution had the burden to prove each and every element of the crime, including the defendant s sanity. reporter: the prosecution began by showing jurors footage of the shooting. they argued that he was not sick when he pulled the trigger, just a narcissistic. he told me his goal to be on the cover of time magazine. reporter: the obsession, the prosecutors said it did not prove he was insane. he was interested in committing a crime and fell aupon taxi driver. reporter: hinckley thought that the trial was the perfect stage for his story. jodie, everyone in the whole wide world knows about us. i think what i did was worth it. in the courtroom, the prosecutors argued that hinckley knew exactly what he was doing what he shot the president, that it was a premeditated plan months in the making, and originally with a different target. he actually had been talking the previous president, jimmy carter. reporter: in the fall of 1980, he bought guns and went target shooting and followed carter on the campaign trail. we recovered news footage of carter at different rallies in the fall. reporter: john hinckley had plans to kill president jimmy carter? yes. it just never worked out for him. so he switched his attention to president reagan after he became president. reporter: when it was the defense s turn. they said that his judgment was impaired by schizophrenia elusions. the only meaningful thing in his life was his delusional attachment to jodie foster. he developed the grandiose view of jodie and hims a couple. he felt this is something that everybody should know about, killing carter, killing reagan. he needed something that would cause attention to this. reporter: and his attempts to contact foster was to show them that they were meant to be. he reported a phone call between himself and the actress. i cannot carry on conversations with people that i don t know. reporter: jodie did not appear at trial but she was video week earlier. how would you describe your relationship with john hinckley? i don t have any relationship with john hinckley. her words infuriated him. in his diary that note, he threw a pen at her and shouted, jodie i m still going to kill you. oh, my god, what have i done? what i have done. everyone is angry with me. jodie hates me. i m so famous, but i m so miserable. reporter: would the jury find the him a calculating killer. the verdict would leave the nation outraged. coming up. you were confident that the jurors would see things your way? yes. the jury speaks. to say that the country was surprised is an understatement. what dateline continues. this is the only monthly topical that protects against fleas, tapeworm even more. next guard combo. the monthly one and done that to want. introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with pain reliever. rose sparks engineered for the spontaneous. faster acting and long lasting. grab the moment. get started. frustrated by skin tags? dr. shoals has the break- through that you ve been waiting for in as little as one treatment. is your shower trying to tell you something? is getting in and out of bathtub becoming a safety concern? are you worried about the cost of a bathroom remodel that could go on for weeks and weeks? 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yes. i didn t for a moment it could be the otherwise. by the fourth day, the verdict was in. the verdict on john hinckley, not guilty by reason of insanity turned the country upside down today turned the upside down today. to say that america was shocked by the verdict is an understatement. they were furious. not everyone was up in arms. surprisingly president reagan had found peace with hinckley. my father had forgiven him, a day or so after being shot, he had forgive convenient forgiven him. my mother, on the other hand, she would have killed him if she could have got her hand on him. he entered the final entry in his dairy. it is all over. i m not responsible for shooting the president and three others. what does jodie think now. you re going to a treatment facility. and only when you re better will you be released. hinckley was sent to saint elizabeth hospital in washington d.c. , one of the oldest psychiatrist hospitals in the country. he was put on anti-psychotic drugs. it seemed to trust. john and leslie metro at a halloween party. reporter: she was a fellow patient at st. elizabeth. she wrote about hero man tick relationship with hinckley. leslie was described by neighbors and family, friend and even her ex-husband as a perfect woman and mother and she killed her child. reporter: she was convicted for her crime and sent to the contradict hospital. today the old grounds closed. the buildings abandoned. what was it like when you came here the first time? you know, it was different from it is now. but leslie and john used to communicate from a window, not this building, but a similar one, three floors up where he was. reporter: she was more than a decade holder than hinckley and like him came from an upper background and educated. when she told him who he was, he did not care. she said i did so much worse than he did. i killed my own child. she took her gun and shot her child and then herself. her injuries wore so severe, she amputated her arm. she never understood people s shock for her love with hinckley. people ask why would he have a relationship with him. why would he have a relationship with me? he talked at chaperone events orbit window. by the following year, hinckley was in love and did something that no one ever expected. he proposed. and she accepted. walsh said they became each other s confidants. hinckley trusted her with his darkest moments. he said that he went through the terrible percents of shame and guilt, particularly when he would see brady, the press secretary that he shot. reporter: after three years of treatment, devoluntary was released. but got a job at the hospital, so hinckley still saw her regularly. the staff at the mental hospital condoned this relationship, even supported it? yes, they did because they saw it as a healthy growth. reporter: but they learned that he was in an astonishing relationship with someone else, ted bundy who was on death row. dear john, i think we have something going on here. it is pleasure to find someone i feel comfortable writing. reporter: the secret service discovered that hinckley started the corresponds. dear ted, i read about your new death order and it upsets me because i m against the death penalty and i value you as a friend. reporter: the doctors became more concerned that hinckley was still obsessed with jodie foster and had some 20 photos of her in a room. he considered writing to convicted killer charles manson. despite the letters, after four years, the hospital trusted hinckley enough to let him leave his building and rome the grounds freely. he devoluntary was still engaged and could walk outside together and have privacy. they went up to a little spot on the hill. they did not have sex the first time there, but after that, they did. on the ground. on the ground. a few years later, he went to court to make a bid for more freedom. but would a judge allow a man that stalked two presidents and tried to kill one of them back into society? he should not be able allow to rome around all alone out there. he s a potentially dangerous character. he s proven that. the eye popping gated community where he proposed to live. he played on the tee where former president obama and former president clinton and this fellow is only 50 feet away. when dateline continues. why do we even buy them. i ve had multiple strokes. if you need help remembering something, write it down quickly. no wonder you hate cleaning your gutters. the pattened filter keeps the leaves out of your gutters, guaranteed. they took the time to answer all of our questions. they put us at ease. unclog gutters for good. visit leaffilter.com today. shingles some describe it as a unbearable itch. it could disrupt your work and time with family. debail indicatingdebilitating shingles. good time that you get a break with your flexible payment options. this is the dmvip. vending machine charcuterie. wait till the driving shipping generic viagra for 87 cents. in 1997, john hinckley junior was back in court, this time fighting for a bit of freedom. he spent 15 years at a psychiatric hospital and believed he was a changed man. his parents believed it too. john s demeanor has changed. he s more open, loving person. to them, hinckley was no criminal. he was being treated for mental illness and deserved compassion. he was not a snipper on a rooftop or religious fanatic. he was a pathetic figure that he was trying to impress a movie star that he never met. he wanted permission to visit his family off the hospital ground. hinckley doctors said that his psychosis and depression were in remission and had been for years. i think they observed that he was less preoccupied with the psychotic delusions. reporter: but federal prosecution did not buy it. they believe he was a threat to society. would he go over to her office and chat and talk. and then he started bugging her. he would come every day or call. reporter: the judge denied his request and he lost my chance of leaving the hospital grounds for a long time. but by 2003, he stayed out of trouble for years. his doctors felt he was ready to inch back into society. they began gradually one day out in the city. by 2006, the treatment team had been recommended that he be allowed to stay with his parents for days at a time and the court agreed. the goal of a hospital is to rehabilitate, right? they have no justification to hold him. reporter: but not everyone happy about hinckley s increasing freedom. the home that he retired to was in an upscale community in williamsburg, virginia, overlooking the 14th hole of the kings golf course. that concerned the secret service. in the past few years that played on that tee, president obama, former president clinton. these are the people that played golf in williamsburg, and this fellow is only 50 feet away. reporter: despite the federal prosecute s protest, the judge followed saint elizabeth s recommendation and granted hinckley more and more time with his parents, time that no longer included his fiancee leslie devoe. after 22 years, the relationship was over. do you know why the relationship over? being identified public as his girlfriend was hard for her. the secret service was always coming to her door. it became too much. reporter: hinckley s focus was now solely on being permanently released from saint elizabeth s. in 2016, a judge granted his request. the man that attempted to assassinate president ronald reagan is now free from a mental hospital. hinckley s father had died. so he would live for his 90- year-old mother for at least for a year. not all of hinckley s new neighbors were convinced that was a good idea. bring him here and put him under the care of his 90-year- old mother seems to be a pretty foolish decision. we know medicine is not an exact science. few things are. so i just hope they re right. i m a layperson. i m not a psychologist or psychiatrist. but it doesn t seem to me that people with these kind of severe mental problems are ever really, truly cured. reporter: still, hinckley was not completely free. the secret service would keep an eye on him. and there was a long list of court mandate the rules that he had to follow. among them therapy, medication, limited travel. no media interviews or contact with his victims relatives or jodie foster. but ron reagan was still concerned. my worry is that his narcissistic personality or the will be affronted and he will not get the attention that he feel he s owed and he will act out again in some violent way. reporter: there is greater awareness and empathy in those that suffer from mental illness. but insanity laws are much stricter. states were in a rush to change to insanity defenses. some states instituted guilty, but mentally ill. reporter: in federal course. the burden of proof has shifted to the defense team that must prove that the defendant is insane. if hinckley were tried under the new law, many believe, he would be convicted. do you know what he s doing with himself? he volunteers at a church. he goes on walks. he established a bunch of friends over time. reporter: he got a job of sorts buying and selling and antiques at a low mall. and it appears found romance again. i trust the doctors and the people that have been treating him. i trust their decision. reporter: hinckley childhood friends believe he has earned a second chance and wish him well. i don t expect we ll see him at our high school reunion, i d welcome him. reporter: but president reagan s son believes that the man that tried to assassinate a president, even insane, should not be go free. the crime that he committed was not just a crime another person. it was a crime against a state. the penalty has to be drastic and permanent. reporter: and in 2020, the court relaxed the conditions of hinckley s release, even further. among his new freedoms, he was able to publicly display his artwork and his name. he seemed content. during one of his mental health evaluations, he told doctors, this is the happiest i ve been in my life. i m happy as a clam, to be honest. i really am. be honest. i really am. jr. who four decades after shooting an american president appeared at peace with his past. that s all for this edition of dateline. # thank you for watching. . good morning. and welcome to the saturday edition of morning
Everybody here breathing a sigh of relief that this mission finally got off the launchpad. it s not over yet though, guys, this is a 1011 day mission. they still have to dock with the international space station, and then they have to get back to earth. so a successful start, but it s not over yet there was a press conference, a post launch, preska conference, about two hours ago, and i asked the head of boeing s starliner program what he makes of the last decade in this competition between spacex and boeing ever since nasa doled out these dueling contracts between these two companies to ferry its astronauts up to the international space station. i also asked him about that tweet from elon musk. here s what mark nappi said we don t see it as a competition. we ve got two providers that are going up to the international space station and
Transcripts for MSNBC Deadline White House 20240604 21:19:15 archive.org - get the latest breaking news, showbiz & celebrity photos, sport news & rumours, viral videos and top stories from archive.org Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday newspapers.
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Call 833-leaffilter today or visit leaffilter.com [ growl ] ready for the road trip. call 833-leaffilter today everyone comfortable. yep, there s plenty of space. i ve even got an extra seat. wait! no, no, no, no, no. [ gasps ] [ indistinct chatter ] [ sigh ] let s just wait them out. the volkswagen atlas with three rows of seating for seven. everyone wants a ride. [ snoring ] ok, get in. [ speaking minionese ] yippee!
There s a lot of hard work. it is less economic and much more grit and if you look at this year s champion bruhat soma, one of the things he said is he wanted to take his winnings and donate it to the under-privileged kids who couldn t necessarily afford education. so he definitely represents what our foundation does, which is we want people so to learn, but ultimately we want them to get back how s that feel? you re one of the few understands what these students are feeling now that they get to hoist that trophy, i think we have maybe a picture of you from that era. tell us what you felt it is. you work really hard at something and at the end, when you actually achieve it, you never know if you re really going to be able to do it. you believe you can. but then when it happens, you just breathe the sigh of relief. you probably could see in some of the old videos that ends literally did that so it s really validating. but when we see our kids doing it year over year i know how much work it
we are going to squeeze in a quick break here. when we come back, we will hear donald trump agreeing with me that he could not testify because if he testified, he would have committed perjury. donald trump said that today. you will hear him say it in his own words after this break. own wait! no, no, no, no, no. [ gasps ] [ indistinct chatter ] [ sigh ] let s just wait them out. the volkswagen atlas with three rows of seating for seven. everyone wants a ride. [ snoring ] ok, get in. [ speaking minionese ] yippee! and see despicable me 4 in theaters july 3rd. rated pg. every day, more dog people, and more vets are deciding it s time for a fresh approach to pet food. they re quitting the kibble. and kicking the cans. and feeding their dogs dog food that s actually well, food.
Transcripts for BBCNEWS BBC News 20240604 01:29:15 archive.org - get the latest breaking news, showbiz & celebrity photos, sport news & rumours, viral videos and top stories from archive.org Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday newspapers.
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