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is distinct from that. the thing about i think part of what was extremely prominent about president obama's story, the story that is the kind we like to tell ourselves about what kind of country we live. only in america could this kid go from where he was to go to the white house and i think everyone -- a lot of people felt good about themselves we were the kind of country that produced that. that's not looking like -- even the insurgent -- as you pointed out this is an important point. even one of the big insurgents anti-establishment candidates is just the son of the last insurgent anti-establishment candidate. >> but to go back to the issues, chris, you began by talking -- this is the first real post-citizens united open the slosh gates of big money -- >> without an incumbent. >> what we're witnessing is the corrosion of american democracy and in that we will witness if we don't -- when i say we, i'm talking about independent movements, independent activists, people who want to have a debate that will raise the issues this country needs to

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