[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> members are virtual are responsible. i notice and will notice that we would that you unmeeted yourself [inaudible conversations] >> the secretary of the air force. previously served five years for the department of defense, 2017-- also, welcome back in person this time to the air force, the chief of space operations. this year-- a whole plan to -- a bold plan to diverse systems over the next five years and that's a bold plan and i'm with you on that and then there is the wave of nuclear modernization which is placing pressure on modernizing conventional forces, this pressure will continue throughout the current five-year plan and beyond. this result is that the air force is trading near-term capacity for what hopefully will be successful investments and capabilities needed to meet the growing challenge from china. and as president biden stated this week, this administration is tackling inflation. as the rest of the services, department of air force is not immune to inflation, but i know you gentlemen will be carefully scrutinizing how we can keep costs down in your budget and make sure any inflation is truly inflation to the requests that are being made. the fy23 budget ask for space force reflects an increase of 30% over the fy22 enacted level. now, some of this growth is due to the establishment of a new military account, planned to be transferred to the space development agency into space force. however, even after adjusting for these transfers, space force budget is substantial. with these increases comes more responsibility to spend the fund effectively and efficiently to deliver operational useful capabilities. we would like an update on the progress made on fixing space ak acquisition and bringing greater systems on schedule and within the budget. i'd also like to congratulate mr. frank who was recently confirmed by the senate to serve as assistant secretary of the air force who will serve as the first ever space acquisition executive. we really welcome his expertise and we wish him well. i'd like to take a second to thank the men and women who serve under your command in the air force and space force for their diligence and hard work in service to our country. i'd like to note for members, that we will be holding a classified briefing with secretary-general immediately after as i have to announce, depending on this after this hearing. i'd like to turn to ranking member calvert for his opening remarks. >> mr. calvert. thank you, madam chair, i want to thank each of our witnesses for appearing before us today. we're grateful for your continued service and those under your command and i look forward to working with of you, to properly equip them. we see rapid threats and changes, and capable addverssrees. and they've looking at capable platforms like the f-22. awacs and how we can make the threat environment with reduced inventory and pleased to see the space force continue to grow its capabilities, as we on the subcommittee know nearly all of our military operations rely on a continued dominance in space. general raymond, i look forward to hearing how you are working to right size and shape the force. throughout this year, we've heard testimony from our geographic combatant commanders, i continue to be extremely concerned that the services and the air force in particular are failing to prioritize the war fighting needs of our counsel. like the three of you, i'm advocate for acceleraing change and risk to do so. i'm encouraged by the manufacturing and software first approach you're taking for the next generation systems. however, we cannot overlook the needs for untested and unproven systems. hope is not a planning strategy as my old man used to say and certainly will not enable a response to any type of conflict that way break out around the globe. before i close, my concern how infla i gos-- inflation is eating into the buying power. they're the worst we've seen in decades and worse, we don't know what it will be once bee pass the fy23 bill. sharp price increases in fuel, shipping costs and other consumer goods will have a disastrous effect on your ability to train. i'm a big supporter of the use of augmented and virtual reality training, but pilots need to fly real missions against real pilots. i saw the air force just canceled the large contract for adversarial air. i would like you to get me the justification for this and your training replacement plan going forward. as you know, on june 30th, 2020, my constituent, lieutenant david schmidt tragically loss his life. david's death is what we risk with limited training hours and limited training. there's more work to make sure this doesn't happen again and our service members don't pay the price for a shrinking budget. it's critical that we have adequate resources to fully fund weapons systems, operations and training. and thank you again for taking the time to be with us, and with that, madam chair, i'll yield back. >> thank you. ms. granger, as ranking full member of the committee would you like to make an opening statement? >> thank you, chair. i want to thank each of the witnesses for appearing before us today. i look forward to hearing from you about how the air force and space force are preparing for both current and future conflicts. i want to begin by restating my serious concern about the inadequacy's defense spending. inflation is dramatically on the budget proposal fails to provide the funds needed to maintain and modernize our military. looking at this year's request, it's clear that the air force wants to retire older systems to fund new ones this needs to be done in a thoughtful manner. we must be prepared for future conflicts and we should not do what that is in our current needs. as the war in ukraine has shown us, it's critical of the united states as war fighting inventory that's flexible, capable and ready and we must protect our strategic advantages in the air and space. as we develop this year's bill. i look forward to working with all of you to ensure that our airmen and guardsmen have the tools they need to fulfill our national defense strategy. thank you again for taking the time to be with us today and thank you, madam chair, i yield back. >> thank you. gentlemen, we have your full testimony in front of us and members have copies of it made available to them. i'd like to have as much time as i have for members to ask your questions. so i would encourage you to please summarize your statements and i want you to be complete as you can be. and also when it comes to responding to our questions. i'd like to now proceed with the testimony, beginning with secretary kendall. >> thank you, chairman. ranking member and members of the committee. and i'm glad to have them joining me to represent the 7,000 guardians that defends our nation. we're thankful for your support over the years. speaking in 1940, general douglas macarthur said the following, the history of failure in war it almost be summed up in two words, too late. too late in comprehending the deadly purpose of a potential enemy, too late realizing mortal danger, too late in preparedness, too late standing with one's friends after france fell to nazi germany's offensive. and the attack on pearl harbor drew the united states into a war. and what my colleagues are trying to do and need your help with is to ensure america's air and space forces are never too late in meeting our challenge, which is china. we're concerned about the now obvious and acute threat of russian aggression. i'd like to offer the committee on the hill, that china poses more completely. i'll be summarizing that in our classified session later today. that briefing lays out china's efforts to devolve forces that can defeat the u.s.'s power in the western pacific and increasing nuclear opportunity that puts our homeland at risk. and how the air force is responding to that threat. through our fiscal year 2023 budget and through future budgets, a balance between the capabilities we need today and investments in the tran transformation. and we'll be able to support our combatant commanders and continuing campaigns that represent our resolve and our partners around the world. simultaneously, our budget represents a significant early step in the transformation of the air and space forces to the capabilities needed to provide during advantage. and an important feature of our budget request is a you be is standings increase in research and involvement funding. this investment is a down payment of production that's the same in investments and hard choices that are yet to come. we're comfortable with the balance on the budget submission and we want to ensure the committee understands that hard choices lie ahead at any budget level. we're asking for devestiture, and not against the facing challenge. she is devestments are -- divestments are necessary. and we appreciate the committee's port for the devestitures and we ask for those and change is hard, but losing is unacceptable and we cannot afford to be too late. the work we have ongoing on the department of the air force is focused on seven operational imperatives, each of which is associated with some aspect of our ability to evoke power. acts of aggression do occur and equally no doubt how devastating for the victims of that aggression and for the global community. first, if the space force is to enable its mission of the projecting the force, it must have the space arrange architecture, and we have resilient tracking and communication networks. second, efficiently integrate air and space forces as part of a highly lethal joint force for a federal management system. this budget continues for the early ongoing work that will define additional divestments to modernize our command and control communications. and third, to defeat aggression we must have the ability to hold large numbers of air and surface targets and a time compressed scenario. this funds an interim replacement. fourth our control of the air is challenged and we must proceed to affordable next generation dominance of systems. fifth. >> a resilient tactical air force. this budget continues for agri in the european reasons. assure long-term viability of our global strike capability. within this budget b-21 enters production. the department must be able to a war time posture against a competitor. and we work to ensure that america's air and space forces are never too late. one team, one fight, we welcome your questions. >> thank you very much. mr. secretary. and now general brown, please proceed. >> good morning, chair, ranking members. it's an honor to appear before you representing the service members today. and thank you for your continued support of them and their families. and the fy2023 budget. and addressing the security challenges particularly in the national defense strategy that continues to build on bigots of -- that continues to build on the fy22. if we do not continue to transform this may no longer be the case. we must continue to communicate and corroborate with key stake holders, what the nation needs for 2030 and beyond. the message has not changed from 2023. you must modernize for count ser strategic competitors and the challenges, russia remains an acute threat. balance demends of the day and requirements are tomorrow it puts soldiers, sailors, marines, guardians and airmen and partners at risk. it places our aability to place air power anytime at risk. in the air force and the nation will be successful between today and tomorrow is collaborate. collaborate is the critical word. we're beginning our collaboration efforts towards the transition for the future. this is to restructure and investment in systems and and concepts, we've been successful for systems that are incre increasingly for the threats. we did not do this alone. starting changes and impetus behind the air force operation, doing so with urgency and in the right direction. when you combine the operation and the national defense strategy you see in this year's budget is alignment with what our nation demands of our air force. the air force we have is integrated deterrence, nuclear deterrence assures budgets and our nuclear portfolios are fully funded. how air forces campaign, deployed air force assets within days, sharing vital information with our partners. during the advantages that allow us to defend the homeland, project our power globally and joint allied and partner force. more than anyone, i want tomorrow's airmen to be ready when responsibility calls. as united states air force celebrates its 75th anniversary this year. we will be one that they're proud of. i'm certain that we'll need air power anytime anywhere and certain this year's budget is another step to transformation of the air force and i'm certain there is more work that needs to be done therefore communicate, collaborate so we can ak set rate-- accelerate change. thank you for the opportunity to be with you today. >> thank you. general raymond, please proceed. >> -- it's an honor to appear. thank you for your continued leadership and strong support of guardians and their families. as we testify before you today we find our self at a strategy inflection point. russia and challenge from china. information derived from space, including commercial imagery has been instrumental in dominating the information environment, communicating with forces and detecting missile threats. it's clear that the character of war has changed and space is foundational to that change. however, russia's recent direct anti-satellite missile test last november is just the latest efforts to deny what space provides. and just as china is integrating space into military operations to detect, track, target, strike the joint force putting our sailors, soldiers, marines, and guardians in air and sea at risk. our joint forces will remain at risk until we can complete the transformation to resilient space architecture and protect the joint force from space from attacks. this is critical to supporting all aspects of the national defense strategy, intergreated deterrents, campaigning and building enduring advantage. to remain the world's leader in space, this president's budget requests prioritizes space and 24.5 billion to assure access to and freedom to maneuver in space. the largest share is research and testing evaluation fund, almost 16 billion for our forces, to pivot to more resilient missile warning and missile tracking force design. normally this including funding for the space development agency which is included in the space force budget for the first time this year. in contrast to legacy, this is to survive gracefully under attack. manage escalation and be rapidly reconstituted. and this transformation will allow us to focus more fully on two of our advantages, our commission industries and allies and partners. to increase readiness, we have operational test and training infrastructure. that assures the capability in orbit in the hands of operating in a contested domain. robust testing is critical to fueling our next generation systems. other key investments, including for weapons systems sustainment and global positioning systems and next generation satellite and communication. and finally and importantly we invest in guardians and their families and we've overhauled how we recruit, divest, deploy and take care of guardians. resilient space power isn't just about satellites, it's also about guardians. this is one of the reasons why we're seeing the integration of active duty and resever of forces into a single hybrid component structure. this component is central to our human capital plan and allows us to divest, and working with this committee for this bold and transformational post. and the secretary mentioned changing heart and losing is unacceptable. this is essential to protecting the joint force and for the security and space. thank you for your leadership and support of our space force. it's an honor to appear before you and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you all. for members who have just come in we're going to adhere to the five minute rule as we don't know when folks are going to be called for, all of us asking questions today. gentlemen, as you know delivering space systems on time and on budget has been a challenge for quite some time. an example, gps ground control segment. more than six years late and 70% over budget. gps hand sets for war fighters behind schedule. the system was delivered nine years late and $15 billion over budget. so fixing acquisitions, one of the primary reasons why the space force was created. so secretary kendall, you and i will have an opportunity to talk later today so i'm going to focus on space force. we need to make sure the overall space force five-year budget is executable and affordable. the next five-year budget estimate is basically flat, rising a bit in 2024 before falling below the 2023 proposed budget level. secretary kendall and general brown, do you feel that the fy23 request and then the out year projections reflect what will actually take to deliver successful acquisitions and programs? there are significant budget shortfalls that you're an i wear of over the next few years and if so, what programs can be put at risk. space force believes it could carry out the flat budget, reprioritizing current activities and if so, what would you prioritize? >> secretary kendall, and then general raymond. >> it's a great question. i think it's a very perceptive one. the transformation that i talked about and the difficult choices are related to what you just asked me. we are starting a transformation of our capabilities in space with the missile warning, ak tch architectures and we're work to go define the other needs, both to provide the services and enable the joint force in space and also to protect the joint force from possible attack, based on targeting by our enemies in space. we have a lot of work to do there, but we're off to a solid start. i do not anticipate that future budgets will remain flat or go down for the space force, quite the opposite. we still have the define the requirements and programs we put in place are for success and we don't have cost overruns. we want to avoid that. there are opportunities through emerging technologies and commercial best practices that i think will make that possible, but we are going to have to be disciplined and smart how we invest in space. i think that's the picture that we see coming, okay? at this point, i think the 23 budget does a good start. gives us a good start towards those types of architectures and gives us the resources and decide what steps we need to take. >> yes, ma'am, i agree wholeheartedly with secretary kendall. we've still got work to do. and we've got a great force design and the department around the force design and we have to acquire it. if we acquire this force design the same way legacy systems, it would be unaffordable. we have to change the way we do business and central to that is modernize our acquisition system. you had mentioned previous, the previous-- the current constellation and overruns on current programs and next gen is on schedule, and met the performance parameters and key parameters and 25 months ahead of the average time is takes from start to launch of a program. we we are keeping laser focused on this to make sure we can deliver on a cost and time that's critical to our nation. >> thank you, gentlemen. i'm impressed with your enthusiasm that you're going to be on time, on target, on budget, but i do have-- i do have some concerns, especially as both the ranking member and i brought up inflation, inflation is i'm sure baked into this budget, but inflation in general doesn't mean across the board increase and i appreciate your due diligence making sure that when we have contracts and concerns about inflation that we're counting right things in the right basket for inflation and not just taking across the board increases. so, we will follow up with some more questions for the record. for right now i thank you and members, i'm yielding back time. mr. calvert. >> thank you, madam chair. general brown, you were aware of my disagreements with the -- if seems when you do not want to keep an aircraft in your inventory, you label is not survivable without clearly describing what had a means to divest it. i understand if we were in a kinetic war with china that it would not be able to collect qsr in adversarial territory. most of the world is -- co-comes and desperately need isr. every combatant commander i talk to wants more isr and specifically the mq9. i'd like four questions for you to answer. one, could you put more context and specifics into the term survivability? ... it refuses any value. i can see value in a mix of the fourth and fifth generation platforms so how do you explain the air force different positions on these platforms? finally, if the air force position is to maintain the current fleet until 2030 and then retire them, when what is replacement be prototyped, tested and then fielded? >> appreciate the question. let me put it all in context. there's a mix of capabilities where bringing forth. really brought across air force the air force is in high demand, and he speak to them quite often. as you look at this particular budget, they will get transferred to in a government transfer. the will be no impact to the combatant commanders, maintain the number of combat lines insane things with -- >> why do they disagree with that? >> you know, i know they are demanding customers but we are providing them the isr that we do have. this is where i begin, the air force is in high demand. as far as their needs. there's a balance the needs between what the combatant commands that only -- and put the survivability some context i can talk to you more in a classified session on specifics of these platforms so there will be a mix of persistent. we will continue have them in our inventory. versus the fourth and fifth generation are just like the mix on a fight or flight between fourth and fifth of june will have the same kind of mix with our isr platforms. you'll have platforms in some of our bigger wings with the other classified programs, more times to talk about in the classified session. there is a balance between the current fleet today and the fleet will have to have in future progress balance it. we've been up against it for the past 30 years particularly in the middle east. the threats we face in the future and were facing today are less permissive which why we have to a mix. particularly the people's republic of china. >> i would point out not just the middle east but africa is permissive, south america is permissive. 90% of the globe is. also when we take a look at the cost differential between so-called survivable isr versus not survivable insignificant so we need to look at that and determine whether or not that risk is really worth it. both the short-term and long-term. so i look forward to working with you on that but as you know i disagree with your basic premise. >> this is an area where we don't do this -- part of this is levels of analysis to make sure to the best of her barely get the right mix but it happy to work with you and the rest of the committee and be able to talk to in more detail about it, our approach particularly is look at the classified sessions for one last point. as you know the marine corps is buying more for indopacom. so obviously they believe they can't count on air force to provide that service which is really frustrating to me. because in the beginning of this air force was going to run all the isr and the cia had to do it and the army had to do it now a marine corps is going to do it. it should've been, quite frankly, all under one umbrella of the united states air force but obviously that genie is out of the bottle. thank you, madam chair. you'll back. >> mr. ruppersberger. you are recognized. >> in recent years the space development agency, sda, has accelerated its pursuit of low-earth orbit constellations. i believe the proliferation of illegal satellite constellation is critical to our nation's future efforts in data communication, missile defense, projectile navigation and battlefield operations in war. now, as space forcefully absorbs sda in fiscal year 2023, how does your budget ensure that we maintain the authorities and efficiencies we need and sd to remain on track for their important program? >> thank you for the question. i, too, believe proliferation of low-earth orbit and satellite consolation is critical, the cornerstone is exactly that. the space to build an agency has helped inform that. they've been working side-by-side with us as we bring sda in, very capable as, prototypes are included in this. the way secretary kendall has worked with our any, the parent of sda, we have treated them like like a part of our team. we are integrating them and we want to bring the men as they are to give them the flexibility to be able to operate and then will provide support to make sure they stay lean and efficient and go fast. >> okay. secretary kendall, now that we are more than two years in how do you assess the department air force management of buildings and integrating the space force? and what hard budget decisions digest to make in fy '23 to ensure we maintain our advantage in the space domain? >> i realize it's a broad question mcgivney a shot. >> overall, i'm very happy with what i inherited as a gimmick office about a year ago. i think general raymond and his team of done a fantastic job. they have really laid out path forward to acquire capabilities and also dealing with what we need to do to protect the joint force from targeting from space from our adversaries. we are on the right track and we've made good steps in the right direction but there's tremendous amount of work still to be done. we have to define the rest of the architectures were voting for space services and with a number of things anyway will talk about in classified that are important as well. one of the key things when you to do is work close with intelligence community to ensure that the isr which came up earlier in hearing that we need for space is provided effectively from space. it needs to support operational force were working in close collaboration with intelligence community to define requirements that need both of our needs and the systems that will do that as well. so that's a work in progress and that's one of the things that we will be addressing into budget and future submissions. >> there's a lot of debate whether we should do, when we shouldn't do it, a lot of debate. we need to stand behind. >> we, the space force? >> yes. >> absolutely, congressman. >> stand behind it, whatever -- >> fully committed to making it a success. >> we feel the same way. i think. yield back i think we all want space force to be a huge success. we are next going to hear from ms. granger and then mr. keller. >> commander of the european command testified about the incredible capabilities of the f-35 deployed in the region. however, the budget request reduce the number of f-35s the air force ones to buy. secretary kendall can you please explain the reduced number in your request and if the air force is still committed to the f-35 and to what degree? >> i'll answer the second part first. absolutely committed to the f-35. the cornerstone of her fighter fleet and will be for many years to come. people asked me if were committed to the program. 15 years in production and expect will be in for another 15 years. the reduction we took this year and probably extended to next year space a number of factors. there were a number thinks you need to do in the portfolio. one of them was to buy out the remaining number of inventory that we need. for the capabilities the f-15 will provide. we want to increase the funding for the next generation of air dominance, follow along to the f-22. we have of the programs we need to move forward as well. we also are very interested in getting the block four tip of loser f-35 and the contractor has been late and delivering them so far so we want to see evidence he will be able to come to ship before we increase the production. that was a major factor as well. >> thank you. >> is the gentlewoman yielding back doesn't gentlewoman have another question? mr. keller. >> thanks, madam chair, a for being with us. i was hoping to quickly cover to topics. secretary kendall as you know their mobility command is the critical background of our nation's respond to go with it. refill it is a major partner were fortunate to have both air refueling wing on other e of my state in spokane. despite its critical role the 140 first air refueling wing still operates as a? associate without kc-135. as the air force brings more kc-46 into service does he air force exploring options every line casey 135 steers like the 141st to write adequate capability for the air force? >> we are in the process of assessing where it will be based with remainder of the fleet that we currently have we project. we are constantly looking at that basing for cost of force basically. one of the things we do pay attention to is there's been rumors about a political interest in retaining capability. one of the things were asking people to look at is that flying capability isn't always the best thing for you to have. there are other capability such as cyber the we need as well. a lot of are older aircraft are going to be retired. kc-135 served us very well but i was on one recently and that is a very old airplane. we will be bring you down going through the total number of tankers modestly. it's a request we have for the committee but you're going to recapitalize that fleet and we are going to come to do that. tankers are an important part of her for structure but not the only thing that's important. with the bowels a lot of things as we do our for the future. >> the other thing i wanted to quickly touch on was just housing. i know that you're dealing with issues related to recruitment and retention of service members with seen across the country a big spike in the cost of single-family homes, in my neck of the woods it's gone up 24% from last year. rent is up about 19% since the beginning of the pandemic. that affects everybody but particularly servicemembers and some like siblings can't choose where they live and have to do with increasingly competitive housing market. i of what the dot for increasing the basic allowance for housing. the meaning of bishop budde is clearly not enough that tos hoping you could talk about what is being done to ensure that servicemembers can afford rent or purchase a house at the new duty station and whether you are exploring ways to increase on-base housing options as well. >> what we're looking at all sorts of ways to address thi. what happened as you indicated is the cost of housing has gone up dramatically and quickly. secretary austin is concerned about this. we've had numerous conversations about it. we are taking steps to in some places increase base cost for housing out of cycle if you will and we need the support of the committee is a go forward particularly as inflation continues making adjustments at interim periods, notches on an annual basis. something we're tracking very carefully. we are trying to make sure we maintain the quality of our onboard, on-base housing as well. that's an important thing. >> thank you. thank you, madam chair. i will yield back. >> thank you. thank you members for being so considered of everyone. mr. cole and then ms. kilpatrick. >> they give a much combative chew. gentlemen, great to have you. i want to begin by just associating myself with remarks of the ranking member both full committee and the subcommittee about this concerns about to the suture and about the overall size of the budget. i just frankly with all due respect to low in the kind of work were living in today. i suspect that will be something full committee answer in the subcommittee will struggle with going forward. an example of this are one of my concerns is number one, want to begin come coppa you, thank you for beginning to replace our airborne early warning and control systems their way out of date, old, aging but i'm a little worried about speed with which you are retiring p3s. these are again we haven't had this drink the obama years covering over talking to the chief then he said look on having to cannibalize planes i don't want to give up to keep planes flying that i need to understand that i would get we should never put you in that the limit. i think you're in it again right now. these are-and assets from combatant commander standpoints. giving idea how your balancing this? i'm worried we retiring capabilities we need right now, not have them will need them right now and, frankly, probably not have enough as much on the other side of this as we would like to have thank you, congressman. we have a gap today in airborne early warning capability. current awacs are not related to the to do with the threats we are currently facing. it's difficult to maintain them. their availability rate is less than 50%. what we hope to do by retiring 15 this year is to build increased the availability of balance, a couple ways is we transfer people over to aircraft to do maintenance on them and also parts available from you aircraft we are retiring. what we need to do is accelerate the capability we need which is the e7 and get that as quickly as possible. there are limited possibilities to disappear to take such figures to years to get the new airplanes we're going to be modified and another two years to modify them. we're looking at crete of ways to try to settle with the process and reduce the risk in it. we're all aware of this as an important party for the air force. we're trying to do everything we can. >> i appreciate that but this is not like the kc-135 with hundreds of them. 15 out of 32, and then saying we will have capability for years out is really high risk. you are going up a time where you simply don't have the aircraft you need for early warning and control. >> the problem is we don't have aircraft we need today. the awacs read today not adequate for the threat speed is totally agree. in making this argument for years. again i pray she for that. i think you're right to be beating on new capability. what i worry about is losing over the next four years, , four years as a long time, and i've watched, i get i rather replace capability as it comes on, retired aircraft but this idea of retiring this mini nap and hoping we'll what we need in four years is a big risk to me. and once i think is not wise to take. again, we are putting you in that spot, and my view, by not getting the budget that you need to add capabilities or replace capabilities in a timely fashion. but anyway, just to be honest with you i see that throughout the budget. and again i put the blame that on us on you. we've stretched some of these platforms way too long. you're exactly right on things like the kc-135 or things like -- we should've done this a long time ago but retiring them to quickly now i think is a risk and i would rather risk give you more resources and bring on capabilities than sort of retiring to bring on as opposed where we have time we drop 32 planes down to 17 or so. i don't see how you could meet the needs you have from your combatant commanders if we made that kind of decision. i suspect he see that again in the area after area because where the ranking member was that with her concerns on f-35 same thing. i don't have a lot of time and i want to follow good example set by others, madam chair, so i will yield back. >> thank you. ms. kilpatrick then followed by mr. womack. >> thank you, madam chair, and thank you to all of the witnesses. secretary kendall and general brown, , as you are well aware,y district is home to the largest concentration of a-10 aircraft in the world -- air force base. these uniquely capable aircraft have been called upon time and time again to deliver incredibly effective close air support in a way that no other platform has been able to do. saving countless allies lives in the process. the budget request proposes and investment of the fleet to 260 airplanes, but the budget document make clear that the air force only intends on procuring wing replacement jets for a fleet size of no more than 218 aircraft. you both of indicated that you do not believe there will be many viable -- for the a-10 in the near future. this is something we have heard from the air force for more than a decade, and that the a-10 continued to be called upon. the security situation in ukraine, which is largely -- was designed for by the way, demonstrates that the world is an incredibly dangerous and unpredictable place. i was glad to read this week that a-10s are deploying to eastern europe to support the swift response exercise. and is going for utility there. i was also glad to read this week that the air force has determined that the a-10, and in particular, this unique gun system, is capable of destroying even the most modern armor in contested environments. with the air force his own press release stating, quote, the a-10 is well-suited for agile combat employment rolls, and this test proves the a-10 can continue to deliver massive rapid firepower with devastating effects on any vehicles in in a contested environment, end quote. clearly, there remains a mission for the a-10 beyond counterinsurgency. so my question for secretary kendall and general brown, do you agree that new wing sets must be procured in order to keep these aircraft flying into the 2030s? >> mr. secretary, i will give you an additional 30 seconds beyond which of the adjutant and then we will go to the next question. >> car plan with the a-10 this year is to remove 21 aircraft and replace them with f-16s in indiana. so relatively modest request this you. over time so we do intend to divest the a-10s. we do want to re-wing airplanes that we intend to do best in the not-too-distant future. i'm an army officer, former army officer and a big proponent of close air support and i been a fan of the a-10 for almost my entire career. the problem is it's an old aircraft that was designed for an environment that is not the one we are most concerned about now. it was designed to be very survival against ground fire in particular. it is not survivable against modern threats. look at are facing challenges we will have to get on to our next generation capability and unfortunate the a-10, this is not a cost reflective platform in that in private. let me ask general brown just a bit more about that. >> that's an area when we think about the a-10 we got to be able to take threat before it becomes of it i can tell you from experience when i was combatant of the united states and chagrined when the russian schemata suit with the movie operations for the a-10 because it could to protect themselves from the fighter aircraft so there's aspects concerning the threat that drives the reason why we're making a move away from the a-10 and to a portfolio fighter capability, it's multiple and is a work with our combatant commanders and talk to them i know they are exercising right now but aspect of what the want on a recurring basis is multiple capability, particularly evening centcom today as i talk to the new centcom commander. it's a transition to a more for portfolio that is -- we see today and threats we expect to see in the future. >> thank you very much. thank you to the witnesses, and madam chair, i yield back back. my time has expired. >> thank you. mr. womack and then ms. kaptur. >> thank you, madam chair. generals, thank you for your service to our great country and the work that you are doing presently to the distinguished secretary. i want you to know that you are not alone that first week in november, even though you are situated between two air force generals. that when you try to channel that in her black night loyalty that i'll be with you, i have had your back. >> thank you, congressman. >> football aside, i would like to just ask your question about the bridge tanker program. i know is a program you are tracking close to come one you've been asked about and your other hearings on the hill. i knew the air force is not determined the requirements yet for this bridge tanker. can you share with us when you expect the requirements to be finalized and what agency is looking at in developing these requirements? a critical piece of our national defense strategy. >> thank you, congressman. we are looking at what our operational needs will be going forward and what the cost-effectiveness will be with various options. key to that is what we need operationally first. air mobility command was isg at that, evaluating what class of tanker in terms of capacity range and so on will be the best in the mix as a go forward. at one time looked as if we would be moving towards platform with significant different from the casey 146. that is not at all clear at this point back i've been very clear with people about the fact that the likelihood of the competition has diminished as begun to understand requirements better. we're not through that process yet. we should be making a decision later this calendar year on exact with the path forward will be. what is transparent as possible about what the situation is. there is no decision at this point in time. >> i share some of the same concerns my colleagues in oklahoma mr. cole, particularly were concerns the e3 awacs program. but generally speaking i have concerns about aircraft readiness. when you look across the spectrum of our aerial platforms, mission capable rates are they concerned cod another big concern to the force as a whole. ironically enough, i might be wrong but it think the a-10 probably has mission capable rate that is higher than a lot of other platforms. but i do support the divestiture targets that you're looking at for terms of efficiency and need, and he be able to free up resources to address some of our other needs. how does a fy '23 budget process request, address this issue, and what are your overall goals and expectations for some of these numbers moving forward? >> we're working to increase and improve their capability of aircraft. i talk about balance a opening statement, trying to balance current capabilities which is a function of what resource we put into that versus resources we put into other things that are important to us. we struck the reasonable balance, trying to meet the need to work with combatant commanders around the world, try to focus in particular on the facing challenge in indo-pacific region but also with developments in europe where having to basically make sure we are capable there as we can be as was support ongoing requirement in other places. so i look at all that, try to make sure we can maintain that forward present and capability as well as surge capability that might be needed. at the same time we are investing in the future. you think with a balance about and right place at this point in time but we're always looking for ways to improve. let me ask general brown at a few words to that. >> that's the analysis we do and we do a number of really focus on the analysis to look at what we project the threat to be but also how we balance between what the combat commissioning. as a top to combatant commanders, talk about balancing risk overtime. it's the risk we take today with combatant commanders, i shall get the future the risk we take in the future. how do you balance that so you don't why don't all a risk here today and that actually when we get to future with a lot more risk. that's part of the conversation we had as we move forward. >> i share my same concerns with -- look, this problem is on you and it's really from us, that if you believe that we need to increase the spending so we can buy down some of that risk. and so that will be different than a lot of us will continue to fight going forward. but i do appreciate the service to your great country and thank you so much and w back my time. >> thank you. ms. kaptur and then mr. carter. >> thank you, madam chair, very much. gentlemen, thank you for your great service to our country. secretary kendall, i wanted to just ask you a question in terms of the current conflict in europe come with russia's war on ukraine. has the air force both in terms of regular as well as the guard been integrated in a manner that allows access space that may exist on cargo flights that are going over to europe anyway, be made available to you managing groups in our country that are attempting to get good to their, for example, rotary, there are many humanitarian groups, church groups, hospitals and so forth. it's so expensive by air. have you been asked to identify flights that a going over anyway way that might take goods into some of our allies and then as sure that it gets into you can? >> i'm not aware of that. we can check and take that for the record general brown, our activities have already been supporting the activities and as you were the president has provided a lot of aid to ukraine. defense department has been very active in providing that and moving it over to europe. we've had a lot of flights going for that purpose. i'm not aware the extent to which there may be additional capacity that wasn't used that could be used for the purpose you describe but it sounds like a reasonable thing for us to be doing. i would have to take it for the record to see what could be done there. >> i really appreciate that. >> i'm not aware of any request so far but we are willing to take hard to get that he where we can assist. >> there are certain assets sitting on the ground all over this country, and i appreciate your interest in looking at that. if someone could get back to me at some point i would be very grateful for that. thank you very much. i wanted to ask general raymond, you have to stand up something brand-new, that's really hard. i wanted to ask you as you look at where the space force is currently across the country both in terms of physical space as well as human infrastructure, is a largely centered on one of the coast, like east coast? is or anything in the great lakes? could you give us a sense of what that looks like across the country? not specific locations but just in joe. >> thank you, and i have supposed to stand up the space force and i'm proud of that team. largely with space being a global domain you have to give up those around the globe to be able to operate. in conus we operate in about six big hubs from california to the east coast. we have got california, colorado, a couple different places in colorado, florida, new mexico some of the big hubs. we a smaller sites station in northern california, cape cod, north dakota, clear, alaska. we are global in europe so were a global enterprise. again in very small numbers, 8400 active-duty folks by the end of this year but it is a global presence. >> i would just like to see n terms of ohio, the home of john glenn and neil armstrong, the great lakes always seems to get left out and it just making a plea. i can't make anything happen in the city, i've tried a long time but just pay attention to the great lakes. look at the number of investments that come from our region, for each of you. and i know about -- i'm just saying as we move forward don't forget us. you don't have to respond. >> i won't forget you and we do rely heavily on the folks at right path as well. one of the big benefits that we received, quantifiable benefits we received instant of space force is our ability to attract talent. more people knocking on the door from around the world, around the country and we can take. we will make sure we keep a close eye and getting the right force. >> thank you very much. i had i have to make other y briefly. i wonder in terms of the reduction in requests for f-35, privileged to represent the 180 by doing wing which is a national guard unit that is always wore ready in the toledo, ohio. i'm just wondering whether or not that unit is still on the list for consideration for f-35s. it was in the past in view of the fact that you're suggesting that the procurement be reduced. >> ms. kaptur, you wanted your other questions so they can take it for the record? >> yes, and also some book , brook research for hypersonic missile activities. >> we will take those for the record. >> mr. carter and then mr. cris mr. crist. >> thank you, madam chairman. secretary general, since world war ii midway dominated airspace in our wars -- [inaudible] we political leaders and citizens are fully aware of the progress going on in china. in your opinion, a fight tonight and the future as they go through these process changes, i we going to be able to dominate airspace so that we can win, fight and win, in a fight tonight? >> no potential adversary of the trend should doubt for a moment the capability or the result of the united states or the capacity of the united states air force to do what it will be asked to do. the most formidable fighting machine on the planet but we are being challenged and we are being challenged for effectively. the threat briefing i talked about earlier lays out the ways in which we are being challenged. so we have to move as quickly as we can. there's no doubt about that. the chinese have been watching the american way of projecting power since first goal for 30 years ago and he spent the last 20 or 30 years investing things designed to defeat the united states. so we have to respond to that. as general mattis said rep took subtly change or we will lose and that's exactly accurate statement and thus will try to do with the budget 23 is to affect some of that change. you want to add anything? >> the one thing i would also add is the quality of airmen. subtly equipment with put in their hands but it's hard work they do they in a debt to ensure we can do with the nation's assets and i'm very confident that we can do that. by the same token though i do know it put ourselves in a position where we have any doubt. this is why we want to make the transition into the future. >> as a look at what's going on in the world, we are seeing a lot of people coming based on what happens in ukraine will have an influence on whether china decides to invade taiwan, which will put the fight over in the pacific. and being in charge of helping out the heavy army, it's my job, we have to dominate the airspace for our army to be effective. we have fighters here and they know that. therefore, i am worried about the drawdown. i think that's the first question that mr. calvert asked, as we drawdown, i read through that next question that you all submitted, look like you just taking down an awful lot of platforms in the hopes of a get to the future quickly. our history is we don't. i would say would you take a look at the f-35, how long it took to get it there, and many, many other platforms. historically, we view -- bogged down in a force of by some of the ways we procure, go forward. we're going to drawdown in anticipation of being able to dominate the future, raise great concern to me. depending on, that question is going to stand for the next five or six years, thank you. >> thank you, mr. carter. mr. crist and then mr. rogers. >> thank you, madam chair, very much. mr. secretary, as we see powerful storms and more more frequent flooding in fact, a military installations, i am concerned about the effects of climate change on our security and our readiness. we have recent catastrophic flooding and wind when it t offutt air force base in nebraska, and tyndall air force base in my state of florida. many of the facilities like mcdill air force base in tampa bay nearby district face a risk i wonder if you could talk about the threats posed by extreme weather events and what we are doing to respond to them. >> congressman, you give two great examples of the effect, often, tyndall air force base, also there are others write what we see and implications of more extreme weather. we're trying to take that into account in our plans to ensure that we are as resilient as possible. there are also of the effects of climate change around the world which would change behaviors and patterns around the world to change our threat environment that we have to operate in. there are a wide number of effects of the department department is aware of this and is trying to plan for as best as we possibly can. >> thank you thank you . i will yield back. >> thank you. next is mr. rogers and then mr. aguilar, and then we will end with mr. aderholt. >> secretary kendall, general brown, general raymond, thank you for your service to the country and for being here today with us. since putin put his finger on the nuclear button, has that changed how our nuclear posture in any way? >> congressman, the short answer is no. we've maintain a posture which we think is adequate given the threat situation. but we are being, paying a great deal of attention to president putin and the potential for something to happen there. it is a concern were watching. >> are posture has not changed or i'm very proud of airmen in the work they do they in a out to maintain our nuclear posture. we also whatever close with the united states strategic as well as air force global strikes which is operational commanders to have that responsibility to ensure airmen are trained and equipped to support our portal to make sure it's safe secure and reliable. >> at what level of threat are we under now? >> the way i would characterize this is we really had increased attention based on the rhetoric that comes from president putin at based on current events, and i would also offer we do pay attention to ensure we maintain our bowlful of not only nuclear portfolio really across all of our portfolios, increase the awareness, paying close attention particularly based on current events and how things are playing out for mr. putin in ukraine. >> let me bring up the issue of j.c. to. modernization. as we see china and russia both increase their missile stockpiles, ativan hypersonic capabilities, i believe it's of the utmost importance that we are able to detect incoming threats before it's too late. secretary kendall, in your opening statement, you mention that the fiscal 23 budget provides for an interim airborne warning and control replacement. i'm glad to see that we're modernizing, worry about the word interim. what steps are being taken to ensure that this interim solution remains an interim solution? >> there are two or three things in that question, congressman. the d7 is an interim solution because we envision some point will need something that is even more survivable than that. what the threat is doing for airborne surveillance and for any aircraft which performs that type of omission is trying to reach for the out with legal mechanism that can defeat those. traditionally this fight a large extent by standing off being further away from the threat. china understands that and they are pretty far down that path. with regard to hypersonics the critical issue there is missile attack warning bereft capability that can detect launches very well and it is a good job of tracking ballistic missiles. hypersonic missiles are much more uncertain in their trajectories and more difficult to track. so the architecture general raymond talked about is designed to do that mission from space. in general we would like to move towards space-based capabilities for sedans against a variety of threat. most sufficient place for us to do it if its global covers so if we could do it technically assaults of resilient architecture that's an ideal solution for us and one of the reasons why i use the word interim when i talk with e-7. the general may want to say more about hypersonics public of what the new will do for that. >> i i think you right on the head, mr. secretary. the architecture that you will see in this president budget request does two things. one, it allows us to detect and track maneuverable hypersonics which are more challenging today, and the second thing it does is it diversified architecture is like you diversify your financial portfolio, it builds resilience to a threat on orbit. >> are we able to keep up with recent chinese advances? >> that's why we're here. i'm very comfortable that we are the world's best today at the very comfortable that we have a team and with your support the resource to stay ahead of that e threat but the work to be done and we had to stay focused on that and move fast. >> the russians deployed hypersonics in ukraine the last few days. did our current systems prove useful that observation? >> we have world coverage on being able to detect missiles. i can go into more details with you and a classified setting. >> thanks for your service. >> we have about five votes pending shortly. mr. aguilar, then mr. aderholt. >> thank you, madam chair. mr. secretary, you stated, i wanted to follow up on the hypersonic discussion here you previous he stated that has an asymmetric advantage over the u.s. in relations to hypersonics. like you i believe it's crucial that we can compete with our near-peer adversaries. however, the air launched rapid response weapon the air force hypersonic flight missile has faced numerous challenges including three large test failures. confiscatory three budget the air force is only requesting funding for this program. you stated you were not satisfied with the pace. what's the long-term strategy and if we provide this funding this fiscal year to anticipate it being able to move into production in 24? >> it's one of our hypersonic programs that's one of multiple programs we have in the department of defense. the program has not been successful in research and develop it so far. it is had three test flight faded. we want to see proof of success before we make a decision about commitment to production so we are waiting to see. the overall situation h regard hypersonics it's more complex than people often understand. we don't want to mirror image the chinese. they invested heavily in hypersonics and then so with one that was in last fall. the u.s. has a different operation. there try to keep her force out of reach of the targets that we present because of that to them. they present a different target set to us. we want to look at is what's most cost effective mix of weapons. there is a a role for hypersos than that and we need to invest and procure them in some qantas but the stone open question my mind about what's the most cost effective mix. hypersonics has attractive features but also very expensive. people vastly will be our relative to the chinese. basically i think it's comparable from the point of view of technology. they had been aggressive about vehicles and book trying to move forward with the fairway been less aggressive but i think in terms of our technological capabilities comparable. we had more success with their breeding hypersonic weapons, development of those but it's still fairly early stage of development. it's a fairly confident picture we do need to get in some classified information to discuss fully. >> i'm not interested in mimicking the chinese. i just try and the budgetary implications and the requests that you put before us which include 115 million to continue testing in this respect. you are also requesting 634 million in hypersonic attack cruise missiles which is a large increase over the 190 million provided fy '22. the air force is been a few hundred million on hypersonic prototyping program, hacksaw, only to end of that effort. could you continue to expand, you mention multiple layers. you also mentioned we can go into other venues and talk about this but from it budgetary perspective can you give us your thoughts on what the priorities are for hypersonic, and how do we continue to put money for research and to advance our interests without putting dollars in two things they can't get to production? >> overall what we need to get to hypersonic visibility to engage moving targets. current systems are limited and that capability. they are generally designed for fixed targets and are some fixed targets we might want hypersonics to attack cost-effectively but for the future we want to get to know the class of targets and a cancer much more without getting to classified session. >> thank you. i will yield back, madam chair. >> thank you, reminding members with iphones currently a fourth fourth and will be going into a classified reading with the secretary immediately after votes so please after the last of the five votes go directly up if you're able to join us for the classified briefing. mr. aderholt and then mr. ryan. mr. ryan, i will do to make sure you can ask your questions. mr. adult. >> thank you. thank you, general and for being here. last years space command basing decision really great space command headquarters to huntsville, alabama, the inspector general ultimately found that the decision quote complied with federal law and dod policy and the process was reasonable. representing northern alabama ii can personally tell you that huntsville does have a perfect combination for defense experts, businesses, skilled workers, educational opportunities and quality of life that will help space command accelerate our nation's capabilities into the next generation. i look forward to seeing the gao report when it is released that i i understand will be any day now. mr. secretary, let me address this question two. assuming for this question that the gao report does not recommend overturning the original basing decision. can you explain the process for reaffirming the basing decision and the timeline to stand up space command in huntsville? >> we are all hoping to move forward with the final decision as quickly as we can. we do need to see the final reports and assess those, then the normal process at this point would be with a preferred location and some acceptable alternatives basically, in total i think six swinney to do under the nepa process and evaluation of environmental impact as well forget some of the considerations before we finalize the decision. normally the process would take four months total, three months doing the assessments and another month of public comment. i'm very hopeful one way or the other get a final decision. >> what will be the actual timeline to stand up in huntsville assuming speedy to stand up after the decision? i would have to get to that for the record. i understand requires a new building to be built for the headquarters and there's a lot of leadtime associated with tha that. >> i see the fy 23 fy '23t seeks to cut more than 100 100 aircraft in order to focus on the air force modernization priorities. and they understand and support your attempts to modernize u.s. air force to tomorrow's challenges, but concerned about the price in terms of aircraft and force structure that the budget proposes to pay to modernize. furthermore, even while we modernize we must stay laser focused on defending the homeland. that's a given. the national guard and reserve have long been low cost solutions for national defense. and, in fact, the air national guard performed 93% of homeland defense of our missions. my question, has the department made any attempts to seek cost savings by transferring force structure to the air national guard rather than eliminating them from the total for? >> i will let general brown offers views on that come to get we look at force posture all the time and i have a balance between the active guard and reserve which is sustainable over time and which provides us the mix of immediately available capabilities and given that was available and longer timeframe the role of the guard in particular homeland defense is really appreciative. that's a cost-effective mission for the guard. >> congressman, we do a couple things as we do our reviews. we look at the active guard and reserve mix but we also look at her overseas and stateside mix to ensure we maintain a healthy force because there is a dynami dynamic. as we do that i look at it from a tour de force perspective. our lay down is not just the guard and not just active duty, not just the reserve. it's how we lay down that across to make sure the capability to do all the missions the nation asked us to deeper homeland defense is hyperbole. the guard doesn't outstanding job working homeland defense so that you play in our decision very highly as we lay out in this case the fighter force structure across the united states air force. >> thank you. i certainly think that is something that should be taken into consideration. has the department considered accelerating modernization of the air national guard alert units out of the airframes into the f-35? >> gentlemen, , if that is going to take more time than you have, please submit that for the record but i will extend it another minute. >> i think we need to take it for the record anyway. >> mr. aderholt -- >> thank you, senator i want to make sure you get satisfying answer. >> thank you. >> mr. ryan. >> thank you, madam chair. appreciate it. i'll try to be brief here knowing that the votes are going. mr. secretary, i want to thank you first for speaking with me recently about eight c-130js this committee appropriate specific for the air force reserve and i've spoken with general scobee, chief of the air force reserve many sent over the about these planes. which i thought very hard for in which i'm very grateful for chair mccollum and her staff for their indulgence as well, an interesting thing for for helping our units upgrade from the h2 the j model. i did want in a couple of things. human air force reserve seek to finish the basing study will ultimately determine where these planes go. firstly, the subcommittee has twice passed language to the air force reserve that was written with the ac 133j9 in both fy '16 and fy '17 reports state in your identical identical language, a designated specialized mission as well as a traditional tactical mission and the committee encourages the team of the air force reserve to review the requirements to ensure specialized units are allocated equipment upgrade necessary to address safety concerns associate with these missions come in court. so general scobee assessment in 2019 before the subcommittee said the following are fundamental basis is going to be that we put those aircraft in our special mission which include the firefighters and the aerial spray unit in youngstown. so point number two is that under the prior administration this study was already delayed once and put on ice after site visits which you may know after the site visits had already been completed at the aerial spray in youngstown in a firefighting unit in peterson, colorado. i want to urge you to use the work that is only been completed and complete this basing study in the most expeditious manner possible, and just what your assurance, , mr. secretary, that the air force and air force reserve complete a basing study whose criteria are in line with the criteria laid out by this subcommittee and that is consistent with the past statement of the chief of the air force reserve and that it is complete, completed as expeditiously as possible so our pilots are not forced to fly older, , less safe aircraft in a longer than they already have to. >> congressman, we want to move forward and make those decisions as soon as you can so i can commit to you of that. we are in the early stages of the process but we fully appreciate the importance of the special mission such as spring and firefighting and even the arctic mission with. the c-130 is providing a lot of options that are important both to department and the country. we'll take that into account as a move to the process. >> great. the base is not far from my house and and i talked to ts over there and it's time for us to get moving on this, and no the pandemic has contributed to a certain extent but we seen to have the information we need. i really appreciate it and if you could just stay in touch with me on that. i i have another question madam chair, i will submit for the record for general brown on new transformation, been working on this for a long time. as i stated to the panel that we had with the secretary of defense a few days ago, you know, we also the appropriations committee also funds va health and high rates of diabetes, the higher rates of obesity is driving up health care costs both for active duty and for our veterans and that something that a think ties directly back to the issues around food. i want to submit a question on food transformation and kind of engage on some of the changes we've been pushing for it but i appreciate that and madam chair, i will yield back the balance of my time. >> i appreciate that, mr. ryan. mr. calvert, as we wind up i have some questions for the record that i will be submitting the sites of technical question staff as on the arctic, hypersonics will talk about that a little more and classified. the block upgrade within type of the f-35 have been submitted to the f-35, the nuclear modernization. mr. calvert, anything before entering? >> also i will have questions for the record. in the classified session i always want to get into hypersonic issue in more details. >> members, who are remaining i will link again, immediately after this vote will go up in the classified session within the capital. once again i want to thank secretary kendall, general brown and general raymond for being here today. please once again thank all those who have served alongside of you, those who wear the uniform and those who come to work in civilian clothes back. they all play an and affordae internet security. with that, that concludes today's figure this subcommittee now stands adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] .. >>. [inaudible conversations] hingt.