or even on stain it's music. it's like playing music. and you feel the rhythm. and the trick is to make it organic, but adhere to the rhythm. >> charlie: the comedy. >> both do. i really do think both do. it's a different kind of muse glike goodbye and bradley cooper, next. if you've had a coke in theast 20 years, ( screams ) you've had a hand in giving college scholarships... and supporto thousands of our nation's... most promising students. ♪ ( coca-cola 5-note mnemonic ) every story needs a hero we can all root for. but this isn't just a hollywood storyline. it's happening every day, all across america. every time a storefront opens. or the midnight oil is burned. or when someone chases a dream, not just a dollar. they are small business owners. so if you wanna root for a real hero, support small business shop small. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: this is a cultural event, after 25 years oprah winfrey sending her daily talk show for many it marks the end of an era in television. the final episode aired earlier today. >> i started this show as a job and was very happy to get the job. but was not long before i understood that there was something else going on here. more than just job satisfaction. something in me connected with each of you in a way that allowed me to see mysf in you and you in me. i listened and i know you grew along with me. sometimes i was a teacher, and more often you taught me. >> charlie: oprah's leaving to focus on own, her new television network. her story and her rise is well nope. she was born poor in rural mississippi in 1954. she arrived in chicago in 198320 host her own morning talk show. she ultimately created a media empire is one of the most influential people in the world. there's no match for you in media history, not only hot you're cool. the dream of girl for millions of ambitious young them whom you have inspired all over the world. often said, if women rule the world for the next 100 years we'd all be better off. i have a feeling with the possibilities that oprah's fingertips we may be one step closer. here is a look at what she did over the years. >> i'm oprah winfrey and welcome to the very first national "oprah winfrey show"! [ applause ] i have lost as of this morning, as of this morning, 67 pounds since july 7th. 67 pounds. and 30 inches from my bust, my waist and my hips. what we want to do is start a book club here on "oprah" show at lot of you are in reading clubs out there you have a book of the month and so forth. i want to get the whole country reading again, those of you who haven't been reading, books are important. we asked you towel collect, get your small change laying around the house this year so that we could send 50 students, one from every state to college. we've got a grand total of $3,557,000 clam we needed to measure your feet so we know when you walk out today that you get a brand new pair of sneakers! here we are, half way through the season 24. and it still means as much to me to spend an hour every day with you as it did back in 1986. why walk away and make next season the last? here is the real reason. i love this show, this show has been my life and i love it enough to know when it's time to say goodbye. >> charlie: join meaning bill warter of the "new york times," kelefa sanneh of the "new yorker" magazine and ali wentworth who worked on the show over the years. i am pleased to have all of them here to mark this particular fascinating time and occasion. so what do we say about this? >> i think we say goodbye to the oprah winfrey show but not good pie to oprah. i think she is going to do a lot more and a lot march than just television. i think she's a huge philanthropic advocator and i think she's going to get very involved in that as well. >> charlie: what's been going on over the last couple of weeks how did they decide to wind it down the way they did? >> i think it was important to do something for her. i had a feeling that the last show would be with her, because that is her family. >> charlie: how she defines it. >> yes.i was asked to go to thet two shows which is sort of one long performance. it was, you know, there's no other way to describe it. just like one person, one celebrity after another. stevie wonder and the lord jesus christ and -- >> he showed up? >> pretty much. but it had moving moments, all the men that she put through college, came with candles. it was extravaganza, still it didn't touch on everything that she's done over the 25 years. the people she's touched and changed. you know, she's had a huge impact on -- not just of our country, globally. a huge impact. people have changed their lives for her. >> charlie: what do you think her impact was? >> if you look at her career there's this series of incredible transformations. she escapes tv news to become part of this talk show thing. then brilliantly in the mid '90s escapes the talk show pact and rebrands her show as live your best life tv. i think if you look at the last five, six, seven, eight years you see another transformation where the show comes a little bit more self conscious. the enormity of who she is the importance of her show, impossible to escape and in fact becomes the main subject of the show. i think you can date that to the pontiac car give away in 2004 where all of a sudden, the "oprah" show where you might get a car and the -- and she knows, acknowledge for the audience going to watch the "oprah" show is a special experience. for people on stage being on the "oprah" show is a special experience. the "oprah" show is this alternate reality where everything is always special. and i think this comes to the logical conclusion this year where parallel to the show on the oprah network some season 25 behind the scenes of the "oprah" show. a show that takes you behind the scenes of the "oprah" show a few weeks ago on the season 25 behind the scenes they took you behind the scenes much season 25. if i recall correctly behind the keeps of the behind the scenes of the "oprah" show, show, show, show. that's a good example how she is. i think really cleverley negotiated this thing that's got to be really did i ultimate cult. starts as a forum to talk and exchange ideas and forum gets bigger and bigger becomes its own subject. >> i was at the show many times. but i used to always watch the audience before we walked out. and a lot of them had been waiting ten years nor tickets. >> charlie: ten years for tickets? >> oh, yeah. i'd look at the audience as oprah walked out before us, and i mean, as soon as they saw her they start crying, wholeness would -- like really, like a spiritual movie. >> oprah started out really, the reason she was able to be so successful that was she connected to people in a really deep way. they got her. she got them. and -- >> charlie: she brought them in to her life. >> she also thought the way they did. she could anticipate what they wanted her to ask, the guests. she was really good at that. wasn't just doing questions, she was very good at that. and she kept that up for a very long time despite becoming this larger than life figure. and somehow she still was able to do it. i do think there was a change. you are so accurate, became much more self conscious. as you point out people are like weeping when they see her. this is a person that has transcended like the normal human interactions. >> charlie: does that mean, everything sort of came together for her because she was african american, because she battled with weight which so many do, she had her own insecurities about herself yet had this enormous sort of success. >> isn't that sort of what friendship is based on? my friends are friends that share more discuss their issues. >> charlie: she became the ultimate friend. >> she became a friend who listened. she's fantastic at listening, nothing goes by her without, wait a minute, why would you say that or think that? she's like that offset, too. we could be -- we were once in dallass thousands of people just screaming and cops and craziness and it was really funny because she came out of screaming, crying trying to reach her. like the beatles then gayle walked in! they -- it was quieter, and we're like, two of them, "hey, ali" when you are with her she is genuinely engaged. she's not somebody that walks off the set and, see ya later. she's talking to you, what's going on. is -- she really connects. >> charlie: she'll talk about anything. >> my dog, my dog died. she sent me the most beautiful e-mail. she connects to people in a way that i have never seen. >> that's why she's so successful as a television figure. people don't understand that television, really works if you come across as the person you really are. what she was able to do from the very start, i was fortunate enough toe see the very first show she was on in baltimore, because was in baltimore writing about tv at the time. it was instantly there. that connection, that -- this is who i am, i can talk to you just like a regular person, that was always there for her. it was automatic. i think us a said, previously she found what she could do great. >> charlie: she said it today. i found what i was destined to do. what i was born to do. where she found her happiest moments. >> there is this. >> charlie: in the arc of the show i read this as story in the "washington post", the empire remains, after 25 year reign in the next phase. the ratings had begun over the last ten years because of different competition, because of -- >> there's more channels, very difficult for any -- no television show cannot be diminished when there are -- i also think, my own opinion is that she became a little less the oprah that they knew. that's my feeling. >> charlie: because of all the stories of the glamour and everything else this. >> she's gigantic. she was a little bit less than the figure that i think people were comfortable with. on occasion, celebrities, the praise to her and she's worth $3 billion. that's got to become a factor in your fly a big part of her appeal was that she was a teacher but also a student. in that kind of middle phase, starting from the mid '90s to maybe the mid oughs. she was trying to figure something out. extraordinarily ambitious, trying to figure out the spiritual questions, sort of her own ideology figure out what it is. i think in the last years you've got more of a sense that she had figured it out. she was no longer in that process of trying to figure it out. she figured out what she believes about life, about spirituality, about love. wasn't so much she was looking for answers to this these questions it was closer that she had the answers to these questions. again, i think that is part of why on one level that's part why more influential than judge judy who beats her in the ratings because she stands for basically a way of living, stands for an ideology. but i think that to certain viewers it might feel a little more closed off because it might feel like someone who's figured out her life who are she believes. >> to some people it can feel like proselytizing, too. >> there's that, too. trying to trace the evolution of her belief system is fascinating. >> charlie: one more partial point. commercials on this last episode were selling at a million dollars for 30 seconds? >> yeah. >> like a super bowl. >> charlie: any idea what is the estimated audience? >> i don't know. very hard to say. syndicated show you're not going to get a gigantic, massive -- i think she'll be in the tens of millions for sure. >> there's a lot of oprah parties that were happening all over. >> charlie: celebrating -- >> people all coming together tn together. >> the king world syndicate people, cbs people were among the weepiest, probably. >> charlie: roger king was going to start syndicating her early on. >> she did. incredibly loyal to him. very loyal. he helped her -- >> she was -- >> charlie: talk to me about her as a businesser. >> really smart.really savvy. she understood the business, she understood syndication aspects and ownership position that she wanted to get in. she was generating such big audiences and driving them in to news and she saw what they were doing she got more -- >> charlie: understood how valuable she. >> she knew.one of the best shos season was the two parter with van $ant was going to be the next oprah. and it didn't work out for her. the deal fell apart problems in her life and business problems. and it was amazing to see the two women face to face and you realized, you saw all the mistakes that oprah didn't make. you saw how easy it would have been to somehow not sustain this performance for 25 years. you compare her, try to think who to compare her to. johnny carson is her opposite but somebody else that had that sustained performance. >> she came along at the exact right time. she was protege of donohue. she idealized him. did he this kind of show. he took the show and made it important that women watch for issues and not just for -- makeovers and things like. that you can do that -- oomiaks in entertainment and do serious shows. but the timing was perfect for that. because it was -- there was just an explosion and interest in all that have. women were watching the show and she was able to get prime time for syndicated show leading in to the news. >> to detabloid it. >> that's another incredibly savvy thing she d. it could have tipped over at that point said, no, i'm not doing any of that. she was able to purple it off. >> now the question is, she ends the show, she has the oprah network which although she wouldn't like to say sit basically reality tv network. she calls these shows docu-series. net who, is basically full of unscripted drama full of -- >> charlie: what is she going to do? >> the next chapter, isn't it? she's going to do specials. she's going to travel and going to interview people that interest her, that's sort of what i -- >> and whether this format survives. the anderson cooper and licki lake and -- >> this is so -- >> everybody -- starting in the fall with a talk show. >> everybody says, so-and-so will be the next oprah. no one is going to be the next owe pennsylvania no one will be the next oprah because of who she is. her time on television, it isn't like that any more. >> charlie: she has made careers. >> huge. this is very funny i'm just handing in a book to harper collins this week. last year she kept saying, hurry up, write your book. i'm the idiot. creative -- i couldn't -- >> charlie: did you have ambitious of being ab oprah? >> no. i was just happy to be participating in the way i was. >> charlie: how did you participate? show up on friday and -- >> did i the friday live. that didn't work, i think because it was a live show, the syndicators didn't have a lot to advertise. and then did i -- they say, go become a dallas cowboy cheerleader. go jump out of a plane. >> charlie: is that what you would do? >> of course. oprah tell to you jump out of a plane. >> charlie: you never said no? >> never. i never said no. today the greatest job i've ever had. >> charlie: why is it the greatest job you've ever had? >> she's a fantastic boss. the company, i'm telling you, i don't know if it's a midwestern thing, but all the producers are incredibly nice. and thorough and hard working. really as far as like a work situation should be template for that. but also -- >> charlie: amazing place to work. she takes them all on big vacations once a ye? >> she does. they work for this woman. they worked for this woman. 17 hours a day, they were never bitter about it. i go on field shoot and you know producers, we've been up for 48 hours doing -- but not upset. just -- >> charlie: a midas touch or there were fail snares. >> i think there were. she's always been good at if she's plugging something on her show or does her show about something, there have been times when she moves on and kind of doesn't look back. rhonda burn is a good example where she got behind rhonda and her book "the secret" and, you know -- >> charlie: what does that say about her, oprah? that she got behind -- what was it that made a logical extension of oprah's sort of hands on. >> that book encapsulated a lot she already believed. which is this idea that what you put out in to the universe is what you get back. and it's interesting because on the one hand it speaks the language of emotional liberalism which is that it's all about feelings and all about feeling good. but also speaks the language of economic conservatism which is that you get what you deserve. hand people in general get what they deserve. it's really in a way it's real subtle philosophy and goes back to new thought and -- >> charlie: talk about. that it's interesting of terms who have she is. >> she's also, a really savvy business person. she's a boss. she's very good at managing, she manages the staff. i think she's also secretive person in some ways. she doesn't let people in that part of her -- very easily. i think she has like pretty strict deals with people who stopped working for her. they're limited in what they can do and say. after they left, i don't know if you had that, but -- >> no. >> you knee i'm talking about. she had -- she had control. she is a controlled person, she wants to exercise control. >> that's why it was so shocking to see some of the stuff with stedman graham her long time partner on the final show. you saw him up on stage talking to her, talking about love. it was startling. because something you weren't used to seeing. >> charlie: why didn't they ever marry? >> i don't know. being used to oprah surprise sounds like, this is it, he's going to propose on the finale going to be amazing. >> really? i didn't think that. >> thought there was going to be something dramatic. one of the other amazing things about oprah. she connects extremely well with women who are married have children, something she did not experience. and yet she relates in that way will talk about stedman as a partner all that have, you know, i think it's reflection of -- she's very private about that part. >> that's also part of the fairy godmother, kind of make over or transformation usually the agents of change someone who stands outside that have world. slightly outside that have social world. whom doesn't have kids is the person who is going to help people understand how to deal with their kids or how to raise their family. >> it seems she made a conscious decision that she wasn't going to marry. apparent plea. >> charlie: you know more about this? >> the show has taken weird turn. no, because -- >> charlie: you've talked about exchanging christmas presents, personal relationship. the friendship that exists between you. why wouldn't you share -- >> we're not intimate. i mean, she doesn't -- we've never had discussions about her personal life. i'm not in that circle. >> charlie: who is in that circle, gayle is in that circle. >> some of her producers i think have been tape circle. >> i'm sure she's got -- >> maria shriver is in that sick yes. >> yeah.i'm not -- >> charlie: that goes back to baltimore? television station there. they are real good friends and stayed real good friends. >> charlie: that was another moment when she popped up on the show -- here comes the -- interview will happen right now. >> charlie: you had scenarios. >> i thought it was going to happen. >> charlie: did you continue to watch it while she was on at 4:00 say last four or five years >> 1:07 a.m. broadcast. but you know, i watch the show mainly but i never missed an episode of season 25 behind the scenes, that was -- you. like that? >> watching her? interact with the producers and watching her do this thing that she's so good at, always interesting to watch. >> by the way to go book what you were just saying, i also think that believe it or not the american public, her fans don't really care that much about the stedman and personal stuff. what she connected with them on was sexual abuse and, you know, addition and those are the things that the fans really care about. it's funny because it's the opposite of most celebrities. they don't want to you know about the sexual abuse and drugs but they're happy to talk about are i don't know if we're getting married, maybe we will, i don't know. it -- speaking of a fan of the show never bothered me that she didn't divulge her personal life. i thought it was more intimate the stuff she was sharing. >> charlie: the gossip was -- in terms of curiosity about all this was huge. >> gayle and oprah ever less beians and -- >> stedman and sense of --becauo do with her? if you got to find tabloid stuff there's other place to go. >> a lot of questions about that. did they actually have a real relationship. certainly kicked around. but i think that sort of challenges oprah because, people say, she's secretly gay. oprah would say it if she was. >> charlie: she would say that. >> she couldn't deep ha secret. how could she have lot of the interviews she's had over the 25 years and not come out if she were gay. people would be -- there would be torches. >> she doesn't like people who were frauds. >> yeah. >> part of what is unusual she doesn't -- she's unusual plea uncynical about celebrity. the kind of like, snary sensibility of making fun of them or taking digs. her show is one of the last places on tv where no matter who the celebrity is, whether it's colin firth or katy perp reshe's equally respectful and treats them well. some ways that's a throwback. >> when she actually really likes them or not. recently this season she had rob lowe on. i haven't thought about for years, really. >> he's great on "parks and rec." >> at the interview -- >> very funny. after the interview i was like, i'm going to buy -- i think he's fantastic. >> charlie: oprah and race. change? >> she acknowledges this in interesting ways, again going back to this yamma van zant you see something you're not expecting to see. she says people come up to me why q me why i don't do for more black people. this was example of time when i tried to do something more for black people. and so i think she's been -- she's did can knee in not choosing not trying to choose between, you know, i'm appealing to black viewers or i'm appealing to the mainstream somehow. you don't hear a lot of talk among black viewers that somehow oprah has left them behind or sold them out. it's more like obama status where -- if anything, black people are proud of her for appealing to such a wide demographic. >> charlie: it is said that she added a million votes to obama. >> she clearly was a factor. >> charlie: in the primaries. >> she just was. because she's got huge following and she basically gave this guy a platform like, you know, no candidate could ever -- >> charlie: endorsement that everybody -- and fact that she was a woman made a difference. >> i think so because of hilary aspect, sure. >> it's funny because usually she's -- her approach tends to be more conservative in terms of not going on a limb. every once in awhile, another good example the run up to the iraq war, she does couple of shows that are essentially anti-war shows, looking at opinion around the world and again was pretty unusual thing for someone of her stature to be doing right at that point. i think she has good sense of when she's able to do that. when she can kind of go on limb. >> i thought it was -- sorry. i thought it was fascinating, in the early part of her career when she had the skinheads on. and that was one of the few shows back then where i went, wow, she's amazing. these guys, skinheads that were so full of hate and rage and called her a monkey, just -- as -- you're watching it going, i can't even watch this it's so horrific. how she dealt with them and then years later when she went to prison talked to pedophile, is that she actually is very good at not judging people and that's so hard to do. think about so many people that have had talk shows that have walked off themselves or gone in fights and she's very good at maintaining that, i'm going to let you have your voice. i may not agree. but i'm going to listen to you and it was fantastic at the end of the season she had two of the skinheads back on said, you know, have you changed, have you grown? they were mortified about their behavior. one of them might have been a little bald but i think that was age. >> that was another very interesting strategic move because she was -- she did local tv in chicago. phil donohue was in chicago. when the show went national she stayed in chicago she didn't to go new york or l.a. she became, obviously, biggest thing in chicago which -- >> charlie: was she up against phil when she started, 9:00 a.m. in chicago? >> they would do the show live in chicago. sipped occasion would be all different times. >> charlie: i understand that. >> i think probably overlapped, yeah. probably did overlap. >> there's -- episode where she had all the other talk show hosts come back on stage sort of toast her out lasting them. which was an amazing -- >> charlie: who was in that group? it. >> was donohue, montel williams. >> all had a say. you're the best. >> charlie: kingdom of pre. >> think about what do you for a living and how difficult it is, maybe not for you but for other people to book guests. it's hard to book guests. she's in chicago and people have come to her. the biggest celebrities will fly -- >> they didn't -- >> because she did content. issue shows. celebrities -- >> charlie: like men and women how to -- about marriage or something. >> she did that are to years. but she was so big that celebrities would go to see oprah. to sit at her feet. by the end it was meeting of equals or like -- pay tribute. >> charlie: she had wonderful line which i think this was when she appeared on the first program that pierce morgan when he came in to follow larry king. that is the thing about me that i admire about myself. i know where my lane is and i know how to stay in my lane. >> i think we're all observing that this woman who knew herself extremely well. knew what she was good at. knew how to really work that. and that she changed she was able to find new parts. >> charlie: they took risks. she took risks in terms of acting. she tried to be broadway producer. >> she acted and she did well.s. >> steven spielberg was her first director. >> then sort of pushed it aside. she didn't really pursue it. a lot of other people would have been caught up in that would have said, look what i can do. i can be an actress. oprah kind of knew. maybe that's not good for me. >> about to figure out, what is she without a daily talk show. is this michael jordan playing baseball s. this -- in other words, or is this she's going to be -- >> the theme, by the way. >> i'm saying how much -- what happens when you take the oprah show away from oprah. >> then you are even hungrier for her special. >> it's going to be a real challenge. think about starting new cable network in this particular time and getting the right distribution, getting the right access, it's real tough road. >> charlie: at the right place to do that. >> they're plenty smart. you are in the middle of a range of channel, is that people -- people don't watch that many channels she has to do something to stand out. i think she'll find it. but it's going to be a challenge. >> do you think she end up doing daily talk show again? >> no. i don't think she's the type do that. she doesn't need to. >> charlie: but the point is, ip think she didn't do it because she needed to. she did it because she wanted to. she didn't need to keep the brand alive or make the money or -- she did it that's what she wanted to do. >> didn't need to gift up. she could have kept doing "the daily show" if she wanted to. >> charlie: why did she say 25 years is about right. 25 is magical rather than 24 or 26. >> gary seinfeld, you will can out on top. you don't wait for it to fizzle out. you physically feel when it's enough you have to have the strength to go. >> it was interesting, she interviewed learn though when leno came off his disaster 10:00 show. leno kept saying, you're not going to give it up. you're not going to give it up. she said, yes, i am. he is the kind who can't give it up. she kept saying, no, you're prong. i'm going to give it up. >> charlie: the champion of giving it up to johnny carson. >> obviously he was guy went -- >> charlie: he never appeared on television. she is going to do other things. carson walked away never came back. >> i think when do you a show like his you captain do another thing. not something else. you aren't going to act in movies. oprah did very flexible. she has enormous interests. haven't even mentioned the book club thing which was amazing. she got the nation reading again. what an amazing thing. reading serious books. remarkable thing. >> i think she'll do more for girls school and education and this is what i mean about, really be focused on all her philanthropic -- >> do you think her influencewat platform? >> i think she'll miss it. just being out there every day -- when carson stopped his show, his voice lost some timbre. people would talk to him on the phone, he sounded different because he wasn't on stage projecting every night. he missed it so much he wrote monologue, is that we read on the phone. >> and send in jokes to letterman. >> charlie: thank you. pleasure. thank you. >> thank you. >> charlie: bradley cooper is back, actor best known for "the hang over" "wedding crashers" and "limitless" here is a look at some of his work. >> hey, let's all promise in ten years from today we'll meet again and wel see what kind of people we've blossomed in to. >> yeah! >> what time do you want to cincinnati. >> you mean ten years from now? >> yh. >> let's meet in the morning to make a day of it. >> okay, what is it? like 9:00 or 9:30? >> let's say 9:00 that way we can be here by 9:30. >> why don't we say 9:30 make it your beeswax to be here at 9:0. we'll all be in o late 20s, i don't see any reason why we can't be places on glim are you okay? well, my head is in the toilet. what do you any why don't you do the math, okay? >> it's okay to be vulnerable, it's just me. >> just cut that psycho babble th your mom tellsou. >> you want to help meut? do you. why don't you get me a 7-up, okay? because i think i -- i might get vulnerable again. i assumed i told you i would -- is that what you want? >> okay. >> i was wondering if you had any villas glacial we were not going to be in the room no. big deal. we can share beds, one night. >> then -- you good with that? >> no. i'm not good with that. you're not sharing beds. what are we 12 years old? >> i apologize. how much ithe villa? >> we have one available it's $4200 for the flight we'll take it. >> i have a car. i live in the valley. >> i want you toave it. you traveled so far for a few hours. spend every possible second with this guy. it's already paid for. will take you wherever you need to go, just give him the address. >> thank you. >> you're a lucky man. >> i don't know how to fight. or do i? >> charlie: his latest film "hanover part 2" starts on may 26th. here is a look at the trailer. >> hey, everybody, here is fun facts. the population in tie southland 63 million people. it is twice the size of wyoming. none much you know stu like i do. i can't even tell you what we've been through because we made a pact. what i can tell saw this, this is not stu's first marriage. there was a -- >> come have a drink with me. >> take my little brother teddy you. that is great idea. bring the kids. >> all right, one drink. >> cheers. >> cheers. >> are you going to freak out but it's going to be okay. >> this is a real tattoo. >> what did do you? >> i didn't do anything. >> where are you guys? >> i don't know. we woke up in some -- >> been looking for them all morning. >> i can't believe this is happening again. laura's little brother is lost, not going back without teddy. >> we love to party. >> all i wanted was a bachelor party. check your pockets. there might be clues. >> the monastery? i don't remember any of this. >> what street this a p.f.chang? >> where the hell are you street >> we're in bangkok. >> hold that. he's so strong. >> hey, guys, check it out. cut it out. the monkey nibbles, it's if you knee in any language. >> charlie: i am pleased to have bradley cooper back at this table. welcome. >> thank you. 470 million for the first one. we think second one might do equally well if not better. how much would it take to get to you be in the second movie? >> well, it took $5 million. [ laughter ] >> charlie: that was it, wasn't it? >> that was it. >> charlie: no contract to commit to you another -- >> no contract at all. we just decided, here is the thing. where is why i was stuck because i loved todd phillips. he's a great director. if i wanted to do something the truth is i'll do it for free. it's a hard thing. luckily i have an agent we did this thing called favored nations all three guys would get the same amount of money. there's no problem, there's no squabble. then go make movie. we set that up very early on. warner brothers was interested in making the movie while we were shooting the first one, which was really interesting. >> charlie: what is it you think this one has to capture to be as successful as the first one. what was it about the first one that made it so phenomenally -- >> i think that it was -- >> charlie: commercially successful. >> timing is everything. as you know all the actors and directors and film makers you've had on there's no formula to make a hit, there just isn't. if i'm going to try to guess i'd say that, the three unknowns which was good thing. as you can just immerse yourself in the story. and you have a chemistry that we just all happened to have the three of us together. you have these sort types, phil, and allan, you have stu in the middle. at the hell can the reason why it worked is todd phillips, no question. first of all he's the coolest guile guy you'll ever meet. i think, if you look at it we get away with saying the most outrageous things in this movie, particularly allan because, nobody takes themselves too seriously. allan's not in on the joke, it allows the audience to be in on the joke. it's also a mystery, this movie, it works as comedy but also functions as a who done it, film noir, hard boiled detective movie. a lot of things going on at once. >> charlie: character disappears again. >> for the second one, major decision this we had to make, do we depart from the structure or adhere to it. i for one was adamant about we have to adhere to the structure. as fan of the first one if i am going to watch the second one i want to see that phone call again from phil saying we f'd up. i want a missing guy, girl to get harrowing day or be disappointed. giant see all those things. the question is, how do we adhere to that but make it fresh, bangkok. >> charlie: location is important here. >> everything. i think three characters in the movie say it. bangkok has them now she'll never let them go. personified in the movie. >> charlie: how do you like bangkok? >> you know, charlie, i'll tell you, did i this movie called "the a-team commitment i thought would be the hardest movie. this was miles beyond. that it's interesting, population of bangkok i think ten million or -- it's a lot of people. very small city. logistically just a nightmare. it was just a nightmare. our director loves a clean, small set. and bangkok is just surplus. surplus of food, of people, if you have very intimate scene that we should shoot just thousands of people everywhere. that creates an energy, like touch were doing this interview 40 people in the room just changes the dynamic. it was almost like, walking through mud sometimes. which made logistically difficult. added to that half way around the world, people are getting sick right and level. ed helm was popping charcoal pills so his stomach would stay steady. >> charlie: when you had this kind of he chemistry, j liked each other as human beings? >> well, did i for myself i have to say, i love ed and sac. i have grown to really, they have become my best friends. zacx is like a brother. tremendous respect for him as human being. first of all i think that respect is the number one thing. we all really respect each other. >> charlie: as professionals. >> as professionals. as actors. as people who have a likeness in comedic appreciation. then as human beings. there really was -- as tech as it's been, we're were on this very specific ride with the first one, experiencing this thing, becoming number one r-rated movie of all time. never any animosity, any combative energy. it's been perfect. >> charlie: what is it about zack who is fellow north carolinians. >> i foil it down to, i'm curious what you think when he was in this chair. he's a guy who is always present. always present. what i envy about him, especially in bangkok he would always go on these walks. low to have walk, too, i love to put on my headphones and walk around the city. he does it with a centeredness that i envy. he really is okay on his own all the time. i think that is an honorable -- >> charlie: i think centered is right. he seems to know who he is. >> very much so. >> charlie: and like who he is. there for he can take any risk that he wants to take he's willing to try. >> that's right. >> charlie: many things. >> on top of that, he is very, very talented actor. we haven't even seen -- we've seen a glimpse of what he's able to do. >> charlie: i want to ask some variation of the question whether comedy harder than drama. because it seems most people say it is. but is it harder for you? >> you know, i remember martin short being interviewed talking about "last tango in paris" and the scene where marlon bandeau with his mother or wife in the death bed if it was comedy it would be much more difficult. personally, film, making film or even on stage it's music. it's like playing music. and you feel the rhythm. the trick is to make it organic but adhere to the rhythm. but i think both d. i think both d. just different kind of music. comedy may be demands a finer ear for the rhythm of a scene or rhythm of how comedy will play itself together. do you have to be very cog any is isn't of that. in the theater, with the audience, they're a character in the play. if you don't embrace the fact that they're going to create the rhythm with you, you're screwed, really. they're missing moments. >> charlie: take to you the theater with julia roberts. how much -- are you adjusting to her rhythm there? >> that's the tricky thing. you have to find this common place. you hope that the rhythm in the writing. that you find it together organically. but hopefully the rhythm in the writing especially a play. in three days of rain, for example, it was wonderfully written play. the rhythm was there. you either had to get on the train that was written or you're in trouble. because if you missed momentum it's going to fall apart. >> charlie: that was a risk for you? >> yeah. it was risk in the sense that i never done a play before. and it was broadway. >> charlie: not sure what you had to risk. >> i knew it of the something. what i didn't realize was i was risking my entire profession. >> charlie: why did you want to do it? >> i love the character. true characters. i have an in which i need to have, have some sort of in, meaning like, some sort of -- not even -- i can't even explain that it i feel that i can do it. once that i have hook then i'm willing to jump off the cliff. i just knew that it was could scare the hell out of me to do eight shows a week in front of 1100 people on stage with julia roberts and paul rudd i knew that, my -- character i first play has -- basically comes on the stage 20 minutes has huge monologue to the audience. that just scared the hell out of me. i lost 17 pounds during rehearsal. >> charlie: do you want to go back? >> i can't wait. >> charlie: you are looking for something that would make sensor it timing? >> well, it's a little bit of both. i think that this fall i'm going to hopefully do this movie "paradise lost" then maybe "the crow" i'm looking at next summer i'd love to go to williams town again and do "the elephant man" that's my dream. >> charlie: of long history. your college thesis? >> grad school.charlie: grad s. >> that's right. >> charlie: what is it about "the elephant man. that grabs you? >> that sort of hook that's inexplicable, when i was 12 my father would show me these movies, one was "the elephant man" i still remember like it. yesterday, frederic played by anthony hopkins walking in to the cellar, the feeling that it would instill in me was ip tox kateing. that's when i said -- you got to do this. when you look at the choices. >> charlie: do you have to find that snook it's a great question. if the director feels so adamantly that i'm the guy and i respect the director, for example, david russ whole is tremendous director. i just think he's -- there was movie that we were talking about doing, i didn't necessarily she the hook. he did. i would go on that journey with him. trusting that he knows more than i do about what i'm able to do. so i would do. that i would trust the director. that would be the reason that i would do it. >> charlie: i've heard actors sayy do the role until i see the clothes, until i put on something about the clothes to get a feeling of how i feel inside this actor. >> you know, for me, it has to happen way before that. way, way before that. that would only illuminate certain aspects of the character. i have not experienced yet not feeling that hook up until the day of the first wardrobe fitting. >> charlie: you've known it beforehand. >> give us an example of what hooks are. >> i'll give you example "paradise lost" studied it ip college, loved it. jason was a scholar. i loved the idea of lucifer being charismatic guy who you agree with basically. you make sound argument. and then cut to legendary -- one doing "paradise lost" then i read the script and i just -- i felt -- i loved the idea two of sons and a father and one day the father says to the sons, you know our family dog, i love the family dog more than you guys. i'm going to build a whole house for the dog -- come here, let me show you. you guys are going to build the house that our dog -- dad, you're going crazy. dad's right, no, dad's not right. i just like this simplicity of it. always felt hook. then betrayal that he feels. i actually put myself on tape in my kitchen with my friend wes to send to alex because he just said the guy from "the hang hover" is not lucifer. >> charlie: you got to audition to convince a director that you're right because he thinks of you in part as a guy from "hang over ." that's right. understandably so. >> charlie: you are not bothered by that? >> god, no. >> charlie: thankful for the chance to have him look at what i do. >> absolutely. pip the way "the hang over" provided that chance for him to even talk -- >> charlie: didn't know who you were. >> and "limitless" okay that guy might be able to carry a movie. but can he carry lucifer. then next step let me put myself on tape and show you. it wasn't until i was in my kitchen reading the lines, which almost in verse the script, the poem is obviously -- also prose you have to do sort of mid atlantic sack accent playing lucifer in this very imaginative environment, in my kitchen i -- it just happened. i just found it. and -- >> charlie: who was with you in the kitchen? >> on the flip camera. this is two weeks ago. >> charlie: flip camera? he's. >> he's holding it like this i'm perched up my stool depending be -- amazing. we did one take, i remember i said, wes -- also helped my kitchen is airy and echo felt like the voice was booming. i said, wes, did you feel that? he said, yeah, let's send this in. we e-mailed it. then he e-mailed me back, satan lives. thatfuls the hook. that experience in my kitchen. if if we do the movie i know that that will be -- give me confidence to go anywhere with that character. >> charlie: do you have any sense of a production company to say, i'm at the stage where, i've hit certain place where i can try this. i can reach out and say, you know, there's a compare 2:00 tore i'd like to do, a story i like. >> yeah, i mean. it's interesting, talking about having the keys. while you have the keys -- to as much as you can. i don't have the keys but i know where the door is. >> charlie: exactly. you know where the door is. >> i found out where the door is. when you see him as actor and director, he is so deeply in to both. >> right. >> charlie: it's amazing. he's -- >> my hunch he thinks like a director. >> charlie: i think he does. >> i think that that is -- i don't even think that's something you can teach. i think it's just the way you see storytelling. and you either see it from your point of view as an actor or you see sort of macro as the film and story. i've always thought of it as the story even when i was a kid with that "elephant man" i was thinking about, that's so interesting that i don't know who he looks like. i'm only watching treeves then later see in the medical room. i was always aware very early age of the manipulation of the camera and editing in order to tell the story in a compelling way. ultimately i'd love to direct, that's ultimately what i want to do. >> charlie: you are serious? >> oh, yeah. there's this series of signs fix novels called "the hyperion" and this is example of trying to get things started. my friend and i went to graham king who ownsment rights to "hyperion" we wrote a treatment on speck, i know this is very audacious endeavor, but can you just read this spec we wrote? now we're negotiating, going to write the script. who knows what will happen that is example of us -- >> charlie: you will direct and star? >> first -- ideally idly to direct it. there's no way, i shouldn't say that you never know. this is huge movie. this would be epic movie. we've taken the reins said we're going to go after it. atelier's we have shot to write the script. >> charlie: you have off to berlin as soon as you leave this, because the film which opens may 26 also opening internationally. you she more and more in europe -- there's no lag between u.s. and europe. >> why would you delay a release? >> >> charlie: you once had an interview, i want to get better. how do do that other than simply choosing roles well, working with talented people. >> well, i mean i think you said like any sport. if you are going on a basketball court you can go all day. you have to. >> charlie: you play with somebody better. >> you have to.you have to want. >> charlie: we talked 'doubt deniro here. >> and the hope is that you're going to be able to walk on those courts and players will say, come on, that's the home. they see something, come on, you can play with us. >> charlie: thank you for coming. great to see you. >> such a pleasure. >> charlie: thank you. the film "hang over 2" opens may 26th in the united states and soon there after around the world. thank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org