before the american people and refused to condemn white supremacists and hate groups like these two michigan militia groups. "stand back and stand by," he told them. "stand back and stand by." hate groups heard the president's words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action. when our leaders speak, their words matter. they carry weight. when our leaders meet with, encourage or fraternise with domestic terrorists, they legitimise their actions and they are complicit. we can now speak to irish times' journalist stephen starr who met members of the wolverine michigan militia corps last year. he's in dayton, ohio. thank you for coming on the