two ways. we can do it ourselves, thoughtfully and proactively, or we can let the bond market decide to do it. >> one of the marks on the administration, as you well know, is there's nobody like you in the administration. sometimes there's a ceo who's the treasury secretary or the commerce secretary or somebody close inside the white house. did anyone say to the president, mr. president, you need to reach out to us, not just in a meeting like this, but where are we, where are we on your team? >> no, not really. it wasn't a point of contention. and it's never been an issue with me either. i've always felt kind of that business focus is more a state of mind than having one of your 20 people be a business guy. i don't think that's as critical as the state of mind that says recognizing that business is the source of productivity, source of standard of living for the country, and a competitive dynamic business environment is essential for our competitiveness in the world. i thought that came across very clearly today. >> based on your experience, if you ran your business like washington does its business,