want, then there is no limit on federal power. what do you say to that? >> i'd like to ask orrin hatch if he made his payroll deduction payment into social security this month or medicare. the fact is, he did. and so did i. it's a system which we may or may not use, but we pay into during the course of our lifetime because we believe that having this kind of insurance for old age and for the health care in old age say good thing for our nation. similarly, bringing down the cost of health care for businesses and families, giving people some certainty about the coverage they receive is not only the humane and right thing to do for our country. it is the only way, the only way to seriously attack this deficit that we're facing. >> right. and the bottom line, senator -- the bottom line is if we don't have that mandate, that people have to buy insurance, the whole system doesn't really work because people who are healthy won't buy it until they get sick. so it wouldn't work at all in terms of bending the cost curve. so if this doesn't work out and