democratic process to you? >> abraham lincoln jumped out a second story window in springfield to avoid a vote in the illinois legislature to prevent a quorum from taking place. there are quorum rules. that's part of the game. do i think the democrats look great in this? no. do i think what's happening in wisconsin is a travesty? yes. we should not be attacking people's rights to join organizations. it's un-american, frankly. so i think people use the tools that they have. in this case, preventing a quorum from taking place is one of the tools. >> let me ask you both one quick question locally, if you will. you have asked your public unions to come to the table to negotiate increased pension. >> i have. >> they have not done so. in fact, they have said, well, you know, the math doesn't work out here that he's telling us.