great in this? no. do i think what's happening in wisconsin is a travesty? yes. we should not be attacking people's rights to join organizations. it's un-american, frankly. so i think people use the tools that they have. in this case, preventing a quorum from taking place is one of the tools. >> let me ask you both one quick question locally, if you will. you have asked your public unions to come to the table to negotiate increased pension. >> i have. >> they have not done so. in fact, they have said, well, you know, the math doesn't work out here that he's telling us. are you willing to get tougher if you can't get to the table by asking? >> i have made it clear. in the absence of these concessions we are talking about laying off thousands and thousands of people and destroying our safety net. either everyone will come to the table and we'll be successful