was recording it on the iphone. >> we can argue both ways and that creates a reasonable doubt. and reasonable doubt has to be given to the person who is under investigation. >> i'm with you although rudy, let's point something out for the audience. i'm trying to make points about credibility. you say, that doesn't make a case. then you say, well, that's reasonable doubt. what is it? do you want a legal context or -- >> you're making little points about credibility, and there's a couple of major points about the guy who you're relying on for this big story tonight. number one, he lied to people about taping them, both the president and other people. and not only that, he went to subterfuge in order to do it, like a whole little game which shows how pathological he is. second, we know that we have statements from him corroborating 100% the entire stormy daniels situation exactly as the president has told it. >> but if he's a liar, then why wasn't he lying then and trying to get over on somebody like me to get a good story for the president who he seemed to love more than his whole family? >> now you're making a summation argument that makes him totally