and almost childish to take that simplistic of view. the fence doesn't stop anybody who really wants to getting across. you go under, you go around, you go through it. >> when words come back to haunt you. childish. >> everything on tape and you have to remember that. knows are strong words, but there is some truth to what he is saying. the wail is nll is not going to everything. a lot of these people are going under wault or thll or they are into this country. but it is something that the president was able to promise his base he was going to get that done and he needs to make progress. and i'm not saying that it is the correct answer and that it will solve all the problems, but in his mind and his base, that is a good way to go about doing it. >> alice stewart, thank you so much for your time. those mulvaney comments from 2015. it is important to point out the lens here. there are some people that hear about the government shutdown,