will stop. and right now, we have yet to do that. i think some of the sanctions that have been put in place have been effective. i thank they were worthwhile. i think it was the right thing to do. but we have yet to create a sufficient deterrent, i suspect, on the russian government to end what they're doing. >> what needs to happen? what would be that deterrent? >> well, sanctions do have an effe effect. sanctions, focused, directed against the right people or entities do have an effect. more could be done there. there's more we should be on defense. for one thing, put back to work our cyber security experts and homeland security. the other day, i was in washington driving along nebraska avenue, passed my old headquarters at dhs. wednesday at 4:00. what was shocking to me was the parking lot was empty. nobody was -- almost nobody was home at the headquarters of homeland security, which includes our nation's cyber security. so we have to put these people back to work.