years ago even passed a bill to get rid of the visa lottery and it didn't go anywhere. >> tucker: who was lobbying against it? where is the lobby that wants to preserve something that makes no sense? >> thirst two forces protecting it, one is narrow, one is broader. the narrow one interestingly is the black caucus because they have now come to adopt this as their pet immigration program because a lot of people from sub-saharan africa come through it. that's the kind of narrow issue. >> tucker: has any policy -- any single policy in american history hurt african-americans even more? >> no, it's a good question. african immigration is a problem for black americans. more broadly, basically our whole political class, because the idea seems to be that immigration must never go down and must always go up. so anything that would cause immigration to go down or cast it in any kind of questionable