even though in this particular movie they start from a position of strength. so i think there's something to that as well. but another theme you explore here is the leaders in the movie are seen as weak when they want to seek peace, right? strength comes to them through wanting war and wanting aggression. do you think that's a theme that sort of resonates with people in the modern world? >> i think that's always -- one of the things cesar in talking about his character and trying to work on his character with andy and the writer, we always talked about empathy. the think about cesar is because he felt he was part human and part ape, he had connections in both worlds. it was really challenging for him as a leader because he could see the connection to the other. whereas others could sort of separate themselves, and some people see that as great leadership, but actually, i think that the great leaders can find a way to do the hard but right thing while understanding