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the bugs and want to plug them up so our software could be secure, so it couldn't be exploited, but they have an interest in finding the bugs and keeping them there so they can exploit them themselves. you have a quote from ceo of a security firm called immunity. he says you have a tendency to say let's fix all the problems, but all that does is completely defang the nsa and leave all the power in the hands of our opponents. they want to keep the bugs out there to a certain extent so the u.s. government can use them. >> the more you talk to cyber security experts, the more you realize there's no such thing. and the further we go, the more we have to deal with how do we deal with this problem? and there's people who say you know, the government should regulate and fix all the bugs and people who say this is essentially, you know, an asset for us. >> which would be impossible for them to fix all the bugs. >> like baling the ocean. no way to do it. >> i find the folks behind the hacking to be fascinating. it takes a special person to get
china's government was behind that specific attack. secretary of state john kerry played down the impact of the breach, saying it didn't appear that any sensitive material had been compromised. still, this attack combined with the recent indictment of chinese army staff for stealing data from u.s. companies makes something very clear. the future of cyber war fair isn't on some distant horizon. it's here now. we go inside the code war. and matt is here. he edited the piece. how are you? >> good. thanks for having me. >> in this article, you talk about a company that basically searches out bugs and sells them and defenses to them. in an interesting way into a big international story. tell us about that company and what it conveys about this very rapidly changing industry. >> sure, so you know, we wanted it go into the marketplace behind cyber war, so we followed a company called exodus intelligence in austin, texas.
the points of view of others. that's why i'm saying i hope that people can root for the humans in it as well, which is you're not meant to look at any of these characters and see them as villains, but you can see how villainous things happen. we wanted the movie to be kind of an anatomy of violence. those questions are what makes a great leader, some of the thick things we were grappling with. >> there are actually no apes in the planet of the apes. they are both actors and cgi, which is all technology. dock talk to us about it. what i find is interesting is you don't know when they switch, when it goes from an actor to technology. >> it doesn't actually ever go from actor to technology. the way that it works is it's all what's called performance capture, which means there is very elaborate equipment that can capture the performance, the movement. there are dots all over the actor's body so we can track both their expressions but also
about ten local and religious leaders. if there's a common theme by the president about what he said today about the economy and what he has said throughout this trip about the border crisis and immigration, it's congress. pointing the finger at congress. and in fact, telling governor perry, bring your republican friends onboard. he said he's willing to consider what both john boehner and rick perry have asked for, which is national guard at the border. but he wants that $3.7 billion voted on. he wants them to look at that. look at that appropriation. getting a lot of pushback on the senate floor yesterday. it's going to be interesting to see how that senate hearing today which is just getting under way goes, but the president, again, saying that if congress had done what it was supposed to do, if they had addressed comprehensive immigration, we wouldn't be in this situation now. even as we speak, the president making one final stop before he heads to air force one. at a local barbecue joint. he's been doing this a lot, abbey. he has been on these trips that i have traveled on him with,
their broad body movements. and then wetta, who are amazing, i think these are some of the best effects that have been done, they take that performance and find a way to it on to the body of an ape. sandy circus doesn't look like an ape and it's a real alchemy that happens between an actor. we're lookinga the some of the technology that you guys used on screen and it is cool stuff. you don't have james frank owe in this film. was it possible -- >> briefly we do. was it possible to give him a larger role just through cgi? >> by the way. i will say this, it is possible to give him a larger role through cgi. of course, if we were going to do that we would just talk tofr think you should be in the movie and because it was about caesar and what he lost and his connections to the past. franco was meant to be a powerful ghost in the story and he was never going to be in the film, but i think if we wanted
i think he wanted a big story and he needs a big story and a big splash in order to force a resolution of the border. he needs to get the border situation with the unaccompanied children out of the way or at least resolved to some degree, some stability there before he can turn to a lot of people who have been living in this country for a long time, and where the real pressure is from immigration activists which is stop the deportations. give people a break. like you did with deferred action for young people and students. >> of course, this issue is playing out differently because it's 2014, the midterms loom, it might be a little different. last year, next year, but right now, everybody is thinking about what's going to happen when voters go to the polls. too much leniency could rally republican voters. amnesty is sapowerful motivator for those folks. too little leniency could anger his tannpanics who democrats ne keep in their tent. one smart guy wrote if obama
nature and seeing it play out in this fantastical way. >> i saw it two nights ago. virtually everyone was rooting for the apes over the human beings, which was interesting. why do you think humans going to this movie and root for the apes? >> i think because -- well, first of all, i hope that they are not necessarily rooting against the humans, but there's a kind of pull i think when we go to the movies. you confront sort of your worst nightmares. one of the safe places wheria can approach our biggest fears. there's something about watching our own demise that is part of the insane kind of spectacle of genre. i think this is meant to be about empathy, and for us all to sort of hope that they also grapple through this, but there's part of you that also wants to see that war begin so you can confront that terror and in some way even indulge in the pleasure of watching our own destruction. it's a very strange -- >> that is very strange. i mean, i also feel like in a way the apes are the underdogs
even though in this particular movie they start from a position of strength. so i think there's something to that as well. but another theme you explore here is the leaders in the movie are seen as weak when they want to seek peace, right? strength comes to them through wanting war and wanting aggression. do you think that's a theme that sort of resonates with people in the modern world? >> i think that's always -- one of the things cesar in talking about his character and trying to work on his character with andy and the writer, we always talked about empathy. the think about cesar is because he felt he was part human and part ape, he had connections in both worlds. it was really challenging for him as a leader because he could see the connection to the other. whereas others could sort of separate themselves, and some people see that as great leadership, but actually, i think that the great leaders can find a way to do the hard but right thing while understanding
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