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decades of police brutality and excessive force. >> let me finish my point. maybe they're in the minority because you're presuming that the overwhelming majority of cops are bad and not really good hearted decent cops doing the right thing. >> this dispute you two are having is in the absence of facts. you don't know how many police shootings there are. >> that's the problem why don't we know? >> because we don't have good records for this. >> and you know why we don't know? because the fbi does, of course, try to get some of these numbers, but guess what, they rely upon the officers to self-report. out of the 18,000 law enforcement officers -- departments all around the country, they are supposed to self-report and that's the problem, jeff. not only is that the problem. we have our police officers investigating their own and i would say nine out of ten times they say, guess what, we didn't do anything wrong. >> absolutely. >> and that's the problem. >> but it would not be that difficult to say every time police discharge a gun to have to make some sort of report. >> right. >> most police departments,