will actually restructure the way the american economy is forever. the fed and the cbo are saying as of last week, do not take any spending out of the economy right now. if you want to cut spending, worry about that, but right now it is too fragile to do this. the republicans' only demand is that money be taken out of the economy right now. not only that, but let me be even more -- i want to be even more cynical than that. the one thing that refutes the deficit hysteria, which so ç benefits the republicans in their mission to go after medicare and medicaid is the fact that interest rates are at historic lows. you can say, oh, no one is going to lend us money, and then you look out you there, and everybody is lending us money at historically low rates. what is the one thing that could screw that up? >> debt ceiling. >> exactly. a partial default, a delayment of payment. the last time this happened it went up 50 basis points for a few months. i mean, that's a significant chunk of change. jared bernstein was calculate whatting a few weeks of sort of deferral would be. it would be about $50 billion a year. all of a sudden if you have