she was guilty of already said he accused of violating the border strictures on walkie talkies and that also of course the charge against former president when meant you don't believe these charges are true as the shore up of her of the united nations there are completely absurd and i think it is the evidence that the generals are completely out of touch is the fact that they would actually think then we would believe that there's any credibility to these charges or to that or to the justice system it is an injustice system there's no question at all in my mind about what's going on in myanmar and the protests were not sparked in my view by the arrest alongside suchi in the present day we're start by the fact that this democracy has been overturned that a country on its way making its way to respect for democracy respect for human rights. on the road was completely overturned how is it possibly on the road when the u.n. is saying in testimony at the instant in december the worst paul graham's of the century. i mean i mean the i.c.j. said it wasn't genocide against the rohingya but and the i think given for months but how was it on the road before these present protests just some kind of democratic nation. right it was a developing democracy and by that i mean if you look at what me and more looked like before we began to see elections we saw a thousands and thousands of political prisoners. in prison under horrific conditions you had a total military authoritarian state in which people had absolutely no rights whatsoever then you have an agreement then an agreement to begin to make our way into democracy another generals call it discipline democracy they had control of key ministries which of course we understand they controlled. i want to poison a quick history you mean it was like that when hundreds of thousands and tens of thousands maybe were being killed when the united states government was backing the gent i have had throughout my career concerns questions and i've been very clear about my criticisms of any inconsistency is with the united states government or any government when it comes to this but my point is this things are bad in the end more but sanctions that were established. before the elections that happened in 2015. had the effect of forcing there to be at least some semblance of a democracy so you had some civilian leadership controlling some ministries the military controlling key ministries and 25 percent of the parliament so it was what i think on the road to democracy i meant it is incremental progress it was steps ahead of when there was a total military authoritarian regime but by no means was it a regime that fully participate in democracy nor fully respected human rights the atrocities that occurred in 2017 and the discrimination that has continued with the previous government in a kind state i have been very clear and we all should be very critical of the way the regime to have been and we're continuing and continue to be treated but my point is this is that what we're seeing right now aren't. hundreds of thousands if not millions of people coming out in the streets from every corner of me and more cities large and small all ages all social and economic backgrounds to protest this coup and to protest this violation of of their of their country of their government that my answer your question was that is what is scoring this that is what is generating this not the arrest or any particularly. the arrest of well over a 1000 people. including answer city and including the president of me at one but it's an assault on the relationship that is what it is that is my point there's a lot less than the numbers arrested in paris during the john but as you say it has been deadly and the pictures are awful coming from me and ma why are you not in beijing the united states flights apparently have been occurring between china and myanmar in ma a really important component of china's bell who rode initiative the bangladesh china india economic corridor or. is it is china not the. china is very very important very important and it's why when china issued statements of criticizing the coup when china has publicly called for the release of political prisoners. china has expressed its deep concern about developments in iraq that is very helpful of course china will be very very critical when it comes to trying to address and resolve this crisis you say china is very important is it difficult as a special rapporteur given your defense of an thank sujit in the past knowing that before latest arrest she seemed to be excusing human rights crimes she had said in testimony to the un cycles of into communal violence. not the worst whole gram of this century yes we've been very critical of the government i mean this crisis is not about her or any individual leader or political party or entity this is about the people with me and they're under a shot and they're sliced into focus it has to be now you know there and some might say you know exam rooms against me and mine were just the poorest people there war would you would you say to companies like aig to them and. who still in me in my understand there have been some companies that have been were drawing from the country care in beer razor gaming the company from singapore. well i think what's important is that we have a sanctions regime that has garden recipient will we want to make sure that the sanctions have the maximum impact on the generals and their interests the revenue flowing into their pockets and the minimal minimal impact on the people of me and more so that is why we're calling for targeted focused sanctions and we also want them to be coordinated between countries will have to step up and engage in them in a sanctions regime so for example people ask well what about a it's going into me and my development aid communitarian yes it's important that that flow in the degree that it's possible it donors can provide those funds to i n g o's to the c s o's on the ground the humanitarian the government organizations who are providing vital services to the people of being one that's very very important and everything in it in energy is every added possible to avoid funneling that money through the the government of the it all that all that to the good while u.n. security council members like russia china the united states. britain they're all condemning this is this violence much less about where the crowd control weapons to fire these peaceful apparently protesters. where that's coming from you think u.s. special rapporteur may investigate where these weapons are coming from or is it the case the weapons are coming from. members of the u.n. security council well it's a good question it's a very very good question but what we're calling for is a is a global arms embargo the security council of the united nations certainly has it within its power to establish a global arms embargo but short of that if it's not possible to get there through the security checks there what we are asking for is for countries to accordingly their their their arms embargo regimes so that again we can have a maximum impact right now there are 41 countries in the world that have some form of arms embargo in place we want to increase that number and we want to make sure that all of these indoor goes are coordinated so that we can make sure we keep track on not just us but also dual use technology so that we can we can control what is going into that country and to the extent possible started from getting into the hands of the whole or may have told me a joyous sanctions in the past have caused untold misery to go balls out of countries i just want to ask you. i'm not saying your job is easy but. the other special report there from the u.n. that we have on the program have terrible times convincing people about the freedom of julian a thunder or poverty say here in britain is there a geopolitical context that makes it easier for you to convince governments about the myanmar issue and human rights who were the cia on your side in the and the communist party of china. well you know what what we're trying to focus on and i think what is. extremely important and i think we see evidence that is it is getting emerged is that this is a crackdown this is horrific what we're seeing on the streets. of me and more and it requires a a unified response that is outside of the context of geo political backgrounds even though they exist and obviously that dynamic is there. but it seems to me that we should be able to say. as a people no matter where you're from and a matter what their ideology is is that what we are seeing in me and more is borne out and it has to stop and that we need to do everything possible to make sure that it's does so which china comes forward and says we we find this this coup unacceptable there that political prisoners need to be released those are encouraging signs and encouraging steps forward and we're going to be able to build on those encouraging steps of the we can have to the greatest extent possible a unified stance against the horror that's going on in me and right now so as robert i thank you right leisure after the break we'll be speaking with david bowie photographer and lead singer morg why about challenging politics through art. some control for a middle class. most some are very hardworking people who want to get ahead that either have some some health issues or have some strict about luck the whole time he's paying for a place to live and missing just a month's rent can get she was a victim of gunpoint if anything bad happens to any thing that just throws your budget off slightly. better catch up real quick or you're going to have a judgment of possession against you and get addicted anyone that's homeless is treated like garbage people look at you like a monster or someone bad or you chose to be there most of the time it's not the case see how it is to be pull in the world's richest country. geysers financial survival guide liquid those that you can convert into gas quite easily. to keep in mind. places. for. welcome back in amongst the claims of neoliberal corrective action and promises the future cuts universal credit you catch on to the regime so that the recent budget also included an extra $408000000.00 pounds for the 0 ups but with the musician's union raising the alarm that many are still flowing through the cracks what hope is there for a cultural revival here post coronavirus while one photographer reminds us what great does you know it looks like is make rock who captured the defining images of that in reality it's like david bowie bryan ferry and debbie harry as well as taking iconic photos for all booms like the reeds transform and he pokes. rock joins me now from new york his new goal aberrated worked on the door of his own show in sale only west contemporary editions make welcome to going underground tell us about this. you interpretational than if you are i'm going underground there is a because we're circling i love to jam but the bow and the crown are mystical tell me about this new interpretation of your work may daro with thin dak some of the proceeds are going to the cash down argument cash of n.h.s. during coveted layer y s 2 servers are both mary and famed bachche i think that was the 1st thing a los about to. about street was the name. but what really struck me. was the ileum no it was maybe a year or so kind of people. so one of my agents about. air america. the graphic novel we were looking for somebody to only. the words were all right but you see the pictures it's a graphic novel anyway hence i saw something that trimmed back to a train it was just a rough sketch or something but i assumed that would be poetical army stuff because i wanted it a certain since bush it was leader was our idea this thing is utterly finch and that we were all in. my suit a bit raw the 1st 2 sets of the beach apartments which is. a are a so as to. maybe you know where the word. pictures and what strains of barry coke are a lot of these were printed early certainly was admirers. of the literary. love pictures with. then and so the significance of this date to have the release them in our 0 the 2nd of march why hasn't someone really terminated an infinity of ethics if. it's the. loo is a significant artist's early for british rockers as a spinner of the last of the last 40 years still nobody sounds like bubbly. but it was my mate for many years. and so it's a made isn't significance in a modern culture sure. unfortunately. a lot of their friends including you. and david instead freddie and. rory gallagher make runs i mean there's loads of. nola story in the course really true years ago but it was you know the almighty says whatever quiet were in my ear it was. challenged out. because if you do. this law if you're coming up here so it's a grim isn't it terry o'neill gave his last long form interview for going underground and he said that it was about is it a lot of things are those going underground because you know your answer i think he had it when he when i had to meet him but he was he was talking about how he looked from the outside in and he was also saying photography was pointless now bands because they're being run by managers and p.r. to an extent that you can actually get a photograph done everyone's that's. where are we showing every moment of the rickets or the string of words that sort of freeze it so excess that my i don't know you get to start one war of sex good pictures of a firm on. they are good so as civil as they are they need to be under more and i will know it so why is he said they you are from the inside out because you are inside the rock well i was a pretty sure 3 story i was an anybody i just got to know if. it was true that the early days of re doing yoga lower yoga and still the reader. probably saved my life for which i was throwing some dodgy behavior is. the size of an essay commission maybe giving money to the national health service and and to repairing repairing hearts here i would also ask you because woody woodman's in the last surviving spider from oz came on the show and he said he said the amazing thing about david bowie who you of course photographed so memorably made videos for the amazing thing about david bowie was he involved different classes of people social economic class some people might say yeah cambridge medieval. english rather old alt i mean this very approach is that true it's wrong. how is it how and how is it that you came to be working working with often working class artists often new middle class artists arguably is worth. of the blues a sense of middle. he was. well if you go solo things are. and david david was very structured. and i loved that service story when he was a be are all are aware of the war and they will call me a around or i just remember this poetry should. do or think of shock when. it goes up in the tray very slow 'd and you know a lot. to explain. oh you're a lot better some things but streets were all shot. he knew something about it. he was like mama it was fur. corps work but he was very skillful. we obviously don't condone drug taking on this program we were given the span of your work. do you think it not only influence obviously the arts it influenced ideas about war i mean you could you have been a war photographer i mean sometimes you make it sound like you were a little while you know why you know all that sort of a great respect for those. who consider. true of the current. state they too are still very famous in which you don't mcmullen exactly. 3 years is only certain pieces of length skirts i mean we've talked about robert kapper a lot on the program i think and we've also talked about l.s.d. and most recently most recently about m.k. ultra and the new revelations about the cia's use of it for the beat poets and all sorts of experiments with this with this hindsight what do you think the influence of l.s.d. has been on not only western culture but international culture. well i think it opened up western troops or so eastern troops so the inflow to the late sixty's where really you know it's a ship all these different this is it and they're very powerful so you can seriously which i do that's right so serious that. summary interviews musta been a sest with. with the 6 or 3 or 3 rows i was obsessed with altered states as a get there was no music. tell me see i want to again say we don't condone taking any drugs although some drug influence people are still on the curriculum here the romantic poets who you have said you you got inspiration from how how did the romantic poets influence the photography i mean we know shelley particularly at the moment because of jeremy corben and the fact that shelley was a socialist. you is in the environmental element in there and you know no one has 0 anything illicit other than somebody certainly have a very intense dislike but that monstrosity without trying and they are really gotten so bad is the poetry work in the photography writing this just the way our problems sit over those early characters' sit through david a fairy i saw them through the prism. oh mon of the saddest things you may have said you say in the amazing documentary actually about you the psycho spiritual mentor of rock here's how rebels get absorbed by establishments culture i mean it's been said said before but given the you've worked with the world with the sex pistols and work with some of the most and important valuable rebels of ever continuing in fraud only you were with lou reed a very popular summer of no into no one see it sort of. if i sort of. stiller this far because there. is so heavy i mean the was of crystals that start. it was icky restart in 67. so. who says some are so so so and there are and. it was also you know what the who the linseed chair of the. great choreographer a bit of it states from the make up you know mess where i snatch it i mean this is a political program i would ask you given that jagger obviously associated with anti vietnam protests debbie had there and he war protests and a nuclear protest bowie the celebrated line about nixon on young americans. we conscious of the politics and the antiwar messages of all the artists who were most famous for photographing electric ferry was that just as. he played so he lived anywhere so please tell him it is a lesson i don't recall having you know when sexuality you know somebody i do it. so you know it's a star. and there and. no you think they were you know they're into the our they didn't really go into politics and ruin our lives or. yes i have the situations and sentences but i'm not going to go around you know a whole chain from. us but clearly your pictures are so redolent all these stars the importance of these stars i know. you. spoke to david bowie about it when bowie told you we don't exist these stars so is it really only your photographs for your theology if you say we are your sister well actually . it's it is this that they did was good philosophic if you're sure. but charlie resurrected sure that he was better look at them all sal and so i just wonder when there is your photographs that other way the way they these stars appear in our minds i'm going to also ask you how safe your archive is because in the documentary i saw you got them all in cardboard boxes how there is no metal pins and thing on this earth there where there's a lot of stuff goes all the work still life you don't know the right somebody to. live in say must share in the folks is a good enough to shoot far away time and change in the effect on the boxes. so i'm scared there's a matzoh you coa get that. but that's not true either or. if you should if you were only interested in the pictures there were no more i must sure me who are playing here in the middle are images are on show and sale