presidential pond 71 campaign stops, those people are disenfranchised, those people feel left out of the system, we turned blue collar people who were once economically aspirational, the home i grew up in, into economic desperation, he is the appetite for the anger, he can do anything. >> what i'm trying to envision is the first one or two debates, he is not there, let's say he's not there, how do these other candidates, again your guy aside if he does make it to the debate stage, are they just going to little questions about donald trump say nothing to see here, we're not paying attention? >> i think that's why the indictment charges being so specific and dramatic are actually really important because it has given people space to say even though this is a federal government you saw nikki haley, ron desantis i would've been court marshaled if i handle documents like this, but this is a -- an fitness and they will try to use the substance of the case at the same time walking a pretty thin line the problem is, this doesn't start with donald