hitting 2,000 deaths a day. so i can't stress enough we have to stop the happy talk about omicron. this is still a very serious pathogen, especially in light of the fact that so much of our health care workforce is getting knocked out at home with covid on unable to take care of the sick. that's another reason why mortality goes up as well. >> absolutely. with this there's also kind of the big question of what does it mean that everyone got infected so quickly? with so many people getting infects do quickly, what does it mean for natural immunity and moving this pandemic into maybe an endemic phase? because dr. fauci says we don't know yet if this is going to happen this year. but when do you think we will know? >> so here's what i think, and for transparency, there is not consensus in the scientific community, and the next person you bring on may say something completely different. but i'm of the opinion that omicron is not going to produce significant and durable