the third thing, chris, is just like doesn't anybody around rudy giuliani actually care about him enough to tell him, look, even if this is a lawful thing you're doing, it's an awful idea? in this time period for you to be over there doing this, talking to those people, it just looks bad. you're not helping yourself, you're not helping your client, if he is your client, the president of the united states, it's a really bad idea. presumably people around him care about him and somebody needs to step in and tell him this is a bad idea, man. >> andy, i'll bounce it to you. the balance is going to be we're doing it in plain sight because it's not wrong because the bidens are dirty. i know this sounds like some lawyer issue at home. i'm telling you it isn't. if he doesn't have the privilege at his disposal, all the conversations he had with the president and any form they've been recorded on any level are open to discovery in this process. and that would be a big deal. and on side of the ethical problems and campaign financing violations for both of them, no? >> yes.