of command to insert himself into the disciplinary action. he's been troubled by that for a long time. but it does seem he also tried to work his way around that without going through proper channels with secretary esper. i think both things are true. >> what's your take on the overall result here? which is the navy secretary a out and eddie gallagher is keeping his trident. >> it's terrible. it's terrible the president of the united states inserted himself in this. he's in the chain of command, but when you go that far down, you don't know what you're doing. i've had a number of cases as a member of the armed services committee where people have come to me saying the is is unfair. the thing that troubles me is i don't know. i'm not the person's commander. i wasn't there in the field. you have to respect the leadership chain below you. and the president didn't do that. and i think right now every service member has to be asking themselves is my immediate superior -- i can just go around him. do i have to listen to them? >> from what i've heard, the