and discussing with them. they would come back with stories 10 times better of fighting against russia. guys showed pictures of kpwaplt damage on their airplanes from their cell phones. it puts things in perspective. all of this discussion about whether or not ukraine belongs in nato. they're rock stars when it comes to russia and fighting russia. they've got the most experience in europe at it. really they're the only people who are doing it and have been doing it. i don't think you need to make a case. these guys are doing amazing work right now. >> do you think they're doing it to an extent with one hand tied behind their backs? do they have the equipment to make it an equal fight against the russians? >> they don't have the technological -- you know, they're not on the same level of russia technologically, and they don't have the numbers russia has. but you are seeing them fight with tenacity we haven't seen. in defending their territory in europe, in the air repeat lid