able to testify and did testify. did this new ruling now give some cover to those who said, look, i have to. my rock and my hard place has gone away. the judge says we got to do it and mcgahn is a good litmus test for us. >> i'd like to say yes but i have to say no because this ruling was already issued in 2008 by judge john bates who i worked with in ken starr's whitewater independent counsel. and judge bates said in 2008, listen, there is no such thing as immunity for people who work for the president. and in fact, when presidents nixon and president clinton went up to the supreme court challenging subpoenas, they both lost. and so the argument is, listen, if presidents don't have absolute immunity from subpoenas, certainly the advisers, the people that work with the president don't have absolute immunity. this challenge, this claim really was something that was off the edge or on the edge of what is legally even legitimate for a lawyer.