floor in shreveport, louisiana attempted, it didn't happen. we believe it is going to happen and we hope to be there when it does. do you what administration letter. what's in that report on interrogations? we take a closer look at britain's lockerbie taurus was during a convicted terrorist video for oil? how high up to the decision go. and the $9 trillion budget deficit, why even that forecast may be overly optimistic. "the journal editorial report" begins right now. samad welcome to the "journal editorial report" and paul should go. >> paul: air colder it made a special prosecutor this week to investigate allegations of cia abuse against high-level terror tds. the appointment of federal prosecutor john durham came the same day as the release of a 2004 internal cia report detailing that agency's interrogation program. just what is it not once classified report question mark could colder be starting a political war that president obama will live to regret is to mark joining the panel will miss the deputy editor stevens printed on this very and stacy all ready. ushered in columnist jim stossel and brian carney joins us from london as the editorial page editor of the "wall street journal" europe. ken, you have read these documents. what's the lesson you take away from it. >> the press jumped all over this i think with some prodding from the administration suggesting this is yet more proof of abuse at the hands of an unleashed cia. when you read these things but actually jumps out at you is that this was actually carefully developed, carefully controlled, widely agreed to congress and it yielded invaluable results. >> paul: breath? >> that's the key point. there is this obsessive focus with a handful of instances where investigators potentially went over the line although it's important to note that when career justice department prosecutors looked at these cases for years ago, they ruled that they did not merit badge. >> paul: this is interesting. this is an internal report that was begun in 2004. >> and was shared with congress to ensure to congress turned over to justice and career prosecutors did not prosecute except in one case obvious where a detainee was killed by being hit on the head apparently with a flashlight. that interrogator was prosecuted for assault and convicted. >> i think it's a key point to note the people who looked into this work career prosecutors. this wasn't the bush administration are appointees going against the bureaucracy of the justice department. >> park, the other thing about this that jumps out besides the fact that the report says the counterterrorism center did a commendable job in staying within the rule of law and interrogating these detainees, is that the interrogators reported that they were quite concerned that they were going to be, at a later date, prosecuted in some way. they suspected the u.s. government would not stand behind him even though they were following the rules. that's precisely about what will happen to them speak when one quote said that ten years from now we will regret this but it must be done. another thing that's interesting here, brian, is the results that were relayed about how they very useful information that ended up exposing including plots to attack the u.s. consulate in karachi, hijack aircraft and fly them into heathrow, these tracks bikes to derail u.s. trains, and several others. had any of those happened, of course, it would've meant the death of innocent americans *custom ) and one of the lines we hear over and over again is torture doesn't work. torture is ineffective. nothing detailed in this report honestly except for the one case that was prosecuted really looks like what most people would think of as torture. i think people get treated worse every day in the police stations in major cities around america. but the fact is these enhanced interrogation techniques do seem to have saved american lives, exposed to plots that could have been extremely deadly, and that probably would have led to a lot of worse things being done to even the detainees that we have and try to stop the next one. >> paul: this is a critical point. critics of what happened say there is no evidence that enhanced interrogations made a difference. the detainees would've given us this information anyway. is there something in the report shows in fact the enhanced interrogation techniques any difference? >> the report is very clear that people like david chick mom and were extremely resistant to questioning and give up unreliable or very little information before the enhanced interrogation techniques are introduced. i think there's no question that the made a difference in the material that was produced here so i'm all right, ken, given all this, why would air colder, the attorney general, do this now is to not in the past he said look, we don't want to go after low-level cia interrogators. and the president himself has said often, i would look forward and not back. another people in the white house who think we really don't want to take this political fight. so what changed was to mark some and not know what changed. there seems to be two modes of thought here or at either air colder it seems to be of the ideological bent that this is something that needs to go back despite the fact as we mentioned that other career prosecutors said there was nothing here. either he is of the belief there is actually something from a purist view or it could be this is a political move by the white house to try to appease their left wing. they have been unhappy by the fact that the administration retain some of bush era terror policies and with the way healthcare is quite right now, that the public option may not make it into a final bill so this might've been sent out as a way to pacify the troops. it's interesting because it doesn't work. i haven't been happy. actually got a lot of criticism from the left they had not gone further. meanwhile what they've done is make republicans even less likely to want to work with them on some of the stuff in washington see when is it possible and having a prosecutor at the administrative -- menstruation and then he comes back and says there's nothing to prosecute and it goes away tonight we have a 30 year are a must for your history of special prosecutors who always turn out to surprise the administrations, if that's in fact the strategy here. it seems to me the obama administration is pure you either. you get to the fork in the road you take it. they're trying to appease their left flank while the president is saying i want to look forward not back. >> paul: a lot of reports about how upset me onto that is, the cia director. he did not want to do this. time and time again when he had a face-off with eric holder, eric holder has one. >> again, i think leon panetta understands that we need some of these interrogation techniques if we're going to take on this enemy. i don't think he wants to be associated with a decision by the president that could have a very long-term cost in terms of the way we fight the war. as another thing going on hear which is that the democrats have always thought we should fight the war as a -- sort of a law-enforcement problem. and that's kind of the path they're going down. now we're going to litigate all of these problems rather than fight the war on terror on how far we've come from post 2011 world. when we come back, the uk luck to be outraged by the deadliest terror attacks against americans until september 11, and 1 of the man responsible is now free. did the british government cut a deal with libya in return for lucrative contracts was marked i think i'll go with the preferred package. good choice. only meineke lets you choose the brake service that's right for you. and save 50% on pads and shoes. meineke. real food at the right price! this is the primo stuff. one appetizer and two premium entrees. just twenty bucks-every day. genuine food. generous portions. genius price. 2 for $20! only at applebee's. - oh, come on. - enough! you get half and you get half. 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( chirp ) boss? what do we do with the shih-tzu? - ( crowd gasps ) - ( chirp ) joint custody. - phew! - announcer: get work done now. communicate in less than a second with nextel direct connect. only on the now network. deaf, hard of hearing and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com. >> paul: ridge is growing in the uk and the u.s. over the heroes welcome given to convicted lockerbie bomber abdel bassett ali megrahi. upon his return home to libya. he was released from a scottish prison after serving eight years of a 27 year sentence for the downing of pan am 103 in december of 1988. 270 people including 189 americans died. doubts are mounting about the government's claim that it had no hand in the scottish justice minister's decision to release the grotty was apparently dying of prostate cancer. while brian, you are in london. this is becoming full-blown political uproar over there. how credible is the claim that megrahi was released for unitarian reasons eschenbach. >> i don't think we know exactly why kenny mccaskill released in yet. this is what we do know. we know that gordon brown talk to moammar khadafy about to release six weeks ago soon he is the prime minister brittain. >> is the prime minister of britain. his most important deputy, peter mandelson discussed it with moammar khadafy son a couple weeks ago when they were vacationing together in corfu and another gordie brown, the prime minister, who before kenny mccaskill publicly announced it, that megrahi was going to be released this order brown wrote a letter to moammar khadafy pleading with him to keep megrahi's return to libya at loki, which was a request that the libyans gave the back of the hand to, which goes to show what happens when you try to deal with people like in the qaddafi regime. >> paul: we also know a libyans made megrahi a priority in a private internal discussions. imagine it would mandelson, and with others and they want him released. correct? >> correct. could i be sense of the day after his release that in every negotiation over every contract or anything that came up between the libyans and the british government, that megrahi was on the table. that's what qaddafi son a fairly told megrahi on the plane on the way to libya. the plane that was waiting for him before his release was even announced because the libyans were so certain they were going to get him back to the one we know there have been oil contracts that london received. >> one recent $900 million contract. gordon brown has talked of libya's potential for british companies. the british spymaster who helped bring in moammar khadafy from the cold in 2003 when qaddafi decided to abandon his nuclear weapons programs, batman, that former intelligence and is now a senior executive at bp so gordon brown's claim that the decision belonged to this scottish justice minister alone, and that that decision was based purely on so-called compassionate grounds does he ostensibly is dying of prostate cancer, is very hard to sustain. this is already a government with almost no credibility but the government who want a big uproar robert mueller f.b.i. director in the u.s. sent a very rough letter denouncing essentially the decision. and of course the families of the victims are also outraged here in the states. >> i'm kind of wondering where was the u.s. in all of this question mark state department's job is diplomacy. we're supposed to have a relationship with the uk. the u.s. is supposed to have some influence in the world. i'm worried that the obama administration has spent all of its resources trying to force tegucigalpa to take men while celaya back and forgot about this for the world. >> paul: a former president of honduras. >> that's their big issue. the amount you have something like this developing and we're not even there? see when a writer who contributes for us thanks to that he wanted to make a statement welcoming back the grotty despite being warned by john mccain and in the british because the 40th anniversary of the libyan revolution is coming up september 1 and he wanted a big domestic show what he could achieve on the world stage to make the british were prepared to send prince andrew one of the royals to celebrate. what are they going to celebrate? the domestic butchery and libya are the terrorism overseas? or that he is a master of rubbing the westin nose in it. >> paul: we did this deal with libya in 2003. he gave -- that he give up his nuclear program, and that was a big -- a big strategic victory. he did that in the wake of the iraq invasion probably because in part because of the iraq invasion. and he wanted something in return. i think the brown government would say look, this is not that big of a deal. megrahi was going to die in prison anyway, and we need to engage the libyans. >> but megrahi should've died in prison. gadhafi didn't do the deal over his nuclear weapons because he had suddenly become a trustworthy and terrific guy, right? he did it because he was afraid after iraq about what happened to him if he didn't. and what we saw in the way that they treated gordon brown's request to at least be discreet about this, right, brown did not say -- hasn't said anything about the substance of the decision, even to this day. all he said is he was repulsed by the reception that megrahi received in libya. and what we saw was that you know, libya hasn't changed its spots, right? it'd be nuclear deal because it feared the consequences of not doing it. but here they clearly saw no downside in getting this guy back and then rubbing the british at jason at two and a big embarrassment for gordon big embarrassment for gordon brown. that's a-- tiny netbook. yeah, it's-- good-looking, lightweight. generally awesome. and you could just-- go online, video-chat with my cousin. this is un-- under $200. are you some kind of-- mind reader, visionary ? no, i have them. huh. the new lightweight hp mini netbook with windows and america's largest and most-reliable 3g network built in. only 199.99 with mobile broadband plans from 39.99 i am-- speechless, envious. wanna be me right now. getting one. ♪ bicycle, what are we waiting for? 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well reality struck this week when the obama white house and congressional budget office both announced the deficit over the next decade will balloon to more than $9000. $2 trillion more than predicted earlier this year. even those revised projections are public optimistic. mary, trillion dollars here trillion dollars there for most people it's a distraction. but what do these deficits mean economically? >> when you have a deficit you have to issue debt in order to get the money. and what the congressional budget office has said is that the amount of debt that the government is going to have to issue is unsustainable. you have to find somebody who will buy your debt and give you that money and you have to service the debt and you eventually have to repay it. so this isn't money for nothing. it has to come from somewhere and it's not sustainable. >> paul: obama's argument would beat we needed to run these deficits. i inherited hon of it. besides, we have a big recession we need attorneys deficits because they help to stimulate the economy, to the soundtrack and this is only temporary. >> generally that's what you would hope. you have a deficit but to start growing it if you grow fast enough that you can pay down what you will. but the problem is that the projections for growth.buckroe good. and part of the reason is because once the debt gets to a certain level, politicians start stepping in and saying a hot, we have a problem where we don't have enough money. we need to raise taxes. once you start raising taxes, you kill the growth and if you do that you're not going to get out of the problem. that's why some countries and either going into default or they end up having to print money at the central bank in order to pay. >> these monster deficit projections are based on estimates of congressional spending which are just wildly on realistic. the suggest gem by peter or second is group. >> paul: the white house budget director. >> is that commerce will increase spending at the rate -- >> paul: that this is not a congress that you have come to know and love that can control spending? under you accuse those commerce people that. >> you've answered your question their call. and the other thing is what i -- >> paul: on trying to intimidate chris matthews and asked him how questions. >> conservative obama supporters went on for years saying the reason we are pros approach is he is from these monster budget deficits he has let spending get out of control on or to be heard from now that obama is creating a trend out of debt over the next ten years so i'm glad brian. >> bush was criticized for doubling the national debt and these latest projections say that obama will more than double the national debt again and he will do it and have the time. as you say the reality is that it will be worse than that. this is not temporary. $99 of new debt is forever because we have to pay it off or we have to continue buying it for ever and pay the interest on it with tax dollars forever. another $99 and that is huge. >> paul: kim, any evidence at all this is beginning to sink in on capitol hill and also down their spending? spending this year as a share of the economy will be 26%. the average over the last 40 years is 21%. that's a very big change. >> i think it is sinking into the townhouse ec across america on healthcare. this is something new, administration and congress didn't think about. they spend crazily at the beginning of the year and as a result they put these deficit numbers in the middle of the health care debate with everyone saying can we really afford to do this. you're beginning to here democratic senators and congressmen saying this is going to be too costly. maybe we need to put this off. but in terms of evidence of actually seeing most of congress lowdown, you'll see that anywhere on either can sing silver lining department. the deficits may end up defeating at least in a very expensive healthcare program. >> that's true