>> yes, that's correct. i mean it was twofold. in some ways, mark meadows is a bet of a conspiracy theorist himself. >> right. >> you know, we're told from other people that he actually believed that there might be some merit to the idea that there was actually foreign interference in the elections, and not in terms of sort of, you know, russian misinformation but in terms of an italian defense contractor working with the cia to switch votes from trump to biden, which i should be clear did not happen. >> yes. >> so part of it is he was personally open to bits of it. the other part is, again, he was a supplicant trying to please then-president trump. what trump wanted, he wanted to hear these things. trump and you mentioned john kelly, his previous chief of staff, they clashed because john kelly says if you're going to call the president, go through the white house switchboard. and the president wanted to dial people late at night from his cell phone. and meadows again wanted to do what the president wanted. so that meant making the west wing sort of this "star wars"