anti-democratic in a profound way. that's the big story of 2021. in this episode tonight, two people who have been really at the forefront of identifying, warning and fighting against these tendencies. one of the people is cherilynn. she's stepping down after awe a -- nearly a decade leading the naacp fund. she's one of the most social critics, legal thinkers we have. one of the best voting rights lawyers in the country. i got to talk with her. the nature of american democracy, what it has been, what it is now and what it could be. we will bring you that in a moment. first i spoke with barton gelman. he is one of america's most respected journalists.