winning elections by convincing the american people to vote for them. he believes in winning elections by taking control of the machinery of elections. it is an incredibly dangerous trend. we see legislative action, we see these pro trump candidates running. that is what the american people will most need to be on guard against an upcoming midterm elections. >> yeah, there is legislative fixes, there's discussions about how there is legislative 's that are proposed that are more sweeping by democrats they guarantee a baseline electoral access. there's other stuff about reforming the electoral count act. i keep coming back to this idea that there is something -- you almost can't legislate your way out of one of two parties in a liberal democracy. essentially, withdrawing from the basic legitimacy of liberal democracy as a collective undertaking. it is what we are watching happen in realtime. >> yeah, that is absolutely right. i mean, the electoral count act