strategy to it. i think that by pinning it all on one person, he's trying to make the case weaker. but as you said, the whistle-blower doesn't really matter at this point. now, democrats have talked to about 13 witnesses, more transcripts are supposed to be released today. about the wide-ranging, long dating back conspiracy to pressure the ukrainians to launch these politically-motivated investigations. now, we have one of giuliani's associates saying that as early as may they were threatening the ukrainians to hold up this aid and saying that the white house summit might be on the line unless they investigated the bidens. so there are a lot of people here who seem to have receipts and the more the president pushes back and throws these people under the bus, it seems like the more it's going to come back to bite him. >> natasha and hans nichols, thanks to both of you. hans is outside trump tower. and the list gives pretty good indications wh indications of what they're focusing on and it's not the president or his administration. according to the washington post, the list includes hunter