i would start with revenues in maybe some other parts of the budget where there's room to save without increasing poverty and hunger. >> yeah because this is a problem. we're the richest country in the world but we have 40 million people who are food insecure. that's remarkable number. they don't really know where the next meal is going to come from. they may get food. they may get it from some assistance program or -- or a shelter or a food pantry. but the fact is, that's what america is. let's just talk about the people who are most affected by this change. it doesn't sound entirely unreasonable that people who can work should work. so what's the problem with this change that is gonna kick 700,000 people off this program? >> well, this is a group of people who are unemployed. they're not non-workers. they are, in fact, often in and out of the labor force. the jobs that they have are unstable. don't offer consistently 20 hours a week. so part of the problem is that the job market that's available to them doesn't match the rule that the administration wants to