particular defenses of the president of the united states. saying this is hearsay evidence, there's a due process problem, that perhaps sondland and giuliani were freelancing on their own. the problem the house republicans have with every single one of their defenses is they have no idea whether or not those defenses can be contradicted by fact witnesses who heard things first-hand as they saw david holmes do today in this closed door testimony. he has basically destroyed a number of lines of argument that the republicans are going to use to try and defend the president because he was there and the facts just do not support what they are arguing. >> glenn kirschner, i just want to give you kind of a wide open field for the prosecutors' view of david holmes' testimony. the thing that occurs to me is, wow, this is very sharp contradiction with gordon sondland, and this seems to put gordon sondland in some real trouble, real pressure with his testimony next week. >> it sure does, lawrence. and i have two quick observations, one on form and one on substance.