that preacheded him to quit. >> he did decide for his own reasons that his effectiveness was going to be compromised. >> is this having to do with the fact that some social conserve tives appeared to be publicly going after him? >> well, i don't want to speak for rick, but i will say of course there were voices of intolerance that expressed themselves during this debate. that was unfortunate. >> his job, just because he was gay, would have been the most extreme thing to happen if it weren't for the amendment one 234 north carolina. amendment one that goes before voters this tuesday may be the most underreported political story in america right now. taken with the controversy, it showcases a disturbing trend over antigay forces. every state in the south has a constitutional amendment restricting marriage to heterosexual couples. but amendment one would go further. it would make marriage between one man and one woman the only domestic legal union that shall be valid or recognized in this state. that would not only ban same sex marriage, but also civil unions. and the amendment could threaten certain legal protections. in fact, one poll showed that once people know what the proposal actually does, it would ban any domestic union other than a man and a woman. so what i found fascinating about these two cases is i think there's a little bit -- and i think rightfully triumphalism in folks that are pushing for equality, because the polling really encouraging. and sort of remarkable. nothing else seems to change in as rapid a fashion. if you spend your time thinking about politics, in particularly progressive politics, i don't think there's a single other issue where it feels like the wind is at your back in the same way that the fight for equality on this score does. and, yet, the firing seemed a massive step back, i thought. i thought that we had all agreed that in public life, you could be openly gay and not just be fired for it, although, of course, legally you can still be fired for being gay. and then, amendment one in north carolina, which the polling looks like, as it currently stands, is likely to pass. i wonder if anyone feels like we've gotten out ahead. this is a useful reminder of how the prejudices are. >> if a drunken man is about to fall into the gutter, than we can be assured he'll do some lurches away from the gutteder. i think that's what this is. but when automobiles came in, there were horse and buggy clubs. that didn't mean that cars were having a problem and that horse and buggies were going to stay in. so i think because of the inhere inherent conserve tichl, we're going to see reverses of this kind. but certainly, my classes are at clam bebee yeah and i have students casually talking about the fact that they're gay. it's great. never would have happened six or ssfp years ago. that's just one part of society, but i think where we're going is clear. there will be these spikes and random backward sort tis of things. i am at least not that worried about them. i feel like this is my perennial theme. the republican party has moved significantly to the right from where it was even during the bush years. i can't imagine something like the granell thing happening. i think that mitt romney, some having to do with the party and some having tho do with social conservatives, kind of more, in a lot of ways, has to be more responsive to the extreme forces in his party because he's so distrusted. and there was also a whole other con influence of things. it might not have happened has he not, as we were talking about before, made all of these sexist tweets at a time when mitt romney is kind of full out rage. >> and my dear friend and cleg who he had all sorts of totally neanderthalish tweets. >> that would actually seem like homophobic. >> what i think is interesting is one, we're in the ae area of self assassination for twitter. he was literally hosted by his own -- >> which is amazing because he's a communication expert. >> right. >> but i think this is part of the first of all, the modern media. and the fact that all of his credentials, his references were checked. it's a role of particular modern american politics. the reality is both sides recognized is going to be an incredibly slow race. and thirdly, what is the most ironic, is that gradell was hired because of his credentials and has had to resign because of his sexuality. it's also shown that the romney camp, given how far right the rub publy can party is, did not think about his sexuality. >> i think they did. i mean, chris, i wanted to hear you. but i just want to enter this on the record qs which is brian fisher who acts behind this. he's the one who said the personnel is policy. obviously, i find the guys views pretty odious. but let me get this straight. firgs first of all, he attends to court the lgbt community by throwing off the profamily community under the bus. then, when he gets backlash, he doesn't fire him. he just lets him out there to dry. and then alienating everyone. >> i wanted to say that this is not just about eh kalt. this is not just about science. they actually believe that same sex marriages are bad for children. the evidence doesn't support this at all. but it's one of those things about home ma sexuality, the idea that you can choose to be gay, which is not the case. >> that's actually, don't you all think, i think that we're in this moment where there's an absolute war on the modern american family in all of these different ways. the idea that through legislation, you're trying to enshine one woman, one man. and the modern american family just looks very, very different. so with the assault on the voting rights, with the war against women and where we are now with the north carolina amendment, i feel like the republicans, first of all, because it's not a winning political strategy. i think there's a few things here. along all sorts of metrics, things are getting better from the perspective of people who like traditional family. divorce rates have gone down. teen pregnancy has gone down shockingly. it's a huge dins. so if you actually look at the data, it's not like -- if ewe look at the data and you combine it with a fairly standard, normative sense of what the family should be, which is, you know, women shouldn't get preying nan when they're 15. divorce is bad for kids and family should stay together, things are looking up. i think when you said -- i don't think there's a contradiction but there hr these high divorce rates. divorce rates tend to be pretty high. it's certainly not under attack for gay marriage, but maybe for modern k579 lichl. if someone is coming along and say i'm going to explain to you why your own life feels insecure and why these primary relationship that is you've kochl to depend on have now become some tenuous, that's really powerful. if things are really changing and there's a certain wind at our backs, then naturally, people are going to start crying louder. we can wait for that. we can aleutian know -- i would netted call it a war. those people are losing. we have to listen to their noise. >> this is the nature of left and right, when you think about it is that, you know, the next generation of conservatives are going to be fine. >> when you poll conservatives under 30. >> yes, conservativism is best defined as a position of change. once there's a new status quo, then you see that with. you've always got to drag some people a little bit. but i think with this one, the win is definite. >> i would just agree. >> i was thinking the difference between if liberality of what people are going through in their actual lives versus, once again, the fact of being in an election year and what is becoming political severity gee in order to ascertain how can we navigate winning the presidential election. and between those two spaces, what romney's camp is willing to do becomes more and more extreme because it's not rooted in anything that has untag rio. >> you have two people running against each other who are fairly averse. ened a if someone comes before you and says should we cut this guy loose? yes. cut him loose. you have much bigger battles to wage, right? i'm not talking from a moral per spective. i'm talking under a purely strategic per speblgtive. you start making these very, very crass calculations of interests and benefits and losses. i want to turn to someone who is in north carolina and who is doing amazing work organizing against amendment one and for equality throughout the entire south. we're going to talk to her right after this break. what happens when classroom teachers get the training... ...and support they need? schools flourish and students blossom. that's why programs like... ...the mickelson exxonmobil teachers academy... ...and astronaut sally ride's science academy are helping our educators improve student success in math and science. let's shoot for the stars. let's invest in our teachers and 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(female announcer) most life insurance companies look at you and just see a policy. at aviva, we do things differently. we're bringing humanity back to life insurance. that's why only aviva rewards you with savings for getting a check-up. it's our wellness for life program, with online access to mayo clinic. see the difference at avivausa.com. ♪ >> shout out to the recently ak mc of the beastie boys. we'll be give ying some verses as we go throughout the day here. i want to bring in the executive director of the campaign for southern equality. they've been doing incredible work through what they call a we do campaign throughout the entire south fighting for marriage eh walt and now faithing against mcneck's very extreme amendment one. reverend thank you so much. it's so good to have you on the program. >> good morning, chris. great to be with you. skbl first, i was talking foe a few people from north carolina yesterday and trying to get a sense of why now. it's interesting that north carolina is a hold out in that most of the states around it have state constitutional amendments. why is this being pushed now? >> well, the answer to that really is about state politics. this amendment has actually been introduced every year since 2004 and ended up being killed in committee. and then the republicans gained control for the first time in over a century in north carolina and 4 was part of the agenda that they brought with them and had the votes to get it out of committee and obviously to pass it. gld will you tell me what it looks like on the ground there? the polling is a little difficult and a little unreliable. it does seem that there's a huge gap between what people support for it in the abstract and then their support for it once they fiend out just how extreme the provision is. in fact, it has even drawn condemnation from folks who work for "traditional marchage." the amendment means knock neck could not now or ever devise any poll sick of same sex partners. that's methodty cold. if you don't care where wl they and their families permanently rely on their laws, it might be a cup of tea. but it's not our view. what do you make of this -- this condemnation from the folks working against marriage equality and other circumstances that this law is so extreme and do north carolina voters have a sense of just how extreme it is? >> well, you're exactly right. the landscape here is very charged and dynamic right now. the 30 other states that have looked at amendments like this, but in other ways, this is 2012 and it's a volatile, political moment. and a lot of leaders in the republican party have come out against amendment one which has been unexpected but i think speaks precisely to the polling you're alluding to. right now, polls show that we're 14 points down. the polls have been tightening in recent weeks. and the polls also show, as you said, that folks also said this would ban civil unions and partnerships. and there's a clear majority of folk who is actually oppose it. so obviously, we want folks to understand everything that's at stake. and i'm going to put in a plug for early voting. today is the last day. so after you watch the show, if you're in north carolina, please go out and vote against mendment one. but i think what we also see in that polling data is ha the tide is turning in north carolina. but whatever happens on may 8th is that we will still be second class citizens on may 9thened that we still have work to do to achieve full equality. that's precisely why we're launching the next stage of the we do campaign on the morning of may 9th to send a very clear message that north carolina is our home. that lgbt families live literally in every town and county across our state. and want especially for children who have been hearing horribly moe ma phobic comments for months now, that there are people all across the country who are willing to stand up for their equality. >> i've been really struck with a video that you did and i wanted to show that to all the folks at home right after we take this quick break. 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[ male announcer ] for fruits, veggies and natural green tea energy... new v8 v-fusion plus energy. could've had a v8. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about the cookie-cutter retirement advice ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 you get at some places. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 they say you have to do this, have that, invest here ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 you know what? ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 you can't create a retirement plan based on ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 a predetermined script. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, we actually take the time to listen - ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 to understand you and your goals... ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 ...so together we can find real-life answers for your ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 real-life retirement. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 talk to chuck ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 and let's write a script based on your life story. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 >> so we've come today to put on record that we are married in massachusetts? >> are you a teacher? >> yes. >> okay. i want you to know that this office respects equality. however, i am not able to issue a marriage license to you. sk sk >> when carol went to north carolina and said i'm not allowed to issue you a marriage license. >> okay. all right. well, we know that you're doing your job. and we just hope that one day, you will be able to grant this kind of license to us and my family. >> i hope so. >> we've been together for 25 years. we're in our mid 60s. can you tell us what steps we might take to become full and equal citizens under the law? before we die? can you help us with that? >> a really powerful video. we have reverend jasmine beach farara on the line. tell me about the we do campaign. the footage that we've just seen which have been running or helping to run in both north carolina or other states. well, the we do campaign involves couples requesting marriage licenses. the reason we do this is to put a human face on an issue that is all too often debated in highly political terms. these are real people. people who are our neighbors, our friends, fobs who are our public servants. this is what it looks like when a discriminatory law is enforced. and the premise is obviously building on a very rich tradition of civil rights organizing in the south. about ordinary real people doing that because they feel like, as citize citizens, they deserve equal protection under the law that's being denied to them. and they feel moved and compelled to act. >> we'll be beginning the third stage on the morning of may 9th. we'll be doing these actions in eight communities across north carolina. some of them will be town with fewer than 500 residents. we elite be using civil disobedience, which takes the form of a sit in when someone has refused a marriage license. >> this is michelle goldburg. on the one hand, these videos are obviously incredibly moving. but you are kind of conceding when the debate is about gay marriage when potentially, the more winnable argument is the fact that this is going to ban civil unions on a state where you already have a ban on gay marriage. this is a law to ban civil unions. that's the point of it. that's the change from the stae stows quo. >> well, that's a great question. and there's really two separate issues here. the we do campaign is a growing campaign. what we're calling for is full federal equality. our analysis is that federal equality is the most efficient mechanism. particularly in southern states achieving equality in areas of employment, health care, and relationship recognition. now, obviously, when something like amendment one surfaces, we have to play defense. we have to do our best to hold the line and our partners and folks literally are working around the clock and at the same time, it's critical for us to be looking beyond what happens on may 8th and saying that this is an issue that our whole country is messing with and we think ultimately will be resolved on the federal level and the south has a critical role to play. and that's the premise of the we do campaign. >> reverend, if you wouldn't mind sticking around, john has a question, i've got a few more questions. [ donovan ] i hit a wall. and i thought "i can't do this, it's just too hard." then there was a moment. when i decided to find a way to keep going. go for olympic gold and go to college too. [ male announcer ] every day we help students earn their bachelor's or master's degree for tomorrow's careers. this is your moment. let nothing stand in your way. devry university, proud to support the education of our u.s. olympic team. devry university, proud to support the education (female announcer) most life insurance companies look at you and just see a policy. at aviva, we do things differently. we're bringing humanity back to life insurance. that's why only aviva rewards you with savings for getting a check-up. it's our wellness for life program, with online access to mayo clinic. see the difference at avivausa.com. ♪ >> all right works're back from north carolina. john, you had a question for her? >> reverend, i just wanted to know as a point of clarification, is this law being publicized or discussed in a way that seems deliberately crafted to distract from the fact that this is things about domestic unions, civ