would solve all of this, the restoration of capital requirements, on one page, not 3,000 pages, not 10 pages, paragraph even, maybe two. instead of doing that, we have responded to this complex system with an even more complex regulatory response from a group of people who don even understand they are regulating and instead of giving them the one thing that everybody needs, don't gamble with other people's money, boys and girls. can you do that? they refuse to do that. once they put that rule in place the government is irrelevant. now i don't have any -- now i don't get to be in charge. i don't have to write anything. i'm like -- oh. and am i surprised i'm still talking about this in 2012? yes, i am. mike mayo is here. this place is chop a block. they forgot more about this than i know. let's get after the show starts right now. i love it, june wednesday afternoon. i'm dylan ratigan. nice to see you. you have a preview, big dimon in the rough. >> i'm appearing to discuss recent loss necessary a portfolio held by jpmorgan. it created larger risks. we let a lot of people down. can't say we won't miss taste. we know we will make mistakes. we believe that this was isolated event. >> jpmorgan's ceo promising taking on excessive risk in the name of profits was an isolated event. you heard the sound. here's a sampling of our -- those that represent us. we pay them with our tax money. their response to mr. dimon. >> do you regret calling the efforts to require banks to hold more money, quote, un-american? >> bankers will always be ahead. you are giving them the information they are using to regulate. >> this transaction that you said morphed, what did it morph into, russian roulette? >> jpmorgan would have gone down and you have been out after job. >> it appears regulators simply can't understand why what's happening in all of these offices at once. it demonstrates to me too big to fail banks are, frankly, too big to man age and too big to regulate. >> great fire and brimstone in front of the cameras. i was having this conversation as were we four years ago. when it is time to accept all those campaign donations, especially if you are on the old senate banking committee, you would be shocked just how much of the dough for both democrats and republicans pretty much the same you can see the numbers there, 256, 252, comes from jamie dimon and the bankers. you see, remember we talked about -- talk a big game. you are -- mean, you are -- then you just take the money and hope nobody notices. there is the money and talk. let's see if these people take any action. joining us now to help us break down what those actions might be, dennis kellerer, ceo of better markets. mike mayo, one of the longest standing and most significant voices in financial research. certainly for 2 -- the span of my career and beyond. he's also the author of "exile on wall street." welcome. nice to see you guys. >> hi. how are you doing? >> great. how are you? >> great. >> let's talk about jamie dimon. what he represents, mike, on wall street in the sense of the culture of wall street which really -- provides great admiration, power, authority, and aspiration for really smart, really rich, really charismatic, really powerful individuals that many people on wall street would like to be more like that. >> well, jpmorgan -- >> jaime is that. >> jpmorgan is best of the breed. talking fannal supermarket, global wholesale bank. and jamie dimon is best the breed of the ceos, one of them, on top of these. so -- but what the recent train loss exposed is a crack in the model. the breed as a whole, as as category, it is a lot less than a -- lot of people thought even after the financial crisis if you have one crack in the model, there's certainly a chance that other cracks in the model at less well-run companies. >> basically you have one of, if not the number one financial services, ceo in the world. in jamie dimon. >> definitely one of the top. >> you have one of -- or the pre-eminent financial services firm in the world. >> among -- >> or top three. >> top three of both categories we could debate all night. >> among the big financial con glot rat. >> one of the top three ceos and top three firms, dennis, capable of seeing a -- twice the expected loss out of nowhere on a system that people still can't really see or understand, what is the lesson not for jamie dimon, not for the congress, not for the regulation, but for all of us to understand about what is being shown to us, what is the flaw of that crack is revealing that if one of the best guys, one of the best banks is getting -- kickback from it, that sounds like you got yourself a problem. >> well, i mean, the truth is the wall street too big to fail bank model is to make as much money as humanly possible, quick as possible, and then in any particular way possible. and that's their goal. frankly, jamie dimon didn't even back away from that today. he likes to pretend and call it banking. it is trading and finance. and what this illustrated and reminded everybody is those big banks have surprises because they cannot manage a bank that's 270,000 global employees and trillions in assets and these things are going to keep happening without financial regulation. >> so let's talk about financial regulation, mike. we have -- had the complexity of the greenspan era that brought us forward. now we are dealing with the uber complexity of dodd/frank. it is madness. and in the -- lost in all of it is the most simple foundational component of america, capitalism of our identity which is use your own money. and -- scratch through the capital requirements and retained risk. why can -- why are we having such a hard time with the simple regulation to annihilate the complexity that's being used to -- that's sort of rabbit hole we get lost in? >> we forget how large the largest banks are. we say trillions. 2.3 trillion. >> i don't know what that means. >> no one knows what it means. these are really big numbers. 20 times larger than the banks were a couple of decades ago. >> this is not his money. this is -- custodial of the global asset pool that's one of the biggest. >> that doesn't even talk about custodial. that's their own balance sheet. >> house money. >> that's their own balance sheet. total asset. her getting very complex. i do think the ultimate hope, the goal here, we go back to 1950s-type banking when you didn't worry if the bank would be there from one day to the next, i think we get there with the higher capital, and others less leverage at the banks, and more stable earnings streams. and they are just -- return the money to investors once they get back on their feet. and then the investors win because the stocks go up under that scenario. have you confidence in those dividends being returned. the taxpayer wins because you have additional cushion against unforeseen loss >> isn't the barrier between those benefits you described and the -- the -- incumberence, between here and we get to the lovely place you described, what is the -- how do you get there without creating a huge contraction in lending? >> you do have unintended consequences as a result of regulation, banks are incentive to have more securities than in loans. that's on top of some reduced demand for the loans. so this situation is going to happen again. having deposit in is exes of loans and excess money invested poorly, that's what happened to jpmorgan. that situation is as old as banking, becoming more prominent because banks have more money to invest. >> bigger. dennis, if you were to look at this from an apollo xiii standpoint, not fantasyland, not what we wished we had, not what we think it should be, what exists today? $700 trillion in swaps, big banks intact? we know what exists. central brangs supporting it. if you could go to d.c. with one piece of legislative proposal right now on the heat of the jamie dimon conflict much interest of federal reserve, all the -- what was the one -- what would be the one bill you would put in front of our congress this summer that could move us closer to the direction mike mayo is talking about right now? >> i think -- put your finger on the first step of a multistep bill which is capital is important. we know from -- through history, the capital can easily be manipulateded. risk weighted capital. it is really not going to solve the problems. we know from history that this industry was regulated massively after the great depression. during the great depression. it created layers of protection from the industry which is why it took them about 20 years to break down all of those protections. we need to put those layers back up. the other thing that's interesting, dylan, when they were massively regulated, more regulated than any time in history, not only did the financial industry thrive but broad based prosperity in the united states was spread throughout the land. we grew the largest middle class in the history of the country. we did that with highly regulated banks. we can do it again if we don't let the banks kill regulation. >> nodding here. >> i would like to supplement that with more actions by investors. talked about this before on your show. let's hold those who should be held accountable more accountable. either punish those or all would be punished. perennial underperformers and talked about citigroup before. since i was on your show several months back, the shareholders spoke up and said you are getting paid too much. citigroup still hasn't responded to that criticism. this saturday is their 200-year anniversary to the day. how about as -- >> a gift? good as a gift to everybody else saying we are listing to the owners of our and so going to react. the insiders, investors, don't take action on that your own, then -- the outsiders, regulars, everybody else has every right to. >> go ahead. >> as you can see, you still need strong, clear laws with layers of protection. the fact of the matter is that the profit maximumization model of the too big to fail banks on wall street, they get subsidies and compete unfairly against everybody else, including all of the banks in this country. >> i was going to say the mall banks getting on the chin worse than anybody. >> that's right. i said before we 4erd a lot about the 99%, the other 9%% versus 1%, why aren't the 99% of the banks in this country who are really taking it on the chin from the subsidies to the too big to fail banks on wall street rising up and supporting financial reform to restrain these guys, level the playing field, get rid of the subsidies and when they fail throw them into bankruptcy and out of work. not into the comforting arms of the u.s. taxpayer. >> not a complicated problem. it helps if you are funding the senate banking committee ahead of time. gentlemen, a pleasure. thank you. from banks and the economy to the financial sector at large, it is our theme today. fresh off of dimon's testimony, we will ask another wall street ceo, john taft, how he thinks jamie dimon did and talk about the kind of leadership truly needed in the financial sector to restore a culture of opportunity seeking and obliterate the culture of extraction and risk accumulation. plus tomorrow the president is set to make a big economic speech. will he include any big ideas? 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you are like mitt romney -- obama, barack obama is a-- has allen eighted wall street. for me wall street guy is any guy who doesn't make them use their own money. it seems to me that both presidents -- we haven't had a president that wanted them to use their own money since clinton. right? clinton 'twas last one that was -- you have the use your own money. everybody came and n and said we have computers. we don't need money. we can put tonight currencies. there hasn't been anyone since then -- remember when you had to have your own money, partnerships and like -- it meant something to become a partner to one of the firms. now no, nothing. >> let's step back. the money -- the business community, chamber of commerce, wall street, is, you know, big part of that. clearly putting all of its -- gone romney. >> betting red. >> the -- what i think -- i'm going to look the half full -- >> half full pundit. >> if he is going to do what he says he will do, reform the tax code, get -- fix the fiscal problem in the united states, he is going to have to do away with subsidies, loopholes, and bailouts, special distortions in the tax code. all those things. that's what -- in theory he will need to do if he will meet the promises he is giving. i'm going to love to see what happens in the chamber of commerce. people who bet on romney red to find out they lost all their special tax incentives, gone. this will be exciting to watch. >> take us inside the -- take us -- channel the mind of a donor. all right. i know -- i gave obama money and now i have dodd/frank and complexity, making me crazy. you think it is stupid. i don't want any part of it. i'm not giving that guy any more money. i'm going to bet on the other guy, romney. he's not going to do all these silly things i didn't like. >> right. >> except for his first 100 days say he will do a bunch of silly things i'm not going to like. but i'm still giving him money. >> here's the thing. when they were giving barack obama money in 2008, it was pre-citizens united. there was a max they could give and then that was it. >> caps. >> now you can give the max to romney but then right -- write a -- >> get that to the super pac. >> we -- i we know the money. >> motivation is to get whoever the -- get romney, get your guy in and hope that he -- hope for the best. hope he will do what you want him to do. that's why i bring in citizens united because now you literally can write a giant check to ensure romney listens to you. before you write a check and hope that the guy will listen to you. >> more reason to hope. >> if you were president romney i could go to you and wrote you a $50 million check. hey, i wrote you a check. >> keep the tax break. >> wall street obviously prefers the safe bet. certainty. that's why the donors moved over to romney. the end of the day romney will have a backlash if he doesn't do what he said in first 100 days. this is the worst election money could buy. i read that today. >> it is a good one. that's my kind of statistic. size and scope from the good old day. >> backlash. >> yeah. >> backlash from america. >> yes. let us hope that -- well, it is not that bad. breaking news for you here concerning john edwards. nbc news senior investigative correspondent lisa myers with that. hi, lisa. >> with this order, a federal judge today ended john edwards' legal troubles. it dismisses the five remaining counts against john edwards on which a jury was unable to reach a verdict. prosecutors had asked the judge to dismiss these charges. the jury did find edwards not guilty on the only count on which it was able to reach a verdict. the justice department has put out a statement today saying that while it is -- it is his duty to bring challenging cases and believe the prosecutora fine job in this case, that these dis -- dismissing these charges at this point is in the interest of justice. so that mean john edwards will not be retried on these five counts. and that his legal problems are over. this is not exactly a shock. when the jury was polled, the government had failed to get more than four guilty votes on any of the counts so it had been anticipated that the prosecutor was not retry the case. but this -- with this judge, with this order, judge eagle made it official today. >> all right. thank you so much. next up here, as americans struggle on main street, we ask has the culture that established the roots of the financial crisis on wall street changed at all? are you an opportunity seeker who bears your own risk or somebody that likes to gamble with other people's money? we will put that question to wall street's ceo john taft in just a moment. follow the wings. people have doubts about taking aspirin for pain. but they haven't experienced extra strength bayer advanced aspirin. in fact, in a recent survey, 92% of people who tried it said they would buy it again. visit fastreliefchallenge.com today for a special trial offer. did you personally approve of the chief investment officer's trading strategy? >> no. i was aware of it but i did not approve. >> it did you personally monitor the chief investment officer? office? >> generally, yes. >> that, of course, jamie dimon today. his leadership, the culture of his leadership under a microscope today. i would say he is among probably the most highly regarded in recent wall street history for his leadership. there openly admitting oversights and maybe even hubris cost his firm, jpmorgan chase, between $2 billion to $4 billion. could it ultimately cost as much as $7 billion. of course, no wonder our specialist says investor confidence is shot when one of the best ceos and best and biggest banks is able to take a banana pie to the face like this. so how do you get a legitimate history in the culture such that you have a little less wild reckless or wild risk taking and a little bit more aggressive opportunity seeking which really was what wall street was intended to do? joining us now is john taft himself, ceo. part of the royal bank of canada. also author of "stewardship." what's the lost culture? >> it is a c