happy easter to those of you celebrating. we have a lot of politics to get to. but first, the growing tension between the united states and north korea. north korea last night launched a ballistic missile from the submarine base in sinpo, but the missile exploded minutes after launch. this happened as mike pence landed in south korea for talks on how to counter the growing nuclear ambitions and he spoke to american troops at a breakfast there this morning. i m joined by senior national security analyst juan duarte, the failure, the new york times this morning leans hard into the idea that the failure wasn t necessarily a north korean failure, but maybe sabotage and possibly sabotage from the united states. what can you say? this is a missile program that s been replete with failures. and the challenge is we don t know yet. it could be sabotage. it could be poor engineering or bad luck. it s the nature of the missile programs but it s clear that many trump voters though are forgiving. at least for now. i think he does see things differently. as all of us would if we had the responsibility. we just see the tip of the iceberg. but facing a unified democratic opposition with an uncomplicated message, not trump. republicans on defense ahead of 2018 are struggling to define what it even means to be a trump republican when mr. trump s views keep changing. i m my only man. i m not going to be told tdo by one president or another how to represent the state of arizona. and joining me now is the chairman of the senate armed services committee, john mccain of arizona. senator mccain, welcome back to meet the press. thanks, chuck. thanks for having me back. i want to start with north korea. why would i call china a currency manipulator when they re working with us on the north korean problem? we will see what happens. why does china s currency policy have anything to do with north korea? should it have anything to do with the north korea? it may be part of the overall relationship, but china is the key. china is the key. they can stop this if they want to because of their control over the north korean economy. and by the way i would point out i know this will come out later on, but there are artillery on the border between north and south korea that can reach seoul. we can t take them all out this is this may be the first test of this presidency. but china can shut them down. whether they re currency manipulators or not, we should expect them to act to prevent what could be a cataclysmic event and the north koreans keep making progress. they had a failure yesterday. i m not sure do you buy the sabotage thing? i don t think so, but i wouldn t rule it out. but at the same time, they have made steady progress. while we have made agreement after agreement after agreement. chuck, how many times on this show have we said, we have now a comprehensive agreement with noh korea and so i m not blaming trump for this. i m blaming republican and democrat presidents over the last 20 years while they have continued to make progress. is the carrot and stick approach with china worth doing? is using our trade practices or these conversations about currency worth having these debates in order to influence them on north korea? to prevent north korea from having a missile with a nuclear weapon that could strike the united states and we would have to rely on our ability to intercept and by the way i m told that we have that ability is still risky business. this is this is really very serious. this guy in north korea is not rationale. his father and grandfather were much more rational than he is. when you re dealing within a irrational actor, with north korea the military option is on the table but when you re dealing with an irrational actor, does that make the military option something you don t want to deal with because you don t know how he s going to respond? i think with the proximity of the north korean artillery to seoul, a city of how many millions of people? but at the same time, to risk a situation where they have that ability and we rely on our ability to intercept, this could be the first test, real test, of the trump presidency. by the way, i believe that he ll get very good advice from mattis and from mcmaster. let me move on and a bigger picture and what we ve learned about president trump and his foreign policy. in your hometown paper it was writing about the syria decision. it was a completely ad hoc decisions and my guess is that s the way that foreign policy is going to be conducted under trump. a series of ad hoc decisions based on what seems right or doable at the time. at the end of the day to borrow from winston churchill, there he said look, he obviously isn t probably going to be part of the solution. but he stopped short of that. why? because i don t think he s absolutely sure what he needs to do. but i would point out of the 400,000 men, women and children who were slaughtered, they weren t slaughtered by isis. they were slaughtered by bashar al assad. the war crimes are horrendous here. and to just say we re only after isis in my view rather than regime change is something that we have to rethink. i want to talk about the overall changes. you said he s growing. yes. in office. there are some who will say, no, the washington establishment sucked him in. i hope so. okay. no, on national security, i do believe he s assembled a strong team and i think very appropriately he s listening to them. and that s the area of course where i am but i want to go quickly on the washington consensus, not everybody thinks the washington consensus on foreign policy has worked in the middle east over the last 25 years. it hasn t. you ve right, it hasn t. but it wast causof the people around him no in ft, if evious president for eight years we basically did nothing in response to some of the most horrendous war crimes in history. at least he did something. now i hope that there will be a strategy to follow that up. and look, america is about a moral superiority and our willingness not to fight every fight, but at least respond to horrendous acts of inhumanity and war crimes. also, by the way, syria will continue to have the spread of al qaeda if we don t get take care of bashar al assad. senator john mccain, unfortunately i have to leave it there. thanks for having me. you have been here on a few times. time flies when you re having fun. there you go. earlier this week, the u.s. military dropped the so-called mother of all bombs against isis fighters in afghanistan. president trump who has turned over more decision making to the pentagon was asked if he personally authorized that action. here s what he said. did you authorize it, sir? everybody knows what exactly what happened and what i do is i authorize my military. we have the greatest military in the world and they have done their job as usual. so so we have given them total authorization. that s what they re doing. well, joining me is senator jack reed, democrat from rhode island and the ranking member of the senate armed services committee. he and senator mccain do a lot of work together. welcome back to the show. thanks. let me start with north korea and get to the issue of the unpredictability aspect of president trump. is there on this specific issue when it comes to north korea, is there an argument that that s an asset and not a liability? i don t think long term it s an asset. i think you have to have a deliberate plan. i think you have a strategy. i think as senator mccain indicated, china is key to that strategy. they have the economic leverage. they re the biggest trader with north korea. in fact, their trade is going up last year and they have indirectly provided some of the electronics so if china can be brought to the point that they re putting pressure constantly on north korea, there s an opportunity i think to try to freeze their system and then roll them back. but that has to be a long term deliberate day by day strategy. one of the things about the president he s getting good military advice from general mattis and general mcmaster, but he needs a much stronger state department. i want to ask about this and you talked about his relationship with general mattis. somebody you supported. his confirmation. yes. and in the opening bite there in your introduction i noted about how the president didn t sign off himself personally on the dropping of the so-called mother of all bombs. he has given more leeway to his military leaders to make these decisions. are you comfortable with that? well, these authorities have been are given over the last several years. they have increased. in fact, when general nicholson was before the committee he said he was satisfied with the authority he had and i assumed this is not a new authority. it was something he was authorized. deploying a particular weapons system. right. but there was a comment that said, look, in the previous administration, we wouldn t have dropped this without at least alerting the white house. in this one we don t have to alert the white house. that that is the essentially that s essentially changed. are you comfortable with that change? i think there has to be communication obviously between the white house and their field commanders on the constant basis. that s generally routed through the security council. i think in this case, general nicholson decided the weapon was appropriate for the tunnel complex. in fact, there are no reports of civilian casualties so the operation i think he deemed as something that was appropriate, well within his authority. he might have informed someone, but i don t think he went out of the way to do it. obviously anything we do in afghanistan is covered by the war author assist passed a long time ago. there s still some question about whether anything we do in syria falls under that. do you think it does or doesn t? i think with the pursuit of isis in syria, that is covered by the map. it s an extension, but the route is we re extending that from many, many years now. but going after isis i think within the providence of the map other actions going after assad would not fall under that map? i don t think so. i think going after assad in the deliberate concentrated effort to conduct the military operations would require the authorization of congress. i think the tack that the president took was i agree with the tack, was done under his prerogative as responding to an incident, horrible incident. the right or the ability of the nations to protect the vulnerable populions. i think anything further should be considered by the congress. would you support sending more troops to syria? i think the president would have to lay out a plan, a clear plan. the ad hoc nature of what he does, the kind of the flip-flops which seemed dramatic this week suggest incoherence in foreign policy. i think he s trying to come to grips with these things. he doesn t seem to be someone that follows through with the deliberate planning process you need. he has to come to congress and to the american people and explain what he s doing. are you comforted by the flip-flops? all of them were moves from outside the washington consensus to within the washington consensus, nato, how to deal with china. does that comfort you? i think it s recognizing in many cases the obvious what he has to do. i think with respect to china, you know, their key role in north korea potentially can t be sort of jeopardized by going after them as currency manipulators. in fact, there s some evidence that they re not doing that recently. one time they were. right. but i think these things are be more comforting if they were not sort of off the cuff, unexplained or glibly announced, but rather the conscious deliberation and by the president. i think also too one of the things we have got to recognize is the growing sort of disenchantment with russia. but that disenchantment also has to be reflected in serious concentration on the election in 2016 and what they did here. because they re still operating today in europe, using those same information techniques, et cetera. we have elections coming up. we can not allow the russians to be part of our electoral process. so that s a something he has to focus on. right now he has to accept it happened. exactly. that s one of those things that that would be a great improvement in his situation. accept it happened. and then move very aggressively for the good of the country to see what happened in 16 so that we re prepared and protected for 18 and beyond. senator jack reed, from rhode island, good to have you here. thank you for coming on to share your views. when we come back, the trump administration get tough policy on illegal immigration. if you re here illegally you should be deported. but john kelly says that it is a complicated problem with no easy solutions and congress needs to step in. what, you think we own stock in the electric company? 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[ chuckles ] all right. movantik may interact with them causing side effects. why hold it in? have your movantik moment. talk to your doctor about opioid-induced constipation. if you can t afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. guests can earn a how cafree night when theypring book direct on choicehotels.com and stay with us just two times? spring time. badda book. badda boom. or. badda bloom. seriously? or. badda bloom. book now at choicehotels.com or another. i would argue, chuck, that we have to straighten this t. and i thin i place that squarely on the united states congress. it s a hugely complex series of laws and i get an awful i engage the hill quite a bit. and i get a lot of i get an earful about what i should do and what i shouldn t do. but it all comes down to the law, doesn t it? we are a nation of laws. i would hope that the congress fixes a lot of these problems. okay. you say it s on congress, but there are others who say if you enforce the law on the books. so what is the issue? are the laws on the books hard to enforce and they need to be changed? is that what you re saying here? well, the laws on the books are pretty straightforward. if you here illegally you should leave or should be deported. put through the system. but there are 11 million people and it s very complicated. there are people who came here as children. there are people who came here illegally many years ago and they have married local men and women who have children. and it s a complicated problem, but the law is the law. given but i don t have unlimited capacity to execute is it the best use of money? is this the resources you need, you need to hire more people to deal with this issue? is that your number one problem? i think so. the people you know, it s two aspects. i.c.e. operates more or less on the interior and, you know, through targeted actions against illegal aliens plus. what i mean by that is just because you re in the united states illegally doesn t necessarily get you targeted. it s got to be something else. we re operating on the other end of the spectrum, multiple convictions define a criminal here. that s so it seems as if on the obama administration, there was one definition. there seems to be another definition in this administration. is that fair to say? it is fair to say that the definition of criminal is not has not changed, but where on the spectrum of criminality we opate has changed. so can you give me an example of somebody that wasn t deported before that you re deporting now? well, as an example, multiple duis. even a single dui depending on other aspects would get you into the system. but remember for this wouldn t have been the case under the previous administration? you have to remember that there s a system a legal justice system in place and the law deports people. secretary kelly doesn t. i.c.e. doesn t. it s the united states, you know, criminal justice system or justice system that deports people. i want to go back to the 11 million. it seems that the bigger problem you re dealing with is not the border, it s visa overstays. it s a big problem. big problem. is that what you need you need i.c.e. agents to do that? is that what you need the extra resources for? all of that. it s a big problem. it s a lot of people out there that need to be taken into custody and deported according to the law. visa overstays, quite a large number of the illegals that are in the country that are in fact visa overstays. and we do we just completed i think a targeted they just completed, i.c.e. just completed a targeted operation going after overstays. it s time-consuming. but at the end of the day, they came here with the promise to leave and we have to track them down. if they re still in the country and put them in the proceedings to deport them. i guess i m going at this with the money for the border wall would be better spent of going after the visa overstays and would that deal with the problem that president trump campaigned on? you have to secure the border somehow, first and foremost. but the very, very good news, for a lot of the different reasons, the number of illegal aliens moving up from the south has dropped off precipitously. i mean, we re down 65, 70% in the last two months. these are the months that we should see a steep incline in illegal movement. it s down by almost 70%. do you think that s been the president s rhetoric on the campaign and saying, well, he won, it s tougher to get across the border? certainly. is that contributing certainly. some of the other things we have done on the border. just my going down to the border on several occasions, you know that jeff sessions was just down there, the attention being paid to the border certainly has injected into these people and a vast majority of them are good people from central america, but it s injected enough confusion in their minds, i think, and just waiting to see what actually does happen. you as head of south com, the southern military command, your previous job before this, you were testifying on these issues during the time we had the surge of central american immigration through mexico. and i remember at the time you said, hey, i stop at the essentially the guatemala border there. your purview. but you talked about the difficulty you re trying to find partners at the time in central america to help you with this and the u.s. drug consumption the u.s. drug consumers you thought as part of the problem in this. explain. drug consumption in the united states is the problem. just cocaine alone, when you consider the massive amounts of profit that come out of the united states, the trafficker s biggest problem is not getting drugs till now into the united states. the biggest problem they have is laundering the money. so when you have that much profit coming out of the united states and that profit is managed by cartels that are beyond violent and so you go to you go to the latin american countries, mexico, the united states for that matter, you mentioned corruption already, the kind of money they can offer an attorney general in guatemala or a police chief in mexico city, the kind of money they can offer, if you don t take the money, they re happy to send your you know, your youngest child s head to your home in a plastic bag. you said though the hypocrisy aspect of it it is. meaning the central american countries, is the idea of for instance marijuana legalization, does that help your problem? or hurt your problem? marijuana is not a factor in the drug world. this really is a cocaine and in some cases the opioid sort of copycats? it s three things. methamphetamine, almost all produced in mexico. heroin, virtually all produced in mexico and cocaine that comes up from further south. those three drugs result in the death of i think last year 52 i think 52,000 people to include opioids. it s a massive problem. 52,000 americans you can t put a price on the human misery, the costs to the united states is over $250 billion a year. the solution is not arresting a lot of users. the solution is a comprehensive drug demand reduction program in the united states that involves every man and woman of goodwill. and he went on to say that congress needs to be working on this. i also asked secretary kelly about the fight against isis and that mother of all bombs in afghanistan. you can hear his answer on the entire interview which is posted on the website. meet the press.com. from syria to the fate of obamacare, what are we to make of president trump s evolving positions? has he been sucked into the establishment as john mccain gleefully said he hoped so. and three religious leaders talk about whether we should separate religion and whether we should. company says they ll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you d get your whole car back. i guess they don t want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, we ll replace the full value of your car. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. guests can earn a how cafree night when theypring book direct on choicehotels.com and stay with us just two times? spring time. badda book. badda boom. or. badda bloom. seriously? book now at choicehotels.com welcome back. panelists here, former republican senator john sununu. heather mcgee and andrea mitchell and mark leibovich from the new york times. who does still live in this town. welcome all. thank you. i want to talk about the start with sort of the week of donald trump and his evolving positions. john sununu, what do you make of it? growing into the job maybe. on issues like nato, i think everyone knew that we weren t going to pull out of nato. everyone knew and understood that his rhetoric was in one place in the campaign and then it was going to be met with a reality. that nato serves a function, has great value, is important to our strategic alliances around the world. a lot is just the campaigner coming to the oval office and recognizing what s real, what s doable. look, some of it on the domestic policy issues like bank or currency manipulation is going to kick back on the trump base because they don t expect that kind of thing to happen. here s andy sullivan, what on earth is the point of trying to understand him when there s nothing to understand? he has no guiding policy, no consistency at all. just whatever makes him feel good about himself this second. he therefore believes what bizarre nonfact he can cook up in the addled head or what the last person said. harsher response, andrea. i disagree. i think he likes to win and he s seen over the course of the last weeks that he wins when he listens to jared kushner, when he lists importantly we break into regular programming to take you to korea, on the peninsula on the demilitarized zone, you see here live pictures of the vice president mike pence just arriving, landing in a helicopter. he s been there for the better part of a day, arriving into south korea for meetings as well as he did attend some easter sunday services and activity sets. vice president mike pence, of course, there, a day after a missile test that failed in north korea, about in the northeastern section of north korea. and he s now in the demilitarized zone, a space that is just a sliver separating the north and the south. north korea and south korea, now in the midst of an armistice, still technically at war. now, the dmz, the demilitarized zone, he s close to it or in the zone itself right now, in the zone, when you do arrive, there is a building where there were meetings that were held between the north and the south, it is basically a time capsule, going back decades of when there was a different time, the north, the communists, the south, and the western united states, where they would meet and negotiate and discuss issues relevant at the time to the post armed conflict that had been happening during the korean war. we re now many decad later, bu vice president pence now visiting the dmz, the demi demilitarized zone, a space you actually, if you look over, it is completely green. there are no buildings. it is a space that the two sides, north korea and south korea stare each other down hour after hour and as was expected, he s not in the dmz technically. there is an approach zone. you arrive at gates. and we re taking the pictures live. you can see the camera is resetting as vice president mike pence is getting into his vehicle and if this camera does actually refocus and redirect towards where the vice president is, he will be making his way towards the zone itself. this, again, a day after the missiles, one missile was tested, it was believed to be a medium range missile. could have been a solid fuel missile and that was one of the thoughts. this is from moments ago as he was arriving off a helicopter and moving into his suv and then moving actually in physically to the dmz, but the dmz has a buffer zone in the south, in south korea. the important point to make here is that seoul, south korea, is just 30 miles from here. which means so is north korea. this is why the two sides, the north and the south, as you look at some of the allied forces here, the south korean armed forces as well, meeting the vice president, they work together with the united states, and u.s. forces some 28,000 close to 30,000 based in south korea, they often annually conduct practices together and this is right before mike pence does get into a vehicle and head into the demilitarized zone prop proper. he s spending almost a day there as we speak, watching pictures from moments ago. we ll continue to keep an eye on this as the vice president makes his way to the dmz. if we have more information in terms or pictures themselves, of his activity set there, we will get that to you here on msnbc. we ll take a short break and return to regular programming. (burke) at farmers, we ve seen almost everything, we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum there s nothing more than my vacation.me so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. they offer free cancellation, in case i decide to go from kid-friendly to kid-free. now i can start relaxing even before the vacation begins. your vacation is very important. that s why booking.com makes finding the right hotel for the right price easy. visit booking.com now to find out why we re booking.yeah so i got to speak right after senator widen at the one here in d.c. yesterday. honestly my expectations were very low. there are the sort of eaest tax da you know, kind of rallies by progressives saying we need more revenue. this was 25,000 people in d.c. alone. 200 rallies across the country. and the message was really quite uniform. it was show us your taxes. what are you hiding? who are you working for and then at the same time, we need economic justice and tax fairness. we re sick of hearing about how billionaires how little they pay in taxes. you can look at the rallies in two different ways. maybe the general public isn t as moved on the tax return issue but the fact that the rallies can happen fairly easily now on the left tells you the energy is son the left. i think there is a little bit of energy on the left, because trump provides a great focal point for them and it is sort of the way that obama did for the conservatives. sure. the coin flips, you know, the big tax rallies used to be conservatives marking, you know, tax day. and how long do you have to work until you can actually pay your taxes and it gets later and later in the year. do you realize the majority of americans are okay with the amount of taxes they pay and last year they did not. three out of four americans wants him to release the tax returns. he kept saying it didn t matter because he lost the popular vote by 3 million votes, but people think it s unable that he thinks he s above the law. substantively, it doesn t matter. it doesn t matter for the policy decisions we have been talking about. it won t matter in his re-election because it didn t matter in his re-election in 2015. breaking into normal programming again here on msnbc at new york city. we are looking at pictures coming in from the demilitarized zone, mike pence, the vice president speaking. particularly humbling for me to be here. my father served in the korean war with the u.s. army. and on the way here, we ally sa some of the terrain my father fought alongside korean forces to help earn your freedom. so we we re grateful to all those who each and every day stand in the gap for freedom, here at the dmz and it is a great honor to be with all of our forces and with the leadership represented here. thank you. thanks. the basic area we re in is called panmunjong, the place where video directly as it is happening. the vice president with short comments saying that his father served in the korean war and that it his father s efforts had contributed to the freedom that many south koreans multigenerations have been able to enjoy since on armistice day each and every year, this is something where south koreans, where americans and those who serve and descendants of those who served in south korea for the u.s. armed forces do remember that key day, a remembrance of the sacrifice that was made by u.s. veterans to guarantee the freedom for south korea, and vice president mike pence remembering that, the dmz, a representation of that point in the war when they stopped fighting yet technically as was mentioned and has been mentioned before, they are still at war. vice president again beginning his ten day trip there in asia, finishing up his stops there in south korea. this on the heels of a missile failed missile test from north korea, a lot happening there on the korean peninsula, we ll continue to follow the vice president s trips and activities here on msnbc. for now, we continue to normal programming, but first [ music stops suddenly ] ah. when your pain reliever sts working, your whole day stops awww. try this. for minor arthritis pain, only aleve can stop pain for up to 12 straight hours with just one pill. thank you. come on everybody. you can t quit, neither should your pain reliever. stay all day strong with 12 hour aleve. hi, i m frank. i take movantik for oic, opioid-induced constipation. had a bad back injury, my doctor prescribed opioids which helped with the chronic pain, but backed me up big-time. tried prunes, laxatives, still constipated. had to talk to my doctor. she said, how long you been holding this in? (laughs) that was my movantik moment. my doctor told me that movantik is specifically designed for oic and can help you go more often. don t take movantik if you have a bowel blockage or a history of them. movantik may cause serious side effects, including symptoms of opioid withdrawal, severe stomach pain and/or diarrhea, and tears in the stomach or intestine. tell your doctor about any side effects and about medicines you take. movantik may interact with them causing side effects. why hold it in? have your movantik moment. talk to your doctor about opioid-induced constipation. if you can t afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. pg&e learned a tragic lesson we can never forget. this gas pipeline ruptured in san bruno. the explosion and fire killed eight people. pg&e was convicted of six felony charges including five violations of the u.s. pipeline safety act and obstructing an ntsb investigation. pg&e was fined, placed under an outside monitor, given five years of probation, and required to perform 10,000 hours of community service. we are deeply sorry. we failed our customers in san bruno. while an apology alone will never be enough, actions can make pg&e safer. and that s why we ve replaced hundreds of miles of gas pipeline, adopted new leak detection technology that is one-thousand times more sensitive, and built a state-of-the-art gas operations center. we can never forget what happened in san bruno. that s why we re working every day to make pg&e the safest energy company in the nation. meet the press end game is brought to you by boeing. always working to build something better. welcome back. we re going to end the broadcast this easter sunday by discussing how religious leaders deal or don t deal with politics at a time when the country is so polarized and congregations are polarized. this week we brought together three faith leaders, t.j. jakes, pastor joanne hummel, and rabbi david sappersteen. i began by asking them whether we should still abide by the old maxim to not mix religion and politics. it is a misnomer because it suggests that religion and politics are individuals when rd politics. well, it is impossible, because the ideologies are inherent in people, and so when you have people, you will be mixing the religiosity and the cultures and the fact is that they will inadvertently connect whether you want them to not. should we fight it? religion is an internal kind of thing that gets to the heart and the mind and politics is the outworking of the values and the things that are inside you, and soy see them very connected actually. sometimes i wonder if we overthought the phrase, rabbi. you can separate them into partisan politics and reopitic, and they are interwoven with religion and in other words, when we talk about the poor and the vulnerable, and the biblical command to welcome in the stranger of the midst and protect them as ourselves and to protect god s creation, a and we are talking about the global warming, and the migrant policy, and so just as they with woven together and the prophets and the jesus of nazareth and everybody addressed the issue s in their time, we are so compelled to address it in ours. and pastor, you have not been afraid of politic, and rabbi obviously, but talk about some of the fellow pastors and bishops and rabbis? well, it is a thin line that you have to walk, because primarily people don t come to church to have you espouse religious believes. and they tell you the stick to faith. and stay away from the politics. yes, and in the black congressgressions, they have a different expectation of the people who are voiceless lesof voiceless, and i thood grow into the fact that my responsibility was to represent the parishioner s issues and concerns without getting nuanced into the individual behind politics, but you do it at least have to confront the issues that are affecting your congregation. and pastor, where are you on this? yeah, i m thinking about the people in the church who want to know how the think bib lilicall and so when they come to church, they are wrestling, because biblical illiteracy is increasing and so they are telling us not what to think, but but how the think. and as some synagogues are sanctuaries. yes. that is a big political statement for a synagogue to make, and some congregants view it as, oh, you are taking sides. that is the paradox, because when we are feeding hungry people in our food programs and we are sheltering the homeless people in our homeless shelter or the programs, and we are welcoming the refugee, the stranger, the bible tells us that we should treat of ourselves in providing the shelter to them and sanctuary of them, we are living out the religious ideals and we have a pastoral responsibility to our parishioners, and so we have to not compromise our ability to do that, but with reteachers and leaders and the one who exemplifies how to apply our traditional values to the world about it is a difficult tight rope to walk but we have to encompass both of the responsibilities. you believe that you would be punished more if you ignored the politics? well, it is consequences, and you can t walk out of the faith and ignore the environment in which your faith is exemplified and it is not an issue of the the you are going to be taking it on, but you have to look at how, and you have to understand that you are not going to be misunderstood or become silent and not heard at all. and maybe the evangelicals are going to set aside the moral outrage of bill clinton from donald trump? wow, that is hard one. i think that the moral underpinnings of the country and of our faith are challenged when these things, when a candidate trump talks about those things about women, and that is personally offensive to me, but i am not called upon to go to the pulpit and express my vies s of myself and i have to look at it from a a wider context of the scripture and what does the bible talk about how women are to be treated and how we should honor one another, and that is the message and not delve into the political specifics and bring it back to the human and deeper human issue, and how are we dealing with that and what are the ways in which we do the same thing. do any of you see the rise of secularism as a rejection of the faith leaders or faiths and what is the rise to secularism to? well, you know, a lot of times, i am not sure that the rise is as high as some media purports that it is, and i think that faith has in many cases retreated back behind private walls, and i m seeing a rejection of organized religion. the pew research suggests that millennials are retreating and not that they don t have faith, but they don t express it in the way that the parents have. and the the challenge of people of faith is not so much to wrestle against the secularism, but to remain relevant in a society that has lost faith in all institutions. and the onus is on us to recreate ourselves without losing sight of the core principles and values. pastor? yes, and i am thinking when you say that, bishop, is how we have made heaven here especially in the west. we don t need to relate to that theology of heaven and rescue and salvation the way we always did, because what do we have to be rescued from, and we have everything that you need here and if you go to africa and the developing countries in the global south and there is no secularism there, because there is no development there or no personal wealth there, and so they are looking to god for everything that they have and there is such a joy in that and it reveals the joy of the human heart. so you see the rise of the sek cularism as a benefit of th society. yes, and what it is going to do is to layer over the needs of real people s hearts. church, andly bow the you guys r on this, but when people come into the crisis, they still come to the church. we are there in the crisis moments people ves, and at the sick bed, the wedding altar or the divorce court and there in the spaces where where people are hurting and the money can t help it, and the secular things that we have enveloped ourselves in can t save you. well, that is a full conversation for you. that is bishop t.j. jakes and pastor joanne hummel and rabbi david. and so we hope that you have a happy passover and easter, and go wizards. if it is meet the press it is end game. you can see more end game on the msnbc facebook page. it s over. i ve found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced, our senses awake, our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say: if you love something. set it free. see you around, giulia toddlers see things a bit undifferently with pampers easy ups they ll see a stretchy waistband you ll see pampers superior protection and you ll both see an easy way to underwear pampers easy ups if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me, and you re talking to your rheumatologist about a medication. .this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain. .and protect my joints from furtheramage. humira has been clinically studied for over 18 years. humira works by targeting and helping to. .block a specific source. .of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. it s proven to help relieve pain and. .stop further joint damage in many adults. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you ve been to areas. .where certain fungal infections are common and if you ve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. don t start humira if you have an infection. talk to your doctor and visit humira.com this is humira at work. youany profession,ob, image matters. i want some gray.but not too much. only touch of gray uses oxygen to gently blend away some gray, but not all for that perfect salt and pepper look. satisfaction guaranteed. just you and the look you want. just for men touch of gray dad likare you going to weeks be using my car? 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