why rob portman is hopeful. mick mulvaney is warning. and steny hoyer is fighting mad. they re all here and only here. we begin with blake burman with the latest. blake? it s clear here in the halls of the capitol as house republicans mark up their bill and the senate will release their bill later this week. there s a host of issues to work through. earlier today, the club for growth, an influential republican group put out a note saying they have issues with four different things on the individual side of this house republican plan. here they are. top tax bracket for millionaires with the possibility that those that make in the low million dollar range can see the top end taxed north of 45%. they take issue with a portion of pass-through profits would be taxed 25%. growth. you had big deficits. it wasn t tax cuts that did it. cuts create growth and growth creates revenues neil: but you left out ronald reagan. i know. deficits didn t grow with him. the first two years were high because we phased in the tax cuts and had no growth whatsoever. once we started getting the growth, the revenues increased dramatically. neil: what you and i i m trying to egg you on. i can feel the poke. neil: one of the things i noticed, more revenue comes in, if you see that from tax cuts history bears that out, whether republicans or democrats, they will spend the revenue. there s little opportunity and moments for republicans to address this. even tepidly trying to get a hand on spending what did you make of that? i make it that republicans are just ashamed of being themselves and get over it a and kennedy being rich. there s nothing wrong with being rich. there s something wrong with being poor. we want to make the poor richer. neil: what would ronald reagan think of these provisos he in here, a real rate that balloons north of 45% he would gag. we cut the highest rate from 50% to 20% and cut the corporate rates. we raised the lowest rate. we went 14 brackets to two brackets. we got rid of the deductions. just the things that these guys are putting back in. we had it and passed 97 to 3. hello! most of the democrats today like schumer voted for it. harry reid voted for it. they all voted for it. now they re playing nothing but politics. it s sickening. neil: do you see the bipartisan support? no. what i tried to do is with a number of democrats that i ve talked to is talking about complaining going on. people say i m not getting a tax cut. many people say with mortgage interest capped come on. neil: i m telling you what they said. in expensive states like new york, california, illinois, massachusetts where you can t deduct your state and local taxes. will that be a provision as well? you ll like the senate bill. it s similar to the house bill neil: including no deduction for state and local taxes. no deductions for the state and local taxes. should the federal government subsidize neil: i understand that. but senators from though states, they re going to go ballistic. they need to look at the entirety of the package. it lowers tax rates and provides a tax relief, $1.5 trillion in tax relief to a lot of individuals in their states. in every group of taxpayers, there will be tax relief. it goes to the top. the stop will city pay their fair share. it won t be a tax cut in that sense. it won t be a tax increase for folks. looks, it s very clear that we have a broken tax code. everybody agrees with that. needs to be simpler, which this is and fairer, which this is. finally, the business side is totally broken. neil, you and i talked about this so many times. it s crazy that congress has allowed this to happen. there s a study out showing 4, 700 companies that should be american are now foreign just over the last 13 years because we didn t go to this kind of tax system. neil: do you have any proviso in the senate, senator, that would require companies that do get a tax holiday to bring this money back from overseas to hire workers, expand plants and equipment? what if they pour it into stocks? that s not necessarily what we re doing. we re not doing a holiday. what we re saying is there s a repatriation. they have to pay to move neil: i understand that. what if they don t take advantage of that on do what you think going forward then, it s not a holiday. it s permanent repatriation. so the other countries say your taxed where the income is earned. so you can bring it back without penalty. i don t think we should say to companies, we d like you to invest here rather than there. they have to neil: will yours be paid for? the rap and the house plan is it doesn t add up and worsens the deficits. both will have the same approach, which is to say out of a roughly 44 trillion in taxes we ll have the next ten years, yeah a $1.5 trillion tax cut but that s based on a very low projection of economic growth. 1.9%, which is what cbo says despite two quarters with 3% growth a 25-year average of 2.5% growth. if it s under 2.5, 2.4, you ll so a reduction in the definite situation because more revenue will come in. neil: you know the rap around the house is they have squeezed all of this $5 trillion tax cut to to a $1.5 trillion budget frame work and not making it happen. it s a good structure because it focuses on the pro growth elements we talked about and immediate expenses. i think we ll have more than adequate growth to take care of the relatively smart part, 1.5 out of 44 trillion. we re assuming certain things like the current extenders of taxes won t happen. they always happen. that talks about $500 billion alone out. i feel confident. you ll like the senate bill. i think you ll see as we go through this process, yeah, there will be some partisanship and so on. when you look at the facts, this is good for middle class families and good for small businesses and good to make our international businesses competitive. that s what we have to do. if we don t do that, we have neil: and you re confident it will be yes. neil: all right. virginia and new jersey. two states with gubernatorial elections. did any of you catch what was going on in new jersey with chris christie having a dust-up with a voter just after voting? 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neil: admit it. welcome back. i m neil cavuto. you re watching your world. that was chris christie after voting in new jersey today. encountering an angry voter. it happens sometimes. gone are the days that he would be pointing an ice cream cone at people. eight years are about up. his republican lieutenant governor is facing an uphill battle to continue republican leadership in trenton. looks problematic. the gubernatorial contest not only in the garden state but what is happening in virginia where republicans think they might have a better chance there. no way to tell. i know aaron mcpike has a good idea. she follows this closer. erin, how is it going here? what are the issues deciding this? how much is the president an issue in both of these states? by the way, two states he lost last year. what do you think? i don t think trump factors into the new jersey race at all. you can say that he maybe does. chris christie is going out right now as the least popular governor in the entire country. this is just as much about him in new jersey neil: by the way, polls bear that out. you re right about that. but face it, this drama with voters, you re going to miss it. i know someone that follows this. you re going to miss it. four years ago on election day, i was there in that very parking lot covering chris christie s re-election when he voted for himself. neil: in new jersey. we will all miss covering chris christie. he went in with a bang and going out with a bang. a democratic will likely win and it will be a huge shocker in the republican pulls that one out. neil: phil murphy, paid his way to play, very wealthy and he could have the trifecta running the legislature and the assembly as well. that s where new jersey could possibly go. how about virginia? you know, neil, this race is very close. i think metrics show that ralph northam, the democrat, is likely to pull that out by a nose. it wouldn t surprise me at all the ed gillespie sneaks an upset. a small victory. he s closing stronger than the democrat. the democrats are nervous. what i would point out, in virginia the statewide office holders don t run as a ticket. so the governor and the lieutenant governor run separately. i can easily see ed gillespie eeking out a small victory but the democrat, the lieutenant governor, this attorney, justin fairfax who is exciting a lot of democrats could win it. could be a split state office slate there at the top in virginia. neil: we ll watch closely. fast-moving times. eric mcpike, thanks. what will happen for you and your money? we re covering this at 8:00 p.m. tonight. as long as it takes, including president of the united states speaking from asia on north korea. a lot happening concurrently. nobody gets better the intersection of wall street with your money and politics. we think that it matters to you. we all pay taxes more than get involved in the markets. we marry both. we will cover both. we ll be there as late as it takes because water told that pizza will be on the company. all right. plenty of pleasant tries back and forth in japan and south korea. china is a crucial player here. what is the president getting out of china in those talks? what potentially could he get? after this. i don t want to sound paranoid, but d ya think our recent online sales success seems a little. strange? na. ever since we switched to fedex ground business has been great. they re affordable and fast. maybe too affordable and fast. what if. people aren t buying these books online, but they are buying them to protect their secrets?!?! hi bill. if that is your real name. it s william actually. hmph! affordable, fast fedex ground. show of hands. let s get started. who wants customizable options chains? ones that make it fast and easy to analyze and take action? how about some of the lowest options fees? are you raising your hand? good then it s time for power e trade the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. alright one quick game of rock, paper, scissors. 1, 2, 3, go. e trade. the original place to invest online. i enjoy the fresher things in life.o. fresh towels. fresh soaps. and of course, tripadvisor s freshest, lowest. .prices. so if you re anything like me. .you ll want to check tripadvisor. we now instantly compare prices. .from over 200 booking sites. .to find you the lowest price. .on the hotel you want. go on, try something fresh. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices. the freestanding, cord-free vacuum that can live anywhere because it has two rechargeable batteries. that means you can always be charging, even while you re cleaning. welcome to hassle-free runtime with shark. even while you re cleaning. his family. his steinway, which met a burst pipe. so grant met his insurance: you are caller number 12. which didn t quite cover the steinway. but what if he d met pure insurance? owned by members. he d have met: lisa, your member advocate. who d introduce him to gustav, a temporary address, and help him get tickets to the mozart festival. excuse me, grant likes beethoven! uh, the beethoven festival. pure. love your insurance. stressing that china is in the best position to actually do something about kim. remember, the 24th of october, china s communist party finished their ten-day long meeting that only occurs every five years where they choose not only the next president, which is xi again but they discuss foreign policy. he s in a better position to be doing this and china have the key to it. neil: china has agreed to the bank of japan this is where they exert influence telling all banks to stop doing business with north korea. not just one commercial institutions but all banks. you think the chinese have honored that, that their word is their bond and they re doing that? well, i think that they have a history of violating sanctions every time we ve imposed sanctions. so i think we have to be going into this with a certain amount of skepticism with regards to china. remember, trump s policy, you do business with north korea, you don t do business with us. that applies to china as well. they have some incentives here to make a difference in this situation with kim. neil: they talk to talk. the criticism, sir, is that they have not walked it. the president will push them to walk it. it s that complicated by the fact that the president there is now almost a diety that makes it very difficult to do so what do you think? i don t know that i buy that logic. the last thing that china needs or wants is war on the korean peninsula. remember, north korea is a buffer between china and the west. certainly south korea, japan and the americans. but i think that they don t want war there. they don t want refugees coming across their border. i ve heard analysts say they don t care. they do care. it s a huge problem for them. china has serious issues. so they have every reason to want to resolve this short of war. neil: let me ask you, general. when you and the president refer to north korean leader as rocketman, something that he s chosen not to do of late, what do you think of that? it s not a term that i would have used. but this is donald trump is. he s unconventional. he s a different guy. he has the chinese as well as the north koreans so confused about who he is, what he is, how far he can be pushed. on balance, it s a positive. it s not what i would have said, not what most politicians would have said. he s not a politician and that s why they don t know what to think of him. they don t know what he will do next. neil: there is that. general, thank you very much. very good seeing you. thank you, neil. neil: we re getting sad confirmation of some news in the baseball world. authorities are confirming that major league baseball pitcher roy halladay has died in a small plane crash in the gulf of mexico off of the coast of florida. the sheriff s office marine unit responding to a downed plane. no survivors. he retired in 2013 after 12 seasons with the toronto blue jays followed by four with the philadelphia phillies. he was the only victim. so presumably the only one on the plane. sounds almost like a thurmond munson type of situation. more after this. delivers more of those purchases to homes than anyone else in the country. ( ) because we know, even the smallest things are sometimes the biggest. sign it. so that s an easy answer for us to give here at the white house. our principles remain the same. we want lower taxes in the middle class, simpler and fairer in the middle class and we want the low corporate tax rate. neil: so you d say if it passed the house and the senate and there were people that could make a case that it s going to raise cases on some in the middle class, the president wouldn t and shouldn t sign it? your caveat is some people say. some people will always say that. say the committee the numbers we believe and why look at. we re not going to sign something that we think raises taxes. neil: do you think the bubble rate of 45.6%, the wall street journal made a big deal about, i know this can get overly picked apart. do you know if he was surprised by that and might say, you know, wait a minute. i have a problem with that? surprise is not the right word. neil: stunned? chagrinned? disappointed? yeah, this is going per plan. keep in mind how this works. we laid out our two principles. middle class gets treated like this, corporate class like that. those are the principles. we left it to the house and later to the senate to fill in the details. we work with them every day and can operating with him. we didn t write the legislation. that s congress ideal. they wanted that authority and got it. so we ll see what they come up with. we re helping where with can and pushing where we can. i m not going to sort of give an opinion on what the final bill look like. we re along way from being finished here. neil: you re right about that. the senate finance committee will have their own plan and reconcile the differences. do you know at this point whether it will be a dramatic difference between what the house ways and means has come up with? i actually i get the gut, neil, there s not dramatic differences. that s why that frame work that we put out about eight weeks ago is so critical. that was a list of major principles that everybody agreed on. the house leadership, the senate and the white house. the fact that we hammered out those big issues before that legislative process started really is what gives me the confidence to say look, there s disagreements between the house and the senate but not on the big stuff. the corporate rate is 20%. the big pieces are established. you ll have disagreements on the smaller stuff but the basic principles are set. neil: people have gone back and forth on this and the timing of votes and everything else. you were quoted as saying that you were not confident there would be democratic votes there despite all the overtures republicans made to democrats to make this less of a rich tax cut. they still argue it s a benefit to the rich. so do you think that your colleagues, your old friends in the house, did a lot to win over and impressed democrats for nothing? i m not sure that that quote that you just gave for me sounds like it was partially correct. if they know it is going to pass, many may vote for it. i spent talking more time in the senate in the house but the same principal applies. democrats are not in a place to give us the votes necessary to get it across the finish line. if we can convince them it s going to pass without their support, there s a bunch of democrats that think that this is good policy. neil: so it s more of a senate issue than a house issue? i think if we look at it because the margins are tighter in the senate than the house. neil: you re a big deficit hawk in your days in the house. everything was fair game for you to go after and the wrath against this tax cut given the rules that are in place here going back to the 70s and the bird room and all of that and making the numbers add up and balance out, it limits what you can do period. in the end, everyone seems to be disappointed. those that want big tax cuts, they re disappointed. people that want control over the deficit like john mccain, they re disappointed. was it worth it? oh, it s absolutely worth it. i still am a big deficit hawk. that s why i m spending so much time on this bill and encouraging congress to pass it. the deficit equation is simple. it s revenues minus expenses. when you have revenues smaller than deficits neil: you ll have a deficit here. $1.5 trillion more. i don t think that number is right. i think senator corker, another big deficit hawk that that $1.5 trillion now is a smoke and mirrors number. the bottom line, two pieces. spending and revenues. we tried hard to draw attention to spending. the house and the senate in their wisdom chose not to take most of our spending reductions. that leaves us on the revenue side. we have to grow the economy and make us richer so the government gets richer and drives up the revenues. that s why i m so focused on taxes. i need the growth to help reduce the deficit. neil: the timetable they have is to try to get this out of the house by thanksgiving. out of the senate and signed by the president by christmas. still doable? yeah. i think i heard senator mcconnell is threatening to bring the senators back the saturday after thanksgiving. i will buy your turkey if that happens. i think we re still on schedule. go back a couple weeks to where the house accented the senate version of the budget without any amendments. that saved us between 10 and 12 days depending how you count. that helped a lot. i think we re still on schedule to vote before thanksgiving. the senate to vote after that. both houses passed their separate bills before december. that allowed the conference committees to work out the differences before christmas. neil: maybe they don t need a lobby to whine on their behalf. but the top 1%, the very rich are ticked off and they feel they ve been loyal supporters of the president, his policies and republicans in general. they feel they got the shift on this thing. what do you say? it depends. here s what i tell folks. when i go on your network, folks accuse me of raising taxes on the rich or us as our proposal. i go to any other network and they accuse of cutting taxes on the rich. sounds like we re in the center. in fairness, more seriously, you can t give an opinion on a specific impact on a specific taxpayer until you see a final version of the bill. what is important for the president i hate to repeat myself the president s fundamental principles were middle class pays less and it s simpler for them and fail and corporations get down to the 20% rate. that s what we focus on. the rest is up to the house and the senate. neil: we shall see. mick mulvaney, the budget director. if wall street had any worries about the back and forth, funny way of showing it. fourth time in a row, a record for the dow. more after this. 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(avo) victoza® is not for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not take victoza® if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to victoza® or any of its ingredients. stop taking victoza® and get medical help right away if you get symptoms of a serious allergic reaction such as rash, swelling, difficulty breathing or swallowing. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis. so, stop taking victoza® and call your doctor right away if you have severe pain in your stomach area. tell your doctor your medical history. gallbladder problems have happened in some people. tell your doctor right away if you get symptoms. taking victoza® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. common side effects are nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, decreased appetite, indigestion, and constipation. side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. ask your doctor about victoza®. neil: all right. welcome back. you heard mick mulvaney will not sign a bill that raises taxes on the middle class. steny hoyer joins us right now. the democrat from maryland. a big honcho in the democratic party. congressman, very good to have you. thanks for taking the time. good to be with you, neil. neil: what do you make of that that mick mulvaney says it s not going to happen. the president won t sign it. what do you think? i think it s based upon the bill fake news. clearly the analysis of the ball shows that some 41 million americans are going to get a tax hike of which 24 million are so-called middle class americans, middle income americans. so i don t know what mulvaney is talking about. neil: what he s talking about, sir, to be clear, is that if five years a lot of these credits expire. once those credits expire, then if they re not replaced, then yeah, at that time you re paying high taxes. what do you think? the law we re going to provide will analyze that. so what you re saying isn t true unless you change the bill. if they change the bill, if they change the projections or if someone legislation is passed in the future on which they re relying, maybe they can try to sell that argument. that s not the bill that s being considered today. very frankly, it blows a hole in the debt. president trump said he was going to balance the budget two months after he was in the presidency said i can t do that. defense is more important to me. frankly, one of the reasons we have this big debt, there s something that is more important to everybody, every region, every voter. neil: and both parties. democrats talking about the debt and deficits just as republicans prior. both parties spend like drunken sailors. neil, as you know, the budget was balanced four years in a row under bill clinton. the only president neil: what happened the last eight years? prior to trump? 88% increase in the debt under george bush, 87% increase. neil: i m not casting political aspersions. i m just wondering where the middle ground might be found. on this tax cut, do you subscribe to the belief that republicans are saying tax cuts he sometime hate revenues and growth and that goes a long way to paying this? you re in that camp that says no, not in this case? i m not a dynamic scorer person. the reason, neil, i m not, i think dynamic scoring is a gamble. do i think tax cuts or tax increases for that matter have an impact on spending and taxes? i do. so i don t think dynamic scoring is without a rationale. what i think it is a gamble. alan greenspan said these tax cuts will pay for themselves. five years later, he came back and testified before the ways and means committee, no, i was wrong, they don t pay for themselves. the conservative tax foundation has estimated that the increase in the debt under this bill this is the conservative think tank $989 billion. neil: you re right about that. what i m curious about, sir, where we go from here. because what i do notice regardless what you think of this republican plan and a lot of warts in it to your point, we ll still have about half the people in the country pay nothing federal income tax at all. they still pay payroll taxes. there s fewer and fewer americans carrying the burden for this. i m wondering whether there s room for a plan that includes everybody, everybody paying something. something into this. i tend to agree with that, neil, as you may know. frankly you say where do we go from here. where we ought to go from here is where we went under ronald reagan and tip o neal. we ought to go to a place where in a bipartisan way we can agree on a number of things. number 1, i would not be for using dynamic scoring. if you get a bonus, if it has a positive result, then you have a bonus. you have extra money that you can apply to bringing down the dealt and investing in social security, healthcare, the national security. but you have a bonus. the problem is if you re not right and you lose, then you put a bigger hole in the debt. but we ought to come together in a bipartisan way. for instance, president obama three years ago said we needed to bring down the corporate tax. so essentially we have agreement that we ought to bring down the tax. there will be difference of agreement where you bring it down to, et cetera, how that works. so i think there s neil: john boehner said the former speaker said some choice things. but he said that the president broke an agreement that was part of a budget-making deal. so i guess what i m asking you because you brought it up, let me say that i was in a meeting with the president on the thursday night harry reid, dick durbin, nancy pelosi and myself. i was majority leader then. we talked to the president. he said, what do you think about this deal? we didn t think it was a big enough deal. we said big enough deal in terms of paying down the debt. if in fact this is what we can agree on, we ll take the deal and we ll sell it to our members. what frankly happened is john boehner came back to the freedom caucus and others and they would not buy any tax increase, no revenues as you know. neil: that was a missed opportunity then. maybe hope springs eternal. let s hope. i would be willing to sit down and discuss that and work towards that end. neil: steny hoyer, thanks very much. sorry to jump on you there. thank you. thank you. neil: all right. before the polls close in virginia and a big race there that could decide how things are going next year? after this. when i look in the mirror everyday. when i look in the mirror everyday. everyday, i think how fortunate i am. i think is today going to be the day, that we find a cure? i think how much i can do to help change people s lives. i may not benefit from those breakthroughs, but i m sure going to. i m bringing forward a treatment for alzheimer s disease, yes, in my lifetime, i will make sure. eight hundred dollars when wet switched our auto and home insurance. with liberty, we could afford a real babysitter instead of your brother. hey. oh. that s my robe. is it? you could save seven hundred eighty two dollars when liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance. fairfax county for the democrats, they re reporting a 30.6% turnout, not counting absentee ballots, and they re begging people on social media not to stay home because of the rain. right now, the democrat, ralph northam does lead in recent surveys. they re trying to defend this governorship, democrats are, held by terry mccullough. but ed gillespie says he thinks he s leading. and his campaign is getting a boost by president trump. the republican party of virginia is behind a call going out on the candidate s behalf featuring president trump s voice saying ed gillespie can help make great again. another thing that is making a difference, backlash from the ad that northam backers aired that showed a truck with a gillespie bumper sticker chasing down minorities with a backlash. neil: thanks, peter. an interesting foot note with the president. again, this distant relationship might have been the perfect balance that could help gillespie. too early to say. a better idea tonight. more after this. but i also knowt we re gonna have usaa insurance for both my boys. it s something that they re not even gonna have to think of. it s just gonna be in the family. we re the tenneys and we re usaa members for life. the market.redict but through good times and bad. .at t. rowe price. .we ve helped our investors stay confident for over 75 years. call us or your advisor. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. neil: two hours until polls close in virginia, three hours in new jersey. at 8:00, special coverage to take you through the results in both states.
like to be on the white house staff. got to watch twitter to see what people are going to do. you were in, you were around when the colin kaepernick protests were going on when he was playing for the 49ers. what did you think then about that? i fully supported his right to speak out. i thought he made some mistakes, some big mistakes early. he wore the socks. remember the socks that were pigs in policemen ewan forps. he didn t have a clear message at first. but i supported his right to protest and i think what he did was really admirable. he went out and sought the advice of a man named nate boyer, a former player with a seahawks. a military veteran, who gave kaepernick the advice to kneel. he said in stead of sitting on the bench, kneel. it s also a sign of respect. if you think about you bow in front of somebody. and so this was the advice kaepernick sought out. he sort of refined his message, saying i thought things had made more sense in terms of clarifying what he was protesting. i thought he had a really powerful message and it s proven to be very much so. you re a great judge of aet leets. you recognize talent. why isn t he in the nfl now? colin cappkaepernick. he s clearly a much better player than a lot of guys who are playing back up quarterback around the league. i think there s two reasons he s not in the nfl. one the marketing. i think the owners are are concerneded about their fan base and two, and these reasons really go hand in hand. the distraction that he would cause. given modern media. the way we live. the minute he signs with a team, can you imagine the media throng, the attention that will be on every game? and so i understand. i totally understand a general manager who doesn t want to deal with that. you think about tim tebow, for example. tim tebow was such a a then the president kind of brought it up out of the blue. wouldn t you love to see one of these nfl owners when somebody disrespects our flag? to say get the son of a bitch off the field right now in he s fired. this is another reason why i think all of us and our team have a tough time with the president because it s instead of unifying and trying to calm the storm, he s creating it over and over again. we see it with his tweets every day. so that was you know, he used the word sons of bitches to talk about nfl players who had made it clear they re protesting racial inequality and police brutality. those are sons of bitches? you re the president of the united states. you re going to call kaepernick out for nonviolent protests, staple of american democracy. that s really hard to deal with. and that was for me, that was probably the hardest one to deal with. the personal slights that we ve seen from trump. i mean you sort of get used to it after a while. you get numb to it. that one really stung. because it was so devicive. and it was so angry. and it just didn t make sense. but in certain ways, it had the desired effect in that he sort of dominated the news. there s also a constituent. you ve seen the nfl took a hit around it and the owners were scrambling around that issue, so there was, it was you know, maybe diabolically clever. it was, but is that the president s job to be diabolically clever? no, i understand. draymond green, your wonderful player, very outspoken. he was at harvard the other day giving a talk. and he got into this kole qui with mark cube ben. long distance. because draymond said i don t think we should call people who run teams as owners. and i had never thought about it in those terms before. did you talk to him about that before he went an gave that talk? oh, no, draymond says what he wants, anytime he wants, which is what i love about him. i had never heard that argument either. the idea that referencing an owner would be offensive, but of course, you and i are white guys. we like, we ve grown up in a different background, different environment. and i think that was draymond s point. said we all have sort of a different circumstance in life and you ve got to think about everybody s circumstance. put yourself in somebody else s shoes. it makes perfect sense. silence, there s little cross pollination. discussion. how much has being a player and being a coach sensitized you to issues you never would have been sensitive to? it s really one of the great blessings in my life is to have been raised overseas in different cultures with different people from all over the world. and then from actually junior high on, basically living and working, or going to school in integrated situations and then being in the nba for i guess 27 years now, whatever, 29 years, it s a multicultural melting pot work environment and you just, you understand. you start to see where everybody comes from and you know, my old coach, he has one of the great sayings. we re at accident of birth. we re not asked to be born into the situations. we re born black, white, poor, whatever. we are who we are. and it s so important to understand who the other person is and where he came from. because in most cases, it s very different and the more you can learn about that person, the easier it is to get out of that silo that you mentioned. and understand that there s nuance to everything. in the world. i follow your twitter feed. it s mostly not about sports. it s mostly about public issues and the question comes up why should people care. what you or what athletes say. you re prominent because of your work. why should folks look to you guys for political inspiration? they shouldn t. they don t need to. if they don t want to, then they don t have to. but everybody s got a twitter feed. why does anybody care. there are people who probably shouldn t. exactly. to me, this is more a question of you know, how the world works now and social media and just the whole way we operate. everybody has a voice. it just so happens that if you re famous, more people are going to follow you. do you feel a responsibility because you re famous to speak out on these issue sns. that s a good question. i don t know that i feel a responsibility. it s more just in my heart. i m so, so disgusted by the lack of sensible gun policy. i m so disgusted. i know that s a lot of what you ve been tweeting about. i tweet a lot. mostly retweet stuff. especially in the position that i m in. you know, i used to tweet when i was a commentator for tnt and i would tweet about basketball as with everything in twitter, stuff gets thrown back in my face all the time. so like years ago, i think working at tnt, lebron had a huge game and i tweeted something like if i could pick one player to have f in a road game, game seven in the playoffs, i d take lebron. you think any cleveland fans might have retweeted that after cleveland beat us on the road in game seven? so i ve learned my lesson. i m more interested in retweeting articles. trying to spread the word if i see something really sensible. nick kristof wrote a great piece in the new york times with two weeks ago about comparing gun safety to the automobile industry. and you know, in the 50s, you were nine times as like ly to de in a car accident than you are today and the reason it s gone down is simple safety measures. seat belts. car seats. speed limits. you know, making sure drivers license background stuff was thorough and the right people were behind the wheel. and the whole article was like we don t have to take away people s second amendment rights, but what we need is some common sense and yet, people ar. we don t do anything. that s ridiculous to me and it drives me crazy and so i m constantly retweeting stuff that i read about that issue because it means something to me. coming up next. as steph curry, i guarantee you he s never talked one time about oh my gosh, wonder what happens if i mis. he just goes out there and plays. en it comes to helping her daughter, shopping for groceries, unclogging the sink, setting updentist appointments and planning birthday parties, nobody does it better. she s also in a rock band. look at her shred. but when it comes to mortgages, she s less confident. fortunately for maria, there s rocket mortgage by quicken loans. it s simple, so she can understand the details and be sure she s getting the right mortgage. apply simply. understand fully. mortgage confidently. so how old do you want uhh, i was thinking around 70. alright, and before that? 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well watch this. i pop that in there. press brew. that s it. so rich. i love it. that s why you should be a keurig man! full-bodied. are you sure you re describing the coffee and not me? full-bodied. fl[ gasps, laughs ]c, progressive gives you options based on your budget. you ever feel like. cliché foil characters scheming against a top insurer for no reason? nah. so, why don t we like flo? she has the name your price tool, and we want it. but why? why don t we actually do any work? why do you only own one suit? it s just the way it is, underdeveloped office character. you re right. thanks, bill. no, you re bill. i m tom. you know what? no one cares. .has grown into an enterprise. that s why i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. now, i m earning unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase i make. everything. what s in your wallet? can this much love be cleaned by a little bit of dawn ultra? oh yeah one bottle has the grease cleaning power of three bottles of this other liquid. a drop of dawn and grease is gone. i look at you and i would say, well this guy is like the missing beach boy. you have the blond hair. the blue eyes and so on. i think the asunlgts mgts is th grew up playing basketball in the u.s. and went to the university of arizona and the rest flowed from there, but you spent part of your life here, but part of your life in the middle east. talk about what that was like. you were very much not in the mainstream of culture. what did you learn from that experience? well i sort of had the best of both worlds. i was born in beirut. my grandparents settled there after world war i. they had a great his ary of running an or fannage. we spent a lot of time in los angeles and periodically, he would take sabbaticals overseas. he was a professor of meiddle east earn history. you were there during your junior high school years. three years in cairo. a year in france. a summer in tunisia. i ve lived in different cultures. i ve seen speak arabic. i did speak it pretty well. enough to get around when i was there for a couple of years. and i saw americans in cairo. we were beloved. this is the late 70s. beloved. we stood for our culture. everybody copied us. and we were beloved. i i think we still are for the most part. in a lot of places around the world. but people are wondering what the hell happened to us. they don t love our foreign policy. they don t love what s happening with our government, but i think they still love american values. whether we re hanging on to that. i saw all that. i saw different perspectives. i saw how people saw us. then i was in someone else s backyard, having to adapt to their culture. those are great things to experience as a human being. your dad went back to beirut in the early 80s to become president of the american university in beirut. it was a real difficult time there. it was. it was his dream job. having been raised at the university literally then going to school there. speaking fluent arabic. loving the culture. in beirut. loving the idea of bringing people, students to the university who can foster peace and understanding amongst all the different religious groups. he loved that. he loved that challenge. he loved the idea and when the job came up, he knew it was dapg rouse, but i think he felt somewhat protected because of his background and because of his reputation. but obviously that in a weird paradoxical way, it was those qualities that made him a target. he was a force for reconciliation for understanding. he was a positive image for the u.s. that s right. and he became the most prominent american in beirut at the time because you mentioned the embassy bombing. marine bar ricks that were bombs. 300 marines were killed. awful. the military lapse. the embassy basically after it was bombed, i don t remember if it was closed, but it was obviously basically shut down for the most part. the american university campus became sort of the next most obvious place where you were going to find americans and he was the president. then you got a call. your dorm room. 3:00 in the morning. my dorm room and a man named bahin, good armenian name, he worked at the university, great family friend. he called me to give me the news that my dad had been shot and killed and obviously, you know, my whole world changed and our family s whole lives. ended in a certain way and a new life had to begin and it was pretty rough. you and your dad were close. he was very invested in you and in your aspirations to be a basketball player. helped you secure your scholarship and so on. i ask you this as someone, i lost my father when i was in college. we were under different circumstances, but also very difficult circumstances. suddenly and unexpectedly. and it was like i felt completely alone. yeah. you were alone. your family was overseas. what did you do? well i turned to my teammates. that s one of the beautiful things about sports, it s like a built in family. kind of a cocoon and you can lose yourself in sports, in physical activity. so i went to practice the next day. my teammates knew what happened, obviously, my coach. i spent, like i slept for three hours on his couch in his office the next day when it happened. i didn t sleep all night. i didn t know what to do. but i practiced that afternoon. i needed to think about something else. and so i just kept playing and going to school and you just move on. you practiced the next day and had a game the next night. i think it was a few nights later, maybe three or four days later. but that game was something that was sort of noted nationally because the entire arena kind of grieved with you. right, right. it was the kind of thing that back then, was kind of, it was a local story. you know, if today if that happened, it would be you know, it would have been miserable to deal with that you know, it would have been a national story. it would have been unbearable. but at the time, it was at least an era where there wasn t this 24/7 invasion of your privacy that happens all the time now. but i dealt with you know, the local media or whatever and the game itself was very emotional. and fans were so supportive and from that point on, i became like an adoptive son in tucson and people there were so amazing. they took care of me and the basketball program, the coaches, my teammates and i was lucky. the team and the guys carried me through a really difficult time because as you said, my family was still overseas. i m sure you think about as i think about sort of the fact that my dad never saw what happened. what would he say about your he wouldn t believe it. i was not even recruited out of high school. i didn t secure the scholarship to arizona until literally about a month before school started so this was, this would have been so farfetched. but my dad loved sports. he loved ed basketball. we used to go to the ucla games. john wood ner. no one would have predicted you would have the kind of career that you had as player and you got to play with some extraordinary, great, great players. including michael jordan. i m so interested in how athletes elevate themselves to be greater than the rest. who the athletes who kind of can take charge of that moment when everybody else is, i don t want to take the shot. you take the shot. what is it about the psyche of a michael jordan, a tim duncan, a david robson, the kind of players you played with that separates them from the rest? yeah. it s an interesting dynamic. you got a few of them now certainly steph curry would fit in that. it s a really, it s one of the fun things about coaching is you get to really see somebody s soul and what they re about. and everybody obviously in the nba brings something to the table. they re all such tall enented players or they wouldn t be here. there are just u certain guys who seem to rise above the rest of them. it s fearlessness. it s lack of self-consciousness. it s, it s work ethic. it s prepping for that moment. and all the best players, you mention ed tim duncan. michael jordan. larry byrd. all the best guys are the ones that have the most skill combined with the guts that you re referencing and that s an amazing combination. the guts to not worry about making a mistake. yeah. i still remember michael had this commercial when he was still playing. 26 times, i ve been trusted the take the game winning shot and missed. that commercial really struck me. because you think of michael jord jordan, you think he made every shot. he didn t make every shot. if you can make half of them in the clutch, you re doing really well. but you re going to fail half the time so you have to be able to accept failure. the hardest thing for me to accept, i was not a clutch player and shooter because i was too self-conscious, to insecure about the judgment that would come my way. and i finally kind of got over that hump halfway through my career where i said screw it, you got to go for it. that was something i had to work at. my guys, like steph curry, i guarant guarantee you, he s never thought, what if i miss. he just goes out there and plays. no conscious. especially difficult today. the amount of judgment that exists for these guys. these young guys. we are getting judged not just daily, but by the minute. every single step these guys take. everything they do, everything they say is critiqued and judged and so that s a big part of being professional athlete these days. is dealing with all that stuff and still being able to perform at a high level. jordan also had this, an edge that was effort evident on the court. aparticipantly in practice as well. i think you got into a scrap with him once. michael was the most intense practice player i ve ever been around. his theory was he was going to put pressure on us every day in practice. and the pressure that comes with adversity. it was not easy being his teammate. he challenged you. you had to stand up to him and prove your worth. so got into it one day. we got into a little bit. it s something that happens frankly three times a year on every team, but when michael jordan is involved, it gets a little more. i think people didn t think of you as the most likely match for him. i m not going to beat anybody, but i ll fight people. i m going to lose every time, but i ve got a competitive, insecure streak in me that i want to win so badly. when i was playing, i knew i wasn t that xwood. i knew i was the worst athlete on the floor every night, so i was insecure, but the only way the to succeed was to compete and work and fight and scrap and claw. coming up next. lots of people are gl i will campaign for pop. i will absolutely campaign for pop. i would not be his running mate. together, great things come in twos. like t-mobile and netflix. right now when you get an unlimited family plan, netflix is included. ho ho ho! t-mobile covers your netflix subscription. best christmas gift ever! .so you can binge watch all year long. now you re thinking christmas! and now when you buy any of this season s hot new samsung galaxy phones, you get a second one free to gift. that s one samsung for you. and one to give. t-mobile. holiday twogether. your privacy makes you myt number 1 place to go number 2. i love you, but sometimes you stink. febreze air effects doesn t just mask, it cleans away odors. because the things you love the most can stink. and try febreze small spaces to clean away odors for up to 30 days. breathe happy with febreze. if you wear a denture, you not only want a clean feeling every day, you want your denture to be stain free. did you know there s a specialty cleanser that s gentle enough for everyday use and cleans better than regular toothpaste? 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[beep] home wok restaurant. need a review? no! he s smart but his mind wanders. [beep] seven wonders of the world. why don t you understand me? [beep] i do. i was trying to show how connor feels every day. redirecting to understood.org narrator: join parents and experts at understood.org. a free online resource about learning and attention issues to help your child thrive. and change the way you wifi. you ve played for these legendary coaches. phil jackson. lenny wilkins. greg popoveitch. greg simmons. great coach. played for him my rookie year if phoenix. real character. what did you learn from them. boy, i learned everything from them. they were all what makes a great coach? i think what makes a great coach is the connection, the authentic connection. between player and coach and the awareness of what that player needs and knows what the team is. t not about xs and os. that s a part of it. but there s lots out there that can draw up a great play. it s about the human connection and that s where popoveitch and phil jackson were so brilliant that i think of in terms of motivating, not by ra ra, let s go get them, team, but by fu finding about what s important. learning about your family. keeping things interesting and fun and different. the cumulative effect of all that is he just, you get this great sort of cruising sennation through the season where every day is fun and you re building and building and building. and obviously, they would both readily admit and when you have great talent, that helps. makes it a lot easier. my job is so much easier. i pattern myself after those guys in terms of the dynamics i just mentioned, just the joy that comes with play iing and t continuity and the relationship. but if we didn t have great talent, i would have been fired by now. just the nature of the nba. everything is about talent. you talk about the arc of a basketball season. i ve thought a lot about this sports and campaigns, presidential campaigns. and they are slr similar in the sense they re long. they have ups and downs. and when you re not performing the way you should and you re doing it under the watchful eye of millions of people who think they can do better than you and who let you know. social media has made it even more so it seems to me that part of it is part of the leadership role and i saw it in barack obama, frankly, in our campaigns, is to help the team through those not to get too low. not to get too high. to think long. and not short. yeah, for sure. accepting the judgment and criticism that s coming. sometimes we make fun of it. we ll you know, we might show somebody s tweet or comment in a film session just to as a reminder of you know how silly this whole existence is. that everything we do is cross-suit si skrut size nuysed the way it is. we try to make light of it and really zero in on what s important. not just how we re going to guard the pick and roll, but what s important to each player. we let family come on flights. popoveitch was the first coach i had who did that. it s amazing how positive it is for a player when he can bring his kids on a road trip. we have team dinners all the time. our ownership is great b about understanding the chemistry that comes with team meals. get away from the court. the locker room. get into a restaurant. have a dplaglass of wine with y teammate. all that stuff matters in the course of a season and when you can put it all together with great talent, it fits together and great personalities and guys who are competitive and hungry. you got something and that s what we ve been able to do here! part . part of it is subject gaiting your ego to the group. you re the leader, but you don t want to overshadow the group. yeah. that s right. and yet, you have to maintain your authority. over the group. and that s sort of the trick. that s where phil and pop were really powerful. liblg when i played for both of them, there was f a part of me that was a little afraid of them. just a little. but i knew how much they loved me and respected me and cared about me. that accommodation was really powerful. you can t, your team can t walk all over you. about three times a year, i would snam and go nuts ch you don t want to disappoint your dad, right? if your dad is very patient. that s how my dad was. he was very, very patient. but every once in a while, he would get so upset and i d be like oh my god, i don t want to dispoiappoint him. that can be the role of a coach or any leader. you re magnanimous and supportive and you re emotionally there and you re loving and caring, but every once in a while, you ve just got to snap and remind them of the goal and what we re trying to accomplish and occasionally during the season, that happens and i try to steer them back on course and but it has to be natural, too. it has to come from the heart. that s the key. if everything is authentic and you trust each other, then the whole group dynamic will work. you were absent from the bench for long periods of time. over the last couple of years. and you were dealing with chronic pain. what happened? i still am. i still deal with chronic pain every day. i had what i thought was a routine back surgery 2015 after the finals and unfortunately, there s no such thing as routine back surgery. i didn t really realize that at the time. i ve had a lot of friends who have had the surgery, done great, i thought no brainer. but had a spinal fluid leak. which is can cause a lot of problems. with equilibrium and can cause a lot of pain. been dealing with it ever since ch i ve made some improvement, but i m not all the way better. i m sure you can watch games where i m rubbing my eyes and holing my neck. i m still dealing with a lot of pain. how has it impacted your ability to do what you do? well, it more than anything, it just impacts my ability to just enjoy the day. you know it doesn t impact my coaching. it doesn t like cognitively, it doesn t do anything, it s just discomfort. it s pain and discomfort. i love to be outdoors. i love to play golf. i love to hike and surf and i haven t been able to do as much of that. i think i read somewhere marijuana was one of the things didn t help. i tried it. it s amazing. i ve learned so much during this two years i ve been prescribed painkillers, opioids. have you used them? never. i shouldn t say never. i tried one pill and it was so disconcerting and it didn t help with my pain. and so i stopped. but i started reading about it. it was terrifying. and then so i tried medicinal marijuana, that didn t help either, unfortunately, but i became an advocate for it, which is very ironic because i was the kid in high school who never, i took a puff of marijuana for the first time on my 40th birthday. and it didn t do anything for me. i was a drinker. in college. and i still am. i like my beer and wine. but i ve never tried pot till i was 40. didn t do anything for me. tried it again in a medicinal way. didn t help with my pain and haven t tried it since, but i m a proponent of it as a painkiller because i know it has helped a lot of people and it s much healthier than the stuff we re being prescribed. do you see yourself on the bench for, is this what you want to do? is this the job of your dreams? this is yet. this is what i love to do. and i would love to be greg and coach for the next 20 years with the same organization. i have no desire to leave the warriors, the bay area. i realize how farfetched that idea is because nba coaches don t last for long period of time in one city. pop is the exception rather than the rule, but that would be my dream. you probably have seen this, but there are people who have an idea for both of you guys, which is this the popoveitch kerr 2020 ticket. lots of people are thinking of running for president. i will campaign for pop. i will also campaign for pop. i would not be his running mate. we d have to find another one for him. i want you to sign this shirt for me. we can do that. you want me to get pop to sign it, too? we should do that. yes. i told him when these shirts came about we were laughing about it. and i told him, i said if we do it, i ll take care of california, but you re going to have that s very generous of you. yeah, yeah. do you see yourself being actively involved on behalf of candidates in the future? assuming pop isn t running. you ve said you re for him. not really. i ve really shied away from i m not afraid to talk about politics. i don t like our system. i hate our system. i hate the campaign financing. i hate the money involved. so i have a hard time just you know, supporting a candidate period. it s swrus, i wish we could change the whole system. coming up u next. how does he compare to jordan? couldn t be any more different. as a personality. as a human being. jay chooses to run every day. so we re in a hotel in philadelphia. you ve blown our cover. we ve done an interview u in the past. of course i m going in with you. excellent. i show up in room 781. and i m looking at my whole life. this is your life. this is my life that you guys put together. now i m in here and people are watching going, man i that guy loves himself, doesn t he? he s got gjejerseys everywhere. pictures of himself. your exonerate eexonerated. this is purely for our use, but we re going to have over here and take a look. if we can get up and do that. so i have to ask you though about this one. when were in you in the partridge family? that s got to be college. pretty embarrassing. you led five championships as a player? yep. of all of those teams, what was the most memorable experience? probably the first one. the team and the title and just as you guys. your team had the record. we didn t finish it off. we didn t win the title. it was an amazing group to be part of. you were a bench player. how did you feel totally integrated? into this? i think that year was my third year. fourth year with the bulls. so i had kind of accomplished myself as a part of the team. but then when michael came back in 95, that s when obviously things took off for the franchise again and we won three in a row, 96-98. michael coming back just changed my whole course of my entire career. until that point, i was making a living and i was made it in the league and i was scrap iping. well, it s nice because i don t want people to think that you only think of yourself so that you have one of your own players jerseys here. in my den i have 17 pictures of myself and then one steph curry picture. that s how i operate. how does he compare to jordan? couldn t be any more different as a personality as a human being. similar to the passion for the game and his impact in terms of game planning, what he does to the defense. i ve never seen anybody do it the way he does. there are certain players where you just have to the other team have to game plan, michael jordan, shaq, larry bird. you just have to contact a defense of scheme. not many players you can say that about but steph because of his shooting ability, 35 feet away changes the entire strategy and the lineups that the other team has to put out there. so more than anything, though, just an amazing human being, co compassionate, humble and on the floor just arrogant as all hell, which i just love. i am totally blind. and non-24 can throw my days and nights out of sync, keeping me from the things i love to do. talk to your doctor, and call 844-214-2424. but having his parents over was enlightening. you don t like my lasagna? no, it s good. -hmm. -oh. huh. 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and who sent her in. and, those are men in wingsuits, trying to fly right into that plane. good evening, it s great to have you with us on a very busy tuesday night. we begin with north korea late today launching a new missile, this time flying higher and longer than any it has launched before. tonight, what it reveals about their ability to reach this country. it s the third icbm launch, the other two in july. each reaching farther than the one before it. the launch, a direct provocation to the u.s. tonight. president trump responding moments ago. here s bob woodruff. reporter: tonight, north korea acts again. and this time, we know that president trump was being briefed as the missile was in the air. the new missile test is another intercontinental ballistic missile. what makes this missile different, it flew higher and longer than ever before. 90 minutes after it splashed down in the sea of japan, the president addressing the provocative move. a missile was launched a little while ago from north korea. i will only tell you that we will take care of it. it is a situation that we will handle. reporter: this is north korea s third icbm launch. it shot 2,800 miles into space, flying for 50 minutes. but experts warn if angled for distance instead of altitude, the same missile could reach deep into the u.s. mainland. including, new york, washington, d.c., and miami. and tonight, the defense secretary knows that. it s a research and development effort on their part to continue building ballistic missiles that can threaten everywhere in the world basically. reporter: the world listening, when president trump warned this. they will be met with fire, and fury, like the world has never seen. reporter: but weeks ago, in asia, president trump with a change of tone. i really believe that it makes sense for north korea to come to the table and to make a deal that s good for the people of north korea and the people of the world. i do see certain movement, yes. bob, we know it s been 75 days since north korea launched a ballistic missile. any indications as to why now, after the president signaled hope for talks while in asia? reporter: one possible change, it was just a week ago that president trump relisted north korea as a state sponsor of terrorism, so that could have made a difference. bob, thank you. back home to a suspected serial killer. police are right now questioning a man. could he be the suspected killer they ve been looking for for months? victor oquendo in tampa. reporter: tonight, police say they are questioning this man who could be connected to a string of murders in a tampa neighborhood. officers responding to a tip about someone with a gun at a local mcdonald s. we confronted the person who had the gun, we now have them. we are interviewing them to see what they can tell us about this gun that they have. reporter: police say they ve gotten more than 5,000 tips but tonight they say are hopeful they could have a break in the case. i m guarded on the whole thing but i m very optimistic and we ll see. it s gonna be a long night. reporter: earlier police have identified this man as their suspect seen on surveillance moments before the latest victim was gunned down november 14th. they believe he is the same man spotted on multiple cameras near the scene of the first murder. all four victims walking alone, killed at night or early morning just blocks apart, shot at random. for weeks this community has been living in fear, police doing nightly patrols. after the last shooting, the fbi going door-to-door. seen here on this doorbell camera. residents urged to stay inside while teams hunted for the killer they believed could be hiding out in their own neighborhood. many arming themselves for their protection. victor, on the case from the start. police now examining that gun tonight? reporter: that s right. the chief of police saying they have a gun, but haven t determined if it s connected to the murders. this man could be completely innocent, so they re keeping up their nightly patrols. victor, thank you. we move on to your money, taxes, and president trump. this evening, a reality check. who benefits the most from the tax bill? the middle class, wealthy, the corporations? mary bruce breaks it down. reporter: president trump on capitol hill today. an all-out push to rally republicans around tax reform. mr. president, can you seal the deal on tax reform? moments later, it cleared a major hurdle. the senate budget committee signing off on the bill over the shouts of protesters. but outside, republican senators were surrounded. protesters outraged over who wins and who loses in this bill. stealing money from the sick and the poor! reporter: analysts say the wealthy, those earning more than $100,000 a year, would likely see big tax cuts. but more than half of americans would see their taxes rise within ten years. by 2027, most americans earning less than $75,000 per year are projected to pay more. what do you say to middle class americans who see these projections and are concerned that their taxes are going to go up? i say that people are lying to them. reporter: you think the projections are all wrong? i do, i do. reporter: there s also concern about the impact of the bill s provision to eliminate the obamacare mandate that every american has health insurance. it could cause premiums to skyrocket. health care is a right, not just for the rich and white! reporter: on the flip side, the most recent plan also includes a tax break for owners of private jets and golf courses. even a tax credit for wine producers. and a huge tax cut for big corporations. no tax cuts for corporations! reporter: republicans insist the benefits will trickle down and ultimately help the middle class. listen, listen, go away! reporter: but these protesters aren t buying it. if this bill works the way i think, all these loud people will be proven to be loud and i will be proven to be right. if it doesn t do what i think it will do, then we will lose. mary, the senate could vote as soon as thursday. where does the voting math stand at this hour? reporter: this is far from a done deal. senate republicans can only afford to lose two votes. and tonight, by our count, at least ten have serious concerns. but many of them tell us they were encouraged today in discussion with the president. mary, thanks. and the president facing another major deadline that could affect everyone. the government runs out of money next friday. could there be a government shutdown? after the president dined with chuck schumer and nancy pelosi, what was behind the president s tweet today, and their immediate response? and how does it help avert a shutdown? here s jonathan karl. reporter: it was just a couple of months ago that president trump was chumming around in the oval office with democratic leaders chuck schumer and nancy pelosi, striking a temporary spending deal on their terms. a week later, bonding over chinese food and chocolate cream pie. but today, the president found himself flanked by empty chairs. pelosi and schumer boycotting a planned bipartisan sitdown after trump attacked them on twitter. meeting with chuck and nancy today about keeping the government open and working. problem is, they want illegal immigrants flooding into our country unchecked, are weak on crime and want to substantially raise taxes. i don t see a deal! the president said i don t see a deal three hours before our meeting. before he heard anything we had to say. reporter: schumer and pelosi said, thanks, but no thanks. they ve been all talk and they ve been no action. and now it s even worse. now it s not even talk. reporter: it s a bad time for an impasse. funding for the government runs out next week and there is no agreement on the big issues. defense spending, the legal status of the dreamers, the border wall. do you believe there will be a government shutdown, mr. president? and, would you blame democrats if that happens? if that happens, i would absolutely blame the democrats. jon karl with us live from the white house. president trump said right there, he ll blame the democrats if there is a government shutdown. how likely is it, bottom line? reporter: i ve covered a lot of these spending battles, it seems to me there is a high likelihood this is heading for a government shutdown. and remember, government funding runs out a week from friday. jon, thanks to you. a verdict late today in the trial of the accused mastermind in the attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi, libya. convicted on terrorism charges, but not of murder. now facing up to life in prison. the 2012 attack killed chris stephens and three other americans. the cia director calling the verdict a small measure of justice. next tonight to a piece of crucial video. a woman taking her story to the washington post. what she said about roy moore, it was not true. and what is then heard on the video during the confrontation about it. so, who sent her, and was it an attempt to trap that reporter? tom llamas tonight. reporter: what you re looking at is a dirty trick exposed. on the left, washington post reporter stephanie mccrummen. on the right, a woman who goes by the name jaime phillips. the post says she approached them with an explosive story that senate candidate roy moore got her pregnant when she was a teen and forced her to have an abortion. but the post did their homework. they say the woman s story didn t add up. so they confronted her. i also wanted to let you know, jaime, that this is being recorded and video recorded. reporter: the post broke the news about moore s alleged relationships with teenage girls when he was a local prosecutor. one woman says moore molested her when she only 14. but reporters determined jaime phillips story was not true and that she was out to discredit their reporting. frankly, i want to know who you might be working for now. i work, i still do mortgage work. well, a little bit of an issue there and i just want to ask you to explain it because when we called the company you said you worked for, they said that you didn t work there. reporter: but then the reporter reads from a gofundme page phillips allegedly started to finance her work exposing what she calls the mainstream media s lies and deceit. do you still have an interest in working in the conservative media movement to combat the lies and deceit of the liberal msm? is that still your interest? no, not really. yeah. not at this point. i don t want to get into any more details about my life because it s, like, obvious that you re not believing me. reporter: with apparently no moves left, phillips ends the meeting. tom llamas with us live, he s in washington. roy moore s campaign says they had nothing to do with this? reporter: that s right. the campaign tells me they have no connection to this woman. the washington post says they saw the woman walk into the offices of project veritas. it s a right-wing group that uses deceptive tactics to expose what they call media bias. we reached out to them. they could not comment specifically on this case. tom, thanks. president trump winning the battle over control of the nation s top consumer financial watchdog. put in place after the financial collapse hurt so many americans. a judge ruling the president can put his own director, mick mulvaney, in charge after the previous director resigned. and the deputy director took over. the deputy director had said, the way the law is written, she gets the most until congress approves a successor. today, mulvaney tweeting this photo of himself at work. at the agency he once called a joke. and next to the details about the royal wedding. one of the outtakes now making headlines from the interview 24 hours ago. here s terry moran. reporter: for harry and meghan, the countdown has begun. a may wedding at st. george s chapel at windsor castle, the queen s primary residence. and the royal family will pay for the festivities. the royal relatives weighing in today, harry s sister-in-law kate, the duchess of cambridge. william and i are absolutely thrilled. it s such exciting news. it s a really happy time for any couple, and we wish them all the best, and hope they enjoy this happy moment. reporter: and camilla, prince charles wife. america s loss is our gain. reporter: and the public welcoming their soon-to-be american princess. it s good to see the royal family moving with the times at last. it s time he got married and settled down. reporter: during that interview, they just seemed so in love. the tabloids even turning to a lip reader to see just what the couple is whispering during those off-mike moments. harry and meghan laughing. interrupting each other. she wants me to say something, harry says here. oh, sorry, meghan apologizes, and gives him a look that slays. terry, we re learning markle will become a british citizen. the question, though does that mean she gives up her u.s. citizenship? reporter: there s no law in the uk that would require it. a family spokesman says it s too soon to say. but as an american citizen, she s still subject to u.s. tax law. and the british royal family may just not like that. terry, thanks. there s still much more ahead on world news tonight this tuesday. this evening, the headline about marriage and its effect on your memory. does it help or hurt? and the desperate search for this toddler, vanished from her home without a trace. the fbi now on the case. and the new warning tonight for pet owners and a popular treat for dogs. and take a closer look at this tonight. two men, wearing wingsuits. trying to fly right into the open door of that plane. rs. she s a world-class swimmer who s stared down the best in her sport. but for both of them, the most challenging opponent was. pe blood clots in my lung. it was really scary. a dvt in my leg. i had to learn all i could to help protect myself. my doctor and i choose xarelto® xarelto®. to help keep me protected. xarelto® is a latest-generation blood thinner. .that s proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt and pe blood clots from happening again. in clinical studies, almost 98% of patients on xarelto® did not experience another dvt or pe. here s how xarelto works. xarelto® works differently. warfarin interferes with at least six blood-clotting factors. xarelto® is selective. .targeting just one critical factor, interacting with less of your body s natural blood-clotting function. don t stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor as this may increase risk of blood clots. while taking, you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. it may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. get help right away for unexpected bleeding, unusual bruising, or tingling. if you ve had spinal anesthesia, watch for back pain or any nerve or muscle-related signs or symptoms. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. tell your doctor before all planned medical or dental procedures and before starting xarelto® about any conditions, such as kidney, liver, or bleeding problems. you ve got to learn all you can. .to help protect yourself from dvt and pe blood clots. talk to your doctor about xarelto®. there s more to know. so how old do you want uhh, i was thinking around 70. alright, and before that? 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reporter: police point out the 3-year-old needs orthopedic shoes to walk, and they were left in the home. police are asking to hear from anyone that had contact with the family since sunday. steve, thank you. when we come back, the effect of marriage on your memory. and the police search across state lines. the missing high school student and the soccer coach. and the new warning for dog owners about a very popular treat. we ll be right back. t. mike and jen doyle? yeah. time for medicare, huh. i have no idea how we re going to get through this. follow me. choosing a plan can be super-complicated. but it doesn t have to be. unitedhealthcare can guide you through the confusion, with helpful people, tools and plans. including the only plans with the aarp name. well that wasn t so bad at all. that s how we like it. aarp medicare plans, from unitedhealthcare. coaching means making tough choices. jim! you re in! but when you have high blood pressure and need cold medicine that works fast, the choice is simple. coricidin hbp is the #1 brand that gives powerful cold symptom relief without raising your blood pressure. coricidin hbp. you or joints. something for your heart. but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is the number one selling brain-health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember. the market.redict but through good times and bad. .at t. rowe price. .we ve helped our investors stay confident for over 75 years. call us or your advisor. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. turns out things aren t always take guinea pigs.ey are. they re not pigs at all, nor are they from guinea. or take this haircut. i may look all business, but look out. . but there s a party going on back here. kinda misleading, isn t it? 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innovations magazine for in asia the us for every week and always looking to the future fund d w dot com science and research for asia. learn german with d w any time any place. whether with joe joe and her friends alex stuck to those. with friends all over the world online and interactive. in german to go. learn german for free with d w. meet the germans new and surprising aspects of sleaze and culture in germany. us american keep news us take a look at germany dissing chrissy s at their traditions every day lives and language culture there s a lot of not. so i m ok i m good to. the trick i am going to t.w. dot com meet the germans. inconceivable atrocities took place in the nazi era. three european authors have written very successful crime novels and the third time. so why is this a fitting shondra for writing about this chapter of german history. shapes a hormone war. i wrote a new r. novel about paris during the occupation because the french know very little about those years should. and even less about the collaboration with the nazis but he almost this city itself becomes a protagonist in the novel a bit too much of a moment it was a violent time. in some parts of paris people were partying while in other parts they were starving for no good no he s a quintessential elements of the war fiction one that allowed this self to come on . because of the price because of my mom republic because of the nazis because of the cold war i think has been probably the most courteous changing city most interesting city to write about was the must have you said from the point of view of crime writer talking of anywhere so let s get right . to the bible in berlin the final years but the most exciting time after that because of your apart from the economy everything was flourishing intellectual and cultural life and science all that ended up roughly one nine hundred fifty three it s almost impossible to explain this cultural breakdown which was ultimately to wreak havoc on the entire world the crime novelist the best medium for understanding this period with the three. philip was the first to create a german police inspector who works in the third. is based in berlin. after the nazi takeover and high stock fire the nature of policing changed opposition politicians were rounded up. a man with drafted in to work as exhilarate police. increasingly jews became a target of persecution. in his novels kermit is history and fiction. boss is detective superintendent. a modern police officer who introduced the use of crime scene forensics he was also the inspiration for superintendent in fritz lang s film. only now. your first quote i. started out as a copywriter. in london in the one nine hundred eighty s. first floor office so one moment smile face when. that was the agency i worked in before i went to work. for a subject such. so yeah i worked in there for. four five and i said to him interested in the whole phenomenon of third of the nazi revolution and i wanted to understand it better and once i started to read german philosophy i i sort of started to get much more interested in how it all happened he s a kind of extension of me in a lot of ways he s big he s grumpy he s misanthropic. he s some decent he s temperamentally unemployable. most of your mo he s got a very dark sense of humor as i haven t got a very black sense of humor myself but i find that some. i find that chimes with bell in itself and it i think berliners have a free every dog sense of humor a cruel sense of humor. perhaps it s me growing up in school on that neighbor the scots have a very cruel sense of humor and they re cruel people. and say the cruelty comes out in the human i think really and that s that in a way it s the it s the humor that makes it possible for the writer to get through the book without committing suicide. writer and former journalist lives in cologne. his first crime novel was published in german in two thousand and seven it was the start of an award winning series about cologne native. who also works as a police inspector in berlin. carry on heart is a typical cologne native the church is important for him and carnival season is even more important he s not as catholic as his parents think he should be but he s more catholic than he realizes he s actually sort of agnostic his attitude is typical of his home city of gnostic or maybe there is a god so we should live our lives in a way that we just that we can to have and. that s also how german comedian you re going back or put it in a grade of d. minus is good enough it s not immortal fear me knows i just. cut in contrast to philip kirk begins his work in the weimar republic. he s interested in how inspector hot deals with a transitional from democracy to dictatorship. and his fifth case hardison cologne for the famous monday carnival parade. in one nine hundred thirty three mayor khan had ordered the removal of swastika flags from the streets. the parade motto was con of the like it used to be. but not a flags were everywhere. and racist and anti-semitic themes also featured increasingly on the floats this reached its india in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. that here there will be gas. and by nine hundred forty five colonial a in ruins. but in one thousand nine hundred eighty three cotswold was still in pretty good shape he even had a fling after all it was kind of old time. influence. in those days things weren t as permissive as they are today still at the carnival celebrations guys could find a girl everyone was in a party mood auto so found a woman but unfortunately he was already engaged that was not exactly appropriate this himself wasn t. writer and former historian dominic minority lives in paris. and the first crime novel was published in the one nine hundred ninety five. in two thousand and four she released her darkest novel yet which describes the brutal activities of the french to stop and during the occupation they would like get i don t just get up. there is a was important at the beginning of the war the first thing the germans did was march down the boulevard. if throughout the occupation they paraded here every morning he. said in my novel there s a scene that takes place at the end of the war as. it describes an endless procession of damaged tanks and very young soldiers have it be so. if you want or exhausted many are wounded. and they re on their way home. testing for. this is the cover of the paperback edition photo. of the photo shows paris residence during the occupation they re standing under swastikas and flags and fraternizing with the germans the rough cut of his su. well known you can see a champagne glass in the foreground. the atmosphere is very relaxed it shows ordinary people having a great time for small. minorities chief carrots and is a vice squad inspector who works undercover for the resistance and is in radio contact with london. he frequents the glamorous parisian salons and observes firsthand how easily the germans are corrupting french society. he was he still. he belongs to both the resistance and the police he has to play a street in conspicuous character at all times. he s morse into playing this role he has to appear completely insignificant. but under normal circumstances he wouldn t be like that at all. knowing the condition. in her book menotti also writes about a massacre of young resistance fighters that was carried out by the french gestapo in august nine hundred forty full. we. so that actually happened in what event sense. but i moved it to the board of law and. all novel writing is politics it s a huge luxury to be able to write about you know the worst people in history heidrick and go balls and himmler and people like that they are it s like race like dracula i mean the these are wonderfully villainous or for people to write about that are beyond invention udo novelists could invent a character as we could as hydra. this is general kind of this was one of the main architects of the holocaust and cursed first novel march by and it s going to me titus who sends him to the concentration camp as an undercover agent it s a painful experience for bernie. in later books had evolved into his make the step. to this was fully capable of being a loving father and a brutal police functionary the czechs called him the blond beast. how did it was assassinated in prague in the one nine hundred forty two in his novel prague fertile how trace has bernie s lover checks by brutally tortured in his presence. so that scene came around because i just wanted to remind people of what these who these people were and what they did to people what they were capable of doing to people you know so but equally the method that they used to interrogate that go is what the cia are doing today. so that s why it s there you know the nazis invented waterboarding or probably they didn t but they were certainly very effective at doing it so you know you with all these stories you want there to be a kind of. something that resonates in the modern world. in january nine hundred forty two hailes presided over the vines a conference on the final solution to the jewish question. then it was decided that most of the jews in german occupied europe would be deported to poland and murdered . her has come here to do research movies of the. worst of the worst. and they see as. he s wearing when he done after the war was declared he did a lot of time in the in the lift up he became first of all came a real gun. and left off and went on bombing runs in this new wales. and he really enjoyed it he just enjoyed seeing the back machine gunning . another of his nazi era crime novels focuses on a fictional police conference that was held five months after the band s a conference. is dead by then and s.s. chief chairs the conference which is also held at the vans they ve all. the same time the international crime of the century was being committed by many of the people sitting in the room and it just struck me as she always loved these kind of ironies of history i love the sort of the bits between the lines of history that we don t know about i mean it was trite most people is absurd that they would they would do that but that s exactly what they did so you know here where we re standing now there would have been in july nine hundred two that would have been policeman from all over you are standing here having a cigarette i mean a cup of coffee and then going in there and having lectures from various policeman one of whom in the novel will be pentagon for. so bernie us turn up and make a speech in there so that s really what i was after i m standing in that window thinking that s where he stands that s where the speech occurs and then they come up here and they have a cup of coffee he s introduced to somebody who will be pivotal in the rest of the story who s a swiss policeman. in one nine hundred forty the nazis occupied paris. minorities main character is the head of the french kostopoulos pierre bunny a highly decorated police officer and he controls all of paris together with former gangster all the love for. both the collaborators and criminals those who oppose them fall out of windows will simply vanish for ever he ll need. to i guess that before we re here at ninety three rule laurie stone you know because this was an infamous address during the occupation that it was the headquarters of the french to stop oh yes the people that you re giving here. in the lobby of wooden is building where bonnie and la phone had their offices was called lock erlang or the cockpit. you. see i see this building witnessed many dreadful crimes who you see many people were tortured here has a book now. the french gestapo was a key element of the collaboration structure and that they could be and i think they don t mean you because. you see only this is this you know. this is the plus does it has uni just a few steps away. day the frame i just awful prison was located here at number three. on his nerves were kept here between interrogations. before they were turned over to the germans i ve owned and even it s at the top of a mess. only about twenty meters away from the gestapo prison at number eleven is the otel don t know why you during the war it housed one of the liveliest literary and artistic cellphones in paris. he there were two big cell phones one was run by florence the other by madame don t know why you. know i gave my mom was that the buildings are close together was every time i come here i m struck by the contrast and it reminds me that people must have known what was happening here again your plea they could not have ignored it and this is where it all took place memo. this year the extravagant parties and their that doc torture and death. memo and the buildings were right next to each other. the french upper class completely accepted the s.s. and they were mocked they don t mean the s.s. men were more popular because their uniforms were much more attractive uniform a black is a lot more becoming than field gray. a pretty young because. the chief collaborators came to an inglorious and the germans abandoned them when they pulled out of paris. when la phone was taken prisoner after the liberation he said i spent. four years surrounded by orchids tell you send bentleys it was worth it for a phone was the rest of the day paris was liberated and was executed immediately. now his thoughts are existence means admitting that terrible things happened. if you don t talk about them you allow them to happen again. comments of. the room was full of people muttering and clouds of cigarette smoke max hansen s voice created from the photographs because. then comes a quote from hanson books and yet. here give. me a. really became an ultra light of inishmaan how can i continue my daily routine when i realize that everything around me is jane ging radically throws up the shaft a lot since i got to be careful there s no more rule of law for them and it s easy to fall into the clutches of a wild pack of essay wolves that bush didn t need money would never stick his neck out like phillip because benny going to no way as i m going to know what he said totally different kind of character you are going to sometimes i wonder how good to could have survived back then rod might have a big mouth in charlie s present but never around anyone from the s.s. o.s.a. it as if we had was a can all go part of i used to carefully thought out everything as you should do with crime stories the plot is really important but lots of ideas come to you while you re writing and that s great it s surprising how many of these ideas you can use and how things work out differently than i d imagined and that s not so bad because if i can surprise myself hopefully i can surprise my readers as well at least that s what i m striving to achieve just for you get a mission. this is what gave you my heart will look like any new graphic novel. the comic also in this is how the artist imagine same as psycho. ward and his galileo in front of his headquarters on berlin s alexanderplatz. and that s barely house. well you can see the stop lights and power lines and of course a cigarette you better go you ll never leave home without you want me to. with all novels. the especially novels written in the first person i vi. the eye makes it more personal it s like you yourself are meeting goebbels you re self or having to shake his hand and have a meeting at a coffee and a cigarette with gerbils and you yourself are having to be careful about what you say so hopefully the choices that conversation brings you to. brings bernie to the same choices that the reader would have which is you know how do i say how do i if this person what they want but without compromising my moral my my true moral in a self how do i do that how do i not do everything he wants without ending up dead and so you know these are the things that interest me as a as a writer how to be how to walk that tightrope. goebbels was famously. i want to. seem to have had an affair with many actresses. principally one called leader my robot but he got a bit of a reputation as a lady. and it wasn t just the sort of rest of the third reich that made jokes about sexual. appetites it was it was pretty much so. and of course being in control of germany s film industry which was based here was like sort of. putting this you know. a fact kid in charge of this week s show really wasn t perhaps the best thing that could have. could have happened. and cast early crime novel a quiet flame danny boldly climbs into the flask of yours if god is in the bathroom he leaves behind a most unpleasant calling card. i was asked myself what i would do you know and i guess that s what i would have done a fight but i found myself in goebbels his bathroom you know i did yeah use toilet and then flush it and. i got it as i think i ve probably told you earlier i ve got a sort of naturally dark sense of humor. is what makes writing about nazi germany from a detective point of view so interesting because nobody is what they seem to be just from a point of view and from a point of view of survival that quite often the good the good guys aren t what they seem to be because they have to pretend not to be good guys it s like bernie as old as i mean i ve always been a big fan of his era the one nine hundred twenty s. and thirty s the berlin of the new york jets tipitina s mint and american gangsters from the twenty s and thirty s. and for her that s once again i say got front of emotion fast in the end of it by this i ve always found them fascinating he does but as i got the idea of combining the two after watching two films with my favorites are standard wished in. road one was road to perdition with tom hanks which came out around ten years ago. and you did enough to me for what i was the other was fritz lang s m. on the shoulder honest i thought and it takes place in one thousand nine hundred eighty one the same year that the film was made on. the road to perdition also takes place in one thousand thirty one but was shocked about seventy years later when a lot i could do it would have. been right there that s right. all of them. how did he take. you back to the world featured in road to perdition and the world of one nine hundred thirty s. berlin it can also contemporaneous so why don t merge them and that s how i got the idea for getting a moderately. depleted suspect definitions for the political aspect germany s political development is now the most important thing for me that he asked us so the idea to follow the course of this development was the second step and. then i had the idea to create a series that goes beyond ninety thirty three instead of having these gangs of stories take place before nine hundred thirty three in a more or less normal society i think the mine shaft i wanted to use the crime novel to show how society changes us if you use it. for that for me much to anybody in no madhu crime novels usually try to restore things to the status quo especially evil should be punished and locked away and carry on does this the best he can he says but this is ultimately futile in the third reich it s the criminals he s hunting up both the murderous and his superiors you know and he s in a rather bizarre situation and this is what i wanted to trade in chicken with. rick. i have vivid memories of the third man it s wonderful i always try to imagine those scenes when i write. sometimes i imagine scenes in black and white. film noir has had an enormous influence on me. that s. what the book now. also addresses the fact that many french artists including john cook told admired the german counterparts people like hitler s favorite sculptor. doorway. and was a major collaborator he organized the big breaker exhibition in paris in one thousand nine hundred two and wrote an introduction for it. who was fascinated with erotica visited the exhibition. he said it s a good thing statues don t have erections otherwise there d be no room to move around. according shasta swapan the. publisher is based in new york. when his books come out in the u.s. he travels around the country to promote them this time because wife writer jane time has come along americans love his blend of nazi horror and hard boiled detective fiction. there s only one thing worse than being an american book tour and that s not being asked to do with america too. because it s like it s it s. there s a lot of adrenaline and it s a performance. in new york he makes an appearance at a small but well stocked bookstore that specializes in crime novels the mysterious bookshop. unlike his colleagues doesn t care much for standard readings he prefers to talk about his latest books. over the years i ve learned a lot awful lot about this period and you know you read about one concentration camp or another or the holocaust and i became aware of the existence of this place in the former yugoslavia which was called just the end of the just end of it wasn t just the death count it was an murder and cruelty and killing cap. and that the cruelties that were practice there were unspeakable i m not going to give into details but they put this way it was so bad that your original s.s. detachment who d been sent. back to berlin and said look can we leave this place it was so bad even the s.s. didn t want to be there bags how bad it was. there s a kind of a train parked in this field it was the death train rather like the sort of train that arrived auschwitz men women and children were taken off this train and they were they went on this little ferry across a river and on this island there were all these people waiting to murder them with axes and. and beheading is become a kind of a phenomenon that we ve become we ve become very familiar with in in the newspapers of late. these yugoslavian roman catholic priests who were principally responsible for getting. nazi war criminals out. there was nobody worse than these people i think they probably killed. between eighty and one hundred thousand people on this little island roman catholic priests anyway that was the other thing why i want to write about the yugoslavs and the croats because it s commonly. assumed that it was the germans. who. killed people and we forget the role played by some of the other races in europe like like the crow and so. there have been in auschwitz because i mean there s no scene in there s not really a scene in the book which is set out if there had been i would have got not yet well no i don t think there will be actually because i feel i would feel probably uncomfortable writing about it because i feel that. if it was something that was so awful i think you know to try and describe it i don t think unless you ve been there you kind of earned the right probably to write about it if you ve been there but i think you haven t really read the right to write about it if you hadn t been there. and i had to sort it was difficult because when i wrote from zagreb i had to go to this place this awful concentration camp. in bosnia called years and verge and. i felt i had to get permission from the people who had died there so i sort of stood in the sounds melodramatic but that s how it felt your stood in the cattle the the wagons had transported the people on the train. the train is there so you can actually stand in these cattle cars and feel what it must to be like so i felt i had to sort of you know pray almost to the people and say look if i m right about this i promise i will not you know it s trivialize this and i promise i will be your. chart. minute ok. professor now four years oh i see you may want to see your weather front camera. now you ve been to see what you re about the qualities not thank you. everything. is. ok thank you so much. for. paris august nine hundred forty four the city s new german commander general details from cultists has earned his respect by leveling service to poll with the so-called col c. took on. hitler demanded that paris suffer the same fate. but fun call to ignore what his order is by then he had decided that hitler was insane. some reports say that hitler phoned the general in a rage and screamed is paris burning. not he writes about the battles between resistance fighters and german troops in the final days of the occupation. hundreds were killed in the fighting. one called it surrendered his troops on august twenty fifth. later that day general shanda gold arrived in paris as the leader of the provisional government of the french republic. the german up. of the french capital . residents celebrated. they also started punishing alleged collaborators french women who had fashioned with german soldiers who publicly humiliated this was the beginning of a partial rewriting of the history of the war but the nazi refuses to accept this interpretation. it s scapegoat politics so many things happened it s time to come clean. in any case war has always been waged on the bodies of women. when you conquer a country you rape the women. in order to liberate the country you shave the heads of women. may not have slept with germans. such uncivilized things didn t happen in the upper echelons. so. it was a way to deal with the horror of the war. and to create a morally superior version of the past the. among. the so. crime novels because they represent my dark view of the world the war and the period of collaboration are perfectly suited for crime novels. that. there s more the pressure increase to bit by bit more success means more pressure and you grow into it and box it up to the office and i m glad that my first novel babylon berlin wasn t immediately a huge success i m going to have otherwise i would have had to keep chasing that success and even under bush going to cross did that his whole life because of the tin drum. it was kind of tragic luckily i didn t suffer the same fate though i ll never win a nobel prize. this is. the one of the earliest forms of writing ever this is about five thousand years b.c. . and these little marks on it were written by. an architect and these things used to they used to put them in little holes in the bill in the building that they d made and it was a description of who the architect was and it was like a little autobiography or a little. like a little brass plaque on the wall. that s right. it you know i think it s good to have a really early writing in front of you when when you re doing this because it just reminds you that really. it s the only thing if you that will maybe lost. so much money and. i m going out. my character meeting me would be a pretty horrific experience he he would have had a good life for me this is the ambivalent relationship writers have with their characters because they know in their bones inside themselves they know their character would hate them. and mine would certainly hate me. just as if i was at a time like you ask yourself what would i have done back then and but you don t have an answer with your life you can come close to announce that through the novel certainly through the situations that your characters get themselves into through their actions and development and we can all. be untrue but you ll probably never find an onside and. this is a maybe so not necessary. but it s good if some readers think about it his own and only as of and and ask themselves the same questions that we do you know i mean what would i have done back then i said it and i was going to. leave the best way to understand writers is through their books this meeting was very nice but the book reveals all that soon evil. . is his government ready to address the concerns voiced by brussels will continue rejecting them out of the. midst of d.w. . charged up and ready to hit the road with an e-card across europe. up. from italy all the way to norway. with 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when i looked at the e-mail, i just couldn t even believe it. but after so many tears, so many years, and so many turns in her story i was like whoa. there are still more stunning twists to be revealed. it s amazing. it s the best gift ever. lost and found. hello. welcome to dateline extra. a young girl was abducted at the age of four and raised by her kidnapper. for the next four decades she searched for her family, her name, and herself. her story has an extraordinary ending and as it turns out, that ending was just the beginning. here is keith morrison. our story begins with this mother of a teenage daughter. a woman who had spent most of her life trying to figure out was absent mostly. long stretches away, punk wa. we would go see him because he was coming in from the navy, and so it was an exciting moment, and she would get us all dressed up, and it was the anticipation of going to the shipyard and having a lot of attention. i think as a child. the memories are how she survived it all, all the trouble. holding my mom s hand. having fun with my mom. being in the moment of joy. i don t have bad memories. yes, those. the bad memories. like the day everything good went away. it was 1973. though she and her happy little childhood bubble had no idea what year it was. she knows she was not yet five, that it was autumn, that someone came to the door with a plan. i remember a woman coming over and knocking on the door. her name was shirley. she was a friend of her mother s she said. she said renee, a little girl with her was six. this is renee now. that room is stuck in her memory too. her name was gorgeous. a nice size room for a little kid. she had a canopy bed. she had tons of dresses. toys galore. and you had none of that? no. i was like wow, this is nice. an alien world to renee. the most wonderful thing she d seen. while the little girls played in the living room, shirley was talking and then she called renee. when it was time to leave, i didn t want to go. i said can we stay longer? no, but your new friend is coming with us. i m like okay. so she came and that s how everything started. so it did. it was to be an overnight, the girls were told, a little fun. they d stay with shirley in her age. when lost and found continues. what i got s full stock welcome back to date line extra. a four-year-old girl is kidnapped from her home, taken from the only life she knew by a woman who told her she d be going on a sleepover with a play mate for one night. that one night turned into a terrifying odyssey that wouldn t end for many, many nights to come. here again is keith morrison. the story you ll hear now lives in the vivid so real you could touch them memories of two frightened girls. it began in a down market motel whose l.a. neighborhood was not child friendly. it was to be a one night sleep over with a new friend renee. instead the adult who brought her here, a woman named shirley didn t take her home again. instead she packed belongings, put the girls in her car and hit the road. where did they go? did she threaten that? yeah. many times we d do something wrong and she would say you stop doing that or i m going to send you off to jerry s life. so they lived a life of packing up and fleeing state to state searching for the cheapest place to stay and skip out of. hunger constant. medical care nonexistent. when money ran out, as it often did, shirley drove to the nearest truck stop. the girls would bed down in the car and watch shirley sneak off to do, well, they didn t know. and alone and frightened, they held onto each other and watched the shadows of strange men pass by their car. until the night when terrified and unable to sleep, renee followed shirley. she s taking a long time. and i m getting scared because i m thinking she left or she s died or something. so i go into where they work on the cars, and she s on the side over here, and he s on top of her. and i didn t know what was going on. i got scared, and then she seen me, and she yelled at me and said get out of here. go. at least then they had a bit of money. but always pepper was afraid. afraid to ask for help. afraid to ask why she d been taken. afraid of shirley s threats. she would scare us to believe that we were in a better place. she was doing something good for us. did you ever understand why she wouldn t take you back home? her personality was very up and down. very angry and so if i asked questions, she would say stuff like if you want to find your mom, she s on the streets shooting heroin and a prostitute. tirades were frequent, neglect part of life. verbal and physical abuse a regular occurrence. she would whip us with a belt, slap us, verbally cuss at us. verbally abuse us. and threaten to send you away? right. i just took the belt. because it just if you take it, this is hard to explain, but if you just take it, it she gets out of the rage faster, so to speak. they went to school when they could. made very few friends and lost the ones they did make. struggled to be ordinary kids and then normal teenagers. all i wanted to be is loved. that s it. and i never got any kind of love that i wanted. instead, they were trapped, truck stop no mads in the care of a woman it seemed she had kidnapped both of them. they drifted one dump to another across any number of state lines for years. and then sometime in the early 80s, they settled down here. shirley pulled up to this motel in los angeles county and took a job at the cleaning woman in exchange for a free room. and if it wasn t much, at least it gave them some measure of stability, and they signed up at a local school. junior high for pepper, high school for renee. much to shirley s disapproval. shirley would tell us girls don t go to school. they get married. why do you want to go to school? i didn t like being late to school. i didn t like being absent all the time. so they got themselves up every morning and went to school and kept going. and then pepper was 12, eight of those years with shirley when she saw her chance to escape and seized it. she made herself useful as a babysitter for the couple next time in room 109. and when the family moved out of the motel, pepper went with them. but it didn t last long. pepper s new household caught in its own spiral of alcoholism and dysfunction was as troubled and messy as her own life was. she swallowed her pride and moved back to room 110 colonial motel, even though by then, says pepper, shirley didn t seem to care much what she did. i remember when i was trying to plot my escape before it went into action, i was in my mind going, i m going to show her. she ll care. i remember thinking that. but she didn t care. she didn t come to get me. still, having tasted freedom once, pepper was determined to get away from her kidnapper for good. a second time she took a chance, moved after the family and a second time had to return. and then finally by the time she turned 16, pepper left for good. but that meant she left renee behind too. renee who so needed pepper and was alone now with shirley. she was my best friend growing up. that was my best friend. you know? we did everything together. we fight like sisters. we did everything together. renee was feeling abandoned. i told her don t go. stay here. i need you. you re my sister. so she went. she did her thing, and i was upset, and i was sad. by 1986 and on her own now, pepper had given hope she d ever find her real parents, but she had an immediate problem, the trouble that comes with having no real name, no i.d., no birth certificate. she was under rhonda smith at shirley s urging at school. she had no way to prove her legal name, and without some cooperation from shirley, her search for such documents seemed hopeless. and then how did you find out she was sick? she turned completely yellow when they diagnosed her with pancreatic cancer. with shirley on her death bed, shirley tried to act like a dutiful daughter. tried to make her comfortable, visited her regularly, but there was another important reason to see her, maybe the most important reason. one last opportunity to find out who she was. as she was dying, did you try to find maybe she d make a death bed confession and say i did take you, and here are your parent s names and how to find them. any of that happen? did you ask? oh, yeah, and shirley had a response for the girl she renamed pepper. the question was, what could she do with that answer? coming up, if jesus christ duggar could be found at 18 years, certainly there must be hope for pepper. it triggered a lot of my own personal memories and how come i didn t get found? and i was still missing? but would she be missing much longer? when lost and found continues. i saw the change in rich when we moved into the new house. but having his parents over was enlightening. you don t like my lasagna? no, it s good. -hmm. -oh. huh. 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( ) any 16-year-old wants to be free. i want to go work and be free from all this. i have a plan. i asked her for, i need my birth certifica certificate. and she told me they changed the laws. you can t get your driver s license until you re 18 years old. yeah. and i m supposed to believe this. as i sit in a classroom where i have friend getting permits. of course. she took the lies with her. she was not going to tell. what about the birth certificate? couldn t get anything out of her. the lies stayed with her. shirley knew the answers, of course. knew the whole bizarre story, but she looked pepper in the eye through her obvious pain, and told her nothing. she left the lies behind and took the truth to her grave on july 29th, 1986, at the age of 63. she was buried here, this cemetery in an unmarked grave. renee now 19, got on with life, moved in with her boyfriend. soon pepper showed up at their apartment homeless and nowhere else to turn to. and everywhere pepper went from then on, shirley s poison gift followed because of that woman and what she did, pepper was officially at least a nonperson. so it took a little while for determination to come back. she was in her mid 20s, a single mother by then. if only she could find her birth certificate, that could lead her to her parents. anyway, she needed documents to live. she needed a passport. so she contacted state offices. their departments of vital records with perhaps predictable results. tell me what it feels like when you know you have to go to an official and ask for something that you really, really, really need, and you kind of know you think how it s going to go? i get emotional usually. i usually cry. it was really i would it just brings me to a sad place. you d be sitting across the desk from somebody trying? absolutely. and they couldn t do anything for you? no. you need this document. this is what you need to provide. sorry. i have no way to get this document because i don t know my parent s name. i don t know my real name. pepper. and once again, pepper felt perhaps understandably like giving up. but by then she was living with her daughter in south lake tahoe working as a waitress and what do you know, hometown girl jay see duagaard was found. the community was just buzzing all over the place with joy. and i was happy for her. but it triggered a lot of my own personal memories and how come i didn t get found? and i felt so missing. so once again, charged up with determination, she launched a fresh attempt. turns out there s such a thing as adult adoption. find someone to adopt her and even if she couldn t find her parents, at least she could get an official identity and birth certificate and a passport. a friend offered to adopt her. they applied and waited and something amazing happened. someone in that great california bureaucracy did research. talked to pepper, asked her questions, hauled out records not readily available online. all she could offer for the names bob and bobbie and the date of birth, and somehow buried among the files in the hundreds of millions, a match, and there it was, came in the mail after all these years, a copy of her actual birth certificate. the key to unlock her past, though she had no idea then looking at that birth certificate that the appropriate question should have been this. was this her real past? coming up. a journey ending? i was like whoa. or was it just beginning? when lost and found continues. when heartburn hits, fight back fast with tums smoothies. it starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue. and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. tum -tum -tum -tum smoothies! only from tums extra. i m gregg melvin. the woman known as pepper finally has a piece of paper in her hand. the paper she s waited for most of her life to find. her birth certificate, but where would that piece of paper lead? here again is keith morrison. a 37 years she d been searching for her parents, her life, her name. just as she d given up ever finding the answer, here it was. a copy of her birth certificate with her real name in black and white. rhonda patricia christy, and there were the names of her parents, too, robert and barbara christy. this is it. i was like whoa. they were my parents. that bobbie and bob. they were my parents. with their names and social security numbers, rhonda and her friends tracked down a phone number in ohio. she dialled the number. a man answered. it was june 5th, 2010. i said are you robert t christy. he said yes. i said are you married to a barbara blackwelder or were you? he said yes. and then i said, i think i m rhonda christy or do you know rhonda patricia christy. and then there was a long pause. this is who she was talking to. his name is bob christy. i almost dropped the phone. she knew i d hesitated, and she said this is your daughter, rhonda. and there was something that clicked in my mind that i the voice rang a bell. and he called to my mom, barbara, to pick up the phone. he said rhonda s on the phone. she picked up the phone and the first words out of her mouth was shirley stole you. the most emotions i think i ve ever had in my entire life, ever. the memories were true, or so it seemed. she got on a plane for ohio. they were all, of course, 37 years older, and in a way, strangers now. but here they were, all the images she d clung to in fantasy, dreamed about for those 37 long years. and there you are in your bath. all those rolls, too. you was a chubby little baby. and happy. and look at you. just learning to walk. and smiling the whole way. you had a good life, honey. i know. so it was happy and sad. comforting. but also deeply strange because sitting on this touch, pepper heard some stunning revelations. such as these were not her birth parents. she had been adopted. and the arrangement was mysterious. and now it was barbara s turn to tell a story. shirley had been her friend, she said, had told her about a woman working in the sex trade who didn t want her babies, and one day she showed up with a baby she called rhonda patricia smith. barbara could see it was a little iffy, but she wanted that baby so badly, and so she said she ignored the red flags. nope. didn t care. didn t really care. she was going to see to it, she said, that rhonda was loved and cared for by the best parents she could ever possibly have. bob and barbara legally adopted their little princess four years later in the fall of 1973. and it was shortly after that, said barbara, when shirley and renee showed up at her door. and the kids played together, and we visited together, and she asked if rhonda could come spend the night with renee, and took me a while to get an answer to that. i really had to think about that hard. i m one of these tender hearted people, and i said i want her to know her sister. sister? why, yes, barbara told rhonda she and renee were half sisters, daughters of the name mother, the woman who worked the streets. barbara said by then she didn t trust shirley with rhonda, but i want rhonda to know her sister. i wanted her to have family and stuff, and i asked bob, and he said no, she couldn t at first, and then he relented, let her go. and next morning we went to get her, and they were gone. and they didn t come back. bob and barbara called the police right away, of course. but here s what they said they were told. the police could do nothing for them since they d allowed rhonda to leave with shirley. they were on their own, so desperate, they said, they started their own search. discovered shirley had taken the girl to a relative s house several states away. when they got there, it was too late. all that remained sitting on the porch were the little red shoes she wore on the day she was kidnapped. it was hopeless. they returned to their childless home. nothing left but the photographs of the little girl who stopped growing up for them at four and now out of the blue, that phone call. and here she was. i m good. it is definitely a gift. we got a daughter and we got a granddaughter. just on time, it turns out. barbara had terminal cancer. she would die a year later. still, back then, they celebrated. renee joined them for rhonda s birthday and the christy s 38th wedding anniversary, an amazing reunion. of course, dateline was happy to broadcast it all around the country on march 25th, 2011,, no idea that something quite unbelievable would happen. because one of the people who tuned in that night was a woman named jerry, and oh, what a story she had to tell. coming up, it was a story two sisters had waited a very long time to hear. 99.99% probability. that s confirmed. when lost and found continues. what i got s full stock of thoughts and dreams that scatter you pull them all together and how, i can t explain oh yeah, well well well youuuu you make my dreams come true well, well, well youuuu topped steak & twisted potatoes at applebee s. now that s eatin good in the neighborhood. welcome back to dateline extra. i m gregg melvin. returning to our story now, here again, keith morrison. when we first told you the story about pepper smith and her lifelong journey to find her family, her identity, it was a friday night in march, 2011. and the following monday morning my office received a call, and then i received an e-mail. attorney gloria alreld found herself looking at a remarkable message. there it was, the ping of a message on her blackberry. when i looked at the e-mail, i just couldn t even believe it. i looked at it about three times. am i really seeing this? it was a woman claiming to be the buy logical mother of both pepper and renee. claiming to be the woman who according to shirley and barra, was a child abandoning prostitute, probably dead. could this woman really be their mother? hardly a claim she could take on simple faith. i asked her to come in to see me the very next day, which she was very anxious and happy to do. i asked her to bring whatever evidence she had. and in that meeting the woman presented her evidence. she brought some photos that she had of pepper and renee when they were very little. she said she was a waitress when the girls were little, but a photo of that. and a picture of shirley and also a photo of a man she said was the girl s father. long since dead. she said her name was jerry. i asked her immediately, jerry, would you be willing to do a dna test? she said i ll take the dna test, but these are my children. i know it. she put the dna test on the fast track and waited. within a week called pepper and renee to her office to hear in person the results of the test. 99.99% probability. that s it. yes. test confirmed. i can t believe this is actually happening. i really can t right now. how soon could they meet jerry and what s she like? how did she know shirley? we arranged a reunion for the next day. jerry arrived first and told us how she saw her long lost girls on our program. i saw the picture of shirley and went crazy. i was hysterical, because i knew that s who she was. and then when i saw the girls, i knew they were mine. after all those years? 27 years. there they are. what did that feel like? it felt great. i had hoped i could find my children before i died because i m getting old and it was like a miracle. jerry s story? shirley to took the girls was her friend turned roommate, turned babysitter. she said i ll babysit for you. you know, i ll take care of her while you work. i said well, that s great, because i really thought i was blessed. first it was renee she looked after, then renee and pepper, and then two years later their little brother raymond leonard smith junior. wait. brother? it wasn t just the two girls. there was a younger brother, the girls never knew they had. the father wasn t around very much. jerry supported them all with what she could make as a waitress, and shirley made a change, a positive one, it seemed financially. she got this job supposedly at the motel managing which was further more, i worked, so i arranged with her to watch the kids while i worked. it was a god send, really, since jerry had to be hospitalized for weeks after raymond was born. and then get back to work and find a new home to take the kids to. i come out there on my days off and stay with the kids and spend some time with them. and so then i called her and told her i was coming to get the kids, and the next day i went out there, and gone. not a sign of them. no kids. no shirley. frantic, she went to the police. what did you tell them? your children had been kidnapped? yep. they took the report and that s the last i heard. i went down there two or three times. they told me the same thing. they hadn t found anything. jerry said she didn t know who else to talk to. she looked on her own and found year after year nothing. had no idea she said that shirley had left pepper with barbara. that barbara persuaded a court that pepper had been abab donned and thus could be adopted or that shirley stole her back again. and then there they were, telling their story on dateline, telling how shirley and barbara had described her. yes, i heard what they said about me. i was not a streetwalker. i was a waitress all my life. they also said you didn t really want your children. you were happy to abandon them? i never abandoned my children, never. ever. i would never, ever do that. and she wasn t a drug addict either, she said. she hasn t had a smooth or easy life, and for much of it she s missed her children and blamed herself for what happened. trusting shirley? yes. and for not having those kids under your wing all the time? that s right. tell me about that? because to me i feel like it was my fault because i put them in the hands of this monster. we re in a hotel room in los angeles. jerry is eager, anxious, terrified. visibly shaking. and then they come around the corner. their first meeting of 27 years. it s been a lifetime we ve missed. oh, my god. i feel like i m dreaming still. i can t get it yet. i can t either. i just want to hug. can i just stare at you for a minute. yes, you can do anything. i don t have a memory. i m sad because i was there with you guys. you re my mom. yes, you re my babies. you re my babies. it s been 37 years. it s sad. and just about here as they cling and cry, something rather magical happens. the center of gravity shifts. what happened? what happened? it s renee who wants the answers now. i want to know what happened. you will know. you will know. i promise you. you were illegally adopted. me? but what happened to me? she was adopted but what happened to me? i thought i would never find you ever. i thought i would never find you either. i searched and i searched and searched. i had no money for an attorney. i didn t know where to go. when i turned dateline on and saw you girls come on, honey. [ sobbing ] it s okay. i thought you didn t care about me. no, i loved you, both of you. i could never not love you. i was so mad at you. i m sure you were. i was so mad at you. i didn t know. i thought you gave me away. no. they spend hours together here talking about their pasts, their likes and dislikes, their amazing similarities. we gave them a few weeks to get to know each other, and sat down again with pepper and renee. so there it is. you have your mother. but what now? will you have a relationship with her? going to move her in with me. move into your house? yes. yes. once she gets all her affairs into in order, we re going to move her in. why? because i want her. my husband wants her too. there. so i want to have a relationship with my mom. like i was telling you earlier, i want to go shopping. i want to have lunch. i want to go buy stuff. i want to have christmas, thanksgiving, her there with me. and pepper? well, for one thing, pepper has adopted her real birth name, the one her parents gave her before it was lost in the abductions and adoption. it s ronique. roniqi smith. i feel very content the way everything has taken place. finding my mom, the identity, my real identity, my biological father. seeing a picture of him. all these exciting things going on. but i think it s not over yet. i don t feel the journey s quite over yet. it s just starting. this part of it is just starting. so it is. because of course one of them is still missing. right. yes. our brother raymond is still missing. we know he s out there somewhere. so he is. but not for long. let out your inner child at the lexus december to remember sales event. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. the instant it touches your tongue. and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. tum -tum -tum -tum smoothies! only from tums jehri gave us a copy of his birth certificate. he d be just about 40 now. and their chances of finding him seemed sfrankly slim. he called 40-year-old ray smiths all over the country. ray smith in colorado, ray smith in maryland, in new jersey, in kansas. but did he go by the name ray smith? and then, a call back. it was the ray smith from colorado. they had the right name, right age, place of birth, had grown up without knowing any blood relatives. all this ray smith knew was his mother s name. according to his birth certificate was jerry. he was starting to sound a lot leek our ray. we asked if he d submit to a dna test. he agreed. and there was no doubt. we d found him. we brought ray and his fiance to a los angeles hotel and showed him the story of his sisters. in a way his story too. i thought that the story itself was sad. it sounded like they had a rough life. and it was really similar to mine. so it was. and it began the sam way, too, when sheryly took him from jehri. except ray was turned over to a woman named anna lee brown, who named him jimmy brown. the only name he knew growing up. she had told me that she had adopted me. but i was also shipped around a lot from home to home because she had a lot of health problems from what i was told. he was neglected and often abused, bounced around for years, until anna brown shipped him off to a colorado couple when he was 14. and that s when he found his birth certificate. started calling himself ray smith, and began puzzling over the apparently unanswerable questions of his life. why did ann name me jim brown if my name was really ray? how come i never knew about jehri? things like that. then i wondered, you know, was i kidnapped? no answers from anna brown, who died soon after that. and as for life in colorado, by the time he was 16 things were getting a little rough. maybe because of my past, i wasn t a real easy kid. so i was put into foster care. and then? he graduated from high school. he got a job, moved in with some friends, and started his own rock band. this youtube video shows him singing lead. leave it alone and for all he s wondered about his past, he d come to believe he d go to his grave without ever meeting a blood relative. until now. wow. they re actually in the same building i m in right now. that s amazing to me. and here they were. oh, my baby. hi, mom. oh. oh, it s been forever. it s great to see you. meeting family for the first time. you guys kind of look like me. after so many years. so this is my first time meeting my blood. it s great. so great. and this is how pepper s desperate search for a warm memory of a lost childhood ended. you look like our dad. you re great. far bigger than she imagined. far better. good to see you. oh, it s good to see you too. the family that was stolen found. it s amazinamazing. it s the best gift ever. they sat here for hours, shared their photos, got to know each other, and made plans.