intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance assets so we have a better picture of what is taking place inside of iraq. this will give us a greater understanding what isil is located, what it is doing, how we may better encounter this threat. third the united states will continue to increase our support to iraqi security forces. i we are prepared to create joint operation centers in baghdad and northern iraq to share intelligence and coordinate planning to confront the terrorist threat of isil. to our new counterterrorism fund, we will work with congress to provide additional equipment and had adviser in iraq and are prepare order send a small number of military adviser, up to 300, to assess how we can best train and advise and support iraqi security forces going forward. american forces will not be returning to combat in iraq. but we will help iraqis as they take the fight to terrorists who threaten the iraqi people the region, and american interests as well. fourth, raesent days we positioned additional u.s. military assets in the region. because of our increased intelligence resources we are developing more information about the potential targets associated with isil. going forward, we will be prepared to take targeted and precise military action if we determine the situation on the ground requires it. the backdrop to the president speaking there today is this deadly surge as we have been reporting on cnn by these isis militants. sunni, jihadists, honing in on the capital city of baghdad. as we get reports, thousands of civilians are homeless, fossed into makeshift refugee camps. joining me now, cnn s jim acosta, senior white house correspondent. jim, we will get to your question of the president in just a moment. to be crystal clear, we are talking up to 300 military adviser. the president said advising iraqi iraqis. how exactly? it just so happens the administration officials are holding a background conference where they are lay thing out. i can give you some brand-new information on this. these officials on this conference call are saying that at first, they are going to be sending in several small teams of adviser about a dozen each to establish what they are calling these joint operation centers with iraqi forces. your heard the president mention joint operation centers during his remarks in the briefing room. at this stage, what they are going in to do is really advising and consulting with the iraqis. this is not a combat role. this is sort of, you know, getting a lay of the land, surveying the landscape militarily as to what the iraqis are up against with respect to those isis forces. we are at the preliminary zwraj of this. one very interesting point that came up on the conference call, brooke. in a is you heard the president talk about the possibility of military strikes. you mentioned that a few moments ago. senior administration officials said that air strikes, quote, discreet and targeted are still a possibility. once had have the information but these officials said that they are not at the stage right now where they are preparing for those air strikes. so it does not sound like any kind of air strike is imminent at this point. it sounds like they want on go in right now and send the advisors in and get that lay of the land and then proceed from there. the other thing that s not been done, the u.s. has not decided to have teams on the ground in iraq to call in air strikes. so that s something that has also been talked about, what could the adviser go in and sort of pick it out targets for warplanes flying over. they are saying that s not a decision that has been made at this point. one other thing. we want to point out. this question has been asked a lot. wolf blitzer asked this question. do these adviser coming in have the legal protection? that goes back to that agreement that the president said he couldn t get from maliki at tend of 2011. that s why he did not leave a residual force behind. he said because maliki would not give the legal protection to u.s. forces saying that on the ground in iraq, the senior administration officials saying these adviser going in, they are confident, have the legal protection from the iraqi government because after all they have been invited in by the iraqis. let s get to your question. really the followup to your question. specifically to the president saying we pulled out and in 2011, you basically asked him, if he regrets not leaving any u.s. military presence on the ground. what was his response? you know, i think what he did was really lay this out at the feet of iraqi prime minister al maliki. squarely at the feet saying that it was maliki who said he who would not give the legal protection the u.s. forces that would be necessary in the minds of this white house and this president to have forces stay beyond 2011. here is what the president had to say? do you left you left a residual force in iraq ra, any regrets? that was a decision made by the iraqi government. we offer a dash modest residual force to help continue to train and advise iraqi security forces. we had a core requirement which we require in any situation where we have u.s. troops overseas and that is that they are provided immunity at the since they are being invited by the sovereign government there. so that if, for example, they end up acting in self-defense, if they are attacked and find themselves in a tough situation, that they are not somehow called before a foreign court. that s a core requirement that we have for u.s. troop presence anywhere. the iraqi government and prime minister maliki declined to provide us that immune. but we can report, brooke, that at this stage, according to senior administration officials, they feel like they now have that legal protection to send in these special adviser, military adviser, that are going in. so, you know, how that plays out from here. jim acosta, thanks so much. the detail from the conference call under way. we now have a guest that can help us understand what these u.s. adviser, up to 300 of them, could find themselves facing in iraq. a marine squad leader who fought in the battle of fallujah who is now a fire fighter er ier i ee philadelphia, adam, thank you for coming on. let me go back to the point we were making earlier. the distinction is key between calling these 300 americans going into iraq troops versus adviser and because bottom line, these are u.s. military, correct? correct. in my opinion, it is political semantics. we are calling them adviser now and instead of combat troops or boots on the ground. however you want to word it. we are talking about the united states navy s.e.a.l.s, united states army rangers. they are the most elite fighters we have. so if they aren t going to be combat troops i m not quite sure who the president is going to refer to as combat troops. okay. troops, adviser, what dangers, adam, might they face? they are going to face all the dangers we face when we were in iraq the first time. they are going to face same dangers our adviser faced in vietnam when they first went in there too advise before the war escalated there. and another issue i have is that we are we appear to be doing this, sending adviser in to show we are doing something without really doing much at all. i don t know what the president thought we were doing for the last eight years when we were in iraq. i personally had iraqi security forces attached to me and spent day after day with them leading them, working side by side with them and teaching them everything i knew about the patrolling and about room clearing and combat operations and how to kill the enemy. and they were receptive to that. they were receptive. what are we going to do today we don t then? i was worried about your confidence level. we are talking about the adviser. how about the advisees, the iraqis. you are confident in them? my confidence in them, i would say is split. i personally was very fortunate to have an excellent group of iraqi security forces with me. they fought very bravely and on more than one occasion, they almost tried to take the ball out of our court and into their own and said look, this is our country. this is our responsibility and this is our fight. we immediate to be the ones that handle this. on the flip side, i have friends over there who had the exact opposite experience where, you know, over 50% of the unit would desert at a given time and the first fire fight that would happen, they would drop their rifles and run. i m skeptical at best right now. let s hope the advisees, the adviser, will be working with. you fought in the battle of fallujah. truly historic fight to retake the city from insurgents. what are you peeling? as you see the enemy in charge of fallujah today. i feel disgust really. not so much that they have control. i mean, that s absolute terrible. but what bothers me most is something that we fought so hard for, inch by inch, door by door, house by house, so much blood to take, kind of collapse and given back to them so easily without any kind of real resistance. i mean, i didn t think it would become mainstream america in this disney worldesque place. i didn t think iraq or isis or whatever organization is ask your currently going to take things over unopposed. disgust. you echo many people had a spent so much time serving. we thank you for your time serve thing country. thank you so much for coming on. appreciate it. absolutely. thank you for having me. coming up the main suspect in the benghazi attacks. on a ship back to the u.s. still he is being questioned. officials don t expect to have it easy. challenges they face here in this interrogation. also ahead, donald sterling s wife, have you heard? she asked a judge to protect witnesses from possible intimidation by her husband. what kind of threatening behavior are we talking about? we will discuss that. also ahead, an injure ed man, 1 days in a cave. how did he survive? stay right here. 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[woman] that s good. i know right? cheers to that. gevalia. 150 years of rich, never bitter coffee. means keeping seven billion ctransactions flowing.g, and when weather hits, it s data mayhem. but airlines running hp end-to-end solutions are always calm during a storm. so if your business deals with the unexpected, hp big data and cloud solutions make sure you always know what s coming - and are ready for it. make it matter. breaking news. let s take you straight to capitol hill. reverberation, the shock really within congress as the house majority leader eric cantor lost in a primary last week to an economics professor from virginia. let s go straight to dana bash voting on who it will be to take his place. huge majority leader. dana, who is it? kevin mccarthy of california. we just heard the results from the secret ballot that s going on behind closed doors. this was expected. but certainly not a done deal until we actually got the results. he was challenged by raul labrador who is was kind of elected on the tea party wave back in 2010. it wasn t a robust challenge. it was more of a challenge to make clear to the tea party activists out there they were trying to plant the flag a little bit. it was expected mccarthy would win but noteworthy that he is a 49-year-old who had only been in congress for eight years. ironically, brooke, he won his really conservative district. he lives in bakersfield, california. es a blue state. in a year democrats tack over congress back in wicks. he has million now, until his colleagues elected him, majority leader, the number three, house majority whip. he had been the guy in charge of counting all the votes every time they brought a piece of legislation to the floor. and now he s moved up a spot and he s now taking his friend, eric cantor s place. kevin mccarthy will be the new house majority leader. i hear all the activity in the buzz around you. there s more voting happening. correct? will is more voting. because now that kevin mccarthy, who is the house majority whip, moved up, there is a race taking place as we speak. another secret ballot for his job. this is really where the drama is. the reason is it is dramatic is not because maybe that the people running household names. they are not. it is dramatic because when you look at the rub within the republican party the fight for the heart and soul of the gop, it is being played out for this house majority whip race. you have pea republican from illinois, the establishment type. and another republican who is from louisiana and the reason why this is important is because he is from a red southern state. and the whole push from a lot of the tea party-backed conservatives, another conservatives, they have been upset there hadn t been a red state, even southern conservative, at the leadership table. there is one other real quick. one other candidate who is from indiana. because there are three of them and you have to get above 50% to be win, it is entirely possible there will be a second round. the third will drop out and then we will see who takes it at the end of the day. right. the majority. exactly. i got it. dana bash, thank you so much. here we have it. kevin mccarthy. thank you. coming up, donald sterling s wife asked a judge to protect witnesses from possible intimidation by her husband. what may that entail? that s coming up on cnn. how are things with the new guy? all we do is go out to dinner. that s it? i mean, he picks up the tab every time, which is great.what? he s using you. he probably has a citi thankyou card and gets 2x the points at restaurants. so he s just racking up points with me. some people. ugh! no, i ve got it. the citi thankyou preferred card. now earn 2x the points on dining out and entertainment, with no annual fee. to apply, go to citi.com/thankyoucards [ squeaking ] [ water dripping ] visit tripadvisor hawaii. 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[ chainsaw buzzing ] humans. sometimes, life trips us up. sometimes, we trip ourselves up. and although the mistakes may seem to just keep coming at you, so do the solutions. like multi-policy discounts from liberty mutual insurance. save up to 10% just for combining your auto and home insurance. call liberty mutual insurance at. to speak with an insurance expert and ask about all the personalized savings available for when you get married, move into a new house, or add a car to your policy. personalized coverage and savings all the things humans need to make our world a little less imperfect. call. and ask about all the ways you could save. liberty mutual insurance responsibility. what s your policy? the wife of l.a. clippers co-owner, donald sterling, asked a california judge to protect witnesses from being intimidated by her husband. cnn just obtained audio, voice mails, entered into court by shelley sterling s attorney. let me bring in brian todd in washington. you can explain what was entered, these voice mails. tell me what is happening in court. we have breaking news from the court. the judge denied shelley sterling s appeal. the judge said he will not issue an order protecting witnesses or keeping donald sterling or his attorneys from contacting witnesses saying it does not rise to the level of great and irreparable injuries to the party involved. that ruling coming out from the judge in probate court in california. this is in response to dramatic menacing phone calls allegedly from donald sterling to his estranged wife s lawyer and doctors. we have audio of one of the alleged calls from donald sterling on june 9. i believe this is one to a neurologist that examined him and declared him mentally incompetent. take a listen. monday, june 9, 3:12 p.m. this is donald sterling. i would like you to have your attorney and your insurance company call me at [ bleep ] you release my medical records of my head to a law firm without my permission. you came in and you purported to examine me and you never told me anything about it. you are nothing but a fraud and sxlir cheat. i m going to see that you lose your license. sterling goes on to call the doctor a horrible woman and says that he is going to sue her. there is another voice mail that he left. we have a krans tript of that. another doctor who examined him and declared him mentally incompetent. in the voice mail, which they say was left for the doctor on june 9. a man, they say, is sterling quote, i m not incompetent. you are f ing competent. sterling called him, no voice mail, court papers, donald says sterling opened the call by calling him an expletive starting with an a and mr. sterling shouted even louder and said in a menacing tone i m going to take you out, o donnell, which i understood to mean that mr. sterling was going to kill me or have me killed. that according to pierce o donnell. cnn spoke with donald sterling, attorney bobby simini today. he did not deny sterling made those calls. he said, he was with sterl when sterling called his wife s lawyer, pierce o donnell, and said sterlding not threaten o donnell. all of this, brooke, can be brought out in a trial next month where shelley sterling is going to try to get this judge to back her $2 billion of sale of the clippers to steve ballmer. a big part of that trial will be a question of donald sterling s mental competence. okay. that begins july 7. thank you very much. coming up, president obama stressing today that the future of iraq is in the hands of its own people. we will take you live to baghdad next for reaction. what the president said, the special statement. also ahead, terror group isis wreaking havoc across iraq, pushing its agenda, social media. there is someone that has been tweeting secrets of the terror group, a possible former member of isis. we will explain the significance here. what has been revealed? 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good is choosing not to overshoot the moon, but to land right on it. good is maxwell house. good to the last drop good is maxwell house. hiwe just love scouring flea markets for special treasures. but with my type 2 diabetes, we now spend all our time at the pharmacy. with med-care, i don t have to! they deliver everything i need right to my door! with free shipping! plus, med-care takes private policies, medicaid, even my medicare! sleep apnea machines, nebulizers, med-care has all the finest medical supplies. the best part.med-care saves us money! med-care allows us the time to do the things we love. med-care. we deliver a better life. asking al maliki for years to be more inclusive. you asked him to do it and he failed. so should he resign at this point? how much more time should he be given? is the u.s. any closer to delivering the kind of they free syrian army is asking for in its battle against isis? well, margaret, it is up to the people of iraq to decide the future of their government. not the united states. and it is a fact that well known that we have been pushing for certain reforms for a period of time. more importantly, people in iraq than asking for these reforms for a period of time. secretary of state john kerry responding to a question moments ago as far as the future of al maliki. the prime minister of iraq. secretary kerry echoing the president. president obama s message earlier today when he said it is not our business to choose leaders. above all, iraqi leaders must rise above their differences and come together around a political plan for iraq s future. shia, sunni, kurds, all iraq writes must have confidence that they can advance their interests and aspirations through the political process rather than through violence. again, that was the president. a little while ago, announcing he is prepared to send up to 300 military adviser into iraq to try to help iraq stop the onslaught of sunni militants. before we push ahead, brief history. 6,000 b.c. an idea, they gave up wandering and between two rivers they declared they were home. built shelters and grew crops and traded among themselves and started keeping records. history, as it were. fast forward through the millennia. after world war i, that spot where human first established roots began a country we now know as iraq. its boundaries drawn not by its own people but rather by european diplomats. the scant regard on the fact that their newly minted iraqis develop ad long history of fighting each other. saddam hussein, you may recall, frightened iraqis so much so that for most of his 24 years in power, they suspended their mutual hatred but since his overthrow at the hands of u.s. forces, iraq, despite strenuous efforts by the u.s., is back to trying to settle its age-old score. bob bobby gosh, welcome for joining me. i want to i wanted to have this smart segment on the current claim but also lookings at history. it is true iraq s troubles started perhaps even p end with the map that was drawn after world war i. would you agree? well, yes. it is suddenly true that the british and french drew maps all over the middle east. ing in fact, all over the colonial world that if you look back and make no sense at all but let s not forget, there are many countries created with that whimsical map making. that held together pretty well. and don t have the kind of problems iraq has. it is not simply a question of bad map making that brought iraq to where it is today. it is also succession of poor leaders and two very devastating wars. one against iraq iran and then, of course, more recent war against the u.s. and coalition forces. and then terrible government after the war by the person who is now prime minister, al maliki. it is part of a continuum of extremely poor governance by over a millennia. you mentioned al maliki and mentioned leadership. again, i go back. the 100 years after the european established iraq and established the government and established rules. and it is still happening. the outside powers, wrought side forces, trying to make the rules for iraq. the white house is saying, you know, it wants a new leader there. it is saying that between the lines. the white house is not alone. there are plenty of people much closer to iraq. in its own neighborhoods saying the same things. in a democrat, it is hard to think of a democratic country where a leader loses large amounts of territory to a terrorist group, thounz and of his people die and his soldiers give up the battle and run away and that leader still stays and most democratic countries that leader would have in shame and humiliation been either would have either resigned from government or would have been driven out of government by his own political party. it is astonishing maliki is still prime minister of rock. the longer he is prime minister of iraq, he is a divisive figure. he is not, to use the words after the former president, he is not a uniter. she a divider. how can you guarantee if ultimately maliki goes away who could are there names being loan out? i haven t read any, whether it be sunni, kurd, shia, who could lead the country as a uniter. yes. that is very much a problem. it is clear maliki is not the right man for the job. who is? that s much harder. the one 2345i78 had a keeps coming up is the predecessor. he does not prove to be adept either. what seems to be very clear and seen similar situations in other parts of the world, in a situation like this when the country is in danger of being ripped apart you immediate some sort of a national coalition government. it brings together all political movements, all political schemes under one common banner. if you are lucky then you have a charismatic statesman-like leader in the mid whole can rule. if you are not lucky, at least if you have all parties under a common pen you have the different groups talking to each other politically. in iraq, you plainly don t have that. maliki refuses to talk to the sunni political leadership. never mind the terrorists. the sunni political leaders. he is he had a sunni vice president and issued an arrest warrant against him. the vice president had to flee the country. here s not a way you include people. that s how you push them away. you have to imagine the white house is evaluating and watching under al maliki every dawe. thank you so much for joining me. now to this terror group in iraq, isis, considers itself a state. it appears the so-called government has i a leaker. it appears. take a look at this article from the daily beast, calling someone is spilling isis secrets on twitter. it is about the account which has been revealing insider details for more than the last six months about isis covert alliances and leaders and more. who is behind the account? joining me is david seagal, army veteran and reporter at the daily beast. jacob, welcome. thanks for having me. who is this person or persons and is what had individual is claiming via twitter actually carried out? nobody knows exactly who is behind the account. it is an anonymous account. clearly it is not a disinterested party. it is not somebody looking to just object the truth. isis probably most likely somebody who belongs to one of isis islamist rivals. likely in syria. probably the news up front. it is somebody whose intent is to smear isis and by smear, i don t mean point to the group s brutality but to smear it in terms that would undermine it to other islamist followers. that is the perfect segue because what was in your piece, the obvious question of why, why is this person what are the motivations? whoever is behind the tweets, isn t motivated to an allegiance of truth or the idea liberated and spoken to power. like a mafiso complaining that his fellow hitman failed to play by the rules, it is not the murders that bother wikibaghdady. the complaints of the formation of isis and its split from the news front which ask the al qaeda affiliated group in syria. and this is actually really something that goes back to isis involvement and the syrian civil war. they had always been in iraq and originated in iraq. it was not until they got involved in syria that they gained the strength that allowed them to pull off what they had been doing in iraq now. in the course of fight in syria, they ended up alienating other jihadi groups, other groups that they once had alliances with and there has been a back and forth effort on twitter, information operations from various factions, seeking to discredit one another and what they have been been doing, among other things, was pointing to some of the baathist tie-ins isis. being saddam hussein s party. right. so an arab nationalist party and by pointing to those ties, it was seeking to discredit the religious authority and the credentials that isis had by suggesting that high-level level inside isis was bad or pointing out those ties. as it turns out, isis to talk over the second largest city in iraq. months and you will spread as quickly as it has due largely to the fact it is not acting alone. it is part of a broader sunni coalition. it certainly involves baathist groups. while this sect seeking to discredit isis, it clearly didn t work even amongst perhaps a receptive audience in the jihadi community. isis has only gotten more popular. more popular meaning all this traction. much because of the propaganda. war front documentation they have been putting out on the meat. jason seagal from the daily beast. thank you so much. it is an interesting angle, this whole story playing out in iraq. thank you. coming up next, the main suspect in the benghazi attacks on a ship back to the u.s. is being questioned right now. we will talk live to an interrogation expert what could be happening on board this ship. yoplait whips! it is so good for whipping up a little treat. so i can reach ally bank 24/7 but there are24/7branches? 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well, the first thing is establishing some kind of relationship or rapport in getting to what are his primary motivations? what s his subject s primary motivation. now not just for a case like this individual, khatallah, but when it comes to combating terrorism cases or criminal realm, something you touched upon from my experience going back to before 9/11, there is but a pine line between so-called intelligence interview and criminal interrogation. i know for me and partners for the u.s.s. cole operation, it was about the actionable information that can be used by planners, to disrupt plots and come up with battle plans. something that you mentioned, though, before, about a tactical battlefield interrogation, though. it is different by degree than interrogation in this type of setting. this type of setting, you know all along that this guy is going to trial. to build a case. right? that s right. absolutely. but think in terms of the jointness here. and this seems to be a really peckive hybrid approach where you have special operation forces, fbi elements and u.s. intelligence community combining for the snatch and grab to have the subject in custody. what happened in benghazi, of course, critically important. both for intelligence purposes and then for the elements of the crime when it goes to court. but rest assured right now in the early phases, as long as he s talking, it is going to be about intelligence requirement. if you are sitting let s imagine you are on this hip and facing khatallah, at what point as an interrogator do you know have you him? he is going to talk. that is a good frame of reference. even in the most productive cases, rarely is there ever a breakthrough where the subject says, okay, you have me. whatever you want, get ready, it is usually more of an incremental approach based on how the rapport and relationships are going. tapping into those things that most motivate the subject and using information that he s giving to determine whether it is truthful, validating and vetting, building trust and building confidence and some of the best-laid plans experienced interrogators know they may have to change on a dime if the plan is not working. there may be even a situation, too, where you are you can be be certain that some of the best interrogators in the business are there and that if it is just not clicking with the team, they may bring in others to have a more effective approach or different approach. what s the biggest mistake an intear gator can make? not coming up with the information. not coming out with the information. thank you so much. as we learn more about the story, love to have you back to talk about that. coming up next, world cup fever. key american player will miss sunday s crucial game against portugal. but happening right now p. the game between england and uruguay. we have live fan reaction from where else, a public, of course. nineteen years ago, we thought, wow, how is there no way to tell the good from the bad? 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[woman] that s good. i know right? gevalia. and cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment is right. cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. a key american player will miss sunday s world cup game against portugal. josie altidore got hurt, strained his hamstring during the huge win monday against guana. brand new video shows the u.s. team practicing today in sao paulo. a spokesman says there is hope he can return at some point during the tournament. right now, i can tell you that england taking on uruguay in a crunch game. each looking to rebound from opening match losses. richard roth joins us live from the blind pig pub in new york s east village. this is my favorite time every four years, the glisten, twinkle in your eye talking world cup, richard. take it away. yeah, well that twinkle sometimes occurs elsewhere in new york. during this world cup, it s very exciting. uruguay did, england, 1-0 uruguay at the half. i ve got english supporters, dean and paul. what did you think of wayne rooney s performance and england s performance? we re getting beat so not very good. but rooney s good, man. like everyone s bashing rooney. he s not having the best of game but there s nothing wrong. england is not knocked out but obviously a loss would put them in a really bad position headed to the last final group game. paul, what do you think? most certainly. the only thing to be said is once more into the breach, dear friends. i ll fill this pitch with our english debt. shakespeare in the park is further uptown. english fans have gotten a little bit used to losing lately. a lot of high hopes the last world cup. only win was 1966. what do you think? is this over again? are you used to losing already? i m afraid i m a little bit used to it. two years before i was born. i m a middle-aged man. this is a problem. we have to solve it. you sound english, man. you re negative, man. only 1-nil halftime. just a television reporter. by birth, we re negative. does it is hurt luis suarez played in england for liverpool. playing against for our five of his mates right now. he s going to score. you don t mind it s him. no, we need to score than than he s going to forward. he s a great forward. it s happening. it s happening. england! come on, england! i just met these men. anyway, i ll see them further in the back i m sure. brooke, back to you. richard roth, a man who has covered the united nations for many years. i love it when you talk soccer. good luck to those teams. serious news, getting breaks is news from the cdc. up to 75 employees may have been unintentionally exposed to anthrax. our medical team on the story. we ll talk to elizabeth cohen after a break. [ female announcer ] we love our smartphones. and now telcos using hp big data solutions are feeling the love, too. by offering things like on-the-spot data upgrades an idea that reduced overcharge complaints by 98%. no matter how fast your business needs to adapt, if hp big data solutions can keep wireless customers smiling, imagine what they can do for yours. make it matter. humans. we are beautifully imperfect creatures living in an imperfect world. that s why liberty mutual insurance has your back, offering exclusive products like optional better car replacement, where if your car is totaled, we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. call. and ask an insurance expert about all our benefits today, like our 24/7 support and service, because at liberty mutual insurance, we believe our customers do their best out there in the world, so we do everything we can to be there for them when they need us. plus, you could save hundreds when you switch, up to $423. call. today. liberty mutual insurance responsibility. what s your policy? female announcer: don save $300 on beautyrest and posturepedic. plus, pay no interest for 36 months on tempur-pedic and icomfort. sleep train s 4th of july sale is on now. your ticket to a better night s sleep new germany. this man trapped underground for 12 days in the deepest cave in germany brought to the surface. cnn s diana magnay shows us this rescue. trapped underground for 12 days gravely injured, finally on thursday morning, lifted to safety. in the long unseen light of day. it was one of the most delicate perilous and possibly expensive cave rescues of all time. the man at its its center the joe han strapped to this stretcher and hoisted, winched and squeezed through the belly of the bavarian alps. translator: i have the pleasant duty to inform you that the injured cave explorer has safely arrived at the click clinic. we have reached the main goal, to get the patient the appropriate emergency aid that is appropriate for his condition. deep inside these mountains is a vast network of tunnels and chambers largely unexplored. the whole complex means thing and it s german s deepest cave. the 52-year-old experienced cave explorer was 1,000 meters underground when he was injured by falling rocks, suffering trauma to the brain. one colleague stayed with him wrapping him in three sleeping bags to keep him warm and dry in near zero temperatures while the third member of their team went for help. and so began a complex operation involving international teams from across the alps. 200 rescue workers inside the cave alone who repllayed the patient slowly painstakingly along the narrowest of sharps past water falls and up vertical climbs to safety. up at the entrance to the cave high in the mountains, helicopters brought him food and equipment. the whole area sealed off to other air traffic to make sure nothing interrupted the mission. rescue workers were clearly emotional at the successful outcome of such a technically complex mission. translator: i saw an hour ago when my people came back down from the mountain how the strongest guys who are not easily shaken who have been in the cave for days had tears in their eyes when the moment came. mission accomplished for the more than 700 involved in an epic tale of man versus mountain. diana magnay, cnn, berlin. thank you. we re finally getting information on break is news i mentioned. the cdc saying 75 employees have been unintentionally exposed to anthrax. they say that exposure was after proper safety procedures that they were not followed. jake tapper has more on that right now on the lead . jake? anthrax. the word itself just sounds scary. how did dozens of government scientists, trained to handle anthrax end up in possible dangering? i m jake tapper. this is the lead. the breaking news. as many as 75 scientists working for the u.s. government now being treated for exposure to anthrax. how did such a lethal bacteria get t?
netanyahu will be in paris tomorrow for a rally in the wake of this week s terror attacks after four hostages were killed at a kosher grocery store. netanyahu told french jews that israel was also their home. and meantime hezbollah s leader is reportedly slamming the terrorists who slaughtered 12 people at charlie hebdo pag. according to the associated press, he is quoted as saying that islamist terrorists have done more to harm the religion and insult the prophet muhammad than anyone who drew a cartoon or wrote a book. i want to bring in now our expert panel to talk about these major developments the news changing by the minute here. joining me now, global affairs analyst, bobby gauche. our national security analyst peter bergen as well as senior international correspondent fred pleitgen just outside that grocery store where those four hostages were killed yesterday in eastern paris. bobby, perhaps i can start with you. this new report that sleeper cells have been activated inside france what if any, warnings should be going out to french people right now? i noticed, walking down the champs elysees that people were out. you can see behind me that traffic is still going, and i saw some police officers out as well. how serious do you consider this warning? well i think if the french police are taking it seriously, they do have excellent connections inside radical groups and very good track record in espionage, then it should be taken very seriously. the difficulty of course now is that after the incidents of this week many french people want to come out in defiance as we ve seen with all these rallies and marches and parades. they want to show the terrorists that they are unafraid that they are unbowed, and you want to you know you can understand that impulse. the determination to show that they will not be frightened into locking into staying behind locked doors. and at the same time you have this heightened risk. so for french security this is a really difficult moment where if indeed these cells are more active then there are more targets available to them because more and more french people are coming out in protest in this way. i m glad you mentioned that bobby. just credit where credit is due. as i ve been walking around paris today, i have seen people doing exactly that showing their defiance frankly just by living their lives. and there s one big visible demonstration of that right now on the top of the larkarc de triomphe. je suis charlie. peter, i wonder if you can help put this latest terror warning into context for our viewers. i was told for instance in the last 4 hours by a former head of france s counterterror services that there is something along the lines of 5,000 suspected terrorists in france. if you have this warning going out of sleeper cells activated, can you give a sense of how big that threat would be how many sleeper cells? do we just not know? is it unlikely that even the french authorities know how many potential attackers there are out there tonight? well yeah. i mean we ve seen varying estimate of the number of people for instance who have gone to syria from france. it is the largest group of westerners who have traveled to the syrian conflict. the british government estimates 700 have gone. not clear which groups they ve joined. i saw in today s new york times of an estimate of 1,000 to 2,000. so the point is that that is a very large number. as you ve been reporting over the last couple of days for each one in the tier one case of these suspects i mean you have 20 individuals that we ll need to monitor, a particular individual, so you do the math. it s just an extraordinary number of people that you would need to follow around people who are deemed to be dangerous because of this very large group of people who have gone to syria including, it seems, perhaps now, the girl friendfriend of the people who pulled off the charlie hebdo attack. it s an almost impossible thing to do. it is however, somewhat simplified by social media, electronic surveillance. you don t have to monitor physically all of these people. presumably you have phone numbers and sort of e-mail accounts and stuff. that makes it a little bit easier. but still, it s an impossible task to look at everybody who might be a suspect. yeah the numbers described to me three to ten officers to follow just one target. if you have 5,000 potentials that gets us very quickly into the tens of thousands of personnel. just not possible. we do know that tonight in light of this latest threat but also just the attacks that have played out over the last three to four days that hundreds more french police and frankly military as well have been deployed in and around paris to help increase security plus in preparation for tomorrow s planned march in solidarity where you have leaders such as netanyahu and others coming here, security for that as well. fred pleitgen you re outside that kosher grocery store where i was yesterday as well as the siege unfolded. big news today that the french now saying that the girlfriend of the attacker there, amedi coulibaly. there was talk she might have been in that grocery store. now there s talk that she left a number of days ago. what are the details, and how did police learn this just now? well it appears as though the turkish authorities also knew about this as well. they said that they were tracking her inside turkey that she got there on january 2nd and apparently later made her way on to syria. and so the french authorities, which obviously have been putting out the dragnet trying to find this woman at some point must have been found out that in fact she hasn t been inside france for a very long time or at least before these events here unfolded. one of the things that we also have to keep in mind is she was also very much sought after also due to the fact that they thought that she was part of that killing of the police officer that happened here on thursday where coulibaly apparently shot that police officer, then got away and then later went here on the kosher grocery store. so the french authorities would obviously still very much like to speak to this woman. however, at this point that would be impossible. however, still of the four people they believe have been involved in these plots that have unfolded here over the past couple of days, she is the only one who s still alive, and she would, obviously, have a lot of very sensitive information that would be very important to them. one of the things however, jim, i have to say that s been going on here tonight is that there has been a vigil also for the people who were killed in that raid. it s been very important to the folks here. there were a large number of members of the jewish community who came out here. and i do have to say there s a lot of people from the jewish community who were very upset at what happened and who quite frankly are very concerned about what happened. of course francois hollande the president, called this an anti-semitic attack. when we had the vigil going on a little less than an hour ago, you did have people here with banners screaming je suis charlie, of course equating these two incidents and also making note of the fact that part of it at least, there was an anti-semitic attack that went on. the jewish community here in france of course has been saying for a very long time that anti-semitism is on the rise that they realize it s not even a small fraction of the muslim community that s doing that but it is a faction that is in fact growing. and it is something of great concern, and that concern, i have to say, was something that came out in the street today. in fact i d like to show you something because the debate about all this is going on tonight here in the streets of paris. if we just pan over here really quick, we can see that folks are debating what s going on right now. there s a sort of trove of people a little further. there they are. who have been debating this for a very long time. and this situation actually even got a little bit rowdy for a while when some people started screaming a little louder, a little sort of i wouldn t say a fight, but a little bit of back-and-forth sort of broke out. but it is something where people are seriously having these debates where the jewish community is saying we have some serious concerns about what s going on. and it seems as though at this point in time this nation is debating on what this new dialogue between christians muslims and jews needs to look like in this country. and they ve certainly come to realize that they need some sort of new mode of operation in this country after these horrifying attacks that have taken place and also all the things in the run-up to what happened here over the past couple of days, jim. fred i m glad you made that point. it is a necessary debate. and just to remind viewers outside of france outside of europe and back in the u.s. that in recent elections in europe you ve had a number of far right parties, certainly here in france the national front and in other countries in europe the uk et cetera that have had far right parties who are anti-immigrant with very you know offensive views, frankly, to many garner significant support in national elections, and the anger goes in many directions because just in the last two, three days you ve had attacks on mosques, kabob shops, part of the backlash against the muslim faith as well. i want to get to a point you raised as well fred and ask bobby and peter about it because this gets to how do countries such as france and europe and the u.s. track all these terrorists moving around particularly with the supreme concern focused on foreign fighters returning from syria to their homes in europe and possibly to the u.s. where they might carry out terror attacks? peter, i might go to you. it appears there was a major disconnect here, if the french were not aware until today, that someone with deep connections to terrorists here this hayat boumediene traveled to turkey well really more than a week ago. i ve been talking to u.s. intelligence officials for a number of months about the concern of the returning foreign fighters. they ve talked about the increased communication, cooperation among western intelligence agencies to fight this. this seems to have been a hole exposed in that kind of movement communication and tracking of that kind of movement back and forth. peter, significant? yeah. i mean i think, you know you can drive from paris to damascus effectively, without, you know much of a problem. i mean, that s part of the issue. secondly i think the french only belatedly begun to realize that this was a major issue for them in november of last year. they basically made it a crime to go and travel to join a terrorist organization in a country like syria or iraq which was sort of closing the barn door after the horse had bolted. finally, i think the turks themselves have had a not particularly great role in this. i ve talked to senior law enforcement officials recently who say the turks have got a better handle on this and certainly the fact that they ve flagged the travel of hayat, the girlfriend right now is indicative of that. but previous lip, it was a bit of an open season. that anybody that went to turkey could get into syria pretty easily. there s quite a lot of blame to go all around here, jim. no question. and to be fair we re talking about hundreds we re talking about thousands of people. this is difficult for any intelligence agency to do but the fact is that is the problem that they are facing today. i would add the note that in the case of hayat boumediene she boarded a flight for turkey when it would be different from driving a car. so you would at least have a moment when she had to show her passport. you would have a name you know the possibility of running a name through a computer system. bobby gauche, peter bergen fred pleitgen on the scene of that kosher market shooting. thanks very much for joining us. i m going to turn to my colleague, brianna keilar. she s with us in the u.s. tonight and will be continuing to be with us in the u.s. tonight tracking all those developments. brianna? thanks jim. as we mentioned, police from paris to istanbul are now on a frantic hunt for this woman. you just heard them talking about her. hayat boumediene. who is she? how did she come to be involved in this terror plot? that s coming up after the break. welcome back to our viewers in the u.s. and overseas. i m jim sciutto in paris. we re following a number of new developments tonight including word of a new terror alert here in france targeting police. as well as news that we now know that those believed responsible for the charlie hebb bow hebdo attacks. cnn s brian todd has more on hayat boumediene. reporter: a western intelligence source tells cnn boumediene lived with coulibaly and the two once traveled to malaysia together. we don t know if she was involved as some type of cover or more likely she was involved because she was radicalized along with her boyfriend and got sucked in to working together at some level. reporter: the french newspaper le monde published these photos apparently of boo boumediene boumediene. cnn cannot verify the authenticity. le monde reports she once told police they had once practiced firing crossbows in the countryside of central france as shown in these pictures. boumediene had been in a relationship with him since 2010 according to le monde, and she was interviewed by counterterrorism police that same year. analysts say while the number of female jihadists is growing, their male counterparts still consider them valuable cover. many of these people now have wives, have girlfriends, that enables them to do things they might not otherwise be able to do. you don t appear to be a lone young, angry man. you re walking with women. reporter: we learned from the paris prosecutor more solid information connecting hayat boumediene and her boyfriend to the brothers who killed the people at the magazine. prosecutors are aware of more than 500 phone calls made between boumediene and the wife of suspect cherif kouachi. brian todd, cnn, washington. i want to bring in my colleague brianna keilar in new york. she s got a panel of experts to talk over these latest developments. brianna? thanks jim. joining me we have global affairs analyst bobby gauche the managing editor of courts. we have political commentator buck sexton a former cia counterterrorism analyst and interrogation and terrorism expert robert mcfadden. he s a former special agent in charge at ncis now with the sufan group. bobby bobby, something we ve been talking a little bit about, the girlfriend hayat boumediene this is the girlfriend of the shooter in the kosher market in paris. she we think she took part in some of the planning here. i mean do we necessarily think that she did take part even if she had left days before? well the plot itself from what we can deduce it suggests that this is something that they had been planning for a while. so yes, it s possible that she was part of the plan. the fact that she leaves paris before the execution suggests at the very least, they wanted to get her out of harm s way. they wanted to get her away from the police and from investigations. her exact participation, her exact role we ll find out, i m sure in the days ahead as the sort of forensic evidence. we just heard her having 500 phone calls to one of the kouachi brother s wife. we ll know more in the next few days. yeah. we certainly do expect to know more. we were talking in the last panel about being able to track these individuals, knowing that so many people may have come back or may be inspired to pursue a similar extremist path. but are these guys different, buck, do you think? these are the brothers were known. they re on the u.s. no-fly list. mr. coulibaly is certainly known, was in prison. is this something that shouldn t have gotten past the authorities in france? well it certainly raises eyebrows that you have an individual who only serves 18 months for a terrorism offense. the french authorities have surveillance on him. but this is part of the soft underbelly of a free society. you can t lock somebody up for longer just because you have a very good inclination. the laws are what they are in france. i think that any time this happens, there s this idea that somehow we could have perfect security if we did something differently, if there was some difference in either the law or the procedure. but quite honestly, the attacks are going to happen. it s cyclical in nature. we can point to similar attacks like this in the past. and i think what you see here is just the tactics and procedures of the french police particularly the counterassault teams like the gign who are a big differentiator between what could have been more of a mass casualty attack. you have one of the brothers who served 18 months for a terrorism-related offense. so that said that is alarming in that it isn t much time. but at the same time does that flag him in a way that makes him a priority for french authorities to really keep track of do you think, robert? should, should have been. was this a mistake? well i mean speaking to the sheer numbers, the french have challenges that we don t when you re talking about the numbers. the demographic makeup the amount of foreign fighters. but here s the comparison, though. in what we ve heard over the last, now, over 48 hours about both of the brothers the third party involved here amedi, the travel, the facilitation for foreign fighters into iraq attempt or actual travel over there, one brother had gone to yemen. i can t imagine a scenario in the united states where and plus the prison time the associations in prisons with other very bad characters where we would have someone like that in the united states that wouldn t have been under incredible scrutiny. i m going to bring in jim. he s in paris. and he has a question for our panel here. jim? i wonder as you listen to this latest news we have tonight, perhaps i might ask bobby about this, and if the other panelists want to give their thoughts about new terror cells activated here in paris, specifically targeting police. can you help our viewers understand how france responds to that? it s a country of 50 million people. there are currently tens of thousands of police and security forces around the country responding to this terror threat. that is an enormous task to try to protect all of them. in fact you re telling them to protect themselves by keeping their weapons close at all times, by erasing their profiles on social media. how enormous a task is that for french police to do successfully? that is a huge task because as we were saying earlier, not only is there a large police force, that large police force is now out in the street to protect large numbers of french people who are coming out in demonstration, in sympathy for those who have been killed by the terrorists. so the police are even more vulnerable than they ever have been before. that detail that they ve been asked to erase their social media profiles that speaks to a very very specific threat. i ve never heard a police force being asked to do that. i mean many countries around the world, unfortunately, it s the nature of our times that different levels of alert are announced, but i ve never heard that specific detail of alert being ordered. and that says to me and maybe the other guests will agree that that says to me something very very particular has been uncovered. there s always a threat. and i worked for the nypd counterterrorism division. this is something we had to look at even the aftermath of the times square bombing, for example, where you had a manhunt going on. and then after you had seized the individual responsible for the bombing in 2010 there were concerns about follow-on attack attacks. there were concerns about deeping the population safe while engaged in those secondary investigations. and also trying to suppress any of the follow-on attacks that may come. so there are a lot of moving pieces. and the probe is that problem is that security forces in france or my case the u.s. to be 100% successful. it s a big ask. the french counterterrorism police for example, are very well trained and french intelligence services are excellent. so they have a pretty good shot as good a shot as most countries would, i think. indeed. in the event after something like this the aftermath or this period right now where the french may be acting on intelligence they have and from the allies but you have that period of uncertainty. so everything swings toward an arch conservative approach when it comes to security and that s the period the french are in right now. gentlemen, thank you so much. robert mcfadden with us buck sexton and bobby ghosh. jim, back to you. there s a rally tomorrow expected here in paris to draw as many as 1 million people marching through the streets. that adds to the security challenge for french police and anti-terror forces. we ll be covering that very closely here at cnn tomorrow. well, at the center of this investigation, a u.s.-born cleric who was once a feared jihadi he was killed by the u.s. a few years ago. but now his name is resurfacing in this investigation. we ll explain who he is right after this. 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[container door closing] what makes it an nx is what you can get out of it. introducing the first-ever lexus nx turbo and hybrid. once you go beyond utility there s no going back. huh, fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. everybody knows that. well, did you know you that former pro football player ickey woods will celebrate almost anything? unh-uh. number 44. whoooo! forty-four, that s me! get some cold cuts. get some cold cuts. get some cold cuts! whooo! gimme some! geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. whoo! forty-four ladies, that s me! whoo.gonna get some cold cuts today! female announcer: get beautyrest, posturepedic even tempur-pedic mattress sets at low clearance prices. save even more on floor samples, demonstrators, and closeout inventory. the year end clearance sale is on now at sleep train. your ticket to a better night s sleep welcome back. i m jim sciutto in paris. there is mounting evidence that the two paris terror attack suspects had training in yemen. that is the home of an al qaeda in the arabian peninsula once led by anwar al awlaki until he was killed in a drone strike there 2011. cherif the younger of the two attack suspects told a reporter by telephone shortly before he was killed on friday that al awlaki paid him to come for yemen. u.s. officials say it is likely that said kouachi, the older brother, also crossed paths with awlaki during a 2011 stint in yemen. cnn international correspondent nic robertson has more on the potentiallinks here in paris to the american awlaki. reporter: anwar al awlaki. the radical american-born yemen-based preacher killed in a u.s. drone strike september 2011. an inspiration for some of the paris gunmen and supporters worldwide. he reminds me of for example, osama bin laden and also ayman al zawahiri in terms of he s soft-spoken, and at the same time the knowledge that they have. reporter: reality was, al awlaki was such a rising al qaeda star in 2011 bin laden was jealous of him, blowing off suggestions the cleric should run al qaeda in yemen. al awlaki s father was a minister in the yemeni government. he had lived in the usa, was smart and privileged had preached at a mosque in virginia. but was named in the 9/11 commission as knowing some of the 9/11 hijackers. soon after, he left for yemen. that s where this man, morton storm, a danish biker-turned-jihadi who says he became a cia spy, met him. his passion to retain the west and spread this global jihad, it was his whole life. he sacrificed his life to achieve that. reporter: he also had a taste for western women. storm says awlaki asked to fix him up with a white blonde european wife. they met on video. this recording is done specifically for the brother who is carrying this recording, this is a trustworthy brother. headscarves. i hope you will be pleased with it. reporter: she could not be reached by cnn. storm says the cia used him to track al awlaki who had become reclusive fearing an attack but he was also becoming more dangerous, asking storm and others to recruit western radicals for training. once they have trained, he will request of the leadership of al qaeda, will request that he will return back to the west and then wait. reporter: his tally of hits and near-misses was growing. inspiring fort hood shooter nidal hasan who had gunned down 13 servicemen at the base in 2009. and the london subway bombers in 2005 who killed 52 people. also inspiring two foiled plots to blow up u.s. airliners flying to the united states. by the time he was killed al awlaki had become a massive global threat but storm warns the paris attacks may not be the last time he reaches from beyond the grave. there are sleeper cells, and they are will be to be patient for even a couple of years to be ready to hit. reporter: with this paris threat apparently nearly over the world s counterterrorism officials can turn their attention to that looming threat. nic robertson, cnn, atlanta. should the west be as worried about yemen as we are today about iraq and syria? u.s. counterterror officials have told me the answer to that question is yes, for sure. we re going to talk about that more with our panel right after this break. here s our new trainer ensure active heart health. i maximize good stuff, like my potassium and phytosterols which may help lower cholesterol. new ensure active heart health supports your heart and body so you stay active and strong. ensure, take life in. welcome back. i m jim sciutto in paris. and we want to update you now on the very latest. a french police source telling cnn that terror sleeper cells were activated just over the last 4 hours inside france. police officers have been told tonight to erase all traces of their online presence on social media and to keep their weapons close at all times. meanwhile, the hunt is on for the world s most-wanted terror companion, 26-year-old hayat boumediene is the only person suspected of connections to the terror spree here in paris who remains alive today. and this. cnn has learned that israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu will be in paris tomorrow for a rally in the wake of this week s terror attacks. that rally expected to draw some 1 million people to the french capital. well there is growing evidence pointing to ties between the kouachi brothers accused of carrying out the paris magazine attacks and al qaeda cells inside yemen. there is also a reported claim which cnn cannot verify that al qaeda in the ararebian peninsula, says it orchestrated the attack on the magazine charlie hebdo. the government of yemen says it has launched an investigation into a possible link between the two. brianna keilar joins me now, again, from new york. brianna? thanks jim. that s the question. do these attacks have a link to yemen? and here to discuss this again, we have cnn global affairs analyst bobby ghosh, buck sexton and senior vice president of the sufan group and former ncis special agent in charge robert mcfadden. also national security analyst peter bergen who wrote manhunt: the ten-year search for bin laden. how worried, peter, i ll start with you, how worried should the west be about aqap al qaeda in the arabian peninsula? well they just conducted the most deadly terrorist attack in europe in a decade. so i think that speaks for itself. i mean i think the evidence that al qaeda in yemen was behind this attack is simply overwhelming. it s not a case of speculation now. we have one of the principal perpetrators giving the interview to french television saying he was behind it. we have eyewitnesses at the scene, also hearing this claim when the attack on the magazine happened. we have aqap saying that they were behind this. i mean i just don t and we also have all this travel to yemen by both brothers. i don t think it s no longer an open question. this is a group that has succeeded actually until recently,ist been a record of failure. their plans to attack american airlines all fizzled. but now they have this big win, unfortunately. and do you expect peter, that this is really the template that we are going to see happen again? brianna, i m never sure there s a real template. if you re a terrorist, you kind of like, improvise given the situation. but if you look at what happened on wednesday at the attack on the magazine it s kind of a hybrid of what happened in the boston marathon bombings minus the bombing and also the mumbai attacks with multiple gunmen where you basically keep the whole thing going for as long as possible. you know you re going to die at the end of it. and, you know you get three days of sustained global media coverage as happened in all those cases. all right, peter. i m going to bring jim back in. i know jim sciutto, there with us in paris, i know you have some questions for our panel here. reporter: thank you, brianna. interesting day today as we not only digest the attacks in the last three and four days here in paris, but look forward to the possibility of new attacks here. and two major questions seem to have been raised. one is how does france respond to the possibility there are other sleeper cells out there? two, what does the fact that this attack happened say about france s ability to do that in light of the fact that these attackers were known to the security services here? for a time they had been under surveillance but were no longer under surveillance when those attacks began on wednesday. i wonder if i could ask that second question first. and peter, maybe you want to come in on that. do you consider this an intelligence failure, one? and two, what does that say to you about france s ability looking forward in light of additional threats to prevent further attacks? i ll tell hindsight is always 20/20. if you look at the boston bombings tamerlan the older brother, who basically led the attack you know he was the subject of fbi scrutiny and then you know he kind of fell off the radar. he was also involved it looks like in a triple murder in the boston area which was never really pursued properly by local police. and major nidal hasan, he exchanged all these e-mails with al awlaki. that was known to the fbi. one part of the fbi wanted to investigate him. one part of the fbi dropped the ball. you know do the thought experiment where an attacker comes along who has never showed up on the radar screen of law enforcement. in a way, that s an even worse picture. typically with these terrorists attack there have been some indicators that they should have been more carefully paid attention to whether that s in the united states or france or anywhere else, jim. all right. reporter: brianna brianna, i think from both of our i want to ask you sorry, jim. go ahead. reporter: no brianna, i was just going to say that you know it s only fair that intelligence services counterterrorist services have tremendously a difficult job whether it s in the u.s. or here in europe. and i suppose, brianna, we re seeing that play out here both in these attacks this week but as france and other countries try to prevent new attacks. certainly. and i wonder to follow on what we heard peter talking about, do you feel that this is an intelligence failure, or is it is it that there are so many young muslim men in france who have gone from anger to extremeism that even at this point, even though we re talking about a very small fraction of the muslim population obviously it is a very small fraction, and that s important to note. but are there enough people like these brothers and like the market shooter that you just can t keep up with them? what do you think? i think that that s the case. i mean when you look at radicalization in france one of the big problems that domestic intelligence services always have to deal with is catching that gap or people in that gap between radicalization radical ideas and actually jihadization or taking it to the level of a terror attack. you have the situation just? the sub in the suburbs of paris, regularly burned cars. hundreds. there will be riots. there are individuals spewing radical rhetoric. zut that but that doesn t mean you can throw them in jail for a long period of time. their laws actually are much less defensive of civil liberty than people realize. they can essentially pull what they want to pull in terms of someone s information. even with that ability, people are going to slip through the cracks. it is abhorrent, although it s inevitable at the same time. it s like drinking out of ai fire hose i think, at this point. stay with me. we ll come back to you with other questions, robert buck and bobby. get a quick commercial break in here. as france reacts to these events many are asking were the attacks an act of vengeance for the death of american-born al qaeda leader anwar al awlaki? we ll go inside the story of the double agent who risked it all to take down one of the world s most dangerous terrorists. double agent: inside al qaeda for the cia. that s tonight at 9:00 eastern only on cnn. and despite the tragedy, charlie hebdo is moving forward with a new issue next wednesday. eight pages. this is a defiant show that the cartoonists cannot be silenced by terrorists. we have that ahead. ben. well, that was close. you ain t lyin . let quicken loans help you save your money. with a mortgage that s engineered to amaze. (son) oh no. can you fix it, dad? yeah, i can fix that. (dad) i wanted a car that could handle anything. i fixed it! (dad) that s why i got a subaru legacy. (vo) symmetrical all-wheel drive plus 36 mpg. i gotta break more toys. (vo) introducing the all-new subaru legacy. it s not just a sedan. it s a subaru. so nice, so nice sweet, sweet st. thomas nice so nice, so nice st. croix full of pure vibes so nice, so nice st. john a real paradise so nice, so nice proud to be from the virgin islands and the whole place nice to experience your virgin islands nice , book one of our packages today. the editorial staff of charlie hebdo magazine met on friday to begin work on their upcoming issue. they held their meeting at the liberation newspaper. really it s the first time that the staff had to meet elsewhere since their building was firebombed back in 2011. charlie hebdo s attorney spoke for the entire staff, many of whom were in tears. translator: we re also here to work so we are going to forget about the craziness outside this room. we are going to forget about the video cameras. we are simply going to work on our next issue. those who are here will make it work. joining me now to talk about charlie hebdo and its decision to get right back to work is cnn senior media correspondent and host of reliable sources, brian stelter. and brian, i know that you spoke with someone who was in that meeting. this must have been so emotional. yeah this was the first editorial meeting yesterday. and now they are at work again today and will be through the weekend preparing this publication. they ve said they want to print a million copies next week. usually they print 60,000 copies a week. so you can imagine the interest is going to be next wednesday when this comes out. what s the message that they re trying to send? because to get even really to kind of get out of bed and meet the day and to go back to work just a couple of days after this happened. this is amazing, and this was so difficult. yeah. what do they want people and the terrorists to take away from this? to print anything would be a statement and will be a statement next week. but what they re printing is also very interesting. what they re discussing printing anyway is also very interesting. according to the person who was in this meet isabel hahn they talked about potentially not running obituaries of the dead cartoonists but instead running unpublished cartoons they had created in the past. they talked about not wanting to print blank pages. that was a possibility as well. and you could imagine that would come up as an idea. they don t want to have emptiness in the newspaper of the magazine. they want to fill it with content. not necessarily with obituaries or looking back at what happened last week, but instead showing a more triumphant face and putting out an issue that doesn t feel like a tribute but feels like what they would have always done. but in way, a way, it is a tribute, right? it will be their work. that s exactly the idea. this is all evolving. you can imagine the meetings they re in trying to figure that out. and there was one quote yesterday that was really striking. it said i think we can also say and we should express in the issue that we ve been very lonely these past few years. you know that there weren t a lot of other magazines like them out there that were taking the kinds of risks, being as provocative and as incendiary about all religions, by the way, not just about islam, not just extreme forms of islam. they re obviously not lonely right now. they ve had so much support come in both financial as well as moral support, whether it s other newspapers magazines republishing some of their cartoons or whether it s donations from the guardian and from a press fund backed by google and others. real quick, if they re hoping for 1 million copies how many would they normally print? usually 60,000. 1-6? 6-0? 6-0. we re talking at least 14 times as many as would normally come out. i have a feeling it will maybe even get higher than that not to mention all the digital copies. i think most people will want to see this online if they can t get a copy here in the, they ll be able to see it on the internet. many people who didn t necessarily know what charlie hebdo hebdo was. who didn t even know how to pronounce the name but are now very curious. brian stelter thank you so much. is the group also looking to turn france against all muslims? how would that work? we have that ahead. 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[container door closing] what makes it an nx is what you can get out of it. introducing the first-ever lexus nx turbo and hybrid. once you go beyond utility there s no going back. right! now you re gonna ask for my credit card - - so you can charge me on the down low two weeks later look, credit karma - are you talking to websites again? this website says free credit scores . oh. credit karma! yeah, it s really free. look, you don t even have to put in your credit card information. what?! credit karma. really free credit scores. really. free. i could talk to you all day. by all appearances the charlie hedbo terror attack has united the french people but it may have also further isolated french muslims and several experts are suggesting that the latter is exactly what the terrorists might have wanted all along. they say right now most muslims do not sympathize with al qaeda. but the terror attack incites all muslims to stand with all muslims. i m joined now by cnn global affairs analyst bobby ghosh to talk more about this. you have a different take on bobby, you don t think there will be a backlash of all muslims from nonmuslims who feel isolated from the, quote-unquote, mainstream of french society. i think that s less likely. maybe you ll go through days and weeks where there s tension and fear and antagonism but i think in the long run that will begin to fade. 10% of the population of france is muslim. what that means is almost every french person who is not a muslim knows somebody who is a muslim. you encounter muslims all the time in france. if you do, if you see them in your grocery store, if you see them in your office your kids are going to school with other kids who are muslim if that s the case then you know that most muslims are not like this. it s hard to paint muslims as the other if you re constantly interacting with them. and the analog for this the example for this is what happened in britain after the 77 attacks in london. there was a similar fear that the non-muslim brits would turn against muslims. it did not happen for similar reasons. british people know muslims, see them encounter them see them on television see them in their public life all the time. let me ask you to play devil s advocate here. if someone knows someone, they see them in the grocery store, they work with them they re muslim fine. but what about muslims that they don t know that maybe they re not going to give the benefit of the doubt to? is that a possibility? i think certainly now, right now, when the nation is going through a trauma and let s not understate that. it is a big trauma for the french state especially since this is an attack that was conducted by french nationals. french citizens. it s a big blow. so there will be a period i think when people are suspicious an tagtagonistic and there are political bodies in france the right wing extremist political parties that will seek to stir anxiety. yeah. but i think, you know, i have faith in france s in french society that they will in the long term even in the medium term be able to absorb this blow and get past it. french muslim are very much part of french culture. there s a lot of communications. yes, there is a very large proportion of french muslim population that s very poor that is destitute let s talk about that, though. yeah. how do you deal with that section of the population that feels disenfranchised, that is angry, that looks at something like this especially some of the younger folks and something like this may appeal to them? there are two narratives coming out of this. one, yes, the narrative of the kouachis and the coulibaly but there s also the narrative of the french copy editor at charlie hedbo who died. there s the narrative of the french muslim policeman who died. there s the narrative of the young french man who at the grocery at the kosher market. kosher market protected the lives of some shoppers. so there are two narratives coming out, as they should be. that allows young people that gives young french people a different story, a different thing to aspire to. and hopefully as we ve already seen that s the narrative that will become the dominant one and that s the narrative that the french the muslim community will want to embrace in ways that will be will be constructive. that certainly is the hope. and bobby ghosh, we ll continue our conversation coming up. new reports, an order for terror cells to be activated while police and security forces launch a massive hunt and worry that a key suspect may have slipped through their fingers. hi there, you re watching breaking news here on cnn. i m brianna keilar in new york. and i m jim sciutto in paris. by all appearances the charlie hedbo attack the threat certainly still not over here. we have new information today about police warning about potential new threats, particularly against police officers. a security meeting taking place in paris today among police a warning going out to police that the possibility of terror cells, sleeper cells, activated in the last 24 hours. police advised as a precaution to keep their weapons close at all times as a result of that warning and also erase their social media presence. take down their profiles on facebook twitter, et cetera. why? because it is believed that is how some of these groups are identifying potential targets. that is one piece of news today. another piece of news today, french authorities establishing that the missing partner of the man who carried out the attack on a kosher market yesterday in paris, hayat boumediene, is no longer in paris. they believe that, in fact, she left for turkey possibly en route to syria, some one week ago. turkey now doing its best to track their movements there. i m joined now by samuel laurent he s a cnn terror analyst. he has covered the terror issue for some time has written books about the terror threat here. and samuel let s talk about this new warning going out to police today. this resulted from a security briefing today, is that right? yeah. exactly. there has been a security briefing this afternoon from directory that is basically working on terror issues. and it has been advised to the police to stay very careful as some cells has been uncovered and activated by coulibaly which was the hostage taker in the kosher shop. amedi coulibaly? exactly. the hostage taker in the kosher shop and, actually he has been sending some calls that have been traced over the last days and even hours of his life in order to start activating some of his network. and the instructions seem to be clear, seems to be attacking the police. so when we say activating these terror cells, they are tracing that to phone calls that amedi coulibaly made while he had taken over already taken over this kosher shop and perhaps before that after i just want to remind our viewers because the attacker who took over the kosher market is the same attacker who killed a female police officer on a shooting in the paris street thursday before the attack. when they are talking about actvation of cells they are talking about him making phone calls to people in the broader networks in which he, coulibaly and the kouachi brothers who carried out the charlie hedbo attack. we are talking about three peoples from now. even the initial cell from which they originated in 2008 was much bigger and better than that. it was 10 15 20 people. this cell has probably increased in terms of number syria and the flows of jihadis flowing and coming back to france. so we can expect unfortunately in those cells those members, the members, are much more numerous than the three we already neutralized. this was the thing, this was an early question were the original two attacks connected, of course, the very deadly bloody attack on charlie hedbo on wednesday followed on thursday by that police shooting followed, again, by taking over that kosher market. it became very clear to police that, in fact, they were connected. there were deep ties between coulibaly and between those kouachi brothers. very deep ties. both of them has basically the same mentor who had met long time ago in jail. they have radicalized there. and basically they spoke the same ideas. and later on alongside with the war and the fracture in syria between al qaeda and isis we have saw some of them drifting towards the new movement towards isis because coulibaly basically was claiming to be acting on the name of isis when the others were still loyal to al qaeda. this is very interesting. because there were moments, there were phone calls, the kouachi brothers reached by a journalist a french journalist yesterday, in the midst of this standoff before they were later killed by french security police a journalist called that office and managed to reach one of the kouachi brothers who said we are doing this for al qaeda in the arabian peninsula and he said that anwar al awlaki had financed it. so you had that with the kouachi brothers. with coulibaly at the kosher market, he was saying isis. how do you explain that difference? and i wonder actually for our viewers as well do we draw distinctions where there aren t necessarily distinctions that perhaps they could have allegiances to both? you know, the goal is the same. the goal for isis and for al qaeda is exactly the same towards the west. it s aggression. it s fighting. it s terrorism. but actually what we saw is a replication of the drift that is now existing among the jihadi community worldwide. you saw it in the middle east and you saw it in northern africa. all the jihadi movements that were entirely loyal to al qaeda have been drifting with part of them making allegiance to to isis. to the caliphate. because of isis success, success as they ve taken over as they claim, established an islamic state in iraq and syria, that success is an enormous driver for recruiting. isis is concrete. al qaeda is an idea. they are basically throwing ideas. isis is concrete. it has an army. it has a place. a government and so on. so therefore, yes, it has a power of seduction that is much bigger. but actually what we ve seen now is a competition between the two organizations which are far from france. they are rival nowaday. and basically this terror plots are part of i would say, a competition to game the heart of radical muslims worldwide. it really is a sick competition. it is very sick. isn t it? because the way they attract attention is who can be bloodier and more brutal. the french authorities today realizing in effect that the girlfriend or partner, there was some marriage ceremony of amedi coulibaly, that she actually was not in france that she left for turkey possibly on her way to syria. how important is she to this to investigating this to stopping further attacks, catching her? how important is that? she was very important and that s why she left. actually we noticed that for one year she has spent 500 calls to the wife of the other brother. so therefore, she was the link. they were both very under a lot of surveillance. so the wives i would say or the girlfriends were used at that time to be the logisticians of these operations. basically she has a lot of information. she s extremely precious in terms of intelligence. so that s probably why the reason why she s been exited out of france. the same way in the cold war era people were exited from the soviet union. interesting. they left the hostile territory to go back to the black hole that is syria. hard to track there. exactly. samuel laurent very helpful on the alarming concerning developments today about a further threat here in france. please stay with us. we re going to have new information about one of the brother s trips to yemen and what happened when he came back to france. another startling development. please stay with us. we ll have that right after this break. so ally bank really has no hidden fees on savings accounts? that s right. it s just that i m worried about you know hidden things. ok, why s that? no hidden fees from the bank where no branches equals great rates. and welcome back. i m jim sciutto in paris. i m joined now by senior reporter for le express magazine. eric pellitier. he has startling news regarding one of the kouachi brothers in his travels overseas before this week s attacks. what have you learned? yeah. we know that let s say, july 2011 one of the brother went to haman and has been staying in the area around three weeks. we don t know exactly what he did. but the american intelligence services transmitted to the french side very important information. he may have joined training camp. so he went to amman. for sure. and then on to yemen was their belief. probably he went to yemen to join a training camp. you re saying u.s. intelligence tracked him there and then communicated that to the french. that s for sure because this is the starting point of the french surveillance because in november 2011 because the american transmitted this information to the french they decided to put these brother under surveillance. see, this was a question. so after that yemen trip the french put him under what we call in the u.s. a control order? yeah. under surveillance yeah. under surveillance as well. a control order so he couldn t travel and a surveillance so you could watch him. and you have found and this is particularly startling, that they later made a decision to take him off that surveillance. yes. that s very important. he had been under surveillance during at least three years. 2011 to 2014. yes. okay. yes. and last summer the surveillance has been ended. they ended the surveillance just last summer? yeah. six months roughly before you re right. the attacks took place. you re right. because they did not detect any danger emitted danger for national security. did not detect an immediate danger even with the knowledge that he had traveled to yemen. and i believe they have the knowledge at that point that he had met with al qaeda in the arabian peninsula with aqap or just that he had traveled to yemen? we know that he traveled to amman and he stayed in the region in the area and the americans said probably he went to yemen. i see. but that s the only information we had at that point. i see. so they believed he d gone on to yemen. they didn t know for sure so they weren t, thereby, certain that he had linked up to aqap while he was in yemen? yeah. okay. but still, interesting. so they decided he was an important enough figure to keep him under surveillance for three years that s quite long yes. a very long time. at a great dedication of resources. i spoke with the former head of french counterterror unit a couple of days ago who explained to me you need three to ten officers to keep one person under surveillance. you imagine in a country, i ll just remind our viewers in u.s. and around the world, that france is estimated has some 5,000 suspected terrorists. yeah. this is an enormous task. that s probably why the surveillance ended last summer because they did not detect anything. they decided to go to other targets. i see. and this is a difficult judgment call to be sure. because intelligence services whether in france or the u.s. they have a number of potential suspects and deciding before they act is a difficult thing to do. that said just six months ago to take him off and then this happens. in france how much of a failure is that is that considered? well of course this is a failure, because when you see that people have been killed shot dead in paris, this is a failure, of course. there is no other option. but we must know how it has been possible and probably we did not consider the american information transmitted in november 2011. right. interesting. so it s an example where you have the french and u.s. intelligence services sharing information, but then, of course the next step is what do you do with that information? of course. of course. eric pelletier, thanks for joining us. thank you. interesting reporting and somewhat alarming brianna, just to recap, that french intelligence had one of the kouachi brothers these are the brothers responsible for the deadly attack on the charlie hedbo magazine under surveillance for three years. enormous dedication of resources. he had to be important, but just six months ago as eric pelleyty yea has reported they took him off the surveillance. thank you, jim sciutto, for us in paris. that illustrates the difficulties the french authorities have with this problem. i want to talk about it more with sal lifuri and robert mcfadden also with us and we have national security analyst bob baer he s a former cia operative and we have law enforcement analyst tom fuentes formerly with the fbi. sal, i want to start with you and i want to talk about this warning to police that they really need to in a way erase themselves from social media. don t put yourself out there. don t give don t make yourself a target really and also keep your gun close. what do you make of this? to french police. yeah to the french police. obviously it s, you know something that law enforcement doesn t hear all the time. it s not something we re very familiar with here in the united states. but the fact that the warning came out must have been something that was very specific. there must be intelligence that said that some of the cells or some of the groups might be trying to identify law enforcement and go after them. because they would make an attractive target. and, tom, what do you think of this the fact that there could be some threat against police officers in france? certainly there is a lot of vigilance here in new york city because of two police officers who were assassinated recently. but what do you make of this new alert in france? well brianna, you know, the warnings or the threat issued by isis in particular has been out for a couple of months now. that s why we saw the attack particularly in ottawa canada and the hatchet attack of nypd officers in new york so this is just a repeat of the standing order, if you will from isis to go after people in uniform, military and/or police officers because they symbolize the government and the uniform is basically like having a target on their back. secondly on social media, you know a lot of people don t realize if they take pictures at home and they use their smartphone and it s little pierre s birthday party and they shoot the pictures and put it on facebook and other social media, sometimes the grid coordinates, the grid coordinates, are embedded in that photo and others can open it up and say, aha, that s where that person lives, that s where the police officer s family is. you know that s part of the reason of being able to track people on social media. all right, robert i want to talk a little bit about what we re hearing from hezbollah. a terrorist group saying do you know what we condemn this. what do we make of this? is this just sunni versus shia? is this a schism when we re talking about islamic extremism? what do we decipher this to be? i saw that earlier. and actually no surprise in the current environment a couple of things to take from that. one, politically hezbollah wants to show the upper hand when it comes to look we re not for this kind of savagery and terrorism. okay? the reality of it is though too, in syria and in lebanon it s going toe to toe with this brand of extreme sunni islam that s the ideology that fuels what the brothers did. so you have that trying to show we re not for that part of islam, but at the same time a poke against one of its mortal enemies. that type of ideology in syria. so is that just pr as you read it? that s a part of it absolutely is a part of it. it s a part of it okay. and then i want to talk about some of the news we just heard right before our panel began. bob, you heard that that french authorities had had the kouachi brothers under surveillance for three years and yet just here in the last six months they had pulled that surveillance. what do you think of that? is this something that french authorities will look back on and will say this was a huge mistake? or is this french authorities really they re trying to drink out of a fire hose and they can t keep everyone under surveillance who could be a potential problem? well brianna, you re exactly right. i mean the fact that a frenchman traveled to yemen does not, you know, mean that he s going there for terrorism training. he may have gone there to study arabic to study islam. you don t know. because the only thing the cia can tell the french is that he s gone there. he s traveled from amman to sanaa and he s disappeared. in the mountain areas there s no way to track him. the french put him on a list. they listened to his phone for a while. i doubt they put physical surveillance without a physical threat. it would not only take dozens of people it would take hundreds of people to track one of these people. if, in fact, there are 5,000 terror suspects in france it s pretty much a gamble who you follow and who you don t. and once we get into this metadata and start looking at this attack we re going to see all sorts of connections that everybody is going to say, they should have gone after this. but you ve got 5 million to 6 million muslims in france and it s overwhelmed the police. let s talk about the metadata. the idea that there may be a smarter way to connect the dots here. when you look at how the french police are doing their job here is it a good job? and how could they get better here? well i think right now, brianna, we don t know what kind of metadata they have. what that basically means here in the united states instead of only having phone records going back a year or two years you re asking in this case in the u.s. the nsa, hold these records for multiple years so when the attack happens and we want to go back to 2011 or 10 or 2009 you can go back. and then see the phone calls and the connections and who called who at that time. otherwise that s lost forever and you can t go back and retrack who those conversations not so much conversation but who was in touch with who and try to retrace that. you know, and as bob just mentioned, the underwear bomber who tried to blow up the airliner in 2009 attended arabic studies in sanaa, yemen, in 2004 to 2005. so there, if you will legit legitimate purposes to go to yemen that don t necessarily involve terrorism or if they do it can be camouflaged by attending a legitimate school. very good point. tom fuentes, thank you so much. thank you, bob baer and sal and robert. appreciate you being with us. we ll talk more about this hezbollah. you have hezbollah which the u.s. describes as a terrorist organization condemning what has happened in france. why is this happening? 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[laughter] bulldog: that tickles! mattress discounters year end clearance sale ends soon. mattress discounters welcome back i m jim sciutto in paris. the leader of a group considered terrorists by the u.s. and europe is making his own feelings known about what happened here in paris. he heads the shiite muslim group hezbollah he says extremists in general, islamic extremists do more damage to islam and the prophet muhammad than any cartoons or books or newspapers. our nick payton walsh is in beirut tonight. hezbollah has been responsible for terrorist attacks of its own. how significant is it to have the statement like this granted, he did not mention the charlie hedbo attackers specifically but certainly the timing is telling. how significant a statement do you think that is? reporter: well the timing was late on friday. just as the world was getting to grips with the aftermath of those standoffs in france. certainly, yes, hezbollah, as you say, viewed as a terrorist organization by the u.s. and many western countries, too, has had a lengthy, complex task of trying to reposition itself effectively here inside the middle east. they are on the shia side. they re representing a shia majority minority depending on your demographic viewpoint here inside lebanon. they are backing the syrian regime inside syria, too, some say they re also fighting inside iraq as well. when it comes to these acts of extremism in the west, elsewhere, they re often going to be blamed on sunni radical groups and many say that hezbollah are carefully and slowly not mentioning paris by name in this speech trying to position themselves in a more not western friendly but certainly less anti-western capacity than they used to be. simply because perhaps they wish to see any assistance or effectively their enemy s enemy being their friend. coming in their advantage in the months ahead. but it is very significant to hear hassan nasrallah, a man who founded this movement from the beginning to oppose israel coming out with a statement like that, late on friday. jim? i m glad you made that point, that you, of course hezbollah, shiite group. the terror groups we see active isis and in syria and iraq and aqap principally sunni groups. is it purely sec tarn lyly sectarian or are there other elements there? we saw splits before al qaeda in effect kicking out isis for being too radical. so how much of this in your view is sectarian, and how much of it is a concern you referenced just then that that some of these acts some of these attacks, may be going too far and might damage their own interests? so what do you percentage or what portion do you think is sectarian or what portion do ul think is that concern? reporter: i think it s really pragmatism at the end of the day. this is a country lebanon which is hezbollah s home today they are wrestling this evening in the north city of tripoli with a double suicide bombing. they hit a restaurant killing seven, injuring 20 according to a state news agency that is most likely going to be claimed by a sunni extremist group like an ally to al qaeda, so there s the midst here in lebanon of a feeling potential crisis. most lebanese strongly oppose isis or even the idea of them having an increased presence inside lebanon but it s locally pragmatic. i think many are concerned who support hezbollah that they are significantly drained by their involvement in syria and even iraq over the past year or so. they are perhaps looking to consolidate their position here inside lebanon when it comes to a moment like this when the world is frankly not all united but mostly united about a vision of disgust about what happened in paris they seize this moment to position themselves in the moral majority rather than their prescription as a terrorist organization finding themselves on the fringes. a key moment certainly but fascinating to hear that voice considered extremist itself by the u.s. coming out effectively against what the u.s. considers extremism today at that particular time, jim. well fascinating developments for sure. competition for attention, for relevance among these groups and we see that playing out. briannea keilar throwing back to you now in new york. you know, it s interesting, we talk a lot about the division between east and west between islam and christianity but you have, you know severe divisions playing out within the faith of islam. not just sectarian but over these attacks as well. yeah. certainly that is the case. and we re going to talk with a guest right now, jim sciutto, who is going to cover that with us. joining me now dr. ahmad, a muslim scholar. let s talk about what hezbollah is saying that islamic extremists have hurt islam more than cartoonists. some people would say that s rich considering that hezbollah s considered to be a terrorist organization but break this down for us. brianna i think they said the opposite. they said the cartoonists have injured islam more. i think that s what their statement was. but i think what hezbollah is trying to do is distance themselves from the actions of these people in france and that is masterful deception. hezbollah is an islamist organization an islamist in ideology. islamism can be institution, nonviolent or violent, as the french actors in this crisis recently. and what hezbollah is attempting to do is seeking legitimacy by denouncing these acts when they sponsor exactly the same ideology. what is the difference between islam and islamism? islam, i m a muslim and i follow islam is a spiritual mon though theism with a simple coda fasting, praying to mecca if we have enough means. man made 20th century construct. it s political toll totalitarian in ideology and at its center is vehement terrorist jihadism. it s not any kind of jihad that might be written about in the koran and it also has centrally deep anti-semitic intent. they regard islamists, jews or anything of jewish identity israel, jude dismyaism as a cosmic enemy. they launched a war in the northern border of israel in 2006 and they are anticipating a future war with the exact same nihilistic ideology. that hezbollah is trying to distance themselves from what is going on in france. iranian sponsored islamist movement. and iran is an islamist pseudodemocracy, i would call it a theocracy, but it s an islamist government has actually been the propoint of this violence. islamism came out of 20th century egypt. in 1928, from hassan bana it has all the qualities i talked about. and it s not constructed from islamic doctrine revealed doctrine. it is manned manmade. and yet many people struggle to make the distinction that you are making. how do they do that in a way to better understand what s going on? they are, first of all, i think you re doing the very initial steps, which is that we re having a conversation about islamism versus islam. just as at the beginning of the post-9/11 era there was difficult understanding sectarian divides between shia and sunni. similarly we re now in an era where people cannot understand that islamism is not true islam. we are enabling that confusion. we by i m talking about the united states or western democracies, by not exposing islamism. and the way we can distinguish it is learn it. political scientists have written about it and explained the differences. much of the scholarships coming out of the muslim world by muslim scholars. searching for under here is the key here. just to wrap around what we talked to at the beginning the head of hezbollah saying that terrorists have damaged islam more than cartoons. that s what he said. i see. but he s obviously considering himself not a subscriber to a terrorist ideology. which is what i said someone would look at it and say that s rich. yes. i would consider the ideology their ideology inspires and practices terrorist actions. and you don t differentiate? i absolutely don t. i think one of the there have been terrible barbaric outcomes because of isis which we recognize to be jihadist and islamist but one of the worst outcomes it makes groups like hamas and hezbollah to be legitimate because they fall short of a degree of barbarity. hezbollah is practicing a grand deception. many shades of it. thank you very much dr. ahmed. thank you. we ll be back with more live coverage from paris in just a moment. who cares what it holds, if it can t hold your gaze? who cares how tight it can turn, if it can t turn heads? who cares how capable it is, if it s incapable of creating a reaction? any suv can move something. but can it move you? introducing the first-ever lexus nx turbo and hybrid. once you go beyond utility there s no going back. 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reporter: well, it certainly is one that s going to be a lot more difficult now if the authorities really believe that she s not here in france anymore. of course, it appears as though it was turkish authorities that then did give the confirmation that she had actually left the country here on january 2nd. she was really one of those people who seemed absolutely pivotal to the investigation going forward, jim. because, remember that not only was it believed that she might have been inside the kosher store while the siege was going on with coulibaly, her boyfriend or husband, whichever way one wants to see it and that she might have escaped in the commotion that happened after the raid by the police but it s also it was believed that she might have been an accomplice in the murder that happened only a day earlier on thursday when a police woman was shot by coulibaly and he managed to get away there. remember that the wanted posters, the wanted signs, of her and him, came out as the siege began here in the kosher store. and so therefore, she was really one of those pivotal people. now, of course she s someone who authorities here want to speak to quite badly as well. because of the four people known to have been involved in all of the events that happened here over the past couple of days she is the only one who is still alive. whether or not it s feasible for french authorities to be able to get their hands on her or whether or not she s already disappeared in syria possibly that s something that the authorities here are going to have to find out, but certainly she was one of the pivotal people and now it appears she might very well be out of the reach of the law, jim. and, of course they may think that she would know more about this broader terror group, the kouachi brothers amedi coulibaly was involved in and they believe the people the kouachi brothers were urging to carry out further attacks on police certainly central to preventing attacks going forward. fred a major event planned in paris here tomorrow hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people joining, but also world leaders joining, some very impressive names. what do we know about the turnout tomorrow and who is going to join from overseas as well? reporter: yeah. absolutely. and the turnout appears to be or at heat those participating seems to become more impressive as the hours go on. we know that benjamin netanyahu, the prim minister of israel wants to come and the prime minister of turkey wants to come and angela merkel and david cameron will be here certainly a very prominent list of people who will come. it s unclear how big the turnout is going to be but certainly it will be in the tens of thousands if not well over 100,000 who want to take part in that march from the square set to begin at 3:00 p.m. the local time in france. it s certainly a march that will be very big and one that will focus not only on freedom of expression and the press but generally the way that european societies want to conduct themselves the way that european societies want to try to foster a little more cohesion between the various groups inside them going forward. of course, we keep talking about the fact that france is, of course the country in europe that has the largest muslim population. also, of course, has by most accounts most islamic extremists going to places like iraq and syria. it is a problem here. nevertheless it can t be stated more or often enough that it really is only a tiny fraction who live here who become susceptible to such ideologyies and there was a vigil that happened here tonight and that certainly was the message from that vigil as well certainly it is a concern but a civil society in a country like this one has to make clear that there is a very very large silent majority that certainly doesn t condone what happened here over the past couple of days jim. no question. we ve learned as well that jordan s king abdullah to join tomorrow as well. a tremendous showing not just from europe but leaders of the middle east the muslim world, a show of defiance to this sort of violence. we ll take a closer look shortly at the ties between to al qaeda on the arabian peninsula and isis. e financial noise financial noise financial noise financial noise major: ok fitness class! here s our new trainer ensure active heart health. heart: i m going to focus on the heart. i minimize my sodium and fat. gotta keep it lean and mean. pear: uh-oh. heart: i maximize good stuff like my potassium. and phytosterols, which may help lower cholesterol. major: i m feeling energized already. avo: new delicious ensure active heart health supports your heart and body, so you stay active and strong. ensure. take life in. sir, we re loaded and getting ready to go. .we re going to need you on the runway. 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(vo) theraflu. serious power. welcome back. i m jim sciutto in paris. we continue to cover the investigation of the violence here in paris over the last several days as well as a new warning tonight about the possibility of new attacks. i m joined by my colleague brianna keilar she s in new york. all right, thanks jim. i want to bring in our panel and have you jump in here in just a second as well. i want to talk about a rally that we are expecting to see tomorrow. already today we ve seen hundreds of thousands of people pouring onto the streets in france trying to show their solidarity with the victims of the attacks in paris. we were expecting many more to be on the ground tomorrow so let s talk about this now with robert mcfadden. we have sal lifrieri and bob baer and lieutenant general mark hurtling, gentlemen, sal and robert you re looking at a march tomorrow that could have hundreds of thousands of people i don t know maybe even more. we don t know exactly. and you ve also got two dozen world leaders coming in. that includes and i don t know exactly if he s participating in the march at this point, but he s coming in to france that includes israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. this is a big security concern, is it not? it s an incredible security concern. you know having worked on papal visits inaugurations, and you know the amount of time that you need to planning to be able to put an effective security plan in place. when you look at tomorrow what s going to happen and in light of everything that s gone on and is going on today, it s just an incredible security undertaking, you know you have an alert coming out today telling police officers to carry to make sure to have their weapons and to have their weapons. you re saying that cells have been activated and you are holding this event and you have world leaders coming. i can t picture the person who is responsible, what that person is going through tonight, who is responsible for that security. do you think that france is ready for this robert? what sal said it s hard to imagine a security event, endeavor of that scale with all that s going on with the threat reporting. obviously with the ambush of the french police woman a few days ago. intelligence and the ongoing threat to the police incredible. on the other hand though, i think at a national level looking at it from the french perspective, resiliency civil society, you know, is right there with security right now. yeah. as an important item for them. yeah some defiance to say that we aren t going to be we are not going indoors because of what has happened. i want to bring in jim sciutto now, i know you have some questions for our panel, jim. thanks brianna. the numbers are just daunting here. not only in france but for europe and frankly for the u.s. because you have really this pipeline of fighters coming out of iraq and syria as well as really hard to determine the extent the pool for lone wolf attacks, radicalized on their own. i wonder if as americans, as europeans, if the new reality is that attacks like this become a fact of life? as good a job as intelligence services can do to prevent some attacks, that invariably some will get through. bob baer your experience in the cia for years, is that a new reality do you think, not just for europeans, but for americans as well? jim, i think this is we re going to be hearing a lot more about this. there s going to be more attacks. they re going to probably be sophisticated like the ones in france. and let s don t forget these were assassinations against the magazine. they were directed against the kosher market and shooting the police hitting people in uniform, is a new level of an assault on the west. and i think that the french are i ve worked with the french in the past. they re very very good. they re good at data analytics. they got a great counterterrorism team there. but they simply can t deal with 5,000 suspects and 5 million to 6 million muslims. we don t even know how many muslims there are in france and easy travel to getting into syria, into yemen, crossing the border in turkey. they simply can t keep track of everybody. and if these people the jihadists, are determined to hit france, they will get through. it s a daunting reality. brianna keilar and i will be back with our panel with more on this topic right after this break. female announcer: it s time to make room for the new mattress models! during sleep train s huge year end clearance sale, get beautyrest, posturepedic even tempur-pedic mattress sets at low clearance prices. save even more on floor samples, demonstrators, and closeout inventory. plus, free same-day delivery, set-up and removal of your old set. why wait for the new models? sleep train s year end clearance sale is on now! .guaranteed! your ticket to a better night s sleep i want to bring back our panel now to talk about our breaking news coming out of paris. we have robert mcfadden sal, bob baer with us as well as lieutenant general mark hurtling. i want to talk to you, general hurtling about what we re seeing as this split. not really a split, but kind of a battle that you re seeing in islamic extremism between isis and al qaeda. you have isis essentially being kicked out of al qaeda or al qaeda saying really trying to distance itself from isis. let s talk about how that fits in to what we have seen in paris and also just talk about what we re seeing in the big picture here in this struggle between these two groups. yeah. i was fascinated by your conversation with jim a little while ago, brianna. the aqap is more of a political and a tribal organization not so much sectarian. you have al qaeda in pakistan none of them are competing well. and there s conflict with isis. all of these things have transitioned over the years and i think you ve seen an ebb and flow between different people joining different organizations. when you talk about the two brothers in france who immediately were enamored with aqap that organization has changed significantly over the last several years. and we re seeing those changes. and these sort of you heard dr. ahead talkmed talking about, i guess, these splinter groups or what many people would identify as islamist extremist groups. and she said that they re really you know, this isn t to be confused with islam. talk about what you see these groups doing to counter modern nonviolent muslim efforts. well what i ve seen over the last few days is there s been such an intense reaction by a lot of people of islam to this attack but you also have a popular uprising in many countries across europe to fanaticism. it reminds me a lot of what we saw in the awakening movement in iraq when moderate islam rose up against al qaeda in iraq in 2007 to begin the awakening. i think we may be on the cusp of that and that s something that could be a positive in all of this activity. and you saw that with all of the time that you spent in iraq. a very fascinating development there in the rejection of extremism. we will obviously hope that that is the case that we see that here and we ll be watching to see. lieutenant general mark hurtling thank you so much. thank you as well to robert sal and bob. we ll be back in just a quick moment with more on our breaking news. 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[container door closing] what makes it an nx is what you can get out of it. introducing the first-ever lexus nx turbo and hybrid. once you go beyond utility there s no going back. you are in the cnn newsroom. i m brianna keilar in new york. and i m jim sciutto in paris. welcome to our coverage of events in paris, in france including a new terror warning tonight. a fresh wave of fear rising in paris. a french police source tells cnn terror sleeper cells were activated just over the last 24 hours inside france. police officers have been told to erase their social media accounts and to carry their guns now at all times. up next i ll talk to a cnn analyst who spoke with french police about those terror cells. meanwhile, the hunt is on for a woman personally connected to all three terrorists who launched attacks in and around paris this week. hayat boumediene is the only person suspected to the terrorists in paris that is still
bombs found there, including this one that would have been detonated with a remote control car. this, a bag full of possible pipe bombs. in this hour, we re going to take a closer look at the shooters. we re going to talk to their next door neighbor. she says they were a happy, seemingly normal pair. we re going to speak to a co-worker who sat next to farook every day. he was in that office complex when farook and his wife opened fire. so much breaking developments tonight. we begin with kyung lah who is outfront in san bernardino. you ve been talking to farook s co-workers and they even threw a baby shower not that long ago. did they see any sign of a change? reporter: no signs. and that baby shower is an occasion that they were so friendly with one another that they wanted to celebrate the birth of his baby daughter. he was someone, as they described, as being mild mannered, not a man that they ever imagined at their holiday party would hatch a plan and try to kill them. [ sirens ] just minutes before the killers opened fire on the holiday party, patrick pikari left to use the bathroom when the attacks started. i thought somebody booby-trapped the towel dispenser. i looked back at the mirror and i could see i was bleeding. reporter: pikari hid in the bathroom while syed farook and his wife fired off 75 rounds while killing 14 people. they talked about cars, farook s 6 month old daughter, regular chat between two co-workers. why do you think he did this? well, i think his beliefs were contrary to our american dreams. you would think that somebody that s working to the capacity and education level that you are has similar respect, values. reporter: law enforcement officials tell cnn that farook was apparently radicalized and in touch with people being investigated by the fbi, talking by phone and on social media with more than one person being investigated for terrorism. but a law enforcement source says those talks were infrequent. the last one had been a few months ago, not raising any alarms. no red flags either, say u.s. and saudi government officials when farook went to saudi arabia. the fbi says the 28-year-old had also traveled to pakistan. the couple s landlord who rented the apartment they would later fill with weapons and bomb-making materials saw no sign this was coming. it s beyond my comprehension. because they seemed like such a gentle, mild person. so i don t know. you just can t tell a book by its cover. reporter: farook s brother-in-law didn t know. i have no idea. why would he do that? why would he do something like this? i have absolutely no idea. i am in shock myself. reporter: a sentiment echoed by patrick baccari. who wants to call their 16-year-old kid who say they just survived the attack. there s many people that didn t. reporter: baccari says the multiple bullet fragments in his body will stay, too risky to remove. what also remains, confusion, the man he so closely knew did this, now turning to anger and fear. i believe every citizen here should be armed to defend themselves in case of this happening but that s not everybody else s belief. i couldn t have defended anybody from the position i was in, even if i was armed. but at least if they tried to come in and get us in that restroom, i would have had some way of protecting the rest of us. reporter: now, if there s any clue to violence in farook s past, in his parents divorce records filed in 2008, his mother says her ex-husband was extremely violent, abusive, that he pushed her against the car and it s something that the children witnessed, he would threaten suicide and even threw a television on her. she even filed a temporary restraining order, violence that seemed to elude farook s life but as an adult, erin, when he came to the irc, as police continue to comb through this, they still have so many questions about how someone, who was so mild-man dernered on the outside could have committed such a violent, violent act. kyung lah, thank you very much. we re learning more about his family. i want to go now to pamela brown also in san bernardino. pam, you ve been looking at the relationship between the shooters, between farook and his wife. this is one of the most bizarre and important parts of the story. what have you learned? reporter: that s right. we ve learned, according to officials we ve been speaking with that it s believed that syed farook met his wife in saudi arabia in the summer of 2014. the last recorded trip he had there was during that summer. he was there for nine days. that is when they believe he met his wife. she then came back to the united states on a fiancee visa and obtained a green card and became a legal permanent resident from there. and frankly, that s all we ve been able to learn about their relationship because investigators say these were two people who were not on their radar. these were people who weren t on watch lists, that they didn t have they are trying to learn more about this relationship and how this was missed. we ve learned that officials, the fbi has been interviewing their family members and we re told that they have been cooperating but in terms of a motive, that s still unclear at this hour. erin? pamela, you know, not only are there so many questions about them, it s so unusual that they could have been so off the radar. we also know that it looks likely that they were actually preparing additional attacks. is that right? reporter: that s right. in fact, we ve learned that they had what appeared to be an ad hoc bomb lamb in the home. farook s mother, there were 12 explosive devices that were there inside that home, including 4500 rounds of ammunition and remote control cars that they believe they may have intended to use for the explosi explosives. so really a cache of weapons and that s part of the reason that in addition to why farook was in touch with terrorism suspects, although they were not high-prior tea suspects, they are questioning wll he could have been radicalized and whether this could have been a workplace dispute or perhaps a blend of both. erin? all right. thank you very much. amy larson lives next door to the shooters. you lived next door to them for about six months. what were they like? reporter: they just seemed like just regular neighbors, kind of kept to themselves, cordial and i would see a gentleman come home from work and we d greet each other and say hi, smile, met his mother, i believe, and the woman that lived there. i didn t know their names. you didn t know their names. at the time. but i know that obviously now you re thinking, gosh, you lived so close to them. police found pipe bombs in the house. right. thousands of rounds of ammunition. looking back now, annie, do you see any clues of what was actually happening? in retrospect, there s always things that you can see. of note lately, they just kept receiving multiple packages but it s christmastime and that seemed pretty normal. i know he did work in his garage pretty regularly, sometimes the door opened, times it was closed. so i didn t really think of any i didn t notice anything particularly abnormal for the area in which i live. what were they like as couple? did you notice anything there? or just seeming to be very normal american couple? yeah. normal. he was happy. i would see him smile. kind of entering the house and we share backyard fences and can hear you can hear each other if you re in the back and could hear the baby that they have there making baby sounds and seemed happy and just norm normal, a normal life. you have a baby yourself. i have a baby myself. yes. the fact that they had a baby here is one of the most impossible things to understand. i mean, you saw them. did they seem excited about this new baby? did you have any feelings or see tashfeen interact with her baby? what did you see? just seemed like they were regular moms and dads doing normal life. nothing really stood out. seemed happy to be together. so how do you feel now, annie, that knowing that this was happening right next door to you? as you say, this was this was adjacent to your home. this was touching your home. reporte i think the biggest thing that say parent probably in my face is sadness. sadness for our community, sadness for the lives that have been lost. sadness that glimmer of hope seems to keep dissipating in the madness of the world. but there s always hope and hope will always prevail. annie, when was the last time you saw them? i think it was sunday afternoon. i could see them through the fence. they just seemed happy. they were both kind of in and out of the house there on the patio. they seemed totally normal. totally normal. no idea. well, annie, thank you very much for being with me. you re welcome. best to you. art roderick is joining me, former investigations for the u.s. marshals. she said she had no idea. could someone do what they were doing, and building, how easy is it to do this undetected? well, i mean, i think we ve heard this description of individuals before that have gone out and committed heinous crimes. oh, they were a normal person. they were nice to me. they waved to me. i think you hit on it, erin. that 6-month-old baby. how could they leave that 6-month-old baby and commit a crime like this? and whether it s it hasn t been totally pinned down yet whether they were radicalized by someone, whether this was workplace violence. but i can t see this being workplace violence when you have the tactics that they used, which we have seen used in other terrorist attacks around the world. to leave that 6-month-old child without any parents to, me, again, points another finger in the direction of being radicalized. yeah. we just heard annie say how normal they seemed, and normal with their baby. how is that possible? the co-worker said that, too. everybody has said that. no one has said there was any sign of radicalization. yeah. i mean, they don t want to none of these people that become radicalized actually want to attract a lot of attention. once you attract a lot of attention, you start attracting law enforcement or neighbors are going to start talking and word gets back to law enforcement. this is a bizarre set of circumstances from a to z. this whole scenario, whether it s a hybrid, radicalization or workplace violence, this whole scenario is very bizarre and i think we re seeing something brand new here. certainly something brand new. art is going to stay with me. next, the male shooter traveled to saudi arabia and pakistan, communicated with terror suspects. did u.s. intelligence meet multiple red flags. and their home was loaded with guns and bomb-making materials. what do we know about another imminent attack. and new details on the massive attack that ended with two dead suspects? 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it s touring across america telling people about idaho potatoes. farmer: let s go boy. again this year the big idaho potato truck is traveling the country spreading the word about heart healthy idaho potatoes and making donations to local charities. excuse me miss, have you seen our truck? you just missed it. ahhh! aw man are you kiddin me? were there key warning signs in the massacre in southern california? they believe syed farook was radicalized. now, we also know this. farook travelled to saudi arabia in 2013 or 2014 which is where he met the woman that became his wife and the partner in the shootings. evan perez broke the news about farook s possible radicalization. what more can you tell us about his background? one of the things that the fbi is doing is looking at the connections that you just spoke about. right now we re told that the people he was in touch with, people who were subjects of fbi investigations really weren t high level people. they were people who were of interest to the fbi. they were not people who would cause the fbi to sort of say we re going to go six degrees of separation to see everybody that that person is talking to. nothing indicates that. and that s one reason that it may not necessarily be a case of missed signals. it may be that this person was so clean and tried to keep themselves so clean to avoid any scrutiny from law enforcement. one thing that we know that the fbi does in these cases is take a step back and say should we have been watching for this person? right. is there anything that indicates that we should have? and is there anything that indicates that, that he should have been on their radar? the people he talked to were at such a low level that no one could have expected them to be watching? right. exactly. that s exactly right. there s way too many people. as you know, there are 900 investigations going on around the country. every state. that was one reason why it s a haystack and people like this will fall through. evan perez, thank you very much. outfront now, i want to go to former ccia bob baer and former assistant investigations for the u.s. marshals art roderick and james fitzgerald. james, do you have sany doubt that this was islamic terrorism? no indications that these people have reached out for workplace violence jihadist training camps or cells. so we do know that they ve reached out for and i have actually visited farook himself other countries and it was possible that he was in a training camp there. we certainly see through his tenicles that he s reached out for people on the list and well known to the fbi. they may not have been big players yet but they are certainly on the score card and it s no doubt that he had some level of radicalization from these people and from visits to the other countries. bob, we know that farook himself travelled to saudi arabia, met his wife there. that was back in 2014, though. and we know he didn t return and immediately start, for example, doing anything obvious, like growing his beard. that happened later. there were no signs from anyone, from his neighbors, his co-workers, guy who sat next to him, people we ve talked to on this show, of him being radicalized. do you think that that trip to saudi arabia was crucial to this attack or not? well, i can speculate but saudi arabia is a mess. when this shooting started and the fact that he had gone to saudi arabia, he met his wife there, been to the rest of it, people came back and said saudi arabia is a recruiting ground for the islamic state for al qaeda. it doesn t mean that he was recruited there but he certainly would have heard arguments that you have to take the jihad to the united states. i mean, that doesn t mean he was sent. i don t mean that at all. he just would have heard this, especially in mecca. the saudis are very upset about what is happening in iraq and syria. he would have heard a lot of this and we don t know about his wife. also, what was she doing in saudi arabia and the fact that they went there, they were looking for their roots and found a purified form of islam. uh-huh. which leads to islam. and somehow they expected those roles and the more i see this, the more i know that indeed is what happened. art, i want to ask you about his childhood. allegations that his mother was beat by his father. his mother set up an online profile for him, enjoyed target practice in the backyard. these are things that seem to fit the profile of other horrific attacks, like even in the newtown shootings. how important are these things? erin, i think that the key part here is even in newtown, there were psychological issues going on here. we don t specifically though that about this individual. i think a lot of people grow up, unfortunately, in this country under that type of parenting and a lot of them don t go out and kill 14 people and wound another 19. so as much as we hear about a horrible childhood we have, i don t think we should be betting on the fact that that s why he went out and did this. to the point you re making, the gunman s older brother was a decorated veteran. he won several medals. including the global counterterrorism medal. how significant is that revelation to you, art? that just goes more to my point that, again, a lot of people grow up in these but they turn out to be fine later on in life. why do they go out and do this, were they radicalized, were they not radicalized. to me, all of this points to radicalization. and james, do you think he should have been on the united states radar? evan is pointing out that they have too many people like this on the radar. are they going to look back and say, this was a mistake? or not? well, i m still in touch with my colleagues in the fbi and they feel to some degree their hands are tied. they are doing the best they can. they realize there s all sorts of political and jurisdictional issues that have to be addressed here but there s a lot that could be done in a case such as this. most likely should have been, whether it s a mistake or not, who knows. i can say this, there s probably out there right now, the fbi is watching. they may do nothing and unfortunately there are people they know nothing about who may strike next. thank you all very much. we re going to talk much more about farook s wife, the other shooter in a moment. and next, the shooter planned a very quick strike and fast getaway. they had at home a bomb-making lab. the big question is, what is the next attack that they were planning? we have more information on that after this break. and the family of one of the shooters speaks out. outfront, next. ..obviously can t how are you gonna hide this? 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reporter: well, the home you use the word astonishing, that they had this incredible arsenal inside the home and certainly helps us understand why the police were being so cautious about entering their home. remember, the process was extremely long. they used robots to go in. they had a reason. look at this list we ve obtained from the police about what they found inside this home. 12 pipe bomb-type devices, bomb materials and tools, 2,000 9 millimeter rounds. 2500 .223 caliber rounds and several hundred long-rifle rounds. that s simply what police found inside the home and then after that shootout between the suv, the two gunmen inside the suv and law enforcement, then when they approach and saw the two bodies, here s what they found on the killers themselves. more than 1400 .223 caliber rounds and more than 200 9 millimeter rounds. not only was there planning for this attack, but when you look at what they found, that s why some experts are saying that they wonder whether this was simply one attack or there might be something further down the line. key yauyung lah, thank you. bobby, let me start with you. we know syed farook may have been radicalized but what about his wife? when police announced that there were two shooters and one of them was a female, pretty much everyone for a moment their jaws dropped. how do you explain her role in this? it s hard to explain currently. i m sure the investigators are looking into her background. it s going to be a little more difficult to determine her role because she lived overseas until recently. it could be that she was the catalyst for the end of game radicalization on his part. he was radicalized over the internet. obviously he was in contact with people over there. they could have been tracking his level of radicalization and insert her into his scenario towards the end game to be kind of a catalyst to set him in motion. and jim, let me ask you, though, in terms of her role, she obviously is crucial to this story in every way. she had a job in saudi arabia. she was a pharmacist. you know, having done reporting there, this is a country that has the lowest rate of female engagement in the country than any other country in the world. her having had a job, at least at the surface level, she would appear far from radicalized. well, i think she was obviously intelligent. she had a job because she rose to the top of the workforce, the female workforce. but i agree with bobby, this could really be a case of romantic radicalization. he was actually targeted by the people who wanted to convert him or push him into radicalization and pushed this woman towards him so that she could push him over the edge and actually complete the job. so it s interesting it s also possible he went there with the specific intent to find a woman like that. right. so it could go either way. the crucial part about her role, they had a new baby, a 6-month new baby. the guy who sat next to him told our kyung lah that they had a baby shower for him, and she s the mother of a 6-month-old. it s unnatural for her to do what she did. what could explain that, to leave a new baby, drop it off with someone else in the morning and then go, knowing that you would at the least never see that baby again? well, i think it does it is very unnatural and it s something that would have taken a tremendous amount of effort to do on her part. that means that the level of her commitment to this cause had to be extremely high. and that s why i believe that she was already radicalized and he, in turn, her. she was able to act calmly in this tactical assault and the shootout with the police. that s the kind of thing that only comes with practice and massive preparation. she was definitely trained and prepared for this kind of event. i think they were going out in a hail of bullets either way. and that was their plan. bobby, how much training do you think she had? to emphasize, when he went and did the attack, when they drove away, he was the one, from what we understand, who was driving. she was in the back seat with an ar-15 engaged in a fire fight with the police. she was. tashfeen malik was in the fire fight. she clearly had advanced training and clearly lots of it. it s going to be mahard to determine that because she was living overseas but my former colleague sent immediate leads to determine her background, her connections. they are currently working very hard to develop a profile of her and to see what training she had, not only for this particular case but, you know, whether she had friends or sisters or people, a common cause with her who have come over on these fiancee visas. i m sure they are tracking that data. obviously her involvement is a game changer in how law enforcement will look at this. could there be something else, anything else that could have he can plained her involvement, something like a postpartum psychosis? postpartum psychosis is internal. the violence goes internally or within the family, the kids are most likely going to be the targets of that or the person suffering from it. so i don t see this as a common case of postpartum psychosis. this is something much more related to extremism. up next, farook s family members said they were as shocked as anyone else by the shootings. next, it was like something out of a horrific movie. heavily armed police battling a married couple. that s next in our report. insur. but the more you learn about your coverage, the more gaps you may find. 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[ gunfire ] you have a shooter in that car. reporter: police zero in on syed farook and tashfeen malik who had just hours before killed 14 people at an office event. this was ten miles from the scene of the mass shooting. a black ford suv drove by slowly at first and then sped away. we are in pursuit of the suspect vehicle eastbound on san bernardino avenue and richardson. we ve got shots fired out the back window. reporter: one shooter fires at police in hot pursuit. the police headed back to san bernardino. all of it playing out on live television. we have units in san bernardino and richardson taking fire. reporter: the suv comes to a stop and a full-scale gun battle breaks out. [ gunfire ] the shooters firing 76 rounds, at least 21 officers return fire, nearly 400 rounds riddled the suv. shots fired! we need a bear cat. we need medical. we have one down outside the car and one down inside the car. rizwan farook gets out of the car but he doesn t get far. malik, her 6-month-old daughter at home with the grandmother, dies in the car. thousands of rounds of ammunition, 12 pipe bombs and what investigators call a bomb lab. with hundreds of tools that could be used to make explosives. and erin, the big question that remains tonight, when did the switch flip? what motivated this young couple in their 20s to carry out mass murder? the man who rented them that townhouse said that they were timid. that s a quote. and said that there was no cause for concern and then this, a mass murder situation. tonight, we still have fbi at the home there going through that homemade bomb lab, seeing if it will lead them to any clues as to why this happened, was it the radicalization that sparked this. what tells them about what sparked all of this tonight. poppy, thank you very much. bob bobby chiccone is back with me. when you look at the massive law enforcement and so fast, what sticks out to you? well, this is the new normal for us on the law enforcement side of it. we train with these people all the time at the state, local and federal levels. we train for these scenarios, both on the response aspects, the forensic aspects, the intelligence aspects and the investigative aspects. and we will continue to be partners side by side with all of our federal, state and local partners when these incidents occur. and ongoing. and i guess the bottom line is, did they do everything they needed to do? they didn t know anything about who this was and within a couple of hours they did kill both suspects. yes. and i think that s the merging of the intelligence community with the law enforcement community at the federal level and things like a joint regional intelligence center where we have our local and state partners with us side by side always 24/7 working these cases. bobby, thank you very much. next, the shooter s brother-in-law speaking out. tonight, a man he knew and why he can t believe what he s done. that s outfront, next. and sanjay gupta with the first responder to the horrific shooting scene. about a biologic. this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira giving me new perspective. doctors have been prescribing humira for ten years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you ve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you ve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don t start humira if you have an infection. talk to your doctor and visit humira.com this is humira at work the markets change, at t. rowe price, our disciplined investment approach remains. we ask questions here. look for risks there. and search for opportunity everywhere. global markets may be uncertain. but you can feel confident in our investment experience. . around the world. call a t. rowe price investment specialist, or your advisor. .and see how we can help you find global opportunity. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. it begins from the the second we re born.er. because, healthier doesn t happen all by itself. it needs to be earned every day. using wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by millions of others. as a health services and innovation company optum powers modern healthcare by connecting every part of it. so while the world keeps searching for healthier we re here to make healthier happen. jusdoes that mean they have toer grow apart from their friends, or from the things they love to do? with right at home, it doesn t. right at home s professional team thoughtfully selects caregivers to help with personal care, housekeeping, meals, and most of all, staying engaged in life. oh, thank you, thank you. you re welcome. are you ready to go? oh, i sure am. we can provide the right care, right at home. tonight, breaking news, pictures of the bombs cbs obtaining photos of the bobs the shooters tried to use. one of them you see here showing a bag of pipe bombs and this one a bag that was at the scene of the attack that was supposed to be detonated using a remote controlled car. officials telling cnn syed farook may have been radicalized. his brother-in-law spoke out about the attacks. i m very sad that people lost their life. i wish to them and, again, i am in shock that something like this could happen. outfront now, a he had looker in the los angeles community was the executive director of the council on american-islamic relations in the u.s. thank you for being with me. you ve met with farook s family. you appeared at a press conference with them. what are they saying to you? like all americans, they are just distraught, they are devastated with the fact that one of their relatives could do that. i mean, the family the spokesperson for the family expressed and conveyed the genuine sentiment of sorrow, of sadness that his brother-in-law could commit such a crime. they, of course, express solidarity, like the rest of muslims and all americans, they stand in solidarity and offer their heartfelt condolences to the families and the loved ones killed as a result of the hateful crime. you re going to be speaking at farook s old mosque tomorrow. what are you going to say? of course, i m going to be there to convey the message that everyone in the community feels this is a crime that is absolutely no justification for such behavior, for such act. regardless of the motive, this is a time of resilience and it s not about muslims mourning alone. it s our time on friday but this is a time where nationally, as a nation, we re mourning for such crimes, whether it s in san bernardino or whether it s in colorado springs or anywhere else. hussam, cnn is reporting that farook may have been radicalized. president obama said after the paris attacks that leaders in the muslim community are not doing enough to stop terrorism. he said, there are some who say we don t believe in violence but are not as willing to challenge some do you feel that he s talking to you, you need to do more than condemn an act like this as a leader in the muslim community? i mean, you have to put things in perspective. there are 1 .6 billion muslims in the world. those who commit such horrendous acts are really a tiny, tiny small minority. no more in percentage than those who commit attacks on the planned parenthood centers and places who definitely do not represent christianity. let s put things in perspective. these are political not religious conflicts, the result of instability in syria and iraq, instability and dictatorships in part of the middle east, this is not a muslim problem. this is a problem for the world and it needs us united, not singling out the victims. most of the victims of terrorism continue to be muslims. so this is a time when we need to stand in solidarity together, address the root causes of terrorism as we need to. in the middle east by making sure we support democracy, freedom against a tax from russia, from isis and others but at this time, time to mourn with the victims. time to offer condolences and certainly make sure that our voices, not just as muslims, as a community we speak against injustice. thanks to you. outfront next as hundreds ran for safety, first responders ran to the danger. sanjay gupta has an exclusive interview with one of those heroes. just look at those two. happy. in love. and saving so much money on their car insurance by switching to geico. well, just look at this setting. do you have the ring? oh, helzberg diamonds. another beautiful setting. i m not crying. i ve just got a bit of sand in my eyes, that s all. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. after a dvt blood clot.mind when i got out of the hospital what about my family? my li l buddy? and what if this happened again? i was given warfarin in the hospital but i wondered if this was the right treatment for me. then my doctor told me about eliquis. eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots and reduces the risk of them happening again. not only does eliquis treat dvt and pe blood clots, but eliquis also had significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. knowing eliquis had both. turned around my thinking. don t stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don t take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. if you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. and it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. eliquis treats dvt & pe blood clots. plus had less major bleeding. both made switching to eliquis right for me. ask your doctor if it s right for you. breaking news, we now know the identities of the 14 people gunned down yesterday in san bernardino. the victims, six women and eight pen between the ages of 26 and 60. among the dead, michael wetzel father of six. in a statement his wife said michael was the most amazing person that she has ever met. and as hundreds of terrified people fled the scene of the attack, first responders ran as they always do towards the danger. our chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta spoke to sole brave people. an e.r. doctor first to arrive on the scene, what did he tell you? reporter: he got there bump the swat team did so he was seeing some other people within that building starting to bring the injured out, you know. what we re hearing erin, a lot of times these doctors have to get into these situations quickly and often times will take care of patients on the scene there. they don t have time sometimes to transport them back to the hospital. so he was taking care of some of the injured there in the field on the scene and as you might imagine, erin, some of the injuries were pretty awful. this was somebody who had spent time in various wars and he was likening it to some of the battling he seen in the past. you also learned something very surprising about one of the doctors you met. reporter: yeah, you know, it s interesting, you know, the whole culture in someways is changed because these doctors often times have to go into these scenes that are still active. they are still dangerous. at the time they are trying to save other people s lives, they themselves may put their lives at risk and they are trying to figure out how to do both roles. this is how one doctor put it. i should be able to defend myself when it s necessary and also have the capabilities to deal with the wounded in the field. reporter: so, you know, they literally in addition to stethoscope and medical equipment, erin, what i m describing is more common but in addition to taking medical equipment, he s also carrying a handgun. he s carrying an assault rifle himself. he goes and trains with the swat team. he s a member of the swat team in this area and he learns how to be able to defend his self-and protect patients in the field. it s a hybrid role emerging as a result of the times in which we live, erin. he s part soldier. he s part doctor. and he often times does both at the same time. sanjay, thank you very much. that s pretty stunning, doctors carrying assault rifles. a lot of people questioning how that happens in this nation. president obama lighting the national christmas tree tonight. it s usually a very happy event but tonight anything but. the president took a moment to reach out to those who lost a loved one in the san bernardino shooting. their loss is our loss, too for we re all one american family. we look out for each other in good times and in bad and they should know that all of us care about them this holiday season. they are in our thoughts, they are in our prayers, and we send them our love. something for everyone to think about, the president at the tree lighting ceremony tonight. thank you for joining us. set your dvr and record outfront and watch the program at any time. our breaking coverage continues right now with ac 360. good evening tonight from san bernardino, california. in just about an hour, a vigil gets underway at the baseball stadium behind me for the 14 men and women murdered at a holiday party by a co-worker and his wife yesterday. we re just now learning their names and some of the victim s stories and will bring those to you tonight. in this stadium they will be honored so were those injured wounded in the attack. there will be no doubt tears in the stadium and we hope at least a small measure of comfort for a community badly in need of it. many people are lined up waiting to get into the stadium. there is no comfort nor rest for anyone in law enforcement or in homeland security tonight. the investigation is moving fast. they are scrambling to figure out what turned them into bomb makers and murders. pipe
msnbc steve kornacki. where is your book? everybody has to come with their book. next year i will hold to you that. and nbc host of casey d.c. . show us, c mon. m msnbc sunday night. you were going to get willie, joe and me a casey d.c. shirt. i was going to where a tank with a jacket over it. where is it? they re in the mail. i will send advocate an e-mail today. a fedex truck went by my house, i watched it ride by. i will put it in the mail after this. you know, we will be hammering that jek for three years, four years, five years down the road. the lightning bolt you will love. i d like to you wear it every day. every morning donny deutsche says coming out with chuck s show, whatever. gets old after four years, he kept going. this is case ki d.c casey d.c. i have to stop you, we have major news. i want to start, because there is so much noise out there every day, we actually may have some news breaking through the clouds, just a sort of a ray arc little bit maybe a little bit of news that isn t involved with russian investigations or tweets. what the president said actually is significant and maybe suggests that hess secretary of state and general mattis and others have been slog behind the skeents, day i scenes, day in, . this could all evaporate when the sun comes out, with a mid-morning tweet. but if we are moving towards a deal that is very significant. it certainly makes the world on edge a little bit calmer. joe, you and i and mika have been talking on this show now for months about the diplomatic strategy that lay behind these comments about little rocketman seeming to take the edge of nuclear war. all that time, there has been an effort to set the table for diplomacy. trump is telling us now the last fork has been laid down. we ll have to see what he s really got. how do you gauge the optimistic behind the scenes from people in the administration and people have been hammering this out do they believe they can get a deal? when we say a deal, i think we should correct that to say the beginning of talks. it will take a long time. can we have a start toward a frame that helps us step back from a missile being launched over japan in weeks? here s the heart of the matter, kim jong-un the non-rational leader of north korea would like to get all the way to demonstrate he could drop a nuclear weapon on any state in marc. that s his goal that will take am year. the u.s. is saying we want to freeze your program right now. we are not insisting you instantly denuclearize, we want you to freeze it. sit dun for talks t. u.s. already laid out many of the positions it will take in those talks. kim has to died he doesn t want that last little bit of achievement before he goes into the talks. we ll see. all right. we will get to remark l rackable news from carter panel from last night i mean seriously, it was far better than any script he red from mad men. we will get there in a second. you don t want to overstate it. you got to believe the virginia race today is as important a race than we seen a year ago when donald trump beat hillary clinton. if the democrats can t when this race with donald trump with record low approval ratings and the gop congress with record low approval ratings in a blue state that hillary clinton won easily, boy, there will be blood on the floor with democrats. how is this race going? yeah. i think so much this is about psychology, it s about the psychology the democratic party. if they re unable to win today. it s also about the psychology of the democratic party coming out what happened a yeemplth here s the situation. we had about a dozen polls taken in the last week in this race in virginia. basically all but one of them have had north and the democrat in the lead. now. it s a small lead. you are looking at a consistent and steady lead. it would be more surprising at this point if gillespie would win than northam, democrats are psychologically how abouted by the last election. i know a lot have all been on republican turf. all these special house elections this year, they have not put a win on the board, they want that win tonight. you can go back, willie, to the 2009 race in massachusetts, replaced ted kennedy and the voters are usual i older, wiseer and more conservative than in special elections, the democrats are going uphill. in the state of virginia, you can look at six of the major ratess over the past four or if cycles. democrats always seem to under perform. you can look at dplespy was supposed to lose big in the senate race, earned up barely losing. can you go down the line in race after race after race, democrats under performed. that s why they re on edge. it s a state barack obama won twice and harrisburg won a year ago. he s the ultimate insider, establishment figure. he ran the rnc. he worked in the george w. bush white house, he ran mitt romney s campaign in 2016. yet he s working on the nflers knowling, he sent a model out four republicans to run using what they think is the best of from ump to get votes, it s maintaining who they are? reporter: it s certainly a test case, willie. it s been the challenge for dplespy. he clearly is a little bit personally comfortable with all of this. vaughan hilliard, our nbc reporter tried to get him to answer questions about the president days ago on the trail. he literally ran from the cameras. he says i m airing all kind of other ads, ads about education. anyone that lives in this area knows you are seeing ads they are are fear mongering. i think one piece of the story as well is the northam campaign. i think there are going to be questions, mainly for democrats if helesss this race. there has been this sense in the ether that that may actual ply a risk. he has not necessarily top in the views of many democrats i ve talked to, they are frustrated with how northam approached the democratic coles in virginia. they need african-american votes. there was a big mistake within they left the african-american governor off a flyer. progressives not necessarily excited. all of these dynamics we saw in 16 are at stake. the democrats, i know you will agree with me, have to get tough. i saw northal pushing back against ed dplespy, saying he is for keeping gang members out of jail, you know, it was factually correct. but, democrats need to come out and say ed gillespie is lying. you know why he s lying? he s a washington insider. he will do average nything to w. now he is telling you i will let gang members wander around your street. let me tell you, if they break the law, they re going to jail. you need to send ed gillespie back to washington. they re always leak that you know, if you look at the campaign ads the democrats got to 11 to roll up their sleeves and fight. i know, it s unbelievable. oh my god, how do you make this race close? i don t know. but we ve fixed it out. so that s a major political story of parties belowing up, not coming back together. that s a major foreign policy story of major diplomacy with north korea. now to this, we follow along. will you need some, a member of president trump another foreign policy advisory committee said he told several trump campaign officials, including members of the inner circle, he was heading to moscow in july of 2016, carter page testified before the house intelligence committee last week, in an exchange with trey gowdy, trey said he e-mailed former trump campaign manager cory lewandowski, current white house communication director hope hicks and j.d. gone, said he was on his way there page also said he told attorney general jeff sessions. again, here s another russian contact that jeff sessions allegedly knew about. and campaign co-chair sam clovis before he left. by the way, gordon told him, don t do it and he went around to figure out a way to get to russia. payment said he told him he could go. he told you in march he did not say page should travel to russia on his own. though he also said he couldn t remember but quote i m very clear about this, i granted nobody permission to do. that page had not provided the e-mails to the house spell jens committee when he testified on thursday but said that he would. the testimonials contradicted page s earlier comment that he only exchanged greetings with russia s deputy prime minister d dvorkorich in a raft raj of problems, if you remember, shortly after returning, he congratulated members-of-a policy team for their quote excellent work on the ukraine amendment. a reference to the trump campaign decision to intervene, water down a proposed amendment the gop s ukraine platform. page told the committee, he was expre expressing what i feel. let s stop right there. david ignacious, despite the fact that carter page is all over the place and many times people are looking at his testimony, his performs art, there are lines out of that testimony that are so damming that actually start to stitch together what was happening and when he guess over there and actually has official meetings with the russians that i think the attorney general knew about and oughts knew about, and then they go to that ukraine amendment, people are starting to suggest perhaps a quid pro quo. you give us dirt on hillary, we ll remove the ukraine amendment from the gop platform. it was bizarre testimony. it sounded as if he was making it up as he went along, one minute he was invoking the fifth. another minute he wasn t. documents kept emerging, oh, i m happy to give you those e-mails and when you add this up, you see now, three strat instances in which trump campaign associates papadopoulos in his plea agreement page now in his descriptions of meeting with the professor, the july famous july 9 meting with don trump jr. with the russian lawyer n. each of those three instances the issue is what are the russians going to do to help the trump campaign? the everyday now is coming from them. and you gen to see something hard. this has been a difficult investigation with so many thing in the air. those are the hard pieces, they show the russians working to supply information to the trump company that will be helpful. and the trump campaign actively seeking contact itself with and help from the cell len. you see when jeff sessions testified three times he was not aware of any russian contacts. he clearly was told about this meeting by carter page and others we have learned about since, did he think it wasn t going to come out, somehow people weren t getting to the bottom of it t. journalists inside those committees looking into it. how can he sit up there saying knowing what he knew, he didn t know of any russian contacts in the campaign, even if they were innocuous, why would you say you didn t know anything, you clearly knew. what happened donald trump and mike pence and jeff session saying that nobody on their campaign talked to rugs. mike pence said we just talk to americans. no, they talked to russians. they talked to russians a lot then they ve spent the last nine months lying no talking with russians. you sorted through seven hours of carter page spilling it in front of the house intel in the. interesting note to president trump, the idea from carter page s point of view, for president trump to go to russia and make a grand speech he said would have been like president obama going to germany in 2008 that would have launched his campaign and presidency on the world. what else jumped out at you as you looked at this testimony? reporter: willie, i think what you were just referring to earlier is kind of the key over arching question here. obviously, we are learning new information about what top trump officials now about russian contacts between people who were working for them inside the organization and russians. the question i think is whether there was intentionally or actual discussion or whether this was a situation where they were kind of accidentally running around with people who had deep russian ties. what i took away from the transcript is, carter page, this wasn t a one off, oh, hey, i took a trip to moscow. he had longstanding deep business ties with people in russia. if you dig down into the details of this transcript. a very odd picture of this man emerges. and he is somebody who went from at the beginning of these investigations, my source were describing him as essentially falling all over himself to tell them everything they knew. it was almost as though they felt they were receiving his resume in the mail. then more information about this steele dossier, including that he met with a top businessman during this trip, had a secret meeting. that still hasn t been corroborated in this transcript. now the committee was pressing him on where are you living at night? he insisted i m not living at a russian s house. they redacted that information. how are you making your money? i m living on my savings. where did that money come from? did it come from russia? there are so many unanswered request es in this transcript. it gave us a window into what this committee is looking into, the questions they are asking i think will yield a lot more reporting in the press over the next few weeks. if you look at testimony before the committee. if you look at all the testimony so far that the information bob mueller is getting, we are getting, it s dribbling out. mueller knows so much more there are all these contacts that first they denied and then they said were incidental contacts. now it s very clear. there is a pattern and it is an expansive pat were and time and time again, these key members have lied about their contacts, including the president of the united states, who drafted up a statement on air force one, while his lawyers were stranded on the ground that was a grand lie that may have involved one of the most important meetings. what we are seeing i think is the way in which russian trade craft works. somebody is initially contacted by a professor. you know somebody they would get to know in their normal point of business. that s what carter page says, then that professor is able introduce them to a senior fimpblt page said i wasn t meeting anybody than on the street. it turned out he was meeting the deputy prime minister and passing back to the campaign the words from this senior official how russia wanted to work with the new team. so you see how they were building their relationship with a lot of anticipation things will be different with trump. we now see long after how a prosecutor builds his case, how he starts with these little people. who had ever heard of jp morgan papadopoulos before and carter page. what was he doing there? you build these structures of influence brick by brick, board by board, that s what we re watching the prosecutors explain to us, eventually it leads up to the senior people. we re not there yet. which is why this is such a food investigation. wow. you got to go back and look at points in time if you want to understand how far we ve gone, how far down the road we ve moved, mika, if you go back, for instance, to the washington post editorial meeting donald trump had when he spoke about the size of his hands or a great deal of the time. when the washington post finally got him to talk about foreign policy, the first two people he named were carter page and papadopoulos. so go back. by the way, that wasn t in june of 2015. that was after the guy was on his way to winning, i think it was may or june. it was only then getting this list together, people nobody had ever heard of from those were his first to people and they already had contacts with russia. we will go back in time and look at the other people that former presidents have named at the top of their foreign policy people. those people women are they? those two names were given to the washington post. they had already met with mugs agents. that s incredible. still ahead on morning ving jo he would name another agent paul manafort in the summer of 2016. incredible. that s what we know. he was flying around the country with michael flynn. psychologically foley calm. you saw a member of the senate intelligence, senator opening cuss king and jim himes on the house intel committee which questioned carter page and david ignacious is going to tell us what is going on in saudi arabia. we will explain, just ahead. you are watching morning joe. we ll be right back. zplmpblths . president trump is responding to the rapid moving tweets in saudi arabia. he endorsed the crown britain tweeting quote i have great confidence in king salman and the crown prince of saudi arabia and they know exactly what they are doing. some of those they are harshly treating have been milking their country for years. since the millingman. american officials say as many as 500 people have been arrested in the crackdown, including 11 princes, trump s tweets come as the situation between saudi arabia and neighboring countries have rapidly deteriorated. saudi arabia is now accusing iran of conducting an act of war after a ballistic missile was fired from yemen towards riyadh s airport over the weekend. the missile was intercepted and destroyed. the saudi foreign minster says the missile was smuggled into yemen by iran and the spokeman says the missile could not have been fired without iranian support, adding saudi arabia will quote directly respond to iran in the appropriate time and manner. let s get david ignacious there i m boring you. no, let s get to saudi arabia. what s happening in saudi arabia? we are watching a powerful, power-hungry current prince of saudi arabia mohammed salman shatter the way saudi arabia has been governed and install this new system. saudi arabia was a country governed by the consensus of the princes. the princes would meet, it would take forever, it infuriated outsiders, he s gone boom with a meat cleaver. also, religious hard liners have been put on notice the clerics have been put on notice, your ways are going to change. he began reducing the power of the religious police about six months ago. that was a significant move. he said women will drive in this country. his bet, joe, is young sud days sick of living in this conservative society will say, you know this guy may be impulsive, by golly, this is a new country. we re excited about being in it. i think the danger for him is he is so ambitious that he is fighting more wars than he can win. somebody suggested yesterday, he was way over from if you look at the people he has arrested. these are some of the most prominent business leaders in the country. some of them are you grow older, they re your eyes, of course they have him. some of them are people who have been a part of the story of the king s mod werization, he has to be careful not to isolate himself. he s got now as enemies, senior princes, you know, second, become nairs running saudi companies and finally some of the religious leadership that doesn t like what he s doing. you get too many enemies, i don t know how many u how many young people say are you great. you have a problem. i d love to see saudi arabia more modern, a less corrupt place. the things he talks about are the right things. everybody should understand that. i just don t want him to get into a situation where he becomes an autocrat, an authoritarian king, striking at everybody, because i think that will hurt him. there so saudi arabia intercepted the missile that was coming from yemen. saudi arabia says it was an iranian missile. it plams hezbollah for this as an active war for iran war. are the implications for the united states as a close allie of saudi arabia saying, iran has declared war on the kingdom of saudi arabia? willie, a head strong young king who wants this sense of accomplishment with iran to consolidate his power internally is pushing us towards greater confrontation. we need the make sure we are in control of that caselation process, not him. i worry most what happens next for lebanon. if the saudis cut off lebanon, financially. they ve stayed out of the syria civil war. hasn t fallen apart as predicted. lebanon could go over the lip of the waterfall, too. that would be unfortunate. that s something where u.s. power should be saying, slow down, we like what you are doing. slow down. let s turn back to today s governor s races in virginia. also the one in new jersey, joining us now, pulitzer prize columnist and associate editor eugene robinson, we have been talking about virginia this morning, how close it has become, if you look at the polls, it s two, three, four points a. marginal lead for the democrat ralph northam there. what would a loss by the democrat or a two or three-point win in a state that barack obama won twice, hillary clinton won a year ago, mean to democrats, what would it mean to donald trump? well, a two or three-point win would be a when. democrats would take that and i think i do believe the polls in. have a. it s good. i think that s the most likely outcome is that democrats, that northam pulse this out. it can be five votes. democrats want to win. need a win and if they get one, i think they ll be happy. if they don t get a win, it will be, you know, a real proceed to the democratic party. and there will be talk about what kind of candidate northam was and how awful and negative the campaign was and by the way, everybody in the washington, d.c. tv market will be really flood that this race is over, because the intelligence and advertising has been atrocious and ugly and you feel, you know, it s like walking through a sewer. but a loss would be a blow. a real proceed to the democratic party that expects and needs to win this race. you know. incredible. steve kornacki, i second what gene said a. win is a win. if you win by one 1r0e9. that itself a win. donald trump lost by over 3 million votes. he wasn t. when you start talking about margins, oh, but we only lost losers talk about margins, a win is a win is a win. how important is this race to democrats as they move towards 2018? i agree we that, too. i think there is a tendency, virginia is definitely trending from red to blue. we are watching that play out. there is a tendency to state how blue it has become. hillary clinton won with a virginian on the ticket t. margin was six points. 2014, mark warner was reelected by a fraction-of-a point. this is still a competitive state. by the way, when the polls show warper up seven, nine points. when you look at this issue of polling and they will be off today and that s every democrat s worst nightmare in 2014, there weren t that many polls taken overall, there was an assumption mark warner will win. we had a dozen in the last week. this would be a case we had all the polling autopsies after last november what went wrong? you can isolate last november to a few of the states in the rust belt, but boy if you were to wake up tomorrow and ed gillespie is the governor elected of virginia that is a different kind of polling failure. there will be different kind of questions. one thing to watch for too as we rauch whwatch the returns, q common in virginia the democratic vote to come in fairly late. gillespie could appear to be ahead for a good part of the evening and still lose this race. so as you watch the rurps, keep that in mind rurps, keowe re that in mind. democrats stay on the ledge in the results come in. democrats break late in more than virginia. new jersey. this takes on iyad allawi significance because bob menendez trial is going to jury and the next governor is going to decide who the next senator may be depending on what this jury says in new jersey. that s an interesting sneer, the lt. gov. of the republicans, she s running, she has three things going against her. they look insurmountable. eighth blue state, donald trump s approval rating is 30, 35% in new jersey. so the good news for democrats they re not worried about losing this race. the bad news is they ve had this date circled on this colin far for a long time. chris christie won two times and they looked at the poll numbers, not only will we win? we will get swept into every office in this state. they seen the polls tighten. now there is a fear this might come down to single digits. that s a good problem to have. in terms of menendez, if he gets convicted, first of all he will appeal. we know from a former virginia governor, there is a precedent they could succeed. he is up for re-election next year, if he is convicted, a, do democrats in the senate stand behind him while he afeels? that could play out for months? b, does hemenendez, does he pus forward and try to run for re-election in 2018 in that s the question. that s what will put democrats in a real jam. do they stand behind him then or move against him? coming up, for more than a decade, examiners secretary wilbur ross has been telling reques requests forbe s magazine he is a billionaire. it seems that might not be true. we will follow the money next on morning joe.. i don t know if willie told you, he is a billionaire. it s probably in there. should have told you earlier. say it, envision it. be it. oh, like trump, it s the trump way. last month, we told you about forbe s looking into commerce secretary wilbur ross quiet transfer of assets after the election. he left more than 2 billion office transfer disclosure. it raised questions whether or not he violated federal rules or created conflicts of interest. now forbe s is back with a new report about his missing billions t. bottom line, that money never existed. and the commerce secretary has apparently been lying about his net worth for years. once again the author, so let me ask, how many of these guys and i m sure it s giets, mainly guys, make light of you guys. definitely guys. about how much money they re worth there you got to assume 80 or 90% of the people we talk to are pushing us up or down. it s our job to see how they have to push and go the other way. maybe 20% are honest. this, though, an egeneralious case. so he s telling you guys for years he s worth how much, 2, 3 billion? it starts in 2004. we call him up and say it looks like you are worth a billion dollars. he says, that s fine. puts us on. he sends us lists of the company his firm has inappropriate vested in and their values as if they re all his own money, it s not. it s outside inappropriate advisors. he apparently starts making up numbers about what the assets are and sending those over. but maybe there is so many numbers involved, his conflict is a little off. is that possible? it is complicated. i ll give him that. we talked with ten people who used to work with him. the resounding explanation was wilbur ross is not an honest guy. this fit not only what he has been doing with forbe s for years and what he has been doing in other aspects for years. i go es the motive here, is this ego, he wants people to think he s rich. does this have a business benefit if he s seen as having more assets? it s both. but what s interesting here is if you are perceived to be rich and you are an investment manager, you go out and raise money. if you go out and raise money and say, hey, i m worth there are 3 billion. are you more likely to inappropriate vest with a buy the that s worth $300 million? they re both wore atmosphere lot of money. we are able turn fake numbers into real assets. so, dan, you write about a missing $2 million. wilbur ross is missing $2 billion. what if that $2 billion and why is it significant? the $2 billion is the discrepancy between what he told us previously and what is listed on his disclosure. so when we reached out, we said, hey, can you explain to us what s gentleman on? that was a number that cam from him. the original story was based on an interview with him. he said the reason there was that discrep paeps, that theft $2 billion off his disclosure report. is there a threat to his position or is this sort of interesting and he s a guy that inflated his own net worth, it doesn t matter ego. i think it s more than a trivial lynn to a magazine thing. as you pointed out, there are real business implications here bharks is more troubling, there is a harmer pattern that seems to reflect. this is a buy the in ongoing lawsuits with two of his former top people in his firm. obviously, can you tell by the number of people we talked to, there are plenty of people that used to work with him, that had grievances both in the firm and on their way out. so it seems like it just is another example of, ap overall pattern of dishonesty. david ignacious, this having been a good week about wilbur ross. regarding ties to putp s circle? wilbur ross is one of the most interesting peep. another examining of secret networks that accounts in the care beep, many of them. what s alleged in these papers is ross had substantial efforts, investments in a company doing transports of energy, natural gas with people close to putin and did not disclose those investments. is there up with of those, a putin son if law? there was a putin direct relative a part of this group. what s astonishing, apart from the amounts of money, which were substantial. there was no discussion of this direct link, it seems, to somebody that wilbur ross, the secretary of commerce would be in direct, important negotiation with. i was, it takes a lot to shop these days. i was disclosed what he left off the disclosure report. thank you once again. thank you. next month he s gentleman to come back and find that $2 billion. it s somewhere. we thought about it. coming up, this is video from president trump, moments ago, toasting the state dinner in seoul, calming south korea quote a loyal allie. we also have his message to the north amid the current nuclear standoff. that s straight ahead, morning joe is coming right back. i m still not sure if the election were tomorrow and went up against unnamed democrat, we wouldn t have look at virginia. like virginia. i m not so sure he s not exactly where he was in june of 2016. and once donald trump versus unnamed democratic candidate, he s got a 50/50 shot of winning, and because if it were so bad, democrats would be winning by 10 points in virginia right now. well, look, you can t beat somebody with nobody. right? so as long as you re running unnamed democrat against donald trump, yeah, it would certainly be a dog fight. so the question in terms of reelection is who emerges to carry the democratic banner, and does the party unite with enthusiasm about around that person, and with all its constituencies enthusiastic and ready to come out to vote? i find that poll really fascinating, because i think what you see is the people people who voted for obama and then for trump, which seems like quite a contradiction, right, but i think those are people who in both elections were looking for something new, something different. remember barack obama, there are no red states, there are no blue states, there are the united states of america. he was not a traditional politician in his campaign, and i think there are just a lot of people looking for that, and some of those people thought they saw that in donald trump. the people who thought they saw that, i think, are the ones who are falling off, and that hard core 32% is still with trump. yes. steve, it s always important to remember when we look at the polls where donald trump s at 35% or 5636 36%, that s where he was when he got the nomination. it s so hard. my biggest question when i look at the polls, and this is a question. i don t have the answer. i think we re almost living through many things right now. one thing is a political science experiment. my question when i look at the polls of the approval rating at 35%, the temptation and what we ve always done in the past is say 35% now approval rating. you got 46 % in the election. therefore, he s lost 11%. they ve turned against him. the problem is when you asked people what kind of a president he would be, they said he would be incompetent and untrustworthy. he had lower scores on every critical measure of a president s performance than hillary clinton, and he won. that means people who thought he would be a bad president voted for him. it remind me of the simpson when homer was fired. he slept on the job and stole from me. there goes the best employee i ever had. well, it s an interesting question of how long is the leash. maybe they were voting against hillary clinton and willing to blow up the system, but they did want their lives to get better. they wanted obamacare repealed and ri plaeplaced. steve, you have a new place this morning. in it steve argues we may need a different framework for understanding trump s presidency by culture. that gets to what i was talking act. it s an open question. what were people voting on last year and looking for? i think the traditionally we understand president through legislation through the tax cuts or health care. this is a president who hasn t himself seemed that interested in it. he seems interested in culture war issues. the nfl, it has no legislative component. this is not something going through congress, but it engages not just the political sector but all of culture in a heated way, in a divisive way. i wonder if that creates the space i m thinking about here where people who don t like donald trump on the traditional measures rally around him because there s just this cultural divide down the middle of the country. all right. thank you for being on, gene. coming up, we knew about trump foreign policy adviser carter page s trip to moscow during the campaign. what we didn t know until now is that he told several campaign officials before he left. we ll discuss what it means for the mueller investigation with lawrence o donnell. plus the pentagon launches an investigation on how the air force failed to report a domestic violence conviction that should have prevented him from buying weapons. we ll talk about it. we re back in a moment. when i first got on ancestry i was really surprised that i wasn t finding all of these germans in my tree. i decided to have my dna tested through ancestry dna. the big surprise was we re not german at all. 52% of my dna comes from scotland and ireland. so, i traded in my lederhosen for a kilt. ancestry has many paths to discovering your story. get started for free at ancestry.com. we make sure you re in the loop at every step from the moment you decide to move your money to the instant your new retirement account is funded. because when you know where you stand, things are just clearer. - a little bit o soul, yeah because when you know where you stand, having mplaque psoriasise is not always easy. it s a long-distance run. and you have the determination to keep going. humira has a proven track record of being prescribed for nearly 10 years. humira works inside the body to target and help block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms. in clinical trials, most adults taking humira were clear or almost clear and many saw 75% and even 90% clearance in just four months. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal, infections and cancers, including lymphoma have happened as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you ve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you ve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms, or sores. don t start humira if you have an infection. join over 250,000 people who have chosen humira. ask about the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists. humira & go. you only earn double withmiles when you buy stuffds, from that airline. is this where you typically shop? is this where anyone typically shops? it s time to switch to the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, everywhere, every day. not just airline purchases. seriously. double miles. everywhere! what s in your wallet? were you guys on e-mail chains together, you and papadopoulos? there s a lot of e-mails all over the place when you re in a campaign. yes or no. were you in e-mail chains with papadopoulos? probably a few. were you in e-mail chains with him about russia? it may have come up with from time to time. you travel over the sum tore moscow. are you the person they re talking act? i don t think so, and if you listen to the audio of the transcripts of everything i said, i was always there just as a private citizen. i ve spoken at universities in moscow and russia and asia and europe. many times. it s separate from the campaign. all right. that s the art of having a conversation with carter page. welcome back to morning joe. it s tuesday, november 7th. with us, we have associate editor for the associated press, david ignatius. and i m loving this. we re going to be talking about makes a great gift. i m going to have you sign this. that was funny. also the rage, steve cover knack can i. he did not bring a book. also kasie dc. also joining the conversation, the also mark us o donnell, he s out with a new book lawrence o donnell. makes a great gift. we re supposed to get to this in a moment. this is one of the it is one of the most divisive years. every time students talk about how this is the worst it s ever been, mika and i were at a harvard event the other night we said no, actually, in 1968 the year began with the soviets rolling tanks into czechoslovakia. then you had the assassination of martin luther king and then bobby, chicago on fire, the protests. then you have an extraordinary i mean, the backdrop. i mean, mexico city 1968, you had the protests there. it was just i was a young guy, but i could even look into my parent s and grandparent s eyes, they were scared as hell. it was like the world was coming apart, and yet an extraordinary campaign played out amidst the backdrop of perhaps the most chaotic year in america since 186. yes. and every one of the things you mentioned happening in every other presidential campaign would have been the biggest thing that happened in that presidential campaign. and they were happening monthly at this point. and we saw a realignment of the parties that began there and has become permanent. literally the last liberal st d standing on a republican convention state, john lindsey, who was humiliated, forced to second the nomination offing a knew for vice president. and then you see this insurgent left of the democratic party, mccarthy from out of nowhere, decides to challenge a sitting incumbent for the president. it s never been done. that set up the lane that s existed since which bernie sanders used. which is insurgent left against the overwhelmingly establishment. on the republican side, you had trump democrats now. they were called reagan democrats before. but you had so many yanked from the democratic party by none other george wallace who posed a huge challenge to richard nixon, because they were after bobby s death. they went to wallace, and nixon couldn t get them from there, but that, of course, set up republican politics from 1968 to today where a republican candidate who is a creature of washington d.c. is finishing his campaign with confederate statues. and george wallace s campaign told me he was hearing wallace. it was all the same stuff including this unique feature of those two campaigns that no other campaign has decided to use, which is to use the protester in the audience to show how tough the candidate is. we always saw trump slam down the protesters. i d like to punch him in the mouth. that s straight from wallace. the most extraordinary flip was during the debates when he would be booed by all the republicans in the audience, and he would turn that into an advantage. yes. yes. and it s you insiders. and collusion, anyone? we now have it absolutely do you wanted that richard nixon was in direct communication through different channels to the south vietnamese government saying don t cooperate with lbg. lbg was moving toward a peace process in paris. nixon needed the war to be going and needed the country to see no progress on the war on election day. he got that by getting the south vietnamese to not negotiate in paris and that was an absolute case of collusion. by the way, i overlooked when i was listening to the events, david,y think it was march 30th, lbj announced he s not going to run for reelection, despite he won by one of the largest landslides four years earlier. the country felt like it was pulling apart. i remember as an 18-year-old college student, i thought what on earth is happening to the country? but there was an idealism. it feels that way sometimes these days. there was an idealism back then that you could make something different which every student i know felt, and that crazy year, we can do something different. speaking of crazy, let s get to the top story this morning. a member of the foreign policy advisory committee said he told several trump campaign officials including members of the president s inner circle he was heading to moscow in july of 2016. carter page testified before the house intelligence committee last week, and in exchange with republican congressman tray goud di, page said he e-mailed corey lewandowski, current white house communications director, hope hicks, campaign foreign policy adviser, j.d. gordan, that he was on his way to moscow. page also said he told the attorney general jeff sessions and campaign co-share sam clove us before he left. he said corey lewandowski told him he could go, but the trip was not associated with the campaign. lewandowski said he didn t say that, but he said he couldn t remember, i granted nobody permission to do that. we talked about jeff sessions before. here s a guy that said no contact with russia, nobody in our campaign has had any contact with russia. he said, in fact, i m i consider myself to be part of the campaign. i ve never had any contact with russia. he had to rescind that several times as to himself. here we have in the past week information that s now come out that the two top people that donald trump named as his foreign policy advisers to the washington post editorial board in late spring 2016 at the heart of the campaign after he locked up the rnc nomination, that he had information that both of them were going to russia. the attorney general of the united states knew that donald trump at the time top two foreign policy advisers had told him directly they were going to russia. what s disturbing is that those contacts weren t disclosed, but to me even more disturbing is that as we learn about the visits, in each of the key contacts, papadopoulos, page, manafort and the group donald trump junior, there was an effort to get from russia, dirt about hillary clinton, to get russian help in this political campaign. that s the part that s coming into sharper focus. and with this information from last night that we get from the testimony, it looks like for possibly a quid pro quo. you changed the language in the gop platform. we get you dirt on hillary. you know how things come into focus and it takes a while when you got the binoculars. the two lenses aren t quite right. it finally begins to come into focus. do you know who probably already has it in focus? mueller. well. we re learning what a good prosecuter mueller is. i ve heard many times people say this guy s the best. he sets up the investigation carefully, knows the pressure points and does it. we re watching that happen. even based on what we know with each passing day this looks like t getting further and further away from the trump campaign. when people come out saying they had no knowledge being proouen as a liar saying they didn t know somebody, i didn t have a meeting with a russian, yes, you said, senator sessions with kislyak a couple of times. carter page let you know he was traveling to russia. don junior, it was a meeting about adoption. no, actually, it was to float dirt about hillary clinton. the question i asked last hour, i ll ask again, is it simple arrogance, or how did they think they were going to get away with it in a world where journalists are looking into everything and intel committees are looking into everything, where bob mueller is looking into everything. how could you testify before congress about things you knew not to be true. most of what i ve seen has been a careful threading to the needle. jeff sessions was asked publicly questions like did you know of any contact with the russians. his answer would be, i don t know of any contacts with the russians about interfering with the election. wait. that s a little bit more than what was in the question what was more basic. this carter page information is actually the one where i don t see how jeff sessions previous answers on this thread this particular needle. this is the one thing where if he was being very careful about those words, he wasn t being quite careful enough. kasie, democrats were already upset about jeff sessions testimony before the committee believing that he had not been truthful. how does the information in the past several days from carter page and papadopoulos, how does that increase the pressure on the attorney general? i think it adds to it s another piece of the same story we ve been hearing over and over again. i think that point is well taken here. and i do think that jeff sessions is under more pressure than we maybe continually focus on. i mean, he has on the one hand people have jumped to his defense because the president had seemed to potentially threaten to fire him in the context of all of this. so i think the jeopardy that he is now in as these details kind of trickle out, it s possible we re understating it. the testimony also contradicted page s earlier comment that he only exchanged greetings with russia s deputy prime minister. in an e-mail sent after the trip he expressed strong support for mr. trump and a desire to work together toward devising better solutions for a vast range of current international okay. so a vast range. what exactly green teas. it s more than that. and are there any other country that discussions like this are happening? no. absolutely not. further more, shortly after returning, page congratulated members of the trump foreign policy team on july 14th, 2016,. further, quote, excellent work on the ukraine amendment. a reference to the trump campaign s decision to intervene to water down a proposed amendment to the gop s ukraine platform. page told the committee he was, quote, just expressing what i feel. this guy. i mean chris hayes s co-host is in trouble. i know. seriously. chris hayes, you re going to be on your own. page also it seems like he s enjoying being on chris s show and just spouting off with wild abandon. and nobody else and a slight smile on his face. that s what i m struck by when the revelations come on. every time he s been sitting there on chris s show, he knows this stuff is in his e-mail. does he? he has to know this stuff was in his e-mail. why is he so happy about it? this is the inexplicable part. what s up with him? he is winging it. steve the moment just ended when he you can t wing it the way he did before that committee. you re looking to me? yes. explain. here s what i can explain. i was as shocked or surprised or caught off guard as i think everybody at the table was a few weeks ago when bob mueller introduced us to the name of george papadopoulos and the fact there was a plea agreement and all this stuff was happening. that was a reminder to me that there is so much more going on behind the scenes in this investigation with bob mule who are probably has a lot more dots connected than we can do with the information out there. there s more going on and there s no way to know what it is until he tells us. let s go back to playing with fire. the transformation of american politics. i think one of the more distressing transformations was when bobby kennedy was assassinated, the lingering heart breaking image with people saluting on the sides of the tracks. whites on one side of the tracks. blacks on the other side of the tracks. and there was an image in the book about bobby s campaign that as the train moved on, the whites turned around, went back to their homes. african americans turned around and went back to their homes. and that author correctly said no politician since bobby s death on june 6th, 1968, has brought working class whites and blacks back together like they were that day. i think bill clinton came close. i think barack obama came close to that. but what s easy to miss in all of that, especially in the aftermath of the assassination, is just how much the kennedys, as they were called, were hated, and hated in the south in particular after steam rolling george wallace to integrate university of alabama, sending the deputy attorney general down there. there are sections of the country that were very pro kennedy, but he had just lost just almost a week earlier. had just lost the first election a kennedy had ever lost, the oregon primary, and he went in there and lost to mccarthy. then came down to california a week later and won, and that should have solidified a coalition between mccarthy and robert kennedy for robert kennedy to go forward and get the nomination. but it was going to be very, very difficult for bobby kennedy to wrestle that nomination away from humphrey because of the amount of enemies bobby kennedy had within the democratic party. let s talk about that relationship. one of the more fascinating and sad relationships. mccarthy hated bobby. bobby hated mccarthy. they went after each other, and you would think i would say my impression is mccarthy did hate bobby, and bobby was perplexed by mccarthy and didn t really have the energy to hate him. okay. but after teddy was the peacemaker between them. after bobby was assassinated, you would think mccarthy would have stepped forward and occupied that space and don t better, but by all accounts i ve read, it was a broken man after the assassination. yes. he was lost. he felt horrible about some of the things he d said about bobby during the campaign, and it really stopped his life completely. no one knew how to campaign, first. there was just an assassination in the middle of the campaign. all campaigns had to suspend. hubert humphrey couldn t get started publicly because of this. mccarthy was thrown for a loop. the phrase midlife crisis had not been publicly coined, but you watch a midlife crisis the mccarthy during that campaign starting really when bobby entered it, because he didn t know how to deal with that, and then to his personal, i think, shock, it was even more difficult for him when bobby was out. he was completely lost. the country today is obviously divided culturally and politically. there have been comparisons to 2016, 2017 and 1968. do you see parallels not in the way the race was run. in the way our culture sits right now? the biggest difference between now and 1968 is when david at 18 years old had something in his pocket that could get him killed at any moment. and he had to have it in his pocket by the law, his draft card. so the entire male population of the country, 18 and older was threatened by this. that meant your boyfriend was threatened. your brother was threatened, your son, your grandson. there was no one who wasn t threatened. i went to my first vietnam funeral in 1968, my cousin johnny got killed there in 90 days trying to follow in his father s footsteps. it s something today people won t realize. i was very young, but i sort of started being conscience of things during vietnam. we all knew. everybody knew somebody that went to vietnam and got killed. yeah. it was not unusual. now if you went up and tried to find someone who has been to a military funeral in the last 17 years, it s hard to find. the numbers are much lower than 16,000 just in 1968 alone. 16,000 military funerals in the united states. a total of 6,000, 6,500 in the last few years in iraq and afghanistan. you see with a volunteer army, this is not equally distributed. when you look back at this, do you think our country is ever fully healed itself from this year of division? no. because this is where the divisions got locked into cement. for example, the beginning of 1968, if you say to me, you re a democrat, i don t know if you re a liberal or conservative. if you say you re a republican, i don t know if you re a liberal or conservative. one of the front runners was a liberal, george romney. that was the last time anybody with the word liberal was even thinking about a republican presidential nomination. so once we kind of removed that possibility of common ground of there are no liberal republicans, there are no conservative democrats, then when i hear that you re a democrat, i know that you re a liberal, and i don t like liberals, and that s gotten worse every day since 1968. you talk about steve. he talks about those divisions. i remember in 1994 didn t have money, so i knocked on a lot of doors and i told this store before, but it s so relevant here. after my first day of knocking on doors, my parents and i go, and i said i found out after the third door that you re either on the side of john wayne or jane fonda. i was serious. here s how sad it is. you re right. we re still stuck in cement. that was a product of 1968. i found that after knocking on three doors in 1994, and it s even more true today. and another this is in the book too, i think chicago and the chaos at the convention, but the media s role in this, dan rather famously on cbs at the 68 convention, he gets beat up. police are there and all the accusations against them in the media became a big part of that. lawrence o donnell, thank you so much. thank you very much. amazing. we ll see you tonight on the last word at 10:00 eastern time on msnbc. we posted an excerpt from your book playing with fire on our website. we re going to give equal time to the quantum spy. this does not seem fair, david. it does make a great gift. it is it s set in the present future. we re not going to do it this block. i m just telling you, we re going to do a make good, because we have to talk about the quantum spy . absolutely. they both make a great gift. now available at your local independent bookstore. still ahead on morning joe. before he met with the house, carter page sat down with investigators from the senate intel committee last month for five hours. that must have been fun. we ll compare notes with that committee member next on morning joe. bp uses flir cameras - a new thermal imagining technology - to inspect difficult-to-reach pipelines, so we can detect leaks before humans can see them. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. we make sure you re in the loop at every step from the moment you decide to move your money to the instant your new retirement account is funded. because when you know where you stand, things are just clearer. - a little bit o soul, yeah because when you know where you stand, accused of obstructing justice to theat the fbinuclear war, and of violating the constitution by taking money from foreign governments and threatening to shut down news organizations that report the truth. if that isn t a case for impeaching and removing a dangerous president, then what has our government become? i m tom steyer, and like you, i m a citizen who knows it s up to us to do something. it s why i m funding this effort to raise our voices together and demand that elected officials take a stand on impeachment. a republican congress once impeached a president for far less. yet today people in congress and his own administration know that this president is a clear and present danger who s mentally unstable and armed with nuclear weapons. and they do nothing. join us and tell your member of congress that they have a moral responsibility to stop doing what s political and start doing what s right. our country depends on it. looking for a hotel that fits. whoooo. .your budget? tripadvisor now searches over. .200 sites to find you the. .hotel you want at the lowest price. grazi, gino! find a price that fits. tripadvisor. here s the story of green mountain coffee roasters sumatra reserve. let s go to sumatra. the coffee here is amazing. because the volcanic soil is amazing. so we give farmers like win more plants. to grow more delicious coffee. which helps provide for win s family. all, for a smoother tasting cup of coffee. green mountain coffee roasters. ( ) more people shop online for the holidays than ever before. (clapping) and the united states postal service delivers more of those purchases to homes than anyone else in the country. ( ) because we know, even the smallest things are sometimes the biggest. i think we re showing great strength. i think they you said we have unparallel strength. there has never been strength like it. you know we sent three of the largest aircraft carriers in the world and they re right now positioned. we have a nuclear submarine also positioned. we have many things happening that we hope, we hope, in fact, i ll go a step further. we hope to good god we never have to use. with that being said, i really believe that it makes sense for north korea to come to the table and to make a deal that s good for the people of north korea and the people of the world. i do see the certain movement, yes. but let s see what happens. that was the president yesterday traveling abroad. it s his trip continues to asia, five countries there. joining us now from capitol hill, a member of the armed services and intelligence committees independent senator angus king. thank you for being with us. you sit on armed services. do you share the president s optimism that there s some kind of a deal on the horizon that would perhaps scale back north korea s nuclear program? well, i don t know what he knows in terms of the imminence of any kind of discussions. i think we re not necessarily close to a deal. what i hope we re close to is talking, so some discussions, some kind of effort toward resolution, because a military action, we ve heard all kinds of data in the last few weeks about how difficult that would be, and i think he s playing it tough, and indicating to them there will be consequences if they do something aggressive toward us, but and the other piece this has to involve is china. china is the only country that really has any true power over north korea. so hopefully what we re seeing is the beginning of the dance of diplomacy of getting to the point where there are some discussions, and a freeze in their program at the current time and then talking about denuclearization, and we don t know what that means for the rest of the peninsula, but i m re reminded of the cuban missile crisis where an agreement not to invade, was the key to the deal to get the russian missiles out of cuba. do you believe the discussions have begun to take place? in other words, is there progress, and would you concede the president s approach has maybe made the progress, tough public talk and then working behind the scenes to get from chie no na to north korea? i think that s the right path. and the problem is, and the difficulty is if you re indicating strength and you re talking act resolve and nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers, at what point is that misunderstood on the north korean side as an imminent threat? that s the danger of this game. but i do think you ve got to demonstrate to the north koreans that they re facing overwhelming strength as the president said, and that it s in their interest to try to make some kind of discussion. ultimately, the reason the north koreans have wanted to develop nuclear weapons is as a kind of insurance policy for kim jong-un to keep his job. and to the extent we can transfer that fear, that par know know ya, that s the ultimate end. the president is in a delicate situation. he has to demonstrate strength and also have rex tillerson or others involved in some discussions. that s where it has to go, and i think it has to start in china. david ? senator king, you ve been a careful observer of the investigation of russia, russia s activity during our campaign. i m curious what you made of carter page s testimony that was released yesterday before the house committee, and in particular, weather you re beginning to see a pattern of trump campaign officials having conversations with the russians that look an awful lot like we ll give you this piece of information hoping for bter registrations down the road. did you have any of that feeling as you looked at the transcript? it s a similar kind of feeling you have this papadopoulos, and i think you ve talked about this morning the ukrainian amendment, if you will, and the republican party platform. the june 9th meeting with donald trump junior and the higher people in the campaign. there clearly were these kind of discussions. i think one of the disturbing things is the fact of these kind of contact and discussions and trips have had to be dragged out. they weren t volunteered. they weren t brought forth promptly. and that raises questions if they weren t telling us why is that? but i ve been thinking about this. this is a tortoise and a hare kind of thing. you re rushing and wanting to get to conclusions. we re the tortoise. we re interviewing 100 witnesses and working slowly, director mueller is working slowly bit by bit, and that s the way an investigation like this works. compare it with water gate where you had four guys in a two-hour event. we re talking about something that stretched over 18 months according to the wall street journal, it may have gone back to 2015 when the russians started tweeting on behalf of donald trump, and it s a long process. hundreds, perhaps thousands of people involved. and another country. and so it s complex and slow, and i know it s frustrating for us and for the american people, but that s the way these things have to proceed. senator, on another topic, we re learning new information about sunday s massacre in a small town church in texas that killed 26 people, injure 20d more. the gunman may have been targeting his mobile who attends that church but was not at the service when the man opened fire sunday morning. meanwhile the military is investigating how the air force failed to enter the gunman s domestic violence into a federal database. that would have prevented him from owning a gun. we re also learning more about the extent of the violence. according to air force records while stationed in new mexico in 2012, he fractured his baby stepson s skull, and repeatedly hitted, kicked, and choked his ex-wife. he pleaded guilty to cruelty to animals, and still able to purchase guns in colorado and texas. my question is how troubled are you by the fact that the air force did not alert the fbi and get this man s name into the federal database that should have prevented him from purchasing the weapons he used to kill 26 people in texas? i m very troubled. our main defense against things like this is background checks, trying to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn t have them. and clearly that was the case, and i don t know whether it was an administrative error or somebody deliberately decided this isn t important enough, and you get into distinctions between what type of discharge did he get? was it dishonorable? no, it wasn t. was it administrative. all those things. clearly we have to get to the bottom of this, and the entire defense department in my view has to review policies to be sure that this information gets into databases. i m interested in apparently he had a variety of guns in the car. where did they come from and how did he get them? did he buy them legitimately at gun stores? what was the background on that. yes, if we have a background check that means anything, the data has to get in there. as we look at solutions and how to prevent these from happening again, we have the conversations after shootings that come up too often. background checks always come up. there s a system in place that failed those people in texas. a lot of people, too, gun control advocates saying there s no reason for a private citizen to own a military style weapon, the type he used in that church. do you think it s time for those to be banned, senator? no. i think we ve got to look at that carefully. here s the problem. i m from a state where we have one of the highest gun ownership rates in the country, and yet, we have one of the lowest rates of gun crime. an assault weapon it s called an assault weapon, but it s simply a semi automatic rifle in costume with a different kind of stock. but the functionality of the weapon is the same as thousands of them in maine and alaska, all over the united states that are used by legitimate hunters. so i have a problem with banning a weapon because of its appearance. one of the problems that we had when they did it before was they changed the appearance a little bit and the ban doesn t apply. i think there are other issues. for example, magazine size that maybe we do need to have a discussion about. because a lot of times in these situations, apparently, it s when the fellow, it s always a fellow, starts to reload, that s when you might have a chance to stop the tragedy, and so magazine size, i think is something we need to talk about. but i ve never been one to say, let s get rid of the semi automatic weapons. do the hunters in maine say they need an ar 15 to hunt deer? of course they don t. it s the same gun. it just looks different. and they don t. and they use a more conventional semi automatic rifle. but it s the size of the magazine, in maine i think the limit is you can only have a magazine that holds five bullets when you re hunting. the question is do you need these magazines that hold 30 or more? so what s a constructive solution here, senator? if you don t believe the weapons should be banned, if the background system was in place and failed the people in texas, what s something you can offer this morning as we try to have a conversation about how to prevent these things? well, i think there are a couple of things. one, we can continue to refine and improve the background check. we found a gap in it in this case. let s fix that with the military. secondly, we need to fix the loopholes in the background check system such as gun show, the so-called gun show loophole or buying guns online. the trafficking in guns across state lines i think are all things we can talk about. this is the amendment we voted on and passed but not by quite enough votes in 2013. bump stocks. this thing that converts a semi automatic to essentially an automatic, ought to be banned. should have been. the atf should not have allowed them back in 2012, i think. so that we can take care of. i think we need to talk about magazine sizes. i think there are things we can do, and we also need to talk about mental health issues. somebody that goes in and shoots 26 people, i think, clearly has something going on. and this guy s history indicates that. but to me, the key is background checks. the old saying of the nra for so long was guns don t kill people. people kill people. well, if that s the case, let s keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn t have them. we couldn t even pass a bill last year to keep people on the terrorist no fly list from buying guns. we ought to be making steps like that to keep them out of the hands of irresponsible and dangerous people. and this gunman obviously should have been swept up in the background check and now 26 people are dead because he wasn t. senator king of maine, thank you for your time this morning. coming up, more on the carter page testimony. one of the members called carter page the most invasive bizarre witness he d ever encountered. we ll discuss it next on morning joe. can you fit in there? 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( ) joining us now, democratic congressman jim himes of connecticut. you know every once in a while we like to play word association games. we re going to play it with you this morning starting right now. it seems to be a great time. sure. ready? carter page. go. loopy. okay. that s the word. what s going on? no. so as we were talking about earlier, david and myself, loopy, but at the same time damning would be another word and shocking, some of the revelations brazen. that have come out. talk about thing is kae signifi his testimony on the larger investigation. i have to tell you, i ve been doing this for a while. it was one of the weirder depositions i ve sat through. seven hours of eccentric behavior. i think lincoln who said he who represents himself has a fool for a client. joe, to answer your question, the reason is as you see from reading the transcript, there were any number of fairly important contradictions in his testimony. actually, on the day of his testimony. probably the big one was and i don t want to make too much of this. we re in the investigation. you don t want to draw conclusions from one particular testimony, but he tells the media, he tells us first, that he s had no contact, no meetings, no greetings. you ll see there s that whole argument there with senior russianofficials, but the ranking member is reported back to the trump campaign that he got all these incredible incites from serious senior people in russia. that s one more example after sessions after don junior and four or five other people in the campaign of people hiding contacts that they had with the russians. if nothing else congressman, what about donald trump and the attorney general saying they had not met with any russians during the campaign or didn t have any information of people in their staff meeting with russians? and the president as well? that was kind of my point. you just have this repeated pattern of behavior of denying contacts with russians when those occurred. and if nothing else, that does not make you look innocent, and it probably drags out the investigation because not all of those things will necessarily be nefarious. p boy, they sure raise questions about why nobody in the administration seems to remember any contacts of russians even though there was lots of contacts with russians. obviously this carter page testimony is getting a lot of attention today and in the work your committee is doing, it s causing getting quite a bit of attention. we ve talked so much about the work that mueller is doing, the special counsel is doing and the investigative power he has. realistically, what can a committee like yours learn about this that bob mueller isn t going to learn? that s a great question. i think as you look at the last couple of months you re welcome get a sense of what s going to happen here. bob mueller has the ability, first of all, he has resources and the ability to get people to wear wires to cooperate. he s going to do a more comprehensive job when it comes to the question of whether any crimes were committed. we re not really prepared to do that. we don t have the resources. that s not what we do. we re going to be about what did the russians do. how did they do it? how can we prevent that in the future? bob mueller is going to be about what you saw happen in bomb shell fashion two weeks ago, indictment, guilty pleas, koorngs, that whole thing in the criminal realm. all right. congressman, thank you so much. great to see you. still ahead, new reporting with a dispute that left rand paul with broken bones wasn t about politics but plantings. compost and pumpkins. how a neighborhood turf war over property may have triggered the violence. morning joe will be right back. another day at the office. why do you put up with it? believe it or not you actually like what you do. even love it. and today, you can do things you never could before. you re working in millions of places at once with iot sensors. analyzing social data on the cloud to create new designs. and using blockchain to help prevent fraud. so get back to it and do the best work of your life. and using blockchain to help prevent fraud. i can t wait for her to have that college experience that i had. the classes, the friends, the independence. and since we planned for it, that student debt is the one experience, i m glad she ll miss when you have the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. ameriprise here s the story of green mountain coffee roasters sumatra reserve. let s go to sumatra. the coffee here is amazing. because the volcanic soil is amazing. so we give farmers like win more plants. to grow more delicious coffee. which helps provide for win s family. all, for a smoother tasting cup of coffee. green mountain coffee roasters. whentertaining us,es getting us back on track,hing? and finding us dates. phones really have changed. so why hasn t the way we pay for them? introducing xfinity mobile. you only pay for data and can easily switch between pay per gig and unlimited. no one else lets you do that. see how much you can save. choose by the gig or unlimited. xfinity mobile. a new kind of network designed to save you money. call, visit or go to xfinitymobile.com. the attack that left senator rand paul with ribs and a produced lung has not been charged. senator paul and boucher have been next door neighbors for 17 years. also prominent members of the medical community and worked together when practicing physicians. the unfortunate currency has nothing to do with politics or political agendas. it was a very regrettable dispute between two neighbors over a matter that most people would regard as trivial. we hope snaurt paenator paul is well. an unnamed source says friday s attack may have stemmed from a disagreement over a property line. and new york times reporter jonathan martin says some sort of, quote, issue around the properties caused the neighborhood. paul is still recovering from injuries. unclear when he will return to congress. due to new information about the extent of senator paul s injuries, boucher s charges could be upgraded to a felony. the fbi and capitol police investigating the incident. assaulting the member of congress is a federal crime. the account we heard there is just from the neighbors attorney. neighbor s attorney. we also heard from i saw an interview of some neighbors last night on nightly news. where thiese two going at it fo years. tell jonathan martin it s not surprised. sounds like a property line dispute except for the fact this man has also posted pretty tough things on facebook. i wonder if it s a little above. the tensions must have come from different sources. good neighbors. little separation. it s clear that these two looked at the matrix political issues before the country in very different ways. we re not angry country. we don t want to speculate about it. day in subordinate where it really matters how many can travel to washington on any given day to vote. going to be a while before senator paul is able to travel. significant injuries and could lead to more serious complications. we certainly hope not. we re going to talk about your book. next hour, but right now, there are a lot of people with their fingers on the key boards wanting to order this. tell us about this. this book, the spy is a novel about two big things. china, and its intelligence service, and china s race to dominate the united states and the world of technology. so if there are two things that this piece of fiction tells you that are a matter in terms of the real life visit by our president to china to take up the rest of the week. chinese want to dominate the most powerful computers that are built. they ve announced that as their goal. in the background of this relationship, however much you hear about great friends they are, new allies is a spy war between. not able to put nonfiction books. they are every a look at into state craft. intelligence committee. background in a lot of ties that appears. what s up with these books. you were saying you do encourage people to buy in bulk. bulk is just as a useful gift. it s easier really to have rolled down to ten. all right. we ll talk more about this in our next hour. still ahead today marks one year since the election that launched donald trump into the white house. 52 weeks anyway on this election day. effect the presidency is having on elections happening today in virginia and elsewhere. plus, legendary news man dan rather and columnist join our conversation. okay. he s more than a prolific tweeter. he s a legend in his own, but he s also a pro livic tweeter. what powers the digital world. communication. that s why a cutting edge university counts on centurylink to keep their global campus connected. and why a pro football team chose us to deliver fiber-enabled broadband to more than 65,000 fans. and why a leading car brand counts on us to keep their dealer network streamlined and nimble. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. it s a lot easier to make decisions when you know what comes next. if you move your old 401(k) to a fidelity ira, we make sure you re in the loop at every step from the moment you decide to move your money to the instant your new retirement account is funded. oh and at fidelity, you ll see how all your investments are working together. because when you know where you stand, things are just clearer. just remember what i said about a little bit o soul things are just clearer. nahelps protect eyesin blue from damaging blue light, filtering it out to help you continue enjoying your screens. or. you could just put your phones down and talk to each other. 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your doctor about the pill that starts with f and visit farxiga.com for savings. if you can t afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. sale on the only bed that adjusts on both sides to your ideal comfort, your sleep number setting. and snoring? does your bed do that? right now during our semi-annual sale, our queen c4 mattress with adjustable comfort on both sides is only $1499. save $300. ends soon. visit sleepnumber.com for a store near you. in the mirror everyday. when i look when i look in the mirror everyday. everyday, i think how fortunate i am. i think is today going to be the day, that we find a cure? i think how much i can do to help change people s lives. i may not benefit from those breakthroughs, but i m sure going to. i m bringing forward a treatment for alzheimer s disease, yes, in my lifetime, i will make sure. good for the people of north korea and the people of the world. i do see certain movement, yes. let s see what happens. over night. president trump telling his secretary of state to stop waiting his time. full coverage of the trip to asia this morning and new poll numbers. bob mueller crossing a white house red line and a governor s race in virginia that may be the democrats to lose. good morning. everyone. it s tuesday, november 7. welcome to morning joe. with us we have columnist and associate editor for the washington post, david with us. also with us, national political correspondent for nbc news and msnbc steve kornacki. where s your book, steve. everybody wants to come with their book. next year i m going to hold you to that. and nbc news capitol hill correspondent. cas casey d.kasiedc kasiedcmented joe long sleeved shirt. where is it. they re in the mail. i will send advocate an e-mail today. so the fedex truck came by my house a few times. i looked ate it hopefully and it drove right by. to kasiedc dc. we re going to be hammering that joke for three years, four years, five years down the road. we designed it with a lightning bolt you re going to love. every morning, donny deutsche would keep saying coming up with chuck whatever. got old after four years. he just kept going. this is not getting old. this is kasie dc. i have to stop you. we have major use. in one second. i want to start because there s so much noise out there every day. and we actually may have some news breaking through the clouds. just sort of a ray, a little bit. just a little bit of news that isn t involved with russian investigation or tweets. what the president said actually significant and may be suggests that his secretary of state and general mattis. this could evaporate when the sun comes up with a midmorning tweet. if we re moving towards a deal that is very significant. it certainly makes the world that s on edge a little bit calmer. joe, you and i and mika have been talking on this show. now for months about the diplomatic strategy that laid behind all these comments about little rocket man and seeming to take the world to the edge of nuclear war and all that time, there has been an effort to set the table for diplomacy. trump is tells us now the last fork has been laid down. we ll have to see what he s really got. how do you gauge the optimism behind the scenes from people in the administration and people have been hammering this out. do they believe they can get a deal. when we say a deal, i think we should correct that to say the beginning of talks. it s going to take a long time. can we have a start towards a framework that helps us step back from a missile being launched over japan. yes, here s the heart of the matter. kim jong-un, the tough some say irrational leader of north korea, would like to get all it will way in terms of ability to demonstrate he can drop a nuclear weapon on any state in america. that s his goal to have that in hind. that hand. that s going take him maybe another year. the u.s. wants to freeze the program where it is now. not going to insist that you instantly denuclear rise, but we want do you freeze it and sit down for talks. laid out many of the positions it will take in talks. kim has to decide he doesn t want that last little bit of achievement. told several trump campaign officials including members of the president s inner circle that will he was heading to moscow in july of 2016. carter page testified before the house intelligence last week. republican trey gowdy, page said he e-mailed former campaign manager corey lewandowski. current white house director. and campaign foreign policy adviser jd gordon that he was on his way there. page also said that he told attorney general jeff sessions. again, here s another russian contact that jeff sessions allegedly knew about. and campaign co-chair before he left he went around to figure out a way to get to russia. page said lieu when dough and told him he could go. lewandowski. did not say page should travel to russia on his own. said he couldn t remember. he said i m very clear about this. i granted nobody permission to do that. page had not provided the e-mails to the house intelligence committee when he testified on thursday, but said that he would. the testimony also contradicted pages earlier comment that he only exchanged greetings with russia s deputy prime minster. in an e-mail sent after the trip page wrote that he had, quote, expressed strong support for mr. trump and a desire to work together devising better solutions and response to a vast range of current international problems. furthermore, just shortly after returning, page congratulated members oef the trump foreign policy team. excellent work on the ukraine amendment. reference to the trump s campaign decision to intervene to water down a proposed amendment to the gop s ukraine platform. page told the committee he was, quote, just expressing what i feel. let s just stop right there. david ig nashs, sdiet the fact carter page is all over the place and many times people are looking at testimony as performance art, people are starting to suggest perhaps a quid pro quo. you give us dirt on higry. we ll remove the ukraine amendment from the gop platform. it was bizarre testimony. he sounded as if he was making it up as he went along. one minute invoking the fifth. another minute he wasn t. documents don s kepts emerginge told the committee about. you add this up. see now three separate instances in which trump campaign associates papadopoulos in his plea agreement, page now in descriptions of meeting with the professor. the july 9 meeting with don trump junior. each of those instances is what are they going to do the help the trump campaign. you see something really hard. this has been a difficult investigation with so many things in the year. those are the hard pieces because they show the russians working directly to supply information to the trump campaign that will be helpful. and willie, the trump campaign actively seeking contacts with and help from vladimir putin and the kremlin. and, again, you wonder when jeff sessions testifies before congress, three times that he was not aware of any russian contacts and he clearly was told about this meeting by carter page and others we ve learned about since. did he think it wasn t going to come out? did he think somehow people weren t going to get to the bottom of it? whether it was the journalist investigating it or inside one of those committees looking into it? how could he sit up there and saying what he knew that he didn t know of any russian contacts in the campaign, even if they were innocuous. why would you say you didn t know anything when you clearly knew you had been talked to. and what about donald trump and mike pence and jeff sessions saying that nobody in their campaign talked to russians as mike pence. no, they talked to russians. they talked to russians a lot and then they ve spent the last nine months lying. about all of their contacts with russians. so casey, you poured through pages and pages of testimony. almost seven hours of carter page spilling in front of the intel committee. from carter pages poij of violent. to go to russia and make a grand speech like president obama going to germany in 2008 that would have launched his campaign and his presidency. on the world. what else jumped out at you when you looked at the testimony. what you were referring to earlier is the key overarching question here. obviously learning new information about what top trump officials knew about russian contacts between people who were working for them inside the organization. the question i think is whether there was intentionality or actual discussions or whether this was a situation where they were accidentally running around with people who had deep russian ties. what i took away from the transcript, carterer page, this wasn t just a one off, i took a trip to moscow. he had long standing deep business ties with people in russia that if you dig down into the details of this transcript, a very odd picture of this man emerges and he is somebody who went from at the beginning of these investigations, my sources describing him as essentially falling all over himself to tell them everything they knew. it was almost they felt they were receiving his resume in the mail. then more information about this dossier came out including allegation that he met with top russian businessman during this trip. had a secret meeting. that hasn t been corroborated in this transcript. now, the committee was pressing him on where are you living at night. he insisted well, i m not living or sleeping at a russians house, but they redacted that information. how are you making your money. he said i have past investments. i haven t been working. i m living on savings. where did that money come from. did it come from russia. there are so many unanswered questions in this transcript. it gave us a very interesting window into what the committee is looking into. the questions they re asking that are going to yield a lot more reporting in the press over the next few weeks. still ahead, president trump dives in saudi arabia s political turmoil. david explains what s really going on inside the kingdom and what it means for the balance of power in the region, but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. before we get to election day forecast, we did get confirmation out of ohio about the tornado outbreak that we had on sunday. officially nine tornados. one on the ground for almost 40 minutes. that was a dollar general store that was tore apart there. ohio. this is where we did have nine injuries. some significant damage. look at that. was done by those twisters. the one on the ground for 40 minutes. get to today s forecast. election day forecast. in your way, it s heading your way in new jersey later on today. timing of all of this. take this as 9:00 a.m. this morning. take this out to lunch hour. people trying to head to the polls. still okay. jersey is dry. northern virginia in the suburb of d.c. the rain picks up 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. then by 5:00 p.m., all of the state of new jersey is in a pretty steady rain. that s when everyone is driving home from work or school. trying to get to the polls. pretty heavy rainfall. moving out as we go through the evening. other story out there today. cold air plunging down through the middle of the country. in the 90s last week in dallas. today down into the 60s. finally feeling like fall. areas like denver with snow showers. important election in utah. your weather looks fine, but chilly. temperature around 46 degrees. no approximaprox problems on th whatsoever. new york city get the umbrellas ready. rain will move in. you re watching morning joe. we ll be right back. we re on a mission to show drip coffee drinkers, it s time to wake up to keurig. wakey! wakey! rise and shine! oh my gosh! how are you? well watch this. i pop that in there. press brew. that s it. look how much coffee s in here? fresh coffee. so rich. 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endorsed crowned prince new corruption crack down tweeting, quote, i have great confidence in king sal man and the crowned prince of saudi arabia. they know what they re doing. some have been tweeting and milking their country for years. says the milk man. american officials say as many as 500 people have been arrested in the crack down. including 11 princes. trump s tweets come as the situation between saudi arabia and neighboring countries has rapidly deteriorated. saudi arabia now accusing iran of conducting act of war after a ballistic missile was fired over the weekend. the missile was interaccepted and destroyed. the saudi foreign minister said it was smuggled in and launched by iran backed. destroyed. the saudi foreign minister said it was smuggled in and launched by iran backed. adding saudi arabia will directly respond to iran. all right. that s good. let s get to david ig nashsnati we are watching a powerful. pourer hungry young pour power traditional end saudi arabia has been governed and install his new system. saudi arabia was a country governored by the consensus of theed by the consensus of the princes. it was corrupt. he s gone boom. with a meat cleaver. they ve been put on notice. clerics have been put on notice. your ways are going to change. he began reducing the power of the religious police about six months ago. that was a significant move. said women are going to drive in this country. that s a significant move. his bet, joe, is that young saudis who are sick of living in this conservative, slow moving society will say, you know, this guy may be impulsive, but this is a new country and we re excited about being in it. the danger for him is that he s so ambitious that he is fighting more wars than he can win. is he somebody scheduled he was way over his skies. if you look at the people he arrested. some of the most prominent business leaders in the country. some of them you roll the eyes and say of course they have him. some of them are people who have been part of the story of the kingdoms modernization and he has to be careful not to isolate himself. he s got as enemies senior princes. second billionaires running saudi companies. so many people sigh you have a problem. i would love to see saudi arabia a more modern less corrupt place. the things he talks about are the right things. everybody should understand that. i just don t want him to get in a situation where he becomes an autocrat. authoritarian cringe striking at everybody because that could hurt him. saudi arabia intercepted the missile coming from yemen. saudi arabia says it was an iranian minuscle. what are the implications for the united states as a close ally of saudi arabia, of saudi arabia saying iran has declared war on the kingdom of saudi arabia. head strong young king who wants this sense of conflict with iran to consolidate power internally is pushing us towards greater confrontation. we need to make sure we re in control of that escalation process, not him. i worry most about what happens next for lebanon. if the saudis decide to cut off lebanon financially, lebanon which is miraculously stayed out of the syrian civil war. hasn t fallen apart. predicted over the lip of the water fall too. that would be unfrnortunate. that s something u.s. power should be saying slow down. we like what you re doing. slow down. coming up on morning joe, we recently taped an interview with dennis leery and it s a good thing it didn t air live because that was a mess. i mean, there were so many curse words. it was unbelievable. he doesn t have a filter. he s a lot like you. by the way no, no. oh, yeah. i ve grown. willie, those fake tweets. oh, my gosh. okay. that conversation is straight ahead. it s nasty. but first, dan rather and john me doris join the political round table. morning joe is back in a moment. whether it s connecting one of the world s most innovative campuses. or bringing wifi to 65,000 fans. businesses count on 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is a clear and present danger who s mentally unstable and armed with nuclear weapons. and they do nothing. join us and tell your member of congress that they have a moral responsibility to stop doing what s political and start doing what s right. our country depends on it. this is like the greatest book ever day. makes a great gift. joining us now the editor of new york post and contributing editor of the weekly standard. and big interview dan rather. dan is out today with a new book, what unites us. reflections on patriotism and i see a fabulous producer. with you on this book. you and i know him well. he s from cbs and has been since. i want to ask you both about carter page, but what unites us at this point. what unites us is remembering the values that have held us together all these times and nurturing these values. that s what holds us together. i m very optimistic. i think it s important to have hope during this time. very dangerous time for the country. you know, we americans, we re not good at some things. we re very good at holding steady. steady is the by word of the moment. we ll get through this and come together. it might take a while. i m hopeful we ll come out stronger. we have ongoing debate about what patriotism is and the latest flash point has been in the nfl. some say it s patriotic to stand for the national anthem. i think most people believe that s patriotic. it s patriotic to decent. that s what it means to be an american. when you re an american and you think something is unjust, you ought to decent. how do we define what patriotism is today. that s one of the things i wanted to discuss in what unites us. what is patriotism. in the second decade of the 21st century. as far as the anthem is concerned. i stand for the national anthem. i put my hand to the heart without apology. that s what is inside me. that s what i feel. dissent as an american or revolutionary war. american as apple pie. i think it s very important we listen to one another when it s peaceful decent. while it s not my way of believing, some stand, some kneel. having respect for those who kneel and even though you say yourself as i say to myself, it s not what i would do, i want to listen to what they have to say. because as i understand what they re saying, it s not disrespect for the country. it s not disrespect certainly for the military. it s about calling attention to injustice and we re not a perfect union. the constitution says, in order to create a more perfect union. it s always the north star is out there. we want a a perfect union. realize we can t be perfect, but we can keep improving. important to listen to one another. and lower voices. we need an injection of stability with one another. respect for the other person s point of view. doesn t mean we don t stand up for our principles. the clue clux can. take one example. you can be true to your principles and still respect the right of people to decent. a and the need for the dissent. it s not unpatriotic. as time goes along, history justifies their decent. women s right to vote. can you believe we spent almost the first fifth of the 20th century and still didn t give women the right to vote. those women we re talking about women s right to vote back in the 19th century. we re seen as radically dissenters and some people saw them unpatriotic. we need to keep them in mind. let s look now. the bigger picture and the given what dan said. some of the incredible questions. that are on the table just pertaining to let s say the russia investigation. your tweets are something i look forward to. here s one about carter page. everyone thinks carter page is insane. seems to be answering every question truthfully is a pretty good strategy to save himself. i m serious when i say this. he is adopting a strategy that no lawyer or would recommend. which is he s just answering any and every question that is put to him and he said in one of his testimony, look, i can t answer this because, you know, maybe you re going to discover later that i got the timeline wrong. or i forgot some part of my meeting or something like that. so he s playing some kind of weird holy innocent game i said before. it s like a combination of gardener from being there and the wondered around greenwich village in a bathrobe trying to convince everybody he was a crazy person. on the one hand. he sounds like an idiot. on the other hand he s behaving like a crazy person. it s an interesting strategy in the second decade of the 21st century rather than to be unbelievably cautious, it s being uncautious and saying come at me. what are you going to do? look at me. it was almost fawn like with no lawyer to protect him. what are the consequences. i went to mos can you. to the trump campaign. doesn t that do him real damage. part of the question is naive. i think it can indeed do him real damage. unless when his claim is to make yet another pop culture analogy. he s playing himself. he s wondering around and look, there s the deputy prime minster. yeah, i forgot. i forgot i met with him. you can sort of see it s a little hard to believe watching this guy unless he is the greatest actor in the world that he was somehow a deep senior official, you know, with his hands on the tiller of the trump campaign. he just seems too much of a flake. even that weird campaign to have been something that anybody was going to take or send to moscow to be a emissary for the campaign. he s not somebody you would trust with such a delicate job. your name came up an hour or so. we re talking to lawrence o donnell about his new book. talking about russia and everything that s happening right now. everything that happened in 2016. and sort of the visions and this country. do you see parallels in culturals the way the country is divided right now to that time. yes, certainly similarities. it it s worth reminding ourselves. one of the things i tried to do in what unites us is point out this is a very difficult time. we ve been through very difficult times before. in the 1960s, this country very much divided. we had assassinations. races. we have divisions over the vietnam war. there were a lot of people in the 1960s who thought center can t hold. country can t hold itself together, but we came out the other end of that. and don t forget the civil war. cat if i of the civil warasropt the right to vote and everyone through and courage. for those who say woe is me now. i agree. perilous time for the country. we ve been through these times before. it s reason i m very optimistic. we re going to be okay. we re going to be okay. if we address our deep problems. race being on my list number one. we make great progress with civil rights. we have a long way to go. we have not gotten there. i do think a lot of americans who are not alive during the 1960s and others who were not of the age have forgotten. that was a very divisive time. similar to the time we re in now. dan rather. thank you so much. it s great to see you and hear your voice. so proud of you. you just go from one triumph to another. is that what we call it these days? the book is what unites us. thank you so much. the book is out now. we posted an excerpt on our morning joe website so you can take a look at that. the great dan rather. thank you. john, stay with us if you can. on tomorrow s show, we re going to have former dnc chair donna brazil joining us onset. much more still ahead on this hour. we re back in just a moment. e much more still ahead on this hour. we re back in just a moment. paying less for my medicare? i m open to that. lower premiums? extra benefits? it s open enrollment. time to open the laptop. .and compare medicare health plans. why? because plans change, so can your health needs. so, be open-minded. look at everything-like prescription drug plans. and medicare advantage plans from private insurers. use the tools at medicare.gov. or call 1-800-medicare. open to something better? start today. .has 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[smelling] don t mind if i do. ring in the holidays with buick. hurry in to your buick dealer and get 17 percent below msrp on almost every 20-17 sedan model. that s nearly 7-4 hundred on this lacrosse. hurry, offer ends november 14. i read one. northam is closing like he s a new york jet. did you read that. no. now if northam loses he ll have the worst final two weeks of any campaign ever. that s pretty significant. it s a rough time. speaking of virginia, first family is race. in part because of the help from the first family. they re hoping to turn out the vote in virginia s election for governor today, but they don t really have all the facts yet, but they re trying. president trump tweeted from south korea, ralph northam will allow crime to be rampant in virginia. he s weak on crime. weak on our great vets. the president trump might not know that ralph northam is a vet. a graduate of the virginia military institute, has served on active duty for eight years. army doctor at walter reed. minutes ago president trump s adult son, donald junior tweeted this. let s take ed gillespie across the finish line tomorrow. . so the election is today. why is it tomorrow? because it was not it wasn t barren. polls close at 7:00 today. getting the date wrong wouldn t be the first thing for trump. in september. i m bored with this already. john, what is wrong with the democratic party. why can t they win a race where they ve got a president with historically low approval ratings. the a republican congress that is clueless and hapless. i mean really. could they get a longer bigger run way. this is the big question about tonight. it won t mean all that much if ralph northam the democratic wins in virginia. it will mean an enormous amount if ed gillespie wins in a state that has that pushed three democrats, you know, in a row over the finish line. has had three statewide elections in which democrats have won since 2010. if this is going to be the case the democratic party is going to have to look long and hard at itself and say all the previous races, special election races is not special. the one in so you recollectuth the one in georgia. this is a race they should have won. northam should have had this put away in september. absolutely. two events happening to shake american politics forever. sort of a collision of two stars. one is the virginia race, the other is commentaries roast of jonah goldberg. that s right. commentary magazine has eighth annual roast of jonah goldberg. contributor of ours. friend of ours. works for national review. great writer. we ve done dick cheney. we ve done charles. we ve done bill crystal. we ve done my parents. we ve done dan see mother, a friend of yores on this . jonah is the eighth round draft pick. so the roast begins already. the roast begins early. just to give you a sense of what we do. it is off the record. off the record, but we will if joe, if it s okay, we ll release some bits and pieces, exerts of it. if you go on youtube and search dick cheney behind the music. you will see one of the high jinx that we do at the roast. video we made in 2013. with dick cheney. it s one of the proudest help i was helped along. writing that by the great internet humorous iowa hawk. so this is just to give you a sense that even ponderous nico conservative monthlies can have fun. david ignatius, third thing colliding with history is his great new book, the quantum spy. david, go. it is colliding with history. i write to columns a week. 750 words here. i wanted a chance to write on a bigger canvas about the issues that interest me and in particular about the intelligence issues that interest me. a book about the race between the united states and china to build the world s fastest most dominant computer. and the bitter battle behind the scenes of their agents trying to recruit ci officers and our agents trying to recruit them. and it s just in this world where you know i can say news is too much with us. it s fun to be a novelist and get outside of that and try to tell a story that has a little bit larger scope. characters. very well grounded. how do you compete with reality. you don t compete with reality. reality is just too crazy. you couldn t invent a character like donald trump. it s not possible. these plot details. in a novel, you can take characters and go deep with them. the readers is with you on that journey. imagining that story and that battle. it is a fact now that the united states and china are locked in a spy war that is bigger than anything we ve seen since kgb and the cia. nobody knows about it. that was the final. and it makes a great gift. makes a great christmas gift. do you skrhave a book, john,r a christmas gift. the three little and there are a lot of over a billion chinese also need to give gifts. exactly. over 1 billion. might be a billionaire. if every person in china as we said in 1972 would buy a pencil. and your book. on our website, john, thank you so much. can t wait. up next, maybe the happiest place had on earth, unless you re the la times. why just hammered the paper with a temporary ban on access. keep it right here on morning joe. dad: molly, can you please take out the trash? (sigh) ( ) dad: molly! trash! ( ) whoo! ( ) mom: hey, molly? it s time to go! (bell ringing) class, let s turn to page 136, recessive traits skip generations. who would like to read? ( ) molly: i reprogrammed the robots to do the inspection. it s running much faster now. see? it s amazing, molly. thank you. 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(vo) call 844-4-brightstar for your free home care planning guide. hesumatra reserve told in the time it takes to brew your cup. let s go to sumatra. where s sumatra? good question. this is win. and that s win s goat, adi. the coffee here is amazing. because the volcanic soil is amazing. making the coffee erupt with flavor. so we give farmers like win more plants. to grow more delicious coffee. that erupts with even more flavor. which helps provide for win s family. and adi the goat s family too. because his kids eat a lot. all, for a smoother tasting cup of coffee. green mountain coffee roasters. packed with goodness. all right, disney and the l.a. times have been caught in a feud with no end in sight. so mika, joe, the latest is a boycott of disney by slate of journalists. disney took offense to an investigative piece published by the l.a. times that looked into the relationship the company has with the city of anaheim which is of course home to disneyland. the company banned the times from any advanced screenings of its movies for writers and critics. those journalists are going to write about disney films but only after they ve been released to the general public. so a very big brewing battle there over at least editorial content. speaking of disney, at one point, pretty recently, it was looking to get a lot bigger. according to a report. 21st century fox has been holding talks to sell most of its folks to disney. the two sides aren t currently engaged in talks but they d been reportedly focused on fox s tv and movie production studios as well as broadcast outlets both here in the u.s. but not, this is key, not the u.s. fox broadcast network or fox business or fox sports 1 channels or any of the sports networks so pretty big deal. even bigger deal now is public. wireless broadcom wants to buy competitor qualcomm. it s going to offer to pay around $105 billion in cash and stock. the reason why this is important, the deal has political ties to it. broadcom ceo just last week stood right next to president trump and said he was moving his company s headquarters to the united states from singapore so maybe an interesting development there on political and business sized things. if you re a netflix user, be on guard here. there s an e-mail scam out there targeting the company s 110 million subscribers. the scam e-mail tells users their billing info needs to be updated, it s not current. and then of course links them to a fake netflix site for users to get asked for their log-in and credit card information. if it is, be on guard, don t give any of that information to a suspicious website. that s the proshgs thblem, te hacked or somebody was. thank you very much. up next said they were trapped over there, they needed a plane ticket out. joe. prince, and they said they d give me like ten times the amount of my money. what would lincoln tweet? what? do you know? oh, yeah, this is denis leary. actor and author denis leary reimagines history if the white house had wifi for the past few centuries. if be a lincoln goes after the failing gettysburg yes, leaking out two-thirds of his address. that s sick. look at this one. all right, so the book is denis leary is. the book is why we don t suck. thank you so much for being here. this is not about the red sox. we had a pretty good year this year. yes, we did. when did you write the book? it happens in i ll tell you why thomas jefferson, oh, my god. you re bad, you re bad. i am bad. does your wife approve of this? i don t think she does. has she read this? yeah, my wife has read it. that s the first person that reads anything i write. does she say no? that s a big no. she laughed her ass off. why did you write the book? i m going to throw in another plug. every year i do two stand-up concerts. one in boston at td garden in november for the cancer foundation that s awesome. this year s november 8th. me, jimmy fallon, it s always a great so awesome. but the show last year was four days after the election and i don t do material. i m the host and i open with 30 minutes so i just vented about the election. i didn t vote for trump. i voted for hillary. but i didn t like hillary. so i went up on stage and i did anti-trump, anti-hillary, and i had 15,000 people and they were laughing at all the jokes. i realized, the trump people and the hillary people are laughing. everybody kind of understands how divisive and stupid and messy this election was. so i had six weeks off without shooting anything. i said, you know what, i came up with a fake tweet idea. i sat down, started writing some tweets. i m writing and writing. i think i m writing a book. because i have two kids, 27 and 25. they were very emotionally affected by the election. yeah. my democratic friends lost their sense of humor. they re so rapidly anti-trump. yeah. my republican friends lost their sense of humor because they re trying to defend trump which is pretty much hopeless. impossible. so nothing s getting done. even out in the real world, you can t have dinner with people without them arguing. no. i got to write something that makes everybody laugh their ass off again and understand we are all this stuff we ve been talking, racism, sexism, you know, all these issues, we got to find common ground. it s an interesting moment to talk about comedy in the age of trump. yeah. because it s seen through late night, where you ve had colbert do really well and jimmy kimmel found his thing when he starts talking about health care and jimmy fallon s been criticized for not doing enough of it. he says, i ve got to be me, i ve got to be true to myself. what do you think about everyone having to be on the record and anti-trump in the world of comedy? listen, i think and this book is not about the politicians. it starts off talking about it s anti-all politicians. then i just talk about us and all the issues that have been bubbling up and we re all arguing over. i think it becomes an easy target after a while. you know, certain people are making sort of a living off of it. which that s fine. the thing we have to face i keep telling my democratic friends. they keep saying, you know, stop tweeting about how you want to impeach trump. that s not going to happen. even if it does happen, it takes two years to impeach somebody. when they did it to bill clinton, his approval rating went up 65%. all you re doing is improving base support by trying to impeach him. find somebody to beat him if you re anti-trump. the problem is, i think it has to be a celebrity. i have a chapter called america s got leaders. i think we get rid of the election process which is a complete waste of money and time, takes two years. we don t learn anything. people bloviate their way through. i talked to howard stern about this. we vote by text. the final episode. that person is elected by text to be the president. i m saying in the book, i have a list of the top ten most trusted people in america. not my list. from studies. you know who they are? who? the top three, tom hank, sandra bullock and denzel. that s who americans trust the most. so i m going sandra bullock 2020. sandra bullock? remember the morning after the election we had michael moore on and he said oprah or tom hanks. he wasn t kidding that day. i want oprah because at least we ll get free stuff every couple and look under your chair. who knows what could be under your chair. can i just say something? yeah. willie. come on. you president. this dark past, denis, i ll tell you about. what dark past? we ll talk offline. how can you have a darker past than any people that have been running? like trump? hillary and bill? i mean, you know. that s unbelievable. you have a worst past than bill clinton you re telling me? really? seriously? all right, the book is why we don t suck. denis leary, thank you so much. guys, thank you. for more, check it out at joe.msnbc.com. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. thank you, joe, thank you, mika. good morning. i m stephanie ruhle with a lot of news to cover today. starting with a major mistake by the air force which gave devin kelley access to guns. now 26 people are dead. how could this happen and for the first time the hero who engaged the shooter breaks his silence. every time i heard a shot, i knew that that probably represented a life. i was scared to death. that s a hero. and the bodyguard faces questions today. shocking russian connections with administration officials revealed and testimony from a former campaign adviser released. this is the most evasive bizarre witness i have ever had the i guess the displeasure of coming across. well, that s a description. it s election day. for the first time since trump s victory. virginia shaping up
The call and threw it down. i was on my hands and knees in the mud. she may have tried to stop it and she definitely called for help. nevertheless, chacey poynter was arrested for conspiracy to commit murder. hours later, bob s sister got a call from her mom. she was screaming bobby is dead. jennifer was stunned. her next words were, and chacey is in custody. i thought, i said what? she was hysterical. i thought i died. he was how old? 47. that is too soon. 47 years old. a young man still. more fires to fight and put out. so many more lives to save. a murdered son and daughter- in-law arrested. almost too much to take.