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Karen houppert. She is our guest on after words and interviewed by jenna green of the International Law journal. Host it is a pleasure to meet you. I really enjoyed your book, chasing gideon. I thought that we could start at the beginning. Who was the somewhat unlikely figure who made such an impact on history Clarence Earl gideon was an itinerary cap. Guest he broke into a pool hall and accused of stealing some change from the jukebox, a couple of beers come a couple of bottles of wine and arrested and brought to court there in florida. He approached the judge on the day of the trial and said...

Of africanamericans in this country. So by the time Robert Smalls died in 1950, he died brokenhearted, and financially, not near as well off as he once was. And so i have spent a lot of time talking about the history of this. As i used to say to my students when i taught, if it happened before it can happen again. And we see all the speculation about what the Supreme Court is going to do with the most important civil rights act, which i think was the Voting Rights act of 1965. And most experts think that thats about to come to a significant, and i call, a noble end. Oh grams of affirmative act...

Host when you were bussed into the inner city, did you have a particularly sort of strident stance on the question of desegregation, the question of School Integration . Guest i think as kids, you dont think about it. Looking bag, i mean, even when i was reading back at the reaction for kids in the 70s when they started busing the kids, said, you know, i like it at the school, and they didnt think about it. It was the same way for me, but as we got older, i started to think about not only going to schools and being surrounded by poverty that i didnt see in the neighborhood in the suburbs, that...

Looking back at me even when i was reading back at the reaction for kids in the 70s when they started buzzing, a lot of the kids would say you know, i like it at the school and they didnt think about it and it was the same way for me. As i got older i started to sort of think about not only going to school and being surrounded by poverty that i didnt see in my neighborhood in the suburbs that is definitely eyeopening but at the same time the schools that i attended, there was tracking so you had the regular Program Honors and then you had the advanced program and those were cut very closely of...

Looking at segregation between School Districts in long island and this and that between these issues but the reason i wrote it is i go out to the Public Schools when i was in second grade in the inner city in the housing projects in the poor neighborhoods in the city so it was something i had thought about actively since i was a little kid and so when it came into the Supreme Court i was interested in following that host talking about the personal pieces i like to ask people their personal connection in the story when we get into the meat of it did you have a particularly stance on bus segreg...