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Developments in mr. cohen's plea agreement will not preclude him from an appearance before our committee as needed for ongoing investigation. >> john heilemann, not surprisingly, they'd like to hear from him again. >> not surprisingly at all. and look, i mean, there's obviously going to be a lot of focus now, there already has been a lot on michael cohen. i do think it's important, we're seeing this reporting coming out, maggie haberman, you cited the tweet earlier where she says the white house is now much more focused on impeachment than it was before. and i think it's important to understan...

Least in one of the earlier snippets i heard mr. cohen's lawyer said he would testify without any promise of immunity. i think it's most important that he testifies in front of us and it's also important that he talks to mr. mueller. clearly that's where most of the final action about the collusion issue will be decided. >> let me ask you about this supreme court question. is this just a convenient talking point for democrats? oh, look, michael cohen. let's -- now let's try this to stop brett kavanaugh. or is this a legitimate complaint in your view? >> well, i think i'm going to go ahead and ...

Trying to discredit the deep state, now trying to discredit john brennan. all these people who relate to the thing the president likes to talk-b which is the collusion issue, the russia story. again, we all think that's a legitimate story but they've spent a lot of political energy on that. what they have not spent political energy on because it's really almost impossible for the president to do this, is to try to discredit michael cohen. what are you going to say? these are not -- he's not bogeyman. he's not a stranger. he's not a washington insider. he's not an establishmentarian. he's not a...

Moo mueller and his team face to face? >> i think he's using the media as a focus group. knowing the court of public opinion will ultimately influence the impeachment process, if there is one. i think it's in his best interest to speak with his attorneys president, which would not happen if he were subpoenaed. you want that harness and potential muz. around him and a script in front of him to answer questions that would not be allowed to be there if he had a grand jury. it's in his interest whether he'll follow suit is very different. >> one of the points that were made, maybe he'll answer que...

To be hard to avoid any kind of question involving the collusion issue when the president is basically saying they knew what they were doing when they went into that trump tower meeting. >> you have focused a lot on the subpoena, specter of a subpoena here, as all of this continues. and you've talked to a number of legal experts, i know, who have weighed in on this, told you with some surprise. it's curious to them that robert mueller hasn't pursued a subpoena yet. help me understand their thinking, why it seems so unorthodox to them, at least, that robert mueller hasn't done this, as this con...