two women one serb, one albanian prepared to put aside the divisions that tore their worlds apart. the late 1990s conflict between serb forces and albanian insurgents for the future of the former yugoslav province of kosovo left thousands dead. serbian forces attempted to rid the region of its ethnic albanian population. the kosovo liberation army retaliated. many civilians died most of them men. around 5,800 people disappeared. 25 years later, and almost 1,600 people are still missing, leaving many mothers, wives, and sisters to lament birthdays uncelebrated, weddings unplanned, and grandchildren unborn. among them, kujtime, an ethnic albanian who s lived all her life in the city that s become kosovo s lasting symbol of ethnic partition. it was during that time that tragedy struck. dragica, an ethnic serb, lived in kosovo until the war forced her to flee to serbia. her 17 year old son, ivan, went missing on the ill fated journey tojoin her. during spring 1999, the war in kosovo entered its most intense phase. nato intervened in the war, targeting serbian forces they accused of ethnic cleansing. crimes against civilians intensified. kujtime and her family found themselves at the centre of a massacre in mitrovica, at theirfamily home. over the years, the experts working on recovering the missing have faced many obstacles in locating and identifying the remains. kosovo unilaterally declared independence from serbia in 2008. many countries recognise its independence, but not serbia. but, for experts to excavate the mass graves, both sides must work together. families of the missing on opposite sides faced the same problems. many spent years contacting institutions, governments, the military, embassies, and journalists in a desperate attempt to find any trace of their relatives. it took years before serbia and kosovo finally cooperated. but when they did, they worked jointly for over a decade, investigating and discovering new mass graves, and bringing news of missing loved ones to many families. they had identified two thirds of the missing before work stopped in 2021, due to rising tensions between belgrade and pristina. organisations on both sides of the former conflict are determined that the missing third are not forgotten. in mitrovica, gjyla haziri, together with kujtime, has been documenting the missing. dragica and kujtime lived 35km from each other in the same country, yugoslavia. the break up of yugoslavia led to years of war and left communities divided none more so than in mitrovica. this bridge, built to connect, now divides. to the south kosovo albanians who are proud of what they see as their new country. to the north kosovo serbs who pledge their allegiance to another. to this day, kujtime does not feel welcome in the northern part of her city. before the war, dragica lived in pristina today, majority albanian. now she is returning to kosovo, to make contact with kujtime s organisation and visit her former neighbourhood. it s the day of missing persons in kosovo. to mark the occasion, the voice of parents organisation is calling for united multiethnic collaboration in the search for those still missing, and that the rights of families of the missing are not forgotten. kujtime never discovered how exactly her brother died, but she was one of those who found her missing relative s remains. after a decade of searching, they were excavated from a mass grave, along with a few personal belongings. dragica and kujtime have agreed to meet. emotions around the ethnic divides still run deep, and a meeting between women from different sides of the war is difficult for both of them. even though it s tough, both agree that these conversations have to be had. in serbia and kosovo, a generation has grown up not knowing the conflict and pain their parents knew. memories are fading. the world is moving on. but for those left behind, it remains an open wound. women like kujtime and dragica feel their respective governments have made promises they re yet to keep. they don t know when or how this will end. but in the meantime, they re united in their quest to preserve the memory of the missing. hello there. it s been a pretty decent start to the weekend. there was a good deal of sunshine around across most of the country. a bit of cloud here and there, a few showers, mostly in the north. part two of the weekend doesn t look quite as good. it will start sunny, quite chilly. but we ve got a couple of weather fronts pushing down from the northwest that will increase cloud through the day, with some splashes of rain. now, we ve got this weather front approaching the northwest of the country to move through this evening. showers merging together to produce longer spells of rain for the north and west of scotland. so unsettled, breezy, showery in the north, turning cloudier for northern ireland, but clearer skies for large parts of england and wales, with lighter winds here. so it will turn chilly for most. single digits, i think, for the majority of the country. but with more cloud across northern ireland, we will fall to around 10 degrees in belfast. so sunday, then, we ve got low pressure still towards the norwegian sea there, bringing northern westerly winds into the country. we start off with quite a bit of sunshine. scotland, england and wales, cloudy skies for northern ireland, southwest scotland, in towards north west england, north wales. and that cloud, with splashes of rain, will spill south eastwards through the day. so it will turn cloudy across much of england and wales, probably the best of the sunshine across the far southwest, and the northern half of scotland doing pretty well, with sunny spells. but there will be blustery showers here and a cooler day to come, i think, because of more cloud around temperatures of about 12 to 17 degrees. as we move through sunday night, that area of rain splashes across the irish sea, into much of england and wales, becomes confined to southern and eastern areas by the end of the night. so where we have the cloud and the rain, then, a less cold night here, 10 to 12 degrees under clearer skies. further north, it will turn chilly. we start to pick up a northerly wind as we move into monday. that rain slowly clears away from the south and east. it may take a while to clear the east of england. eventually, it will do. then it s a bright day for most, sunshine and showers. most of these across the northern half of scotland, where they will be quite blustery and a chilly northerly wind at that. temperatures, 10 to 14 degrees in the north, 15 to 17 further south, giving some sunny spells. and we hold on to this chilly northerly wind through tuesday, even into wednesday as well. before low pressure starts to move in from the southwest, that ll cut off the chilly northerly and temperatures will slowly recover towards the end of the week. but it s going to be a fairly unsettled and a cool week to come, with a little bit of sunshine here and there. you will live from london. this is bbc news israel has been criticised by a senior european union official over the killing of dozens of palestinians in an operation in gaza yesterday the mission was to rescue four hostages who had been held ship in the territory since the hamas attacks eight months ago. election campaigning continues across the uk ahead of a key week in which parties will set out their manifestos. major restoration work has begun in sweden to protect the wreck of a magnificent 17th century warship the vasa which is housed in a museum in stockholm. hello. i m catherine byaruhanga. the eu s most senior diplomat josep borrell has strongly condemned the killing of palestinians in israel s hostage rescue mission describing it as another massacre of civilians . four israeli hostages taken by hamas during the october seventh attacks were freed during the raid in nuseirat, in central gaza, in broad daylight. 0ne israeli soldier died. the hamas run health ministry says more than 200 palestinians were killed in the raid. israel claims there were fewer than one hundred casualties. 0ur middle east correspondent hugo bachega has more from tel aviv. a dramatic rescue and she s free again. 25 year old noa argamani, captured by hamas on the 7th
and campaigning continues across the uk ahead of the general election injuly. it s expected that parties will set out their manifestos over the next week. now on bbc news, click. this week, we re heading into space to find out how we ll live, work and eat on the moon. we have space homes and a spacewoman. all of a sudden, it clicked in my head. wow, the international space station is a submarine in space. ..moon bots and moon dust. the surface is fine and powdery. i can pick it up loosely with my toe. you know, i think i ve seen that chap somewhere before. jfk: we choose to go - to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard. i neil armstrong: it s one small step for man. - ..one giant leap for mankind. 52 years ago, we laid our last footprint on the moon. as the crew of apollo 17 left the surface, they didn t know that gene cernan would be the last person to walk on another world for quite a while. we re on our way, houston. but now, in this decade, finally. ..we re going back. mission control: and lift off of artemis 1. nasa s artemis programme will, in the next year or two, return us to our neighbour. part of its mission to land the first woman and the first person of colour on the moon. another part to use what we learn here to send the first astronauts to mars. this is where it all began florida s kennedy space center named after the president who made the original pledge to go to the moon. and now, this place is at the centre of even grander plans, because this time, we re notjust visiting the moon we want to stay. this is gateway, humanity s first space station that will orbit another world. it will go round the moon every seven days. and, like the international space station above earth, astronauts will call this place home . although, where the iss can accommodate up to 12 astronauts and is comparable to a five or six bedroom house, gateway will be.more cosy. gateway is a studio apartment. it s. we re going to have room for our four astronauts, multiple docking ports, so we can bring our orion crew transportation ship, we can bring logistics, and we can dock a lander. these four explorers won t all be cooped up on board for the whole time, though. two will actually be spending a week or two on location, down on the lunar surface. it s a chance to further study the landscape and hopefully find a location for our next giant leap a permanent moon base. gateway will be there before we put a habitat on the surface. gateway allows us to access any point on the lunar surface. when we went with apollo, we had to pick that spot on the moon and go to it. gateway will give us the opportunity to go down at different locations. the first section of gateway could be launched as early as 2025, with new modules then being added from 2027. a lunar base is admittedly further out and it comes with risk, but also reward. so, how do we make that a reality? to find out, it s time for me to take one small step of my own. oh, wow. i can instantly see the dust kind of kicking up. yeah. it s really fine, isn t it? it leaves the footprints like you d expect. oh, my gosh. that s brilliant. and this is how moon dust behaves, itjust puffs up like that? it does, yeah. it s so fine. welcome to swamp works. ..the dusty, dirty lab where they work with simulated moon dust. now, the loose soil that covers the lunar surface is called regolith. it s extremely fine, very sharp on a microscopic scale, and it gets everywhere. so when we landed with apollo 11, we didn t know what the surface of the moon exactly was going to be like. you ll notice from some of the footage, the landing pads are quite huge on the landing legs and the ladder s far away from the surface. there was a lot of concern of, how much will this lander sink into the surface? how fluffy is this regolith? the surface is fine and powdery. i can.| can pick it up loosely with my toe. in fact, it s because the eagle lander didn t sink in as much as expected that neil armstrong had to take such a giant leap from the bottom rung of the ladder. today, swamp works is developing robots that can cope with and take advantage of lunar soil. and it will be very useful. see, moon dust is made of materials like silicon dioxide and calcium oxide, which all contain a lot of oxygen. if we could mine the regolith and use chemical processes to extract the oxygen, we could make our own breathable air and our own rocket fuel. the way space flight exploration has been working right now is imagine you re going on a holiday with your family, you re going on a long road trip, thousands of miles, right? right now, we are bringing a trailer behind us with all the gas, you know, that we need with us, all the fuel, everything that we need comes with us. so we want to change that paradigm. we want to. and one of the biggest things that makes the biggest impact is the fuel, right? if we can source some of that from the moon and eventually from mars, that will allow us to bring more and to go more often. making our own fuel makes regular trips to and from the gateway space station much more viable. now, mining moon dust is called isru. and, because they love an acronym round these parts, the robot to do this will be called the isru pilot excavator, ipex. we had to really reinvent how you do excavation for doing mining on the moon, and eventually mars. the challenge is the technology we have for mining here on earth relies on a lot of mass and a lot of weight, right? the more steel you put on an excavator, the heavier it becomes and the better it digs. we can t launch something as heavy as we want on a rocket. it s still very expensive, right? so we have to reduce the mass of what we put on rockets. and then when you land it on the moon, it weighs one sixth of what it does here on earth, right? imagine, like, trying to dig as if you were on ice, right? it will just scoot across the surface. the scoop will not engage and you won t be able to collect anything. so the way the robot scoops up the dust is using this thing called a bucket drum. and it s got a kind of spiral in there. and if it turns it one way, it scoops the soil, which gradually works its way towards the middle and stays there. like that. and then when it wants to unload. ..it turns it the other way and it all comes out again. we put them on opposite ends of the robot and when it excavates, it s using both sets of drums at the same time, but they re digging in opposite directions. so one is pulling it that way and one is pulling it that way. right. ..and pulling itself down to the surface. yeah. one of the main dangers faced by extraterrestrial rovers is getting stuck. so, as an added bonus, ipex s scoops and arms can also help it to get out of a hole orflip it over if it takes a tumble. one of its other defences will keep its cameras free from all that electrostatic dust, which will cling to every part of it. its lenses will be fitted with an electrodynamic dust shield. simply apply electricity and the charged dust particles are repelled, keeping its vision clear. but after a while of going to and fro, we might want to stay a little longer on the surface. robots like this one will prepare the ground for permanent buildings by smoothing and compacting the foundations. do you have a name for this arm? um. we call it. we call it meercat, actually. you ve always got cool names for these things! yeah. why? it s called the multipurpose end effector for regolith acquisition. meercat. .. ..transportation and. yeah, yeah, that s it. you see, what worries me is there are some brilliant inventions you guys haven t bothered with because you couldn t think of a cool acronym. a cool name. that is like one of the. it s very important to have a good name for your projects because it, like, represents the soul of the project, right? now, just like the fuel situation, we can t take building materials with us to the moon either we have to make our structures from moon dust. these bricks and blocks and bars have all been made by mixing and melting regolith with plastic. in the future, giant sd printers will build shelters to protect those living on a world with no atmosphere from radiation, asteroid and micrometeoroid impacts, moonquakes and temperatures ranging from +100 to 200 degrees celsius. even replacement parts can be made from regolith. so this is a wheel that has been printed with regolith and polymer. ok. this is another example of what we can do if we capture the resources from the moon. now, do you know, i ve seen and held wheels for rovers before, full size wheels, and they re really light. right. but this is really heavy. yes, this is the opposite. because those wheels that are light, especially if you re sending it on a rocket, they need to be light because it s expensive. this is heavy because it s made on the moon. and heavy wheels are a good thing, i guess. it s better, right? especially for a digger like that. like the more weight that we have on the excavator, the better it s going to perform. would you believe you can even make rope out of regolith? this is made from basalt glass really, really thin fibres, a bit like optic fibre. so you could even make rope out of moon dust. these are hopeful times for space exploration, but it s always been a risky endeavour. im i odysseus lunar lander separation confirmed. this year, we ve seen three probes sent to the moon. two made it, and both of those had, shall we say, awkward landings. and the artemis mission to put boots back on the lunar ground has been pushed back to 2026 at the earliest. but nasa says space explorers need to take these setbacks in their stride. i don t see it as a disappointment. it s very cliche to say space is hard, but what we re endeavouring to do is highly complex. we expect challenges along the way so this doesn t surprise us and we re pushing forward. it sounds really expensive to do space exploration. is it, and is it worth it? so, yes, it s really expensive. it was really expensive for us to explore this planet, really expensive to lay rail infrastructure, to lay highway infrastructure, to put the infrastructure in place that allows us to travel in air traffic around this globe. it s absolutely necessary for us to lay that critical infrastructure for going to space, because what we learn in that endeavour is tremendous. the exponential growth that we ve seen in the world in technology is because of great endeavours like this. it s absolutely worth it. here in the united states, every year the general population is spending as much money on potato chips as our budget is every year to go out to the moon. that s a good figure. the motivation may be different to that of the space race of the 1960s, but the size of the ambition is just as great today as we shoot for the moon once again. i m alistair keane with this week s tech news. google has confirmed it s started restricting election related questions on its ai chatbot gemini. if a user asks the chatbot about a political party or candidate, it would tell them to try google search instead. they started rolling out the measure in india. the plan is to expand to other countries where big elections are taking place. the european parliament has approved the world s first framework for regulating the risks of artificial intelligence. the ai act works by classifying products according to risk and adjusting scrutiny accordingly. the law s creators say it will make the tech more human centric. however, the act still has to pass several more steps before it formally becomes law. a surgical team at cromwell hospital in london have come the first in europe to use applevision pro to perform two microsurgery spine procedures. with xx software, the apple headset allowed some in the team to have touch free access when assessing up the surgery and offered them visualisations that were previously unavailable. and fancy wearing sunglasses that can quickly swipe to become reading glasses? well, deep optics have you covered with their newly created 32n glasses. users can transition between the two settings thanks to liquid crystal lenses. they contain pixels and tiny electronic controls. i never dreamed that i could become an astronaut. i m talking to kayla barron. ..one time resident of the international space station and now part of the artemis crew, the team who are preparing to go back to the moon. first time i looked out the window of our capsule. ..i6 sunrises and sunsets each day over our beautiful planet, really fundamentally feeling this interconnectedness. everything each one of us does has an impact on the people, notjust immediately around us, but on the entire planet. that inspired me to be really deliberate about, what contribution am i going to make to leave a better, healthier, more connected, more cooperative planet? what inspired you to become an astronaut? i did decide from a pretty early age that i wanted to serve in the military, and ultimately found my way to the naval academy and to the navy and to the submarine force in particular. and i met an astronaut at a navy football game, and hearing her story just reminded me so much of my experience on the submarine. and all of a sudden it clicked in my head, wow, the international space station is a submarine in space. and i told her that and she said, it totally is. it s exactly the same. you have these really complex machines out in these extreme environments that are designed to keep human beings alive in a place we re not meant to be, really, which is deep under the surface of the ocean or in the vacuum of space, and notjust keep us alive, but also allow us to accomplish a mission, do something as a team that s of value to others. what do you think it might be like to live on the moon and then mars? well, the moon is beautiful from the space station, first of all. when the sun is reflecting off this sphere, it s notjust.you know, a crescent moon, a sliver in the sky. it felt like you could just reach out and grab it, and i think made me realise how incredible it is going to be to send human beings back. and there s incredible scientific questions we re going to be able to answer. we re planning to return to the moon, but this time, to the lunar south pole. so we ll be exploring a different area than we visited during the apollo era. answer some really fundamental questions not only about the moon s formation and its geology, but about our entire solar system. you are part of the artemis team. the artemis 3 crew is the one, i suppose, that everyone wants to be on, cos i think that s the one where the people are going to stand on the moon. are you in with a chance of being on artemis 3? of course. everyone in our office dreams of the opportunity to be part of those crews. you wait and hope. but the really cool thing is even if you re not in that seat on the flight, you get to support them and be a part of the team that makes that happen. the artemis 3 mission, they will put the first woman and the first person of colour on the moon. i m guessing that those two people will become as famous as neil armstrong. put yourself in her shoes, even if it s not you. what would that represent for you? for humankind? you know, i think that moment will really represent how far we ve come. you know, we did amazing things in the apollo era, but not everyone had the access to those opportunities. there have been women in the nasa astronaut office for a really long time doing really incredible things. so we ll be standing on those women s shoulders. the first woman to command a space shuttle, the first to do a spacewalk, the first to command the space station. and when we look around at the diversity of our office, it s really incredible, like, who we have around us. it will be this incredible, historic, iconic moment that i think young women and girls around the planet will look to as an example of the fact that you can do anything if you work hard and are supported by the systems, the communities around you to have an opportunity to achieve those goals. you might have seen space food before. but what about space plants? if nasa wants its astronauts to stay out in space for longer, they ll need to be able to replenish their own food supply. this is nothing new. astronauts have been growing crops in space for the past a0 years. but there s still an awful lot that scientists are trying to learn about space farming. we have things like radiation that we have to deal with. we also have issues with microgravity. plants have learned how to detect gravity with their roots and gravity sensing organelles in the plants, and so they know how to use these cues. and without these cues, they have to re adapt to this environment. so, without gravity, the next cue that they use is light. so, how to go up and down, how to orient themselves is based on light now, cos they don t have gravity. water behaves very differently in microgravity. it has a high surface tension, so it likes to cling. and when the water clings to the roots, it prevents the roots from breathing. and so the plants can experience things like drought stress. they mayjust look green to you and me, but plants appear very different when viewed in the infrared and ultraviolet parts of the spectrum. and the scientists here are learning how their appearance changes under different types of stress. here in the plant processing area, we re giving the plants a stressor. so, in this case, we re reducing its watering. because on the station, we know it s difficult to water. and so we can identify through our imaging project, using infrared and visible light, as well as fluorescence, that stress. we take all this data and to make that association we use machine learning. then we can associate the wavelengths that are most indicative of that stress and include them in a camera that would monitor the plants on station. this is where the plants live when they get up there. the veggie unit. this is how they grow stuff on the international space station? yep. it s a simple led system, as well as a bellows, so it s open to the crew environment. we have two of these and six plants each. so you can imagine we re not making a huge feast, but it s enough for a nice serving of lettuce. lovely salad. yeah. how excited are the astronauts that they can now have salad and not just space food? they re very grateful. they can have salad, we ve grown peppers as well, and they can even have flowers cos we ve grown zinnia on space. now, there is a knack to getting these seeds to sprout in space. the way you grow plants on the international space station is using this, which is a plant pillow. so, this is the wick that sucks the moisture up. you plug your water source into here and you fill the bottom with soil, and then you get your tiny seeds, which stay in these polymer wrappers so they don t zip off and you lose them around the iss. and you pop it in here, and 28 days later. ..get yourself a lettuce. aside from the obvious benefits of creating a renewable food source, there are all sorts of other advantages to growing plants in space. gardening is very therapeutic. it s something that the astronauts would say, hey, you know, let me take care of something green. it makes them happy. plants produce oxygen and they recycle waste, they recycle water. all this fundamental stuff together will make them a very important organism to take with us. when we re living on the moon and when we re living on mars, what type of plants will we be eating? we would like to have things like nuts and citrus, but, again, there s still so much we don t know about how those plants adapt to the environment. the current goal is to use hydroponic systems, which rely on water based nutrient solutions instead of soil, which is heavy and expensive to transport. but in 2022, scientists showed that plants can grow in lunar soil, regolith. which kind of brings us full circle in a way, doesn t it? if we want to live on new worlds, we need to use the resources that they provide us instead of taking more from our home planet. this has been a fascinating trip to nasa, a place which will one day help us put builders, miners, and even farmers on the moon. hello there. it s been a pretty decent start to the weekend. there was a good deal of sunshine around across most of the country. a bit of cloud here and there, a few showers, mostly in the north. part two of the weekend doesn t look quite as good. it will start sunny, quite chilly. but we ve got a couple of weather fronts pushing down from the northwest that will increase cloud through the day, with some splashes of rain. now, we ve got this weather front approaching the northwest of the country to move through this evening. showers merging together to produce longer spells of rain for the north and west of scotland. so unsettled, breezy, showery in the north, turning cloudier for northern ireland, but clearer skies for large parts of england and wales, with lighter winds here. so it will turn chilly for most. single digits, i think, for the majority of the country. but with more cloud across northern ireland, we will fall to around 10 degrees in belfast. so, sunday, then, we ve got low pressure still towards the norwegian sea there, bringing northern westerly winds into the country. we start off with quite a bit of sunshine. scotland, england and wales, cloudy skies for northern ireland, southwest scotland, in towards northwest england, north wales. and that cloud, with splashes of rain, will spill southeastwards through the day. so it will turn cloudy across much of england and wales, probably the best of the sunshine across the far southwest, and the northern half of scotland doing pretty well, with sunny spells. but there will be blustery showers here and a cooler day to come, i think, because of more cloud around temperatures of about 12 to 17 degrees. as we move through sunday night, that area of rain splashes across the irish sea, into much of england and wales, becomes confined to southern and eastern areas by the end of the night. so where we have the cloud and the rain, then, a less cold night here, 10 to 12 degrees under clearer skies. further north, it will turn chilly. we start to pick up a northerly wind as we move into monday. that rain slowly clears away from the south and east. it may take a while to clear the east of england. eventually, it will do. then it s a bright day for most, sunshine and showers. most of these across the northern half of scotland, where they will be quite blustery and a chilly northerly wind at that. temperatures, 10 to 14 degrees in the north, 15 to 17 further south, giving some sunny spells. and we hold on to this chilly northerly wind through tuesday, even into wednesday as well. before low pressure starts to move in from the southwest, that ll cut off the chilly northerly and temperatures will slowly recover towards the end of the week. but it s going to be a fairly unsettled and a cool week to come, with a little bit of sunshine here and there. good morning and welcome breakfast. their headlines today: the most senior diplomat in the eu has condemned the killing of palestinians in an israeli operation to rescue four hostages. the mission was to bring home the captive held in gaza since the hamas attacks, eight months ago. election campaigning continues across the country ahead of a key week in which parties will set out their manifestoes. thousands of motorcyclists arrived at the end of a mammoth right from london to cumbria. and in sport, joyful we go in a day of commemoration at wembley where rob burrow was paid tribute to, ahead of their challenge cup final. a sunny start for many of you, a more cloud, increasing, thickening and patchy rain as well. details on breakfast. good morning. the main story, israel has been criticised by the european union s matheny diplomat over the key kneeling of dozens of palestinians in an operation to rescue four hostages in gaza yesterday. josep borrell called the report another massacre of civilians. a
about peace and security. south africa has punished its ruling party for 30 years of failing government. but how does the chastened anc now select partners for the way forward? it is highly expected that the african national congress will come up with a coalition, even though it will be uneasy, but one that will be manageable. and immigration the great issue in so many of the 60 plus elections which are taking place around the world this year how does it affect us? we live in a much more globalised world. it s easier to travel. that has, you know, created movements of people around the planet which are presenting real challenges for governments. news reel: the allied | invasion of europe from the west is launched 0-day the start of d day 80 years ago was heralded by the broadcast of a couple of lines from a verlaine poem, ordering a particular french resistance circuit to start blowing up railway lines. very soon, british, american, canadian, free french and other troops stormed ashore to start the recapture of europe from the nazis. this anniversary seems like a good moment to look at where our world is today. the west in visible decline, russia fighting a war of aggression in europe, china stamping out ideological opposition wherever it can. rightly or wrongly, there s starting to be a kind of pre warfeeling about our times. allan little is the bbc s special correspondent. he s reported on many of the major events of the past 35 years. i think we re definitely in a period of anxiety and fear, and i think the change of policy in russia in february 2022 realigned the world. you and i lived through the revolutions of 1989, which saw the reunification of europe. so, the period of peace that we ve enjoyed over the last 80 years is certainly more fragile than it s been at any time during our lives, john. donald tusk of poland, for instance, the british defence secretary, grant shapps, and plenty of others talking about no longer being in a post war world, but in a pre war world. the threat of a resurgent, imperialist russia is very real. the collapse of the westernising, democratising experiment in post soviet russia amounted to one question what are the political consequences of this degree of destitution and humiliation that the russians were experiencing in the late 1990s? we knew what russia was in transition from. we didn t yet know what russia was in transition to. well, we know the answer now. the answer is that russia reverted to type, if you like. undeeradimir putin, it became authoritarian, dictatorial, and it s allied with changes in china and changes in iran and elsewhere. so, the world is reordering itself in quite a menacing way. do you feel that the 80th anniversary of the d day landings, which is where all of this started, we re now shifting to deep nervousness, instead ofjust patting ourselves on the back, as we have on most d day anniversaries? with the 80th anniversary, we ve lost the living testimony. there s now almost nobody left alive. and i think it s very important to remember notjust what they did in 191m and 1945, but the kind of europe they came home to build after the war. and they wanted a europe that would turn the page on centuries of division in europe. france and germany had gone to war with each other something like four times in the previous century. in 1945, they wanted to build a europe where that wasn t possible any more. where are we, say, in comparison with the past? this is a period of huge anxiety. i feel anxiety myself. you and i have seen war up close. we ve seen genocide up close. we know what it looks like. we know what it sounds like. we know what it smells like. and ifear, in western europe in particular, the danger of complacency. and i think that europe divides on this question as well, between the west and east. one of the things that s happened since 1989 is that eastern europe now, which initially welcomed in 1989, welcomed the westernising process, welcomed being brought into the european union, there is a populist drive in many of these eastern and central european countries against westernisation. they feel that the western model has been imposed upon them, or sufficient numbers of the population feel a western model that they don t recognise, don t feel comfortable with. .. the iconic figure of that position is viktor orban, in hungary, who has said himself that he wants a kind of illiberal democracy. seems to me the big danger is complacency, is saying, we re not living in 1913. we re not living in 1938. we might be. can it really be that europe s whole future, everything has turned around because of one man s attitudes, because of vladimir putin solely deciding to invade ukraine and so on? or are there bigger principles behind him? under him, russia reverted to type, if you like, went back to the imperialism and the authoritarianism that had characterised both tsarist russia and communist russia. and so there is an appetite in russia for this kind of. self definition, this kind of.this characterisation of the nature of the russian state. and i suspect that what we re doing now is walking along the edge of the razor blade, but that at some stage, we ll get over it. what are you, are you pessimistic or optimistic? i err towards pessimism these days, john. even today, 80 years on, the europeans still think of that moment, that 1944 45 moment, in very, very different terms and still think of the post war decades in which they built the institutions of european democracy. they think about them differently to the british. for the british, it was a transactional. it was about trade. scratch away at the surface of european sentiment, european sensibility, what you find is anxiety about peace and security, rather than trade and the economy. and i think that is rooted in the different experience of the 1940s. south africa has marked the 30th anniversary of majority rule with an election which has cut the african national congress, the party of nelson mandela, down to size. crime, corruption, the failure of basic services, like power and water, have infuriated huge numbers of south africans. even though mk the breakaway party of the man who symbolises corruption for many people, former presidentjacob zuma actually did very well. contrary to expectation, the economic freedom fighters, under their fiery leader, julius malema, faded badly, while the democratic alliance, which runs the western cape and is usually called business friendly, which means it gets the support of most white people, held its position with 21% of the vote but didn t noticeably thrive. so, now the anc has lost its overall majority, president cyril ramaphosa, an instinctive moderate, has to decide which of these groups to form a coalition with. i asked nomsa maseko, the bbc s southern africa correspondent, what she thought about the result. absolutely shocked at the loss of the african national congress, but not really surprised, because it was expected. people of south africa have grown tired of promises made and not kept. they are tired of high levels of violent crime, unemployment, the rolling blackouts which have crippled the economy, the day to day service delivery issues, like running water, you know, and the collection of rubbish, things like that, even though they are loyal to the anc government because of the history that south africa has in terms of, you know, apartheid. they know and appreciate what the anc and other liberation movements did for them back then. but this is a message by south africans to say that the honeymoon is over for the anc. but surely cyril ramaphosa cannot go into a coalition with jacob zuma or his people? there are people within the executive council of the anc that are saying that cyril ramaphosa, as president of this country and president of the anc, should resign from his position because this is the lowest point that the anc has ever got in, in terms of election results. in the last elections in 2019, the anc got about 57% of the vote, and this time around, they re barely holding on to a 40% majority. how likely is it that cyril ramaphosa can do some kind of deal with another party, oranother couple of parties? the democratic alliance, for instance. the anc acknowledges that there will be concessions that they have to make if they want to continue to lead, if cyril ramaphosa is to continue as president of the country. because if not, then the anc will have to sit in the opposition benches and allow the other parties to form a coalition and then govern, which is at this stage highly unlikely. but the democratic alliance has said that it is willing to go into a coalition with the african national congress, but in that there s going to be, you know, clashes in terms of policy and ideology because the democratic alliance is pro israel, the anc is pro palestine, the democratic alliance is also against the policy of black economic empowerment. and that will be a hard pill to swallow for the anc, which is trying with that policy to fix the wrongs of the past. and, of course, the democratic alliance is seen, rightly or wrongly, as being a white run party, isn t it? absolutely. south africans, even though they know that it s been 30 years into democracy, they still have the memories of what it was like not to be in control of their lives, of their economy, of where they go and not go. so there s a lot of misgivings. now, the one name that we haven t mentioned here isjulius malema, of the economic freedom fighters. and they did really quite badly, didn t they? they are now officially the fourth, you know, party, biggest party. but, you know, julius malema delivered one of his most modest speeches when he said that he believes that the electorate has decided what they wanted. but also, he believes that the economic freedom fighters received the votes of the black middle class. and he believes that they will still be able to continue, you know, to be in the opposition benches, but also, there could be a chance that the african national congress itself would want to form a coalition with the economic freedom fighters. will we have a government soon, or in the medium term, or is it going to take forever? in the next, say, 20 days after these coalition, you know, negotiations have taken place. parliament needs to sit before the end ofjune, and that is where a president is going to have to be appointed. and it is highly expected that the african national congress will come up with a coalition, even though it will be uneasy, but one that will be manageable. poor mexico, so far from god and so close to the united states. the rueful words of the 19th century mexican dictator porfirio diaz. things have got even worse since then. floods of illegal migrants from all over latin america pass through mexico on their way to the us, and the drugs cartels smuggle immense quantities of synthetic opioids to the huge and growing american market. the drugs trade made this the most violent presidential campaign ever in mexico. 102 political assassinations, as well as kidnappings and attempted murders. and yet, in all this, claudia sheinbaum, the former mayor of mexico city and a joint nobel prize winner for her work on climate change, won a landslide victory. the first woman to become mexico s president. she is the protege of the popular outgoing president, andres manuel lopez 0brador, who s known from his initials as amlo. but can claudia sheinbaum, even with amlo s support, sort out mexico s problems? and what was the cause of the landslide anyway? i turned to daniel pardo, of bbc mundo, in mexico city. andres manuel lopez 0brador, the current president who s been in power for the last six years. and he s managed to have people happy, really. increasing their salaries, poverty has been reduced from 40% to 36% average. 0bviously, violence is still a problem. insecurity is a huge problem for people. sheinbaum has become or was a very. a candidate that gave people the idea that those policies that enlarge their pockets are still going to be in place. that, added to the fact that the opposition is fragmented, divided, that they are trying to attack a very popular president who had to deal with the pandemic, still has 60% of people s support that s a huge number for a latin american president. but it does sound from what you say as though amlo, lopez 0brador, will want to keep a foot in politics, will want to control her, if he can. that s the question that everyone s asking at the moment. how is she going to govern? how autonomous is she going to be? their relationship. although they are part of the same movement, they have major differences. it s not only about their background, they come from different sort of lefts, because amlo is part of this old left in mexico that s very rooted in the revolution, that is very nationalist. it s very traditional in their economic and especially development ideas. sheinbaum, she s a physicist, who went to university. she has got a phd. she s an expert in climate change. she was part of a team who won the nobel prize because of their contribution to climate change studies. she s a woman, right, in a very macho country. and that s why everyone s asking, how is she going to be autonomous and how much is he going to control her? he has said and promised that he s going to retire, that he s going to go to his farm, and he s not going to be involved in politics. this election campaign, in particular, has been very violent, hasn t it? and there s all the question about the drugs trade with the united states and so on. so, violence is still a major problem. the six years in which amlo was in power were the most violent in history, in terms of homicides. and, yes, this campaign killed at least a0 candidates who were running for office in different parts of the country. so, yeah, violence, it is a problem. however, i think most mexicans have got used to it and have realised that that s not a problem that any government, one single government, one single politician, could fix. people are happy because their pockets are filled with money and they re being able to consume as much as they want. this is a very dynamic economy. the choice that americans are going to make in the united states is going to have such an effect on mexico, isn t it? most of mexican foreign policy is regarding the us, either if it s a democrat or a republican. 0bviously, trump did. emerge with the different issues, but it wasn t that different, really. i mean, you see the relationship that he had with amlo. it was a very pragmatic relationship. obviously, it s a huge source of income for mexicans. a huge portion of the gdp here in mexico has to do with money that mexicans in the united states send to theirfamilies here in mexico. it s a tricky relationship, but at the end, pragmatism does take place and does make the rule of the relationship, no matter who is in power. big countries have attracted immigrants throughout history. there are always people who want to better themselves financially, and there are always large amounts ofjobs to fill which local people don t want to do. but in the modern world, with wars and the effects of global heating, immigration has become a majorforce for social change. entire cities have been transformed as a result of the hostility which this can create. it has been responsible in many countries for the rise of an angry populism. i asked the bbc home affairs specialist mark easton for his views on the changes that immigration has brought to modern society. you have to understand, we live in a much more globalised world. it s easier to travel from one place to another, and that has changed things and also our understanding of the world. and i think that has, you know, created movements of people around the planet which, as you rightly say, are presenting real challenges for governments. there was this extraordinary movement of people back in the noughties, after the expansion of the eu. we saw all the poles come in. suddenly, actually, britain was experiencing immigration in a way it never had before. that, i think, changed the way that a lot of communities felt about immigration. it had not been something they d experienced before. and then i think you should wind the clock on and you get to brexit. and that, i think, was to a significant extent about communities who felt that they had not been informed about what was going to happen. and, of course, what we ve seen, almost as soon as the ink was dry on the brexit final deal, immigration soared. i mean, notjust soared, john, but went to levels that we have never, ever experienced in this country. if you go back to 2022, we saw three quarters of a million net migration to this country. so, i think given that there is now rising anxiety about, actually, do we have control of our borders? which matters a lot. and are we making the right decisions on when we bring people in? and that leads you into the other bit of all of this, which is what the government calls illegal migration, a term which is contested, i should say, but certainly irregular migration. so, these are people who are. like, for instance, those coming over in small boats or hiding in the back of lorries, and they are coming principally to seek asylum in the united kingdom. that, just to give you some context, represents about 6% of all the migration that we have. so, the rest is legal? the rest is legal. the government has invited those people to come to the uk, has given them a visa and said, in you come. yeah, we ve got a job for you. this is, what, to be nurses? care workers and nurses. doctors? doctors. i mean, i know zimbabwe very well, where nurses are really needed, and doctors. of course. ..and bringing them here, to a rich country. notjust the uk, but other european nations, sort of absorbing vast numbers of key workers who are actually required desperately in their countries of origin. now, to some extent, this is about, you know, the freedom of the individual to decide how they want to pursue their career. but equally, i think there is a responsibility on the rich countries to ensure that they re not impoverishing the countries from which these people come. and here is the real rub. if you want to reduce immigration and not have to pay the really significant penalty of not having anyone to care for your ailing grandmother, we re going to have to pay more. and that means that money is going to have to come from somewhere, and it essentially means you cut something else or you put up taxes. and that is the unpalatable reality that we have got ourselves in a situation where we are prepared to bring in large numbers of people to do jobs at low rates that local people are not prepared to do. but an awful lot of people are coming in from countries which are just simply poorer. and they want the kind of salaries that are paid in britain, but also, in western europe and the us. there is a huge debate, political debate, certainly, about, what is an economic migrant? what is a genuine asylum seeker? where you have conflict, the countries that border that conflict, i m sure you will have been to many of them, are suddenly overwhelmed by huge numbers of refugees. they haven t got the resources. they re often poor countries themselves, trying to deal with these. how do we have a fair, equitable system that means that those countries are not penalised, really, purely by their geography, while rich countries further away can say, nothing to do with us ? mark easton, speaking to me here in london. we re getting punch drunk, aren t we, with elections? there s the south african one and the mexican one, which we ve heard about in this programme. the european parliament elections begin this week. and there s the indian one, of course. and injuly, we ll have the british one. nigel farage, who played a big part in persuading britain to vote for brexit in 2016, has thrown a hand grenade into the election campaign here by announcing he was taking over the leadership of the small reform party and would stand for parliament, despite having lost seven parliamentary campaigns over the years. and of course, there s the united states, where the election result could genuinely change the future of the world. lots of media experts think that donald trump s conviction on 3a charges of falsifying his accounts to hide the hush money he paid the porn actress stormy daniels has nudged the pendulum an inch or so injoe biden s favour. but we re likely to have televised debates, in which literally anything could happen between two ancient men of 77 and 81. i m just weeks away from turning 80 myself, so i m allowed to say all this. at which point, everyone, everywhere wonders how a country as vast and talented as the us can only turn up a couple of men like biden and trump for the presidency. but that s a story for another day. thank you for being with us for this edition of unspun world. from me and the unspun team, until we meet again, goodbye. hello there. it s been a pretty decent start to the weekend. there was a good deal of sunshine around across most of the country. a bit of cloud here and there, a few showers, mostly in the north. part two of the weekend doesn t look quite as good. it will start sunny, quite chilly. but we ve got a couple of weather fronts pushing down from the north west that will increase cloud through the day, with some splashes of rain. now, we ve got this weather front approaching the north west of the country to move through this evening. showers merging together to produce longer spells of rain for the north and west of scotland. so unsettled, breezy, showery in the north, turning cloudier for northern ireland, but clearer skies for large parts of england and wales, with lighter winds here. so it will turn chilly for most. single digits, i think, for the majority of the country. but with more cloud across northern ireland, we will fall to around ten degrees in belfast. so sunday, then, we ve got low pressure still towards the norwegian sea there, bringing northern westerly winds into the country. we start off with quite a bit of sunshine. scotland, england and wales. cloudy skies for northern ireland, south west scotland, in towards north west england, north wales. and that cloud, with splashes of rain, will spill south eastwards through the day. so it will turn cloudy across much of england and wales. probably the best of the sunshine across the far south west, and the northern half of scotland doing pretty well, with sunny spells. but there will be blustery showers here. and a cooler day to come, i think, because of more cloud around temperatures of about 12 to 17 degrees. as we move through sunday night, that area of rain splashes across the irish sea, into much of england and wales, becomes confined to southern and eastern areas by the end of the night. so where we have the cloud and the rain, then, a less cold night here, 10 to 12 degrees under clearer skies. further north, it will turn chilly. we start to pick up a northerly wind as we move into monday. that rain slowly clears away from the south and east. it may take a while to clear the east of england. eventually, it will do. then it s a bright day for most, sunshine and showers. most of these across the northern half of scotland, where they will be quite blustery and a chilly northerly wind at that. temperatures, 10 to 1a degrees in the north, 15 to 17 further south, giving some sunny spells. and we hold on to this chilly northerly wind through tuesday, even into wednesday as well. before low pressure starts to move in from the south west, that ll cut off the chilly northerly and temperatures will slowly recover towards the end of the week. but it s going to be a fairly unsettled and a cool week to come, with a little bit of sunshine here and there. live from washington. this is bbc news. four israeli hostages abducted by hamas last october reunited with their families after israeli forces freed them from captivity in gaza. hamas reports more than 200 palestinians were killed in the raid by the idf. two hospitals say they have counted scores of bodies. we ll have the latest from the general election campaign as the conservatives are pledging tax cuts and labour promises to help small businesses. hello, i m helena humphrey. four israeli hostages taken by hamas during the october 7th attacks have now been reunited with their families. but israeli forces in gaza killed scores of palestinians in the military operation to free them. israeli special forces raided two locations in nuseirat, in central gaza in broad daylight. 0ne israeli soldier was killed. hamas says more than 200 palestinians were killed in the operation. an israeli military spokesman said there were under100 palestinian casualties. the eu s top diplomat condemned the israeli raid. the us president has also spoken out at a press conference during his state visit to france. i want to echo president macron s comments welcoming
and of course, he s trying to become president of america again and the other is about the business models of news, because they are under ever more pressure. and when it comes to the business model, we are also looking at al and journalism, because several news organisations have done recent deals with the big tech firms. so that is all coming up. on this week s programme, we re going to hearfrom andrew neil, who has a brand new show on times radio. he s also the chairman of the spectator group. and we rejoined by caroline waterston, the relatively new editor in chief of the daily mirror. yeah, we ve also got two guests coming out of the states one, katie notopoulos, who s the senior tech and business correspondent at business insider. but the first person we spoke to isjeffrey goldberg, who is editor in chief of the atlantic. and we started off by asking him just to sum up what the atlantic is. how is that even possible? on the rare. just in case people don t know, it s a 167 year old magazine founded in boston. 18. 1850s, before the civil war. politics, culture, literature, remains committed to those coverage areas today. but we try to explain america to itself to some degree. i think that s one of our purposes. we have a monthly magazine with a large subscriber base. we have a million subscribers, including digital subscribers. we reach a pretty wide array of people across the us and other parts of the english speaking world. and i think i m right in saying you re privately owned by emerson collective, which is an organisation set up by laurene powelljobs, widow of the apple founder steve jo bs. just explain to us how that works. yeah. laurene and emerson collective bought the atlantic seven years ago. it works, knock on wood, wonderfully well. she s a great owner. we have complete editorial independence. she s very supportive of the mission, as is the whole organisation. we re a for profit organisation, although emerson collective has a for profit and a not for profit, separate wings. we are profitable on our own, which is a good thing and fairly rare these days. i m just thinking about. i ve been thinking about the washington post a lot of the last couple of days. well, we definitely want to ask you about some of the announcements at the washington post. and we want to ask you about your route to profitability, because that was one of the reasons we were so interested to have you on the programme. before we get into the details of what you ve done at the atlantic, i just, with katie s help as well, and a guest who sjoining us, want to put what the atlantic is trying to do and what all publications in the news arena are trying to do in some context. yes, because katie notopoulos is from business insider, and ijust thought it d be useful if she just gave us a recap on the structural problems facing the industry. because, katie, you know, as has already been mentioned, much of this comes back to advertising, doesn t it? right. so one of the biggest problems isjust that| digital advertising, - which was what supported journalism for many decades or centuries, has sort- of dried up. facebook and google are very effective at being digital- advertisers, and they ve just sucked up a lot of the ad - dollars out there. so if you re a brand i like pepsi, it s easier to put your dollars somewhere else than to run an ad - in a publication. and that has really affected . the industry across the board. and you obviously. there s a lot of other| factors going on, just the rise of digital, - and therefore print is not as popular as it used to be. but i think. you know, there are some bright i spots, and there s reason to be i hopeful about the state - ofjournalism and being able to sustain media businesses. katie, thank you. jeffrey goldberg from the atlantic, let s bring you back in. you launched your online paywall in 2019. tell us about that decision and what s happened since. yeah, well, it turned out to be excellent timing, because the pandemic hit the next year and advertising bottomed out. we re holding our own on advertising. we have good people doing it. and, you know, it s not going to be the primary source of revenue for this company going into the future. we ve switched, actually, since 2019. we re now majority. you know, the bulk of our revenue comes from subscriptions, the consumer business, not advertising, but advertising is still an important part. but we launched this paywall. i mean, obviously, we re a print. we ve been a print magazine since the 1850s. we ve had long experience of being a subscription based organisation. when we entered the internet in a big way in the mid 90s, late 90s, obviously programmatic ad revenue, other forms of advertising, became huge for us. but we finally decided, the company finally decided in 2019 to launch a paywall for a digital product. and thank god we did, because a combination of pandemic news and trump news really accelerated our growth in the next couple of years. and that brought us, we just crossed a million subscribers total. half of those. roughly half of those subscribers are print and digital and half roughly half are digital only. all news organisations are diversifying the type of content that they re making. i wonder, aside from the trademark atlantic long articles which many people will know, what else you offer digital subscribers? well, we have a daily report. you know, we re not building a second newsroom, or a third newsroom in the washington post case, for tiktok videos or whatever it is that they re doing. you don t sound overly impressed, jeffrey. no, i m just feeling generally dyspeptic today. so you re just getting. just getting a general vibe. hopefully, that s nothing to do with you coming on the media show! god, no. glad to hear it. just checking. this is the only meeting i m looking forward to today. sorry, we interrupted you. no, no, no. it s ok. i d rather make jokes than talk about the business ofjournalism. i think that. so when i started as editor eight years ago, you know, all i wanted to do, and i have, you know, laurene s100% backing on this, make highest qualityjournalism, because highest quality journalism is the only thing that people will pay for. you know, if we had put all of our eggs in the programmatic ad revenue basket, we d be in bad shape, and so on. and so i think doubling down on what you do best, and doubling down on making a unique. unique stories that people will actually pay you for to read is the way to go. and so we have a much more. you know, obviously, 30 years ago, before the internet, the atlantic came out, it was a, you know, more leisurely paced thing. today, we publish every day. we publish, you know, every hour in busy times. but we re still trying to maintain that level of quality and differentiation so that we can convince readers to become subscribers. i m going to pause you there, sorry, just to bring in andrew neil, because some of this with your spectator hat on must be sounding quite familiar. jeffrey s talking about a million subscribers. how. you re a subscription model as well? we are a subscription model. the spectator has about 100,000 subscribers in the uk, 20,000 in america, because we just launched there, and about 12,000 in australia. if you get the business model right, the digital age can be a golden age forjournalism and publications like atlantic monthly and the spectator. but you need to get it right, and you need to realise that the old business models will bankrupt you. so when i took over the spectator in 2005, 65% of our revenues came from advertising. today, it s less than 10%. advertising is only our third biggest revenue stream. we ve had to seek new revenue streams. we put a very tough paywall up about 12, 14 years ago. 80% of our revenues now come from subscription. and it s a wonderful business model, because subscription revenues are predictable. i know within 5% plus or minus what s coming in this year, because i know the renewal rate, i know what the marketing will produce, and it s not subject to the economic cycle, unlike advertising, which is highly unpredictable. so you get that right and you re a golden age. the poster child of all this, of course, is the new york times, which now has nine million subscribers, more foreign correspondents than it s ever had in its history. and they got in early, didn t they? that was part of it. they got in early, as some of us did too. the times and the sunday times in this country are now highly profitable on the subscription model. and then you need to look, in addition to subscription revenue, for other streams of revenue, streams that you would never have thought of before. so, for example, of course, you still take some advertising. you take very little programmatic. because here s the problem if you re a subscription model, you re providing a premium website, and you don t want your website punctuated by endless ads for things that you have no control over. so you really need to control that. and you re talking about digital dimes in terms of programmatic, but instead, you do newsletters, you do podcasts, you have spectator tv and other ventures like that. and above all, our second biggest stream of revenue events. we do events that expand the brand and bring in a ton of money. 0k, caroline waterston, i want to bring you in because this presumably isn t sounding very familiar to you because it isn t something that you re doing at the mirror. have you ever thought about subscription? have you ever thought about a paywall? it s not on the mirror s agenda. i mean, certainly from my point of view and from the mirror s point of view, you know, i believe that our content should be available to a wide community and not just those that can afford it. you know, we are a news brand. i want to ensure that everyone has access to our content, and certainly it s not on our agenda. but what does that mean financially? you re taking a hit. do you believe. ? imean, are.? are you essentially of the belief that a paywall is this too dramatic, a paywall is a threat to democracy? is that how you see it? no, it s just not on our agenda at the moment. that s because it doesn t work. we talked. well. for red top tabloids, it doesn t work. the sun tried it and had to abandon it. you know, it s different with atlantic, spectator, times, sunday times, financial times. people are willing to pay. ..new york times. people are willing to pay for that kind ofjournalism. the problem with what we used to call the red top tabloids is that people won t pay for it digitally. of course, in the old days, they paid for it by putting their money down to buy the paper. but it seems that a lot of that kind of content, they think they can already get almost for free on the net. so they re not. it s a. of allthe. you know, all of our industry from the top to the bottom has had to withgo digital waves of change. the toughest part of the market to get right is the red top tabloid part of the market, because the subscription model doesn t work. caroline? yeah. and, look, good quality journalism is exactly what we want to do. but good quality journalism shouldn tjust be available to those that can afford to pay it. so, yes, we are an ad model. ads help fund. ..our journalism. and certainly. that s where we are at the moment. in terms of the experience of the user, the digital user of yourjournalism, do you have any concerns that the proliferation of adverts, which you need in order to fund the work you re doing, lessens the experience? look, it s something i think about every day, but, you know, ads are a part of life, and certainly from the mirror s point of view, we have to produce good quality journalism, and ads help us do that. 0k. let s bring you back in, jeffrey goldberg, because what about your experience in the us, particularly relating to donald trump, who we know back in 2016 drove huge levels of news and news related content consumption? are you seeing the same thing this time around? 2016 and 2020. i wouldn t say. well, first of all, we have a much tougher paywall, so that limits the sort of explosive numbers that you would have seen 2020, 2016, in particular. i think there s also fatigue. you know, these are. these are characters in now what would be called a long running drama, right? trump and biden as well. i think there is some fatigue with it. all that being said, yeah, there s. there s obviously an unusual election taking place. i m trying to use the most anodyne words possible. there s a consequential election taking place and people are. our kind of reader in particular is going to be very engaged in it. but, you know and i think this is a lesson from the washington post in a way you can tjust assume that political news will continually spike for you. i mean, you have to do the thing that s the right thing to do for your publication. it s mission first. and if you forget that, you re going to lose your subscribers eventually anyway. butl. we re not going to see the same crazy numbers that we saw in the past. but obviously, this is not a normal election. and trump does draw an extraordinary amount of attention. i want to ask you further about trump, but you ve alluded to the washington post a couple of times. we should say that on monday, sally buzbee, we heard, was leaving her role as the washington post s executive editor, to be replaced by robert winnett from the daily telegraph. and will lewis, who s the ceo of the washington post, said, we are losing large amounts of money. your audience. this is to staff. your audience has halved in recent years. people are not reading your stuff. i can t sugar coat it any more. so the washington post is looking to change its strategy. but coming back more broadly to donald trump, this is a question we ve asked a number of times on the media show over the years, but it doesn t make it any less pressing. you ve called the election consequential and unusual i m sure there are other words you would use, too. how do you, as the editor of a hugely consequential magazine and publication in the us, approach the challenge of covering donald trump? and i m interested to ask andrew and caroline the same question afterwards. you know, we. we had this problem in 2016, where we were trying to. you know, we were following the old rules, you know, to some degree, which is. and the old rules were the old rules of coverage, what people would call both sider ism. the old rules worked.when you had candidates who operated within certain lanes, lanes of self restraint, lanes of adherence to democratic norms, when candidates felt shame and repositioned themselves based on feedback, regarding the things that they do. you know, the most important thing for me, and, you know, we try to get it right, and a lot of other people are trying to get it right, and a lot of people are trying to catch up the most important thing is that we describe things plainly. right? not euphemise, because donald trump s behaviour is so novel i mean, it s not novel any more, but it s still novel historically and that. you know, and that we don t become. and this is what i m always encouraging our staff about. we don t normalise to this. our own, you know. oh, well, trumpjust said that, you know, the north korean dictator s head is made of cheese. oh, who cares? he always says stuff like that. no, and we have to do it every. we have to report the oddness, whenever it erupts, and that. by the way, this means. we re notjoining the resistance. we neverjoined the resistance, which means we also questionjoe biden s capacities, for instance. that s how you re approaching it at the atlantic. i wonderfor the daily mirror here in the uk, caroline, how do you.? do you approach donald trump like any other politician? or are there particular things you tell your colleagues look, we have to be careful here ? look, trump is an interesting character, but at the weekend, you ll hopefully have seen we actually had the world exclusive of stormy daniels, post everything that happened last week. and, you know, the content that comes out of trump in his everyday life and how he acts, i mean, it creates brilliant, brilliant content for our audience. that s honest. yeah. andrew, let me bring you in here now, because we have senior british executives at the wall streetjournal, the washington post, cnn and bloomberg news. what do you make of this exodus of senior british editors in the direction of the us? bbc too. mark thompson. mark thompson, former bbc. ..is at cnn and was at the new york times. of course, we always put ourselves down, but british journalism is vibrant and dynamic and hugely successful. and we know how to write and we know how to write concisely. well, not for the first time on the media show, we ve been talking about artificial intelligence, and the item that we re going to see now is all about search results that are being produced by new ai products. yeah, this is quite a fun one because google has got a new search called ai overview, a search product, and it is coming up in some cases with some pretty crazy results. and i started by asking katie notopoulos, who s the senior tech and business correspondent of business insider, tojust explain how it all works. so it s not on every single search, it s only on certain searches, typically ones that are sort of asking a specific question versus, you know, searching somebody s name or something like that. and it basically gives you a little bit of. maybe a couple sentences, a little paragraph, maybe a few bullet points that essentially answers your question. and this is probably very useful for most searches most of the time. but it was initially sort of riddled with laughable errors. i mean, one of the things that i do know that you did this really is dedication to yourjob you made a pizza with glue and ate it. just explain why you did that. slightly gimmicky. i m assuming it was for a piece. it was. piece of pizza! americanjournalists are ready. all in the line of duty. ..to undertake these big challenges. laughter. yeah, some people have to cover donald trump s trial. some people have to eat pizza with glue on it. right. basically sounds like i the same thing, really. exactly. laughter. one of the sort of silly answer that was going most viral on social media was someone had asked, how do i get the glued cheese to not slide off my pizza? and google suggested, you know, let the pizza cool for a while. and then it also said, add one eighth of a cup of glue to the sauce. so you re the only person in america who did it. ..it had sourced that little piece of information from a reddit comment that had suggested that obviously as a joke. and everyone on reddit at the time, when they were reading it, could understand in context that the person was making a joke that to keep the cheese from sliding off your pizza, you should add glue to the sauce. google sort of couldn t understand that this was satire, that it was a joke. so, not great. i mean, ijust should bring in. well, google have said about this, because they ve told the bbc, these were isolated examples, generally very uncommon queries, and they aren t representative of most people s experiences, and that the vast majority, it says, of ai overviews provide high quality information with links to dig deeper on the web. and it said it s taken action where policy violations were identified and it was using them to refine its systems. just in the last couple of minutes of the programme, let me ask a further question about al, and it comes down to when big organisations that have content, like the atlantic or the spectator or the mirror, decide whether or not to share all of that content with the big language models that are training generative ai. and jeffrey at the atlantic, jeffrey goldberg, you ve cut a deal with openai. tell us about the discussions within the atlantic, whether you were weighing up whether to do that or not. well, ijust have to be technically clear about something. the editorial team has independence from the business side of this operation, but the business side has independence from the editorial side. and this was a decision made by the corporation and by our business leadership to do this. and so.i was certainly told about it, and i was.invited to share my views on it, but, you know, i. what are your views on it? well, i have my ambivalence about it. i mean, i don t want to. i forget who was saying this before, but, you know, the internet has turns out been great for a place like the atlantic. we reach many, many more people than we used to because of the internet. i don t want to be, you know, sort of axiomatically luddite about this sort of thing and say, ai is only a threat, but i have my deep ambivalences about.ai and what it s going to do tojournalism and also, by the way, humanity and the future of our planet. all that being said, ai is coming whether or not i want it to come. and it s a little bit like, to me, complaining about the weather. the weather doesn t care that i don t like it. so i ve got to dress for the weather, and dressing for the weather in this case means trying to figure out a way to have a relationship with openai in which openai doesn t eat you for lunch. let me just ask quickly caroline and andrew very quickly, if you would. caroline, how s the daily mirror viewing the idea of sharing its content with these ai, these big ai operators? we wouldn t. we wouldn t want to. you re not planning to do that yet? no, we re not- planning to do that. and the spectator? we won t do that until we know a lot more about it. if it s another potential stream of revenue that doesn t carry risks, that s one thing. but we need to know a lot more. for me, the al s biggest opportunity is on the commercial side. i think a lot of the ai can help us run the company commercially much better. we can learn more about our readers, about usage of the app, usage of the website. all that sort of thing is fine, but forthe moment, i ll keep editorial separate. and i lljust add, the new york times is taking a very different approach to this. it s not collaborating with openai. in fact, it s suing for the theft of its content. so we re going to watch how that plays out. and i was at the enders deloitte media conference yesterday, where anna bateson, who runs the guardian, said they would do a deal with an ai company, but only on the right terms. so there you go. well. something to end on, because that is all we have time for, i m afraid. thank you so much to katie notopoulos from business insider and, of course, andrew neil from times radio, but also the spectator. and caroline waterston, editor in chief of the mirror, and jeffrey goldberg, editor in chief of the atlantic. well, thanks very much indeed to all of our guests. fascinating to hear their perspectives on all those issues. i suspect it won t be the last time we turn to ai, to business models of news, to covering donald trump, but it was very interesting to hear from all of them. i think you re right. thank you so much to everybody. that was the media show. we ll be back at the same time next week. bye. bye bye. and if you d like to hear a longer version of today s show, search bbc the media show wherever you get your bbc podcasts. hello there. it s been a pretty decent start to the weekend. there was a good deal of sunshine around across most of the country. a bit of cloud here and there, a few showers, mostly in the north. part two of the weekend doesn t look quite as good. it will start sunny, quite chilly. but we ve got a couple of weather fronts pushing down from the northwest that will increase cloud through the day, with some splashes of rain. now, we ve got this weather front approaching the northwest of the country to move through this evening. showers merging together to produce longer spells of rain for the north and west of scotland. so unsettled, breezy, showery in the north, turning cloudier for northern ireland, but clearer skies for large parts of england and wales, with lighter winds here. so it will turn chilly for most. single digits, i think, for the majority of the country. but with more cloud across northern ireland, we will fall to around 10 degrees in belfast. so sunday, then, we ve got low pressure still towards the norwegian sea there, bringing northern westerly winds into the country. we start off with quite a bit of sunshine. scotland, england and wales, cloudy skies for northern ireland, southwest scotland, in towards north west england, north wales. and that cloud, with splashes of rain, will spill south eastwards through the day. so it will turn cloudy across much of england and wales, probably the best of the sunshine across the far southwest, and the northern half of scotland doing pretty well, with sunny spells. but there will be blustery showers here and a cooler day to come, i think, because of more cloud around temperatures of about 12 to 17 degrees. as we move through sunday night, that area of rain splashes across the irish sea, into much of england and wales, becomes confined to southern and eastern areas by the end of the night. so where we have the cloud and the rain, then, a less cold night here, 10 to 12 degrees under clearer skies. further north, it will turn chilly. we start to pick up a northerly wind as we move into monday. that rain slowly clears away from the south and east. it may take a while to clear the east of england. eventually, it will do. then it s a bright day for most, sunshine and showers. most of these across the northern half of scotland, where they will be quite blustery and a chilly northerly wind at that. temperatures, 10 to 14 degrees in the north, 15 to 17 further south, giving some sunny spells. and we hold on to this chilly northerly wind through tuesday, even into wednesday as well. before low pressure starts to move in from the southwest, that ll cut off the chilly northerly and temperatures will slowly recover towards the end of the week. but it s going to be a fairly unsettled and a cool week to come, with a little bit of sunshine here and there. live from washington this is bbc news. four israeli hostages abducted last october are reunited with their families after israeli forces free them from captivity in gaza. , says 200 palestinians were killed in that raid by the idf. two hospital say they have counted scores of bodies. we will have the latest from the uk general election campaign as the conservatives pledged tax cuts and labour promises to help small business. good to have you with us. four is really hostages taken by hamas during the october seven attacks have been reunited with theirfamilies. israeli forces in gaza killed scores of palestinians in the operation to free them. special forces raided two locations in broad daylight. one soldier was killed. thomas says that more than 200 palestinians were killed in the operation. a military is spokesman said they were under 100 palestinian casualties. a top diplomat condemned the raid and in a post on xjoseph borrell wrote that reports from gaza of another massacre room calling. we condemn this in the strongest terms, the bloodbath must end immediately. joe biden s free step plan is put forward as a way to end the killing. the us president spoke out. here is a press conference. i out. here is a press conference.- out. here is a press conference. ., ., . .,
you re still at the mercy of what these storms decide to do. autumn kirks: i have a very healthy respect for mother nature and tornadoes and what they can do. it can ruin your entire life. it can destroy everything you know. in 2011, after the joplin tornado, amber munson had lost her house, most of her possessions, and all of her treasured photographs. but months later, a miracle. there was a craigslist post from a stranger over 50 miles away who had found a photograph in their yard. it was a picture sucked up by the tornado. a baby photo of amber. the only one to survive. the woman mailed it back to amber along with $5, all she could afford, but wanted to give to help amber start her life over. and with $5, well, she could afford it, wanted to give to help amber start her life over for more information on what you can do in a tornado and what you can do to help combat the growing climate crisis go to cnn.com violent earth i m liev schreiber. thanks for watching. goodnight the listeners as it were the kgb, who had pulled the surveillance equipment lived on the floor above us. and in moscow and you knew they were then on the whole ones just intuitive i mean, i remember my wife and i had some kind of argument about where we could take the children for a weekend picnic in another and manly were, hey, i addressed the silina said, well, you up there, which we agree. and to my amazement, within about two or three hours, somebody had slipped in a note under our front door saying, well, you had agreed on costco vogue or cheerios over whatever was erase some some picnic place i felt that was a kgb surveillance who had a good sense of humor actually this is the unseen story of the cold war but not by politicians that by secret agents there was complete misunderstanding on either side. it s very difficult to determine whom you can trust as the soviet union faces off with the west in the early 1980s to spies play a dangerous game from the shadows they seek to win the upper hand while the world stands on the brink of nuclear war these are their stories in their own words testimony piece together from interviews over the years after 11 years of sigurd worth maybe i developed paranoia and never before heard recordings molten five go up adapting mod getter has been in service i understand the two nadh while catch-all that reveal the deadly intrigues at the heart of the battle between east and west look this is a war a secret war meant at tool was a time when people in soviet union s still believe reality of nuclear war confrontation between west and east was very serious sometimes it was not only iron curtains, it was like iron sphere this is a dangerous moment for the soviet union. almost 40 years into the cold war their economy is overstretched. the military entrenched in afghanistan, and support for communism in decline. the soviet leadership led by leonid brezhnev stockpiles nuclear arms in a show of strength against the west but there s a much subtler weapon to secret intelligence yuri andropov is the head of the soviet intelligence service. the kgb kgb have been running the rational life for years under opa was getting more and more convinced of the menacing was he was a full-blown kgb person who thought that it s either us or them. and basically better be your and drop-off concludes that the superpowers are on the verge of a nuclear war and so he begins a process of collecting information there would be indicators of the approach of nuclear war. this running tally of signs is called operation riyadh and every time andropov gets new intelligence, he takes note there was a chart four american said this the breadths said that somebody was caught here and the plane cross that border and i think and then drop up his mind. he was absolutely convinced nuclear confrontation is coming once this chart is full, andropov is convinced the soviet union should strive and so he uses every resource to keep close watch on his adversaries. being a skilled intelligence officer a spike the life was exciting it for thrilling it was romantic i was thrilled by being involved in specific kgb operation. so like a dead letter boxes or leg, or dsk are very high qualification intelligence officer he was born in a family working for kgb. his brother working for kgb i think was a good example of soviet intelligence service so get tenure on august keen to put agent or the rounds of all the kgb never sent abroad unmarried man there was married to my second wife later as we helped to children i wanted to participate some daring operation i wanted to get a broad as soon as possible in 1982, the kgb sends gordy fc to the uk disguising his identity as a soviet diplomat his posting comes at a tense time relations between east and west are at a knife s edge in december of 1979, the soviets had invaded afghanistan. soviet allies in central america. we re making gains nicaragua and we re trying to make gains in el salvador. meanwhile, on africa soviet allies were fighting in angola. and we re making new friends in other parts of sub-saharan africa. this picture seemed to contradict soviet commitment to better relations with the united states why are they behaving this way? if they really want better relations with us? why are they on the march in what was then called the third world? but we now call the global south there s a political standoff, and neither side shows any signs of backing down the cold war was a view of the world where you had a communist, totalitarian empire run out of moscow. and western countries led by the united states, but including western europe and britain, facing off against each other you have the soviet union, which is at this point a i ll minute superpower, nuclear leader, neck and neck with united states in terms of innovation and development but at the core their ideologies as we know, are completely different democracy versus communism what began as an ideological conflict has escalated into a terrifying nuclear arms race. and neither side wants to appear weak the soviet union had something like 33,000 nuclear weapons. we had something like 22,000 way too many and way too scary. the cold war was an existential struggle over the future of world civilization and that s what makes this moment in history so dangerous is you have both sides completely misunderstanding both the power of their adversary and the intentions of their adversaries assignments are going off. the tornado here you cannot it s one you cannot outrun it it really is a terrifying experience. it is a stuff of nightmares. you just hear it and feel it is o brien. i m thinking i m going to die and i thought that was it. along with earth, with liev schreiber tomorrow at nine on cnn imagine a future where plastic is not wasted. but instead remade over and over into the things that keep our food fresher our family safer and our planet cleaner to help us get there. america s plastic makers are investing 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could earn on everything which is one car chase freedom unlimited. so if your off the rack in or grabbed fracking. your cash back. you cashback on flap jacks, baby back for tacos at the taco shack. i m working on my six pack. let s do a king sweet silent tree. xylene retreat answers this. bacchiads. all right, now madison, have a tree cash back when everything you bought will chase freedom on limited with no annual fee. got a you cashback. j, make more of a job i won t let my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis symptoms define me emerge as you with trump via most people saw 90% clear skin for months. and the majority s stay clearer. i d five years, cbs allergic reactions may occur, can fire, may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine, are planning to emerge as you emerge drum phi it asked your doctor about trump via s a starch anti-communist, ronald reagan crusades against everything the soviet union stands for and he s not alone president reagan s vast limousine has just drawn up here outside the normal porch of income from buckingham palace there s going to be the first time that an american president has addressed both houses of parliament here in westminster run reagan, that maggie thatcher in was amazed that they thought alike right mr. thatcher really did, despite her uptight bearing and her hairdo really loved to be row with or i ll reagan, there s certain magnetism, there s certainly laurie to him and she she felt that tingling i don t want chancellor speaking for all americans. i want to say very much at home we feel in your house ronald reagan said that soviet communism will lie, cheat still to advance its mission around the world. that was the idea that ronald reagan had to delegitimized the soviet union. the decay of the soviet experiment should come as no surprise to us. we see totalitarian forces in the world who seek subversion and conflict around the globe to further their barbarous assault on the human spirit even before he became president ronald reagan said the cold war will end. and i know how it s going to end we win, they lose and he s about to ramp up the rhetoric even further the march of freedom and democracy will leave marxism-leninism on the asieh history. as it has left other trnas, which stifle the freedom and muzzle the self-expression of the people ronald reagan is rallying the troops. is rallying the nato alone, trying to send a signal that the united states should be respected and even fear the america of the 1970s, which was licking its wounds after losing the vietnam war. that s over. we re back, we re strong, and we should be fear making america great again, if you will. we re going to win in the end. we will outlast them people like me, hardliners stopped. that was terrific most of the people in attendance of the speech didn t think it was to serve him think at all why? because he was too radical it did cause a reaction so that speech, it was offensive and was actually offensive to a lot of people. a lot of people i remember saying while the who the hell are you to? to tell us that we are be people who had streaked that fed into the sense in moscow that ron reagan was account boy and he intended to use nuclear weapons against the soviet union in a war that is really thought psychologically, it is think about how dangerous that is closer cooperation between the uk and the us is exactly what andropov fears and in this cold war, andropov looks to his agents for proof what intelligence did in those days where he gave us details of the overall picture we could follow the number of intercontinental ballistic missiles that they had deployed. we could follow the number of new submarines who could follow the number of new tanks you could follow all these things that you could see from the satellite and we could hear about rumblings from poland or texas czechoslovakia hungary, or bulgaria are the unit to russia this is very typical. one of my wife and my arms eating ice cream in the snow i ve cited the bolshoi that s i was head of sas station in moscow in 19, early 1980s, the civil servants old signatures of official secrets act and set what s not in the public domain is rarely not for discussion by bias station and moscow was quite a small one. the whole apparatus of control and surveillance is very sophisticated than they used to paint radioactive paint on the bottom of our cars i know trackers we were thin on the ground, rarely it is extremely hard for outsiders to discover anything significant about the soviet political intentions while british agents seek a foothold in moscow in london, all or gordy ascii joins his fellow spies london was one of the major cities where serwer bianna is going on the kgb quarters and london, it s called station because you get station it s located in the russia membership that london job was extremely advantageous for gerd gsk it means that he was trusted and that he was decent cooperative, and it was good for him at the kgb station in london, there are two agents above gordy ascii in the hierarchy one of them is the kgb station chief are cati good general beep, fat he was not able to speak good english so he could not do anything. he could not write. he only was able to sign guard duty. sql was supposed to spend most of his time nine to five in the embassy doing she s official job being a diplomat and then during the evening on weekends, she became a spy their job was to get british secrets especially sucrose concerning britain s foreign policy gardi ascii is under pressure to send intelligence to moscow that validates operation rayon at the same time, he s had to hide the fact that he is a kgb spy from the british in their eyes, he s just a diplomat if he blows his cover or fails to feed the soviet leadership with good intel, he ll be on the next plane to moscow boards are very good career move for gorgias by the british counter intelligence service by far, phrases considered one of the most professional services in the world i m purchase sure. she knew that wouldn t be a picnic for him the ceo is about to take off. there s no one that goes the things i do we are personnel in what, four wrestling can be we wednesday night dynamited aid on tbs if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer, but up devo plus your voice is the first combination of two immunotherapies for adults, newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer but to spread tests positive for pd-l1 and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene up devo plus your voice is not chemotherapy. it works differently it helps your immune system fight cancer. and two from ways up, devo and year s way can cause your immune system to harm healthy parts of your body during and after treatment, these problems can be 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could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. doctors preferred better science, better results. i m katelyn polantz at the federal courthouse in washington. and this is cnn close captioning brought to you by guilt visit guilt.com today for up to 70% off designer brands, it has a design is like your heart racing had inside a prices new every day, hurry. there ll be gone in a flash. designer sales that up to 70% shop guilty.com today well, i ve got various newspaper cuttings, but also photos with mrs. t log, with actually was uncompromising in her dislike of socialism and communism and that s what drove her. it look so young and innocent. my job was really to make sure that ten downing street worked well for the prime minister maga margaret thatcher knows that it s not just politics that dictates the key moves in the cold war margaret thatcher was fascinated by intelligence part of it was the glamour but also she d liked to collect as much information as possible and intelligence was one of the sources when the government, there was a special box in number ten in which there would have been regular reports of anything which became known about soviets activity in uk mi6 has a very big secret. they re keeping from the prime minister in britain. i was supposed to be just an official civilian official of the soviet state. but zervos, a number of secrets in my life i was a kgb spy, spying against britain but he isn t just a kgb spy pretending to be a soviet diplomat when the telephone call to business intelligence service that s what you hear welcome. orleck, london. we ve been waiting for you i ll let go ascii is a double agent i became secret agent for the british intelligence in the 60s and 70s, gordy fc was based in denmark as a loyal and dependable kgb agent and it s there that he begins to see things in a different light. a turning point for him was that the soviet decision to crush the prague spring and attempted liberalizing the soviet style regime in czechoslovakia in 1968 gardi f ski katz had an internal personal shift he recognizes the inherent repressive snus of the soviet system, which as a kgb officer, he sworn to defend this is an ideological decision for him if this photo government or security services realized that i was spying for britain, i would have been dead it is not betraying. my country, russia i hated the communist system. i wanted to fight against it i simply would have regarded myself as not an honest person. if i wouldn t be fighting against that system there are some things that i really cannot going to i know you ll understand the nature of what we re talking about. when all lag arrived in london in 1982 it was invaluable to have the views of an insider in the russian embassy in london, who use the meaning of everything that was happening only eight people in the country know about this highly sensitive operation at a highly sensitive time it would be very, very few people anywhere you about all you. don t want anybody at any stage. so betrays a source because accidents happen usually things are very, very carefully contained only people who need to know as a great principal to know you have to keep completely tight to a very few people especially extended 9:00 news with michael president brezhnev, ruler of russia for nearly two decades is dead. so the soviet people tonight, five days of mourning begin the leaders who ve grown old in his shadow, the chance of ultimate power who will take over administration officials so there will be no change in us foreign policy toward the soviets until there is a change in soviet policy the soviet union finds reagan s aggressive tone not just insulting but an existential threat right now, the last thing the communist party wants is to be seen as weak so it decides to promote someone with a very clear agenda one adviser, calm front lawn or yuri andropov, a hard line man who would be we ve talked to deal with hey, mom, how many should i decorated? have ran have blue. that s a really tough call for you. that s john king from cnn. let s look at the data your county leaned red eye 15 points in the last presidential election however looking at the latest polling, you re going to need a lot of those purple sprinkles how this guy really knows his stuff $5 a cupcake, you know, the average cost of a cupcake around here is $3 no comment i m getting vaccinated and pfizer s pneumococcal pneumonia vaccine because i m at risk for pneumococcal pneumonia already gotten pneumonia vaccine. but i m asking about the added protection of krever, not 20. if you re 19 or older with certain chronic conditions like asthma, diabetes, copd, or heart disease, or are 65 or older, you are at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia, prevnar 20 is approved in adults to help prevent infections from 20 strains of the bacteria that caused me cockle pneumonia in just one dose, don t get prevnar 20. if you ve had a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine or its ingredients adults with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects for pain and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, fatigue headache, and joint pain. i want to be able to keep my plans. i don t want to risk ending up in the hospital with pneumococcal pneumonia. that s why i chose prevnar to ask your doctor or pharmacist? about the pfizer vaccine for pneumococcal pneumonia new group does assignments get my bag like a bunch of groceries, alice cheese and greens, just contemplate freedom. you can take your eyes off the new 2024 jeep wrangler in gladiator jeep, there s only one during the jeep make this the summer event, get 2000 bonus cash allowance plus no monthly payments for 90 days on the 2024 gop-led ear. and most 2024 jeep wrangler gas-powered models yeah, introducing ned s plaque psoriasis. he thinks is flaky red patches are all people see. oh, tesla is the number one prescribed pill to treat blacks psoriasis oh, tesla can help you get clears don t use a tesla if you re allergic to it, serious allergic reactions can happen. oh, tesla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting some people take new tesla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss upper respiratory tract infection, and headache may occur 242424 new cnn original series new episodes tomorrow would nine just two days after leonard brezhnev death, the head of the kgb hard line or yuri andropov, is promoted to the top job and drop was quite a terrifying man. he came out of the apparatus of control and he event, ran the soviet union as a very controlled environment. the moral vice president bush arrived or also secretary of state show pushes visit is intended as a gesture of conciliation according to western diplomats here he s diplomats worried that new communist party chief yuri andropov may have had to pledge a tough anti washington line and big weapons buildup to win military support. they would like the american delegation to meet with andropov after the funeral monday, but have no assurance the meeting will be arraigned here was a guy who came out of the soviet intelligence community you had the feeling during and drop-offs period that, you know, things were really inert. and the old generation was still still running the country my family was simply terrified. a great grandfather was crews shift. it was said the general secretary of the communist party of the soviet union khrushchev dismantled or as much as he could, he dismantle the kgb after stalin s death. so i m drop-off as my mother was convinced, was going to come back at us and the family with a vengeance. and there was even a talk that the gulags are going to be reinstated he is going to push forward certain policies including international policies as leader of the soviet union. andropov takes his operation rayon charts from the kgb back rooms to the heart of soviet policy you re andropov is a very conspiratorial figure. he is convinced that the united states is seeking domination over the soviets and ultimately a nuclear victory and then so the soviet union has to be completely and utterly prepared to push that button all eyes are now on reagan in this uncharted new landscape reagan was adamant that he is not going to deal with this red, red and for and rope of reagan, was that cow boy who s going to destroy the soviet union because he was playing an oldest films like john wayne reagan, and drop him always found each other neither of them would be a cough this was moment when we were really scared of the nuclear war that really stayed with me as the scariest time that i ve ever experienced in my life. and the soviet union the opposing sides and the cold war could not be further apart britain s double agent is now vital to understanding the level of andropov his paranoia he s got access to the operations being were on against the united kingdom by intelligence officers in the embassy and he s got a knowledge of the politics of moscow god, yes, get of course was able to brief his handlers on the gossip he knows a lot of people in the system and therefore, he s got this unrivaled insight into how decisions are taken, how they think in the senior reaches of the politburo he would be able to leave the embassy on a regular basis and to a safe house where he would be debriefed and if he could smuggle documents out of the embassy so much the better and the b arrangements for copying those in the safe house gordy? yes. skis actions make him so valuable. mi6 decides to inform ten downing street in? december. 1982 margaret thatcher is told that a highly placed kgb spy now works as a double agent for the british but she isn t told his name two months later, gordy ascii provides crucial intelligence operation. reihan is now official soviet policy what the soviets didn t understand is that there was a possibility that operation reihan could be a self-fulfilling prophecy operation reihan was perfect example of starting with a conclusion and then looking for justification for that conclusion. agents were asked are the americans and the british on the verge of nuclear war they were asked, proved to us find the evidence that they are, so that we re be ready for it. and that was the fundamental flaw with operation rayon we were instructed to watch for signs of special activities greetings within particularly by night. blitz, windows of the means of defense, and 40 law office. the american embassy, wrecking overtime until early morning hours what you like that jeff skate really brought was an insight, understanding of what operation rayon was really about it we re showing a paranoia but the paranoia was real asu, they very seeing reports the number of clauses was slowly, slowly growing visuals lucky the point, yes they re preparing when two sides don t know one another, they both misread signs you can see how dreadful things can happen by that kind of misunderstanding gardi of skis intel on the deepening soviet paranoia is so vital to the british that they must conceal their source even from the american the reason the british did not want the americans to know who gordy xq was, was the more people who know the name of a source the more imperiled the source becomes. reagan doesn t have the luxury of the brits inside knowledge. he feels the most effective approach is to scare the soviets into backing down he takes a brazen and terrifying new stands cnn special event. it s time to celebrate freedom progress and the trail blazers. he paved the way this is a festive day for all black americans. we still have a lot of work to do joins cnn s victor blackwell for a native interviews and performance is by john legend smoke robinson and so much more cnn special event, june celebrating freedom and legacy. wednesday, june 19 at ten when cnn i have relapsing a mess but i still want to spend my time my 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blamed for the cold war. they re both to be blamed for all these nuclear weapons. there s an moral equivalence between the two. ronald reagan was saying there s no moral could lead us, pray for the salvation of all of those who live in that totalitarian darkness. they are the focus of evil in the modern world everybody suggest this was, and how inflammatory this was. people worried that this cowboy from the west was irresponsible and he could blow us all on reagan s approach is to aggressively arm europe as a way to force the soviets to back down the whole idea of whether you were taught tough or soft on communism was still very much part of our political landscape. he decided to assure the right wing of the republican party that he was tough on communism. and i was dismayed because what is the strategy to call somebody? the global center of evil, if you insult people publicly, you ll have a hard time getting cooperation out of them. reagan also promotes a defense system nicknamed star wars these space lasers would identify and prevent incoming nuclear missiles its critics ridiculed it as unrealistic but the prospect of taking the nuclear arms race to space terrifies andropov there s the idea that we need to be very strong the only way to deter the soviet union from any kind of regression is to show them that they cannot win. and anything second thing that was going on was that we re going to increase our defense spending quite a bit in the soviet unique can t do that. they can t keep up with us. so we re going to spend them into oblivion. as reagan ramps up his rhetoric, a drama unfolds on the other side of the world that threatens to push the cold war over the edge governments around the world have expressed indignation over the soviet union s action and shooting down a korean jumbo jet over the cluster and pacific. the un security council will take up that incident later today. that tragedy later today, it s now reported that at least 50 of the 269 people on that jet were americans. the search goes on for the planes wreckage the crisis of our flight deck below seven just about half were korean, japanese, and taiwanese the free world was outraged once it s no exaggeration to say that western governments have been stunned and evening little frightened what s the news comes at a soviet had shut down the korean airliner, ronald reagan mediately goes on national television and uses every dirty word for their behavior that he can find. the source what can be said about soviet credibility when they so flagrantly lie about such a heinous act the soviet union becomes very defensive, very quiet, and makes no apologies at all. the military in moscow explain the korean jumbo was spying. so our missiles brought it down hi, my name s is robert mental cable news network. wondering if you will be having any type of statement not to say about the carolinas, not thank expect one soon. so that drove people in the west, especially conservatives like me, to think, boy, they are even worse than we thought they were. the incident raises the frightening thought that the finger on the soviet nuclear trigger could be as unstable as the individual who gave the order to shoot down the korean airliner it sparks protests and condemnation around the world i mean, there was really significant fear that this was going to lead to something big and extremely, extremely dangerous when the competition is a nuclear competition spying is extraordinarily important the russians were trying to spy on us we were spying on them it s very difficult to determine whom you can trust i was telling frank everything got that a control this is a war. the secret was secrets and spies, a nuclear game. sunday at ten on cnn, apartments.com. let s any landlord find qualified renders and signed leases and collect payments from any place even here and whirs here, he sled dave and ada apartments.com, the place to list of place every time i need a new phone, i had to switch carriers. 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questions. so we have answers like how to keep your yard looking, luck bush, which paint color matches your bold style with my lows rewards credit card, you can say 5% every day. you got this and we got, you doctors preferred better science, better results. chasing life with dr. sanjay gupta. listen wherever you get your podcasts in late 1983 piece hangs in the balance between the east and the west in a bid to be ready for soviet nuclear attack west launches able archer it s an annual military operation. but this year s exercise is more realistic than before 40,000 us and nato troops gather across europe right on the ussr s border. april archer was a normal military exercise by dado command to prepare naval forces in europe for an attack from the soviet union. but the way it was done was not normal at all the nuclear component of the exercise was hyped up the idea of it was make this as realistic as you could possibly make it the western powers show an almost naive ignorance of how this huge training exercise will be received in the ussr for andropov, it looks like his operation rayon prophecy is coming true they really see much more cables payable agile i knew, it wasn t dramatic moment i knew moscow was nervous and it came i m at a very sensitive moment for moscow that it had been humiliated on the global stage following the downing of that jet in particular. so every move was interpreted probably to a larger degree than it should have. b52 bombers with nuclear capabilities now arrive at the us airbase in germany andropov watches everything unfold from his hospital bed the soviet people are unaware of their leaders declining health as he keeps his hands firmly on the reins of power they re all puffy is dying, but he s clutching that red button. she really thinks if it s not him, who else he s in charge the soviet scrambled to respond nuclear submarines are primed and ready soviet troops are put on a 15 combat standby oh, ola go dfc probably was the one person who could convey to western sources what was going on inside the mind of soviet leadership at the time of able archer ascii helps his handlers realize that they re dealing with sheer paranoia at the hands at the top leadership in the soviet union. now unfortunately, it didn t come in time enough for this exercise to be canceled the exercise continues oblivious that a nuclear confrontation is now just a phone call away. but it s again, but i mean, it but it s not a game too. and i think what happened is that everything got out of control. this is just something that people can t comprehend that human error could bring the end of the world people just can t absorb that ultimately, you i kind of have this mid udacity. you believe in you own propaganda of your own greatness. you re in the control of the state all russian and soviet dictator s the problem is they always think that the, the last line of defense you are in power you have the right to if you decide to destroy it. so nobody else forget the united states doesn t even notice that the soviet der, on edge. they didn t even put the soviet reaction into ronald reagan s presidential daily brief before andropov can act, the able archer operation wraps up on schedule andropov is finally persuaded he that this really was just an exercise. this time life contribution was explained that this is dangerous you ll playing with fire the liver simply daughter the stands and intelligence. old russian leaders they able archer exercise world came very close to nuclear war the united states didn t know the ratchet down the tension when it really matter that is an indicator of just the lack of understanding that the united states and the soviet union headed each other. but in a nuclear confrontation, lack of understanding can have catastrophic consequences when adversaries have nuclear weapons pote