like a war zone. police in riot gear launched teargas and smoke bombs to disperse crowds. some officers had guns trained on the crowds while standing on their vehicles. they fired teargas at a crew from aljazeera. a local politician was arrested for unlawful assembly. today a host of national politicians from claire mchaskill and elizabeth warren to rand paul called the police tactics over the top. police say they were protecting themselves after getting attacked with molotov cocktails and bricks from some in the crowd. president obama spoke about the crisis for the first time this afternoon. now is the time for healing. now is the time for peace and calm on the streets of ferguson. now is the time for an open and transparent process to see that justice is done. meanwhile, missouri governor jay nixon this afternoon announced a major change. he appointed the state s highway patrol to direct the security situation in ferguson. what s gone on here over the last few days is not what missouri is about. it s not what ferguson is about. this is a place where people work, go to school, raise families and go to church. a diverse community, a missouri community. lately it looks more like a war zone. that s unacceptable. today i am announcing that the missouri highway patrol under the supervision of captain ron johnson who grew up in this area will be directing the team that provides security in ferguson. i just felt at this particular point that the attitudes weren t improving. and that the blocks toward expression appeared to be a flash point. on msnbc today civil rights icon congressman john lewis said what he s seeing in ferguson remientds him of civil rights struggles of the 1940s, 50s and 60s. he had advice for president obama. my own feeling is right now is that president obama should use the authority of his office to declare martial law. federalize the missouri national guard to protect people as they protest. msnbc s tremain lee is in ferguson. he covered the protests last night when police fired teargas. i have tried to get away from the smoke. i can barely breathe. my nose is burning. my lungs are burning. can t escape it. the further back you go it hangs in the air. it looks like the police have taken over completely at the end of the street. but again, far down the street the clouds of teargas engulfing everything. trymaine joins us now from ferguson. also from usa today and perry bacon. trymaine you have been doing incredible reporting. we appreciate it. it s invaluable, especially last night. so the missouri governor holds a prochbs. we played a clip. he said that people in ferguson would notice immediate differences because he s bringing in the state highway patrol the to oversee the security situation. he said immediate differences. he said police would, quote, step back a little bit. going forward right away. now a few hours later are there immediate differences that are apparent and noticeable? the most apparent and noticeable is now they have a black face to put on a law enforcement apparatus. until today you saw hostly white county police officers, mostly white ferguson police officers manning the front line of this contentious battle between protesters that dug in and they will fight for justice for the death of michael brown. law enforcement are getting all the ire from the crowd. i spoke with people earlier. they said he was walking through the crowd, talking to people. he grew up in the area. we ll see what happens tonight. if there is anything like last night, i can t imagine it will be different unlessle they are not firing rub arer bullets and canisters of teargas into the crowd which we don t expect. once night fall hits in ferguson with the crowd growing you never know how it will turn out. that s the question. so much has been happening when the sun goes down the last five or six nights out there. what are you expecting tonight? in terms of a police reaction based on the changes made today? i think people are really and me, we are all expecting much of the same in terms of the idea that people aren t going to stop protesting. people aren t going to go home. a lot of people here are fed up. i talked to a man today who said we are happy the st. louis county police aren t here anymore. understand that we are united and we are frustrated and this the officer s name needs to be released. they want the officer charged with murder. so people have real issues here. they have real things they want to happen. changing the police will hopefully help people understand this is a different regime that maybe things will be calmer. in fact, people have the exact same grievances. we have to keep it in mind when we think what will happen tonight. people are mad that a young, unarmed black han was shot in ferguson. today, ferguson police chief thomas jackson described the situation as a powder keg. he defended the defense from police and acknowledged that they need a new plan. what s happening now is not what any of us want. last night we started getting rocks, bricks, bottles thrown at us and a molotov cocktail and gunfire went off. we need to get everyone to calm down and try to bring some peace to this. we want everybody to be able to protest. we know they are going to protest. we want to facilitate their ability to protest. trymaine, let me go back to you. this is the line we have heard. we hear it there from the police department. last night the police were under attack. it was the molotov cocktails, bricks being thrown at them. you re on the ground. what you are hearing from the police about what they are saying protesters are doing to them. does that square with what you are seeing on the ground? from my vantage point 35 feet away from where the first canisters were fired i didn t see rocks thrown. i didn t see molotov cocktails. someone did throw something at one of the police vehicles. i heard it bounce off the truck just a moment before they ordered the crowd to disperse. again my vantage point was mine. from everything i have seen it was a mostly peaceful protest. there were people in the crowd who were belligerent, who were increasingly angry. but that was by and large a small minority of people who came out and protested peacefully last night. i wonder, too, the response you see from the crowd there. we have talked so much about the term we use is the militarization of the police. walking around camouflaged, heavily armed. almost a war zone. what effect does it have on the crowds? i have an aneck do it. last night i was at the foerg son police station. there were 50 protesters there. they weren t throwing rocks or doing anything. the crowd starteded it started getting late. at 2:30 in the morning the police showed up in tanks. there were four tanks and 60 officers. more officers than protesters saying we want you to put down your weapons, put down your rocks. that was when people got fired up. people got upset. when the cops were telling people this is how you need to act. this is what you need to do. make sure you are nonviolent. that s when people got upset and felt they were being profiled. before that the crowd was pretty calm. there is something to be said there. i talked to the st. louis naacp. they said we need to make sure the police aren t coming, expecting the worst and creating the worst. president obama today talked about the need for people in positions of authority to hold themselves to high standards. they criticized people who would use this tragedy as a cover for vandalism and looting. of course it is important to remember how this started. we lost a young man, michael brown, in heartbreaking and tragic circumstances. he was 18 years old. his family will never hold michael in their arms again. when something like this happens, the local authorities, including the police have a responsibility to be open and transparent about how they are investigating that death and how they are protecting the people in their communities. there is never an excuse for violence against police or for those who would use this tragedy as a cover for vandalism or looting. there is also no excuse for police to use excessive force against peaceful protests or throw protesters in jail for lawfully exercising their first amendment rights. perry bacon, let me bring you in here. when there is a contentious issue anywhere in the country there is always a lot of conversation in the white house about whether, when and how the president can or should speak out about it. in terms of this situation and the remarks we got from the president today, what do we know about the deliberations that were going on in the white house in terms of why they those today to speak and what specific message they wanted to send today. last night s events with the teargas and the intensity last night. reporters arrested and things that happened last night drove them. felt like the president had to talk today. felt like today he had to talk. he had a statement on tuesday. felt today he needed to address this personally. the key thing in terms of what he said was you have heard this not only from the president but attorney general holder, claire mchaskill, rand paul. there was a big focus today on reducing the tone, the intensity and trying to communicate to the police officers that the militarization was a problem. the a.g. had a very strong statement. the idea that whatever is happening there, the militarization, all the tanks, the guns have ratcheted up in a way that the president was trying to calm down today. to go back to you in ferguson, the president s words today, perry is describing what they were hoping to achieve. can you see on the ground a difference? any result on the ground of what the president said today? did it have an impact? i talked to a number of people who hadn t even heard anything about the president s statements. it s unclear whether it trickled down. everyone is out on the streets, not necessarily in front of their tvs. they may not be tuned in to social media. what happened last night is the local law enforcement agencies created adversaries they didn t have days ago. there were people at the local target in the wendy s who said before tonight i was on the fence. they came out with snipers, rifles and the chief said it was a powder keg. if so, the way law enforcement handles this could be a torch. again, senator mchas kill is saying today will be a new day. national leaders and local leaders saying this is a time for peace. tonight will tell the tale whether we are inching forward to peace or escalating the situation. thank you. coming up, how police tactics made the situation worse and what they can do to calm things down. covering the biggest story in the country. we ll talk to two reporters cuffed and arrested last night. president obama, the first african-american president, finds himself confronting a racially charged situation. finally, we ll finish with something we haven t seen for a long time in american politics. senators saying this time the police have gone too far. this is hardball, the place for politics. so this board gives me rates on progressive direct and other car insurance companies? yes. but you re progressive and they re them. -yes. -but they re here. -yes. -are you. -there? -yes. -no. -are you them? i m me. but the lowest rate is from them. -yes. -so them s best rate is. here. so where are them? -aren t them here? -i already asked you that. -when? -feels like a while ago. want to take it from the top? rates for us and them. now that s progressive. in a statement today attorney general eric holder said law enforcement in ferguson should try to reduce tensions not heighten them. he said at a time when we must seek to rebuild trust between law enforcement and the local community i am concerned with the deployment of military equipment and vehicles sends a conflicting message. at my direction department officials conveyed the concerns to local authorities. also at my direction the department is offering through our cops office and office of jut programs technical assistance to local authorities in order to help conduct crowd control and maintain public safety without displays of force. local authorities in missouri have accepted the offer of assistance as of this afternoon. we ll be right back after this. there is an element that tries to provoke officers to take action. the officers by and large have responded very well. the amount of people and the amount of looting and some of the violence and virtually nobody got hurt. that s a credit to restraint. back to hardball. that was thomas jackson of ferguson, missouri, yesterday afternoon for the images over the subsequent 24 hours paint a different picture. we saw how a heavily armed police swat team trained rifles on protesters demonstrating a few yards away. we saw police descend on the crowd of 150 people after nightfall firing flash-bang grenades and teargas to deafen and blind targets. all while knowing a dozen or so journalists were embedded it didn t resemble the restrained response the police chief described earlier in the day. it s raised questions about whether the line between law enforcement and military force has been blurred in recent years. according to a report in the economist magazine this year between 2002 and 2011 the department of homeland security disbushed $35 wl billion in grants to state and local police that cob used to buy surplus military equipment from the pentagon. according to the defense logistics agency, quote, in 2013 alone, $449 million worth of property was transferred to law enforcement. that can include anything from rifles and ammunition to mine resistant ambush protected vehicles. in ferguson over 400 are in the hands of domestic law enforcement. the vehicle you see there was used by the military in the middle east. it s now the property of the connecticut police department. across the country, local and state police departments have been rapidly militarizing forces. the underlying question is how you use the force prudently, if at all. joining me now is law enforcement analyst jim cavanaugh. former atf special agent and liz brown, attorney and columnist for the st. louis americans. jim, let me start with you. this has been a wake-up moment for a lot of americans, myself included. we realize the scope of the equipment and the raw force at the hands of police forces all across the country, even in places like this. this is a town of 20,000, 25,000 people. it raise it is question when you look at the equipment we were talking about. you look at the equipment being used in ferguson. how much of this stuff do police force miss this country actually need? they need less. they could use more negotiators equipment. you can go to almost any police department and talk to the negotiators. they will tell you they can t get the money for rescue phones which is a sophisticated phone we use to deal in barricades or hos taj situations. the money doesn t go to the softer side, the brainy side. it goes to the vehicles and a lot of the heavy equipment. it s not needed. the police don t need the mrat. we were the bomb investigators for the government. we didn t get many mines. you don t need that kind of vehicle. now an armored vehicle commercially built that the police use, there is a standard for that. the police do need that. even if if you re going to negotiate someone out of a barricaded situation, the person nowadays shooting ak-47s at you. just so the viewers know, an ak-47 rifle which is very common there are millions out there will go through the vest, go through the officer and out the officer s vest in the back. there is no protection for the officer. so they do need armored vehicles. not tanks with mounted guns on them. basically commercially made armored vehicles. there is a place for those. there are probably way too many. every little town doesn t need one. law enforcement needs access to the equipment. just today there was a bipartisan call to demilitarize the police. here is what claire mchaskill of missouri told politico today. i have been working to demilitarize the police response over the last 24 hours. i want to make sure that the people i work for understand that i want them to have respect and safety as they exercise their constitutional rights to protest. rand paul echoed the sentiment today in time magazine. when you couple this militarization of law enforcement with an erosion of civil liberties and due process we have a very serious problem on our hands. let me ask you this, liz. we look at the equipment, heavy equipment like police forces have. i wonder if it warps the response in ferguson. it s what we can see in communities across the country where the police departments don t need. they have military equipment. because it s there they feel compelled to use it. absolutely. then you have situations like this. absolutely. forgive me for sounding sexist, but it s boys and their toys. if you have things there, there will be a desire to use them. the channel to every community when they have the opportunity to get these kinds of tools in their department have the protocols kept up with the onslaught of all of this equipment. i think the answer is clearly no. i can t imagine that the small departments are keeping up with the rules that should be in place if we have these things. i just have to ask this question. what is it about the behavior of americans that support the need for this type of equipment? what are we doing now that requires that we have tanks at situations? the protest in ferguson is really similar to the protests that have happened decades before us. it s not any different behavior. why do we need this enhanced 2014 tank-like response to it. that s the other thing i m wondering about. the basic relationship that should exist ideally between the police force and the community. it serve it is idea of to protect and serve. the police force looks like military, an occupying forcement when it ends up looking like that there is no relationship. there is not going to be any trust. absolutely. you also have to think about the difference between the protocol of the police officer and the protocol of a military person. if you re taking on the military persona, the military is not object they shoot first, right? they do not serve and protect. they kill on behalf of their country. so it s a different mindset. it s different directives. it s being absorbed by local law enforcement when you dress people up like a military person how are they going to behave? like a military person. jim, quickly, i m curious your response to what lizz is saying. is that part of the issue? boys with their toys. is there an issue here where people are attracted now to become police officers because they get to play with the tanks or whatever? i think there is an attraction for that in the police service. people become police officers, as joseph wallbaugh said is because they want to be where the action is. that s the same reason journalists are journalists. they want oh to be there when things are happening. what policing requires and i m building on what lizz is saying. she s correct in her argument. what policing requires in a democracy is restraint. restraint is the hallmark of the police. we send you out as a are police officer, you will be cursed at. we don t expect you to curse back. you will be punched. we expect you only to punch back with enough punches to effect an arrest and no more. it is not a mixed martial arts ground and pound beat-down. we expect you to use only enough force to save your life or another s. in every aspect of democratic policing, restraint is built in. the father of policing in the west was robert peale. his famous quote was the people are the police and the police are the people. that s where we get police from. we are not an occupying military force. you wouldn t know it by looking at them. i have to jump back here. thanks to james cavanaugh and lizz brown. lots of news to get to. it s a busy night. thank you. we ll talk to one of the reporters on the ground in ferguson, missouri, who was arrested trying to cover the story. this is hardball, the place for politics. [ female announcer ] rock a 3d white smile. with crest 3d white luxe toothpaste. only crest 3d white has whitelock technology. it removes stains within the microfine lines of your teeth. and locks out future stains. crest 3d white luxe toothpaste. life opens up with a whiter smile. welcome back to hardball. today president obama, attorney general eric holder and ohs urged authorities in ferguson to stop bullying and harassing journalists covering the protests there. over the last 24 hours reporters have been arrested, teargassed and forced to stop filming protests. two reporters, ryan reilly and wesley lowry who set up camp at a nearby mcdonald s were taken into custody after police swept into the restaurant. lowry filmed the police officers in the moments before his arrest. grab your stuff. let s go. i m working on it. stop videotaping. i have the right to videotape you, sir. let s go. please don t wave your gun at me. let s go. you are see me working. don t tell me time to go. don t wave a gun at me. we are down to 45 seconds. let s go. can i missouri my move my car? you can move your car if it s out here. that s what i was asking. you didn t have time to answer that or you re just being mean? let s go. you can move. let s go. sir, please. let s move. sir. in a separate incident caught on tape by a local nbc affiliate police fired what appears to be teargas at an aljazeera america film crew. after they fled two police officers are seen dismantling the lights and tilting the cameras toward the ground. in a press conference today ferguson police chief thomas jackson said he wasn t aware of the incident but made clear the media is not a target. the huffington post ryan reilly is with us along with elizabeth matthews who witnessed the aljazeera incident last night. ryan, thanks for being here. i will start with you. quite a night for you last night. the police chief today insisting the media are not a target. we had the president of the united states. we played this a while ago saying the police should not be targeting journalists. is anything different today? are you noticing a change in the police approach to this at all in interactions with the media? can you see a difference at all? absolutely. it s a complete contrast to what it was 24 hours ago. last night you had an army out there. you had people in full s.w.a.t. gear, people being aggressive about clearing the streets. way too many officers were then actually needed for a peaceful protest. tonight i think obviously we have they have backup and are ready for anything that takes place down the street. it s not necessary. this is a peaceful protest now. there are a few officers in their regular clothes not military gear accompanying and they also had one of the officers some of the officers taking part in the protest and walking with the group here. it s just a completely different dynamic. one that s so far working better than what we saw last night when it was an antagonistic situation where the officers were aggressively going after anyone who was out on the streets. so i think so far it s obviously working. elizabeth, we showed a little bit of the clip there. you witnessed the police disbursing the aljazeera america crew, pointing the cameras to the ground. the video we played with wesley lowry said what one of the things that upset the officer was that he was trying to film him. how widespread is that? have you noticed the police trying to keep people from filming them and catching their activities on the tape at all? they have never said anything to us. we have been out there since saturday obviously when the shooting of michael brown happened. saturday afternoon. then sunday when it really started to get intense later in the night. we never had instances where the police officers were coming up to us, moving our cameras railroad touching us. they would tell us to missouri back for our safety. we agreed because the swags were getting more intense every second that went by. we were never told to stop filming. at one point last night when we were filming what happened to aljazeera s crew we got a little nervous. so we stopped filming. it wasn t because they told us to. was there anything in particular i m curious. the police tried to disburse the film crew and then their first thought is to point the cameras on the ground. there is something going on or about to go on they don t want people seeing? did you notice anything in particular they didn t want people seeing? no. where we were last night, we were doing a story about the school district that was supposed to start and they pushed it to monday. we were in a residential area, completely safe for our standards anyway. we have been out there and we know when you re in the heart of what s going on or outside the perimeter. we were outside the police perimeter. aljazeera and our crew were outside the perimeter. i didn t see where i was located last night a single mass crowd. we were not in the heart of it, like i said. we weren t around the big crowds. we were on a side street in a residential area. i did hear that perhaps when they laid down the lights with the aljazeera crew they were trying to get rid of the lights. why they touched the camera, i don t know. ryan, have you been told why you were arrested? no. i think we are trying to i didn t come down to be arrested or have a story about myself. i came to report on what s going on. what i had been tweeting about and was planning to write about was the huge militarized presence there and the very aggressive tactics being use fd broad daylight against a peaceful protest. we have seen the contrast tonight. no doubt based on the involvement of some other police officers and the fact that isn t being run anymore by the st. louis county police, sort of been taken out of their hands. i think we have seen major differences. it seems to be going well. hopefully that s the situation for the rest of the night. i have to ask you. after what you went through, i appreciate as a reporter you want to talk about the story. you don t want to talk about yourself. at the same time journalism is a story when reporters are arrested like you were last night. do you believe it is appropriate for charges to be pressed against the police for false arrest? we haven t made that determination so far. i think that s something we are putting on the back burner for now. trying to do some reporting when i m out here. what s important here is the way i was treated wasn t because i was a journalist. it was because i was a citizen. the way i was sitting in a mcdonald s working on my laptop. it doesn t matter i have a few thousand twitter followers or i work for the huffington post. i was sitting in a mcdonald s, trying to conduct my business and was a customer there. i was sort of aggressively attacked by this militarized police force. i think what we are seeing tonight is a hopeful sign. hopefully things will continue like this throughout the night. thank you to ryan reilly, elizabeth matthews. appreciate your time. up next once again president obama is forced to address a racially charged incident that s become national news. this is hardball, the place for politics. when you run a business, you can t settle for slow. that s why i always choose the fastest intern. the fastest printer. the fastest lunch. turkey club. the fastest pencil sharpener. the fastest elevator. the fastest speed dial. the fastest office plant. so why wouldn t i choose the fastest wifi? i would. switch to comcast business internet and get the fastest wifi included. comcast business. built for business. welcome back. president obama spoke out today, according to an administration official because the racial unrest in ferguson was escalating with no sign of calming down. the moment to speak was right. it s not the first time president obama made a formal statement on a race related incident and became national news. nearly a month after trayvon martin an unarmed african-american teen was shot and killed in florida by a neighborhood vigilante, president obama addressed the outcry for justice. all of us need to figure out how something like this happens. that means we examine the laws and the context for what happened. as well as the specifics of the incident. my main message is to the parents of trayvon martin. you know, if i had a son he d look like trayvon. in president obama s fist year in office henry lewis gates, a black man was arrested for breaking and entering into his own home. here again the president spoke out. i think it s fair to say number one any of us would be angry. number two that the cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. number three, what i think we know separate and apart from the incident is that that there is a long history in this country of african-americans and latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. that s a fact. president obama was subjected to a lot of criticism for characterizing the police as having acted stupidly which led to the infamous beer summit at the white house with gates, the president, joe biden. obama s comments on any racial incident carry resonance. once again during his tenure as president another race-filled conflict has become national news. joining me is huffington post s howard fineman and clarence page. it s a tough situation for the president to be in. the unfortunate reality is there is a crowd out there that s just waiting for him when situations like this oh occur. just waiting for him and they want the to stoke the worse impulses out there. we have seen it before. i was wondering how long it would take before the first right winger comes along to accuse president obama of dividing america by race. his statement was neutral and even handed. he said both sides are responsible. he didn t address race as much as justice and the proper use of force need for a proper investigation, et cetera, which is fine. look at the contrast with statements about zimmerman, trayvon, henry lewis gates. in my mind he was reassuring black americans they will get a measure of justice. it was immediately interpreted by newt gingrich and other people on the right as dividing americans by race. it s already divided. look at the footage from ferguson. what clarence is talking about there jumped out at me. the difference between five years ago calling police in cambridge saying they acted stupidly versus the tone today. is that a result of it struck me when he made the statement five years ago the white house was caught off guard by the backlash they stirred up. is it a result of the backlash and others like it that we have today s statement? race is a historical privilege of the president to discuss of. also a tricky burden for him to bear. any time he speaks on this the temptation is he s speaking for or specifically toe the african-american community. i was struck by the pact that the most passionate of the clips you showed was involving the most trivial incident involving henry louis gates. that was when the president was new in the job. it was when he was trying to feel his away long in terms of his new historical role as the first african-american president. the one you saw today, it was business-like. it was cautious. it addressed both sides. it also made a very important point about the press. we didn t play that part of the clip. my colleague ryan reilly is a great reporter. he wanted to emphasize the fact that he was a citizen as well as the reporter. i would say it s also important that he was a reporter. the president acknowledged that. in a way the president was dealing with a wider scope of things today in not just speaking directly only to the racial issue while at the same time dispatching, in effect, his attorney general, also african-american, and the fbi to conduct a dual investigation. it would have been a different statement by the president today had not the governor brought in the state troopers. think that was crucial. those things had to happen at the same time. they did. it wasn t just obama himself. it was a much larger framework and landscape he was working on. clarence, i wonder, too. just given, as howard says, the situation in cambridge, mass, in 2009. the streets didn t look like the streetses in ferguson do now. given that this is a tinder box now, does that account for some of the tone he struck today? well, yeah. also this case is under investigation. the local police won t release the police officer s name. this whole deal has been handled terribly by the local police. i will say it was handled stupidly by the local police. even today the police chief sounded like he wasn t sure who was in charge . you re the chief. you don t know who s doing what out there? thank goodness the governor brought in the state police to help reassure people out there. he s been criticized for waiting so long. president obama didn t want to step right in the middle of this. reminded me of richard nixon commenting on the manson trial. right. he thought it was best to stay back and not say anything. thank you to howard fineman, clarence page. we ll be right back after this. we talked about the two people join angie s list for all kinds of reasons. i go to angie s list to gauge whether or not the projects will be done in a timely fashion and within budget. angie s list members can tell you which provider is the best in town. you ll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare. now that we re expecting, i like the fact i can go onto angie s list and look for pediatricians. the service providers that i ve found on angie s list actually have blown me away. find out why more than two million members count on angie s list. angie s list reviews you can trust. and cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment is right. cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. we talked about the two reporters arrested in ferguson, missouri. here was president obama today, as howard fineman mentioned, discussing incidents of press intimidation. here in the united states of america, police should not be bullying or arresting journalists who are just trying to do their jobs and report to the american people on what they see on the ground. we re back after this. some big breaking overseas news to tell you about. iraqi prime minister nuri al maliki addressed his country tonight and announce he will be stepping down. maliki threw his support behind his nominated replacement. maliki was fighting to keep the job as iraq failed to counter the islamic militant group, isis. if he does step aside, it could end the political deadlock that s ham strung iraq. when we return, back to the tension in ferguson, missouri, something we don t see too often, a republican saying the police have gone too far. be right back. 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(male announcer) today s the day to ask your doctor about levemir® flextouch. covered by nearly all health insurance and medicare plans. that s why i always choose the fastest intern.r slow. the fastest printer. the fastest lunch. turkey club. the fastest pencil sharpener. the fastest elevator. the fastest speed dial. the fastest office plant. so why wouldn t i choose the fastest wifi? i would. switch to comcast business internet and get the fastest wifi included. comcast business. built for business. let me finish tonight with what events like those playing out right now in ferguson, missouri, used to bring out in our politics. two very different, very clear sets of reactions that broke very predictably along ideological lines. for a long time in this country, it was the left that would raise questions and concerns about the tactics and conduct of police, and it was the right that defined itself by its absolute unwavering reverence for all things law enforcement. no matter what. in many ways this is the story of the creation and the rise of the modern political right. which was born in reaction to the turmoil and upheaval of the 1960s and 70s. civil unrest in america s cities, student protesters on campuses. a crime rate that suddenly exploded out of control. it made many americans unease city. it made them nervous. afraid. some of this was understandable. who wouldn t be unsettled if the world around them suddenly became violent? those emotions played right into the hands of the political right which told the fearful americans they could have their security, could have their comfort, could have their country back if we just got tough. if we stopped listening to the lawbreakers, stop trying to understand them as the liberals were trying to. if we stop doing that and crack down firmly and unapologetically, if we did that, it would all be okay. there was a clear racial component to this. no coincidence, that the segregationist alabama governor who ran as independent for president in 1968, he and nixon ran on law and order. talking to the same voters, same white voters who agreed with them that the police were our friend, allies, in this battle with us to protect the america we know. whatever the police need to do, well, that s okay with us. that was a powerful message in this country for a generation. how in the 1970s frank rizzo went from being the police commissioner in philadelphia to being the mayor. he called himself a tough cop. he talked about his patrolmen as an army. he bragged of the vicious and humiliating tactics his forces in the name of law and order and made rizzo a national folk hero on the right. a message that propelled ronald reagan, confronted with student protests when governor of california, drew the hardest of hard lines against them. if it takes a bloodbath, reagan said, let s get it over with. no more appeasement. that was the foundation on which the modern right was built. always, always on the side of police. now, in the tragic shooting by police of and armed black teenager in ferguson, missouri, and a very aggressive response by police in that city to the protesters, we re seeing a very different political reaction in this country. one that s not as predictable and neatly divided as it used to be and driven home this afternoon when time, an essay from rand paul, expressed grave concern about the conduct of scenes in can dem. paul, resemble war more than traditional police action. there s yet a systemic problem with today s law enforcement. used to be that the right never, ever questioned law enforcement. that was something for the criminal coddling liberals. that may be changing now. rand paul is speaking out. question now is who on the right will join him? that s hardball for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. good evening from ferguson, missouri. i m chris hayes. this is all in. it is this area right here about a block and a half away from here that just a few days ago an 18-year-old man, mike brown, was shot. he was unarmed and he was killed by ferguson police officers.
who takes a harder line on putin, iran, syria? how will republicans behave in the booth if forced to vote for a republican, rand paul, who thinks the u.s. is too war-like? all of this is possible. it could happen if hillary clinton sticks to the hard line she voiced in a recent interview with the atlantic and rand paul win it is the republican nomination. think it can t happen? it can. the big question is how party line voters will deal with it. will democrats get hawkish? will republicans get suddenly dovish? talk about changing partners. david korn is here from mother jones magazine. let s watch more of senator paul when nbc s chris jansing interviewed him. let s listen to senator paul. the american public is coming more to where i am and those people, like hillary clinton who fought her own war, hillary s war. people will find and i think that scares the democrats the most. in a general election, were i to run, there is going to be a lot of independents and some democrats who say, you know, we are tired of war. we are worried hillary clinton will get us involved in another middle eastern war because she s gung ho. i hear this fellow and i think wait, that s me talking. we disagree on many domestic issues but war and voter suppression are the problems i have with the right. the way they try to keep minorities from voting and they get us into war and we are stuck in a war in a country like iraq. mr. corn, what do you think when you heard paul talking? you have heard what senator clinton has been saying. i don t think democrats are scared of rand paul as a nominee. i think they would love him to be the nominee. i find it really hard to believe the republican establishment will allow him to become the nominee. it s almost inconceivable. that said, rand paul would have a hard time keeping one-third of the republican base which is the hawkish national security part of the party. whatever he may pick up or believes he might pick up from independence, he s going to lose a lot of republicans should he be the nominee. very few real democrats are going to go rushing into the arms of a guy who wants to destroy government and make abortion illegal just because hillary talks tough. let me go back to gene on that. hillary will probably be the nominee. you put them together. she ll probably be the nominee. she s been hawkish, i think, always i have always sensed she was a hawk. i don t know when i first got that sense. she s talking that way now. she is talking in a hawkish fashion. what david said is basically right except we don t quite know what circumstance wills look like if these two were to be the candidates. how messy will it be in iraq and syria? how deeply will we be involved? if we are involved in a messy conflict as we seem to be sliding toward, let s face it. and if rand paul is a candidate saying i will end this war and hillary clinton is the candidate saying we ve got to push ahead, that does change the dynamic. isn t there a difference? i think there is. between a gut defense of america against a treacherous attack on us, killing the journalist and this geopolitical ambition to rework the middle east. those seem different. maybe one is no smarter than the other. gu gut blood wars like launching against isis now as opposed to the grand notion that got us into the huge mess in the last 10, 12 years which hillary supported which is working the middle east to our advantage which was a terrible idea. i agree. i think hillary clinton is, has always been a hawk or hawkish. one reason might be she might make a political calculation that the first woman president to be elected maybe has to be seen as tougher than less tougher, but i don t believe she s a neo-con out there look ing to start war. given the circumstances we saw in libya and iraq in 2002, her preference might be to support something. i don t think she s actively looking to start wars to fulfill grand strategic ambition the way the neo-cons are. what about gene is right that the circumstances in the world will define what voters want in terms of a hawk, a dove or both. what scares me rs gene, is we all lived through this. i watched jack kennedy become president. he made great decisions like not bringing in air power in the bay of pigs, getting us through the cuban missile crisis without a nuclear war going hot because he didn t have to prove his guts. he proved it in the south pacific. lbj has to prove his guts. that got us into vietnam, 500,000 troops for all those years. a guy trying to prove he has the stones. i don t want a president who says the first thing i have to do is prove i m tough. that s the road to perdition. look what it set us through. w. wanted to be a tough cowboy. lbj wanted to be a texas cowboy. how about less cowboy or cowgirl, if you will, for me? i would rather be angela merkel if you want to be a woman leader who knows how to put it together without war. she s a tough leader, too. hillary clinton has been secretary of state. she s shown herself on the international stage. the question of having to appear tough is more a question for campaign than if they were to become president. i m not sure she would have to demonstrate something about her own firmness just for that sake. her instinct is fairly hawkish. you know, as she looks at the middle east and the projection of u.s. power. it s an interesting moment now. there is a lot of chaos overseas that has americans pretty worked up or at least upset or concerned. they are looking towards obama. what they want is for our president to take care of it. they don t want war. i think they are tired of war. at the same time they don t want chaos. it really leaves open for a very skilled politician to figure out how to deal with a public that wants a leader that will deal with this but without bringing us into a quagmire of a war. not an easy calculation. i m not sure rand paul has a better sense of how to deal with this politically than anybody else. the egyptian military that we are paying most of their bills. the saudi air force, we are giving them fire power. same with jordan. why don t you guys get together and lead your air force in the attack on isis? why do we have to do it from here? you guys don t like isis. show it. contrast between clinton and paul on foreign policy can be stark. clinton include as memo to president obama about russian president vladimir putin and writes, don t appear too eager to work together. don t flatter putin with high-level attention. decline his invitation for a presidential-level summit in moscow in september. contrast that give no quarter approach to rand paul s comments about dealing with putin. some are so stuck in the cold war era they want to tweak russia all the time. i don t think that s a good idea. gene? the question of how to deal with putin when hillary clinton s book was written rand paul was speaking. we seem to have gotten past that. putin has entered a new phase in his relationship with the west and with the united states. no president will be sitting down and having a friendly tea with him soon. but it does say something about the instincts of the two people. let s look at the latest polling on this. we have an nbc-wall street journal number that says 9% of the country want us more active in foreign policy and 47% less. that s pretty clear that the people who want to yell geronimo are few in number. there is no support out there for the john mccain, lindsey grahams of the world who basically want to turn to war whether in syria, iraq, as soon as you can, as fast as you can, whenever you can. they are not that. at the same time we see obama s numbers have gone down a bit with the rise of the international conflict. syria and elsewhere. i think the u.s. expects their president to deal with stuff overseas. we want a leader who comes across as tough, hawkish in rhetoric, but doesn t bring us into war and finds another way of dealing with the situation. that s what s hard in these circumstances and could be even harder in 2016. talk loudly and carry a little stick? could be. anyway, gene, we are the same age. i remember that great character in arsenic and old lace charging down the stairs like charging up san juan hill. that reminds me of lindsey graham and john mccain lately. great men but they are getting whacky sometimes. thank you both. coming up, american and british intelligence are closing in on the man thought to be involved in nurd of james foley. remarkably they say they have i.d. d the mass jihadist seen in the gruesome video of the american journalist execution. what a story that will be. plus, michael brown was laid to rest in st. louis. will the anger of the african-american community lead to an increase in voter turnout in november in the african-american community? i hope so. the prosecutors in the bob mcdonnell case accused the former governor of stonewalling today, refusing to answer questions in the courtroom. finally, you may not have known his name but you knew his voice. it s saturday night live ! that was the great don pardo, the vintage voice of saturday night live. this is hardball, the place for politics. shopping online is as easy as it gets. wouldn t it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple? 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[ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need without any surprise fees. it s not rocket science. it s just common sense. from td ameritrade. i know you are thinking of me and praying for me. i am so thankful. i feel you all especially when i pray. i pray for you to stay strong and to believe. i really feel i can touch you even in this darkness when i pray. we ll be right back. welcome back to hardball. the murder of james foley, an innocent civilian killed only because he was an american increased calls for america to go after the terror group responsible. the president gave voice to desire for revenge last week calling isis a cancer that has no place in the 21st century. officials left open the possibility of expanded air strikes against the group in syria. what is the administration prepared to do? general martin dempsey, chairman of the joint chiefs said he would oppose air strikes because there is no evidence isis is plotting against the united states in this country. meanwhile today in what could be a remarkable feat of intelligence nbc learned u.s. and british counterterrorism officials have identified the man with a british accent in that gruesome video showing foley s murder. can we get him? bobby gaush from quartz and brian from the center for american progress. bobby, what do you think of the question of whether we are going to catch this guy? there are a limited number of british accented islamists over there. they have pretty good intel. maybe the way j. edgar hoover knew all the communists in the united states including his agents pretending to be communists. they seem to be fast on the trail. they have known for a while there is a stream of british nationals going to syria via turkey. they know who the channels are, who is firing the young men up. they know the supply chain. they ve also got plenty of voice. this particular character is a failed rapper and v.j. or deejay. they have a lot of voice tape. they have been able to match it to the tape from jim foley s murder. they have narrowed down the possibility. they have one guy. his name is abdul majid, abdul bari. he lived in london in an up-market neighborhood. quite popular with american ex-pats. it s not the place you would normally expect radical islam. where is where are his roots? in middle east? his father was egyptian. i m not sure what nationality his mother was. his accent is pure british accent. nothing to suggest he was isolated away from the british community, unable to sort of adjust himself. he was a vee krs dst jay and a rapper suggesting he embraced western life. you are willing to risk your life which has some admirable qualities even if i don t like the cause. to be an executioner is an escalation in your moral commitment beyond what most of us can imagine. to be so committed to your hatred of the west that you would execute someone in a staged event, a snuff movie for the world to see. it takes a certain character to go that far in your hatred. what s scary about this is u.s. officials and outside experts estimate there are perhaps 3,000 people from western countries canada, europe, the united states. maybe a hundred from the u.s. perhaps 700 from france. these people are connected by the internet. a lot of these guys are tweeting and facebooking their way to the battlefield doing horrific things. it is an awful situation. we need to get a grip on it. not everybody likes living in america. they don t like the pace of life, competitiveness. they think we are too chauvinistic. i don t think we are worse than anybody else. there is a difference between going back to the homeland or feeling fealty to the culture and coming out and declaring war. on meet the press yesterday, mike rodgers put in stark terms the threat posed by isis. let s watch. it s gone unabated for nearly two years. that draws people to join the fight. they see it as a winning ideology, winning strategy. they want to be a part of it. that makes it dangerous. they are one plane ticket away from u.s. shores. bobby, what do you make of that? that s a stark challenge. i respect mr. rodgers as chair of the committee. what damage can one person do? 9/11 was an almost alistair mclean event. the idea of ark straiting attacks on pilots, killing flight attendants, organizing it so you knew there were only a few men on the plane. they did all the casing. that was an elaborate conspiracy to commit a horrible attack on the united states. that s not to say somebody who doesn t like us couldn t do something. do you think this is an overstatement of the danger here? he has more access to intelligence than you or i do. i hope what he s saying is based on something he s seen or heard. it s worth remembering isis is far more sophisticated than al qaeda was which is somebody to be concerned about. it has a larger pool of people to choose from when it comes to picking people for operations against the west. the last point that s worth making is this is the 21st century. you don t have to come to the american mainland to hurt american interests or americans. even in the middle east there are a huge number of american institutions, organizations. american individuals, hundreds, thousands of american kids go to the middle east to study arabic for instance. egypt, jordan. the student to do harm to america and americans exists all over the world, much closer to where some of the people operate than we think. to make the point that bobby made let s listen. this weekend kier simmons spoke to muslim extremists in london who defended isis. chillingly, the killing of james foley itself. let s listen to the strong, i would say, frightening opinion here. there are a lot of people who would feel the islamic state has a right to defend themselves. killing a journalist isn t protecting yourself. who is really to blame for the death of james foley? i believe it is the foreign policy. it s the man who put the knife in his neck, surely. well, the thing you ve got to ask is why was this particular man chosen? it seems he was chosen because he was an american citizen. there is more of that attitude, brian. it s frightening. one of the guys says he blames us and they have the right to do it. it was basically the message this is justified. this is fair revenge, if you will. it s crazy. i think what needs to be done here is there are counter radicalization efforts in communities in the united states and in europe. some of our best allies are leaders in the muslim communities there. they have worked with the u.s. to counter this. this odious, hateful language after last week s incident needs to be countered in that way. the tip of the spear, we have talked about it, is good law enforcement and intelligence work. a lot of people in washington want to turn to what can we bomb or how can we use the military next? the first step is how to keep ourselves safe through law enforcement. the second step is to get the countries in the region which have more than a thousand combat aircraft, many of which we have given or sold to them, to pull their weight as well. it shouldn t solely be about what we do or what our military does. it s a lesson we should have learned from iraq. how does the president of the united states who hasn t been on the job lately sometimes it seems the president, when he gets his head around this can he wring in the egyptian air force, the jordanian air force, the saudi air force. they don t have to be exactly as good but can t he get them into action against isis which they all say is an enemy. not only the air force. he will need ground troops and perhaps they can contribute as well. we learned today egyptian and uae aircraft have been used to attack islamist targets in libya of all places. if that s possible it can work in egypt. can i make a point about the video we saw? we should call these people on these things. this is nonsense to suggest american foreign policy is responsible. isis has been killing hundreds, thousands of muslim. what foreign policy is responsible for that? they kill anybody they can get their hands on. these are psycho killers. they are not responding to foreign policy. they are responding to something in the brain that is not functioning properly and makes them want to do this to fellow human beings. do you think that recruits them? for years we have been pro israeli in this country for a lot of reasons. moral, political. the, of supporting israel. has that driven the arab people crazy more than they have ever been driven crazy by a consistent policy or the challenge to western culture, women wearing short dresses, working, the culture of the west which they see as sinful. what s the mix that leads to anger? it s a large community and the vast majority of them are perfectly well adjusted people who want nothing more than what you and i want out of life. it s a small minority. it s organizations that exploit these things. the business about israel and palestine, there are many ways to respond and many arabs responding in peaceful ways, political ways. trying to make things happen. there is a small minority that responds in this way. there is a network of individuals and organizations who make it their business to recruit, brainwash and unleash these people into their own communities doing most of the harm in their own communities. they are killing arabs. nothing to do with israel in slaughtering 500 prisoners of war in mosul which is what isis did. almost all of them muslims. israel and palestine had nothing to do with it. these people are playing out some primitive sadistic fantasy that we should recognize for what they are. they are a sophisticated and dangerous organization. what they are not is religiously or politically motivated. let s not give them credit they don t deserve. thank you for cutting through the crap here. brian, you as well. remember the voice that defined saturday night live for nearly 40 years. the great don pardo. we ll be right back. back to hardball. time for the sideshow. saturday night live, as we know, launched the careers of eddie murphy, john belushi, chris rock, dana carvey, bill murray, darryl hammond who did me all those years. recently tina fey, jimmy fallon, seth meyers who have their own shows on nbc. last week we lost the voice of snl, the guy we heard every week at the split second we realized they were here to grab us in the weird world between reality and the absurdity it represented. the look and feel of the show may have changed but that voice remained. it s saturday night live ! dan aykroyd, john belushi, chevy chase, jane curtin. it s saturday night live ! it s saturday night live. kristen wiig, andy sandberg, bill hader. it s saturday night live with vanessa bayer, aidy bryant. that was the great don pardo, the veteran tv announcer of 76 years who died last week at age 96. snl cast members say their first mention was one of the greatest of their lives. bobby moynahan says i heard don par do say my maim for the first time. i cried until the 16th. here is to lorne michaels who had the savvy to pick this voice. from the old days of broadcasting to give an opening blessing to the new kids on the block. promising from the beginning that this show, this great snl would itself become part of tv history. don pardo, it s saturday night. here s what s happening. did you know a ten-second test could help your business avoid hours of delay caused by slow internet from the phone company? that s enough time to record a memo. idea for sales giveaway. return a call. sign a contract. pick a tie. take a break with mr. duck. practice up for the business trip. fly to florida. win an award. close a deal. hire an intern. and still have time to spare. go to comcastbusiness.com/ checkyourspeed if we can t offer faster speeds - or save you money - we ll give you $150. comcast business. built for business. welcome back to hardball. with the police shooting of michael brown in ferguson, missouri, and the aftermath over the last 16 days has highlighted how race relations can be strained to the breaking point. while the streets of ferguson may have quieted, anger over brown s death continues in a community that believes it is a victim of injustice. november is just ten weeks from now. according to a pew research poll last week it varies widely by party i.d., 68% of democrats believe it raises important issues about race compared to 22% of republicans. considering that could anger over the case motivate more african-american voters to turn up this november? joining me now is democratic congressman elijah cummings and margie omara. the greatest registrar of african-american voters in philadelphia history where i grew up was the existence of frank rizzo, the tough police commissioner who was seen as too darn tough on black people. he had the night stick and all that. the big military hardware he brought in tanks and everything. i m very familiar. that got people to register in a higher percentage than white people. with all that s going on and marked today by the sad funeral there might be a side effect. your thoughts. let me express my sympathy to the brown family and the ferguson community. you re absolutely right, chris. first of all, ferguson, missouri , we have fergusons all over the country. there are a lot of pent-up frustrations on the part of african-american people and hispanics with regard to the kind of incident we saw happen in ferguson. what happens is i think these incidents become more or less a wake-up call. i have often said in time a moment will happen that can then be turned into a movement. i think you will see a surge in not only voter registration but voter participation. people realize it s one thing to be upset and angry and frustrated. it s another thing to harness the energy and make change happen. so i believe that s what s going to happen here. you know, margie, we have gone over the map many times. the minority community has a big impact. though you can only affect your own congressman you can affect the electoral college for president. if a member of congress wants to get people outraged and they are get them voting. it seems this would be a weapon to do it with. there are states whether it s the georgia senate race, louisiana, arkansas, north carolina where a boost in minority turn out could impact the election. i think there is a common myth that lower turn out among minorities, or women boosts or oh lifts up democratic prospects. that s not actually true. in 2006 the percentage of the electorate that was african-american was identical to the percent in 2010. you had different results in the midterm elections. i think it is incumbent upon democrats and voters to really turn out. democrats need to reach out to voters across the board. i agree. i agree with that completely. we have to have what i call a revolution of inclusion. people who are like-minded. you cannot turn this around, chris, just with african-american people. we have to see more whites, hispanics and others joining together with african-americans to create that majority to address some of the issues. one of the things that was so heartening right after the brown incident happened is that when they did a panoramic view of the rallies around the country you saw a lot of white people involved. i thought that was good. it means they, too, recognize that there is an issue that needs to be addressed and the more people we can get involved in, i believe the more effective and efficient we can be. you make the case. you and i grew up with the fact that it was police dogs in birmingham. right. when the white people of the north, when they saw that by people who were white they said, that s not my crowd. i think the dogs i remember. those pictures on television of dogs biting people and fire hoses being used against people in protests warned everybody in a way they had never been warned before that this is evil, what s going on down there. it reminded them that this is bigger than white or black. it s about all of us. it s about diversity. i believe diversity is the promise and not our problem. well said. what is going to excite the voters if you are african-american if not this situation? i saw the church today. there was a lot of amening and a lot of emotion. it was tears. it seems to me the pictures there is the mother, of course. i just think there are so many people. it wasn t just reverend sharpton we know so well. it was so profoundly important to people there. they weren t just concerned about one death in a community. they were concerned about something else. i wonder if it are will go across the country? you certainly don t have to be african-american to be out raged at what happened, not just the shooting but the aftermath and handling. i think a lot of the outrage comes not just from the tragedy but it s obviously different than how it was years ago as you mentioned. the pew poll, there are other polls showing real racial division and reaction to the shooting, reaction to whether the police went too far, reaction to the protesters. i think that s also where a lot of outrage comes where people feel we are not really understanding each other. not really able to view each other the prospective. we saw in the o.j. case the community reaction. when it comes to reaction in fergie son, politico reported hillary clinton oy voided questions about miking brown during a book signing yesterday. two reporters called out questions to clinton about her thoughts on ferguson after she had wrapped up at books & books on han street in westhampton beach. clinton ignored the questions and kept walking toward the rear entrance of the bookstore. what do you make of that? is shh this something leaders have to talk about and they just can t skip? i think leaders have to talk about it. keep in mind a large percentage of the electorate of oh african-americans and when you look at the democratic side is very significant. people want their leaders to speak to their hopes and dreams and values. they want to know that people feel that is, elected people feel their pain and will turn the pain into a passion to carry out a purpose of making their lives better. so i think they have to address the issues. one last thing. the governor of missouri was talking about security and safety. the thing that upset most people is they began to talk about underfunded and underperforming schools. a lot of this is about education and jobs. yes. significant. they are tied together. a lot of pent-up emotions are in our african-american communities all over the country. i say that every time to people about the blocks i grew up in north philly. they are now african-american rather than irish or polish. there are no jobs there. the factories are gone. that means the government has to step in. it s one of my rants. i agree. it s an honor to have you here. margie, i always learn something from you. up next, bob mcdonnell has problems. he took the stand in his own defense against the corruption charges he faces. now it s the prosecution s turn to cross examine the former governor. their questions won t be easy for this fellow. this is hardball, the place for politics. she inspires you. no question about that. but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment s right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. ever since we launched snapshot, my life has been positively cray-cray. what s snapshot, you ask? only a revolutionary tool that can save you big-time. just plug it in, and the better you drive, the more cash you ll stash. switching to progressive can already save ye $500. snapshot could save ye even more. meat maiden! bringeth to me thine spiciest wings of buffalo. if you re not visiting new hampshire you re probably not running for president. rick perry made that pilgrimage there this weekend. it was his first visit, of course. according to a report from nbc news and u.s. news and world report rand paul, chris christie, paul ryan and marco rubio made a combined 40 trips to new hampshire and iowa this time around. that s four times more than their democratic counterparts who include vice president joe biden and brian shh wiser, hillary clinton has not made stops to iowa nor new hampshire yet. we ll be right back. we are back. well, the prosecution in former virginia governor bob mcdonnell s corruption trial cross examined him today and they came out swinging. mcdonnell testified last week his marriage was so broken it was impossible to conspire. his wife to take money and gifts from a wealthy virginia ceo. today the prosecution took aim at the governor s testimony, asking mcdonnell whether he s denying key facts in the case. tweeted, cross-examination of mcdonnell from the start. palpable tension between governor mcdonnell and prosecutor dry on cross impact courtroom. even a judge drew impatient with the former governor and answers on the stand. according to a live blog, judge james spencer scolded mcdonnell raising his voice, that doesn t answer the question. i m pressing you here because i don t want to get into this pattern after a question and a ten-minute answer. robert mccartney, follow the trial closely since its opening days and katie glueck, politico. katie, we have to go to you, you were there. first of all, this charge by the governor, former governor, his wife was somehow a bit nutty. is this as low as he s gotten in terms of throwing her under the bus? well, we have certainly seen a lot of throwing maureen mcdonnell under the bus over the last week. in fact, that s the central element of the defense s plan. their argument essentially is that the two mcdonnells could not have been conspireing together that s because they were hardly speaking. their marriage was a mess. they re really pinning a whole lot of blame on we continue to see the same testimony from bob mcdonnell last week and stood by that in the cross-examination. wouldn t the women and men on the jury, especially the women everybody s got an interesting marriage, to put it lightly, who s married. wouldn t they want this woman on the chair at some point, just in fairness after being whacked so hard by her husband and the lawyers? wouldn t they say darn it, why don t we hear from her? she s a person. and she s being charged here. certainly, well, and certainly will be interesting to see the extent to which there are any gender dynamics that play out down the road. that s obviously been one point in which some observers looked to. maureen mcdonnell is not expected to testify and bob mcdonnell s lawyers and her lawyers are sticking with this broader argument that she was the one so intimately involved in the conversations with this businessman. she was the one who was making these offers and not bob mcdonnell, the elected official. they re sort of taking this yeah, i m sorry. katie, this is a crazy case, robert. i mean, here you have the defense team putting all the blame on one of the defendants and basically saying they re a little screwy, need medication. and she s supposed to sit there with a dunce cap on and accepting this as a route to freedom. serves both their interests. if they can make this thing stick, they can say he didn t know what was going on because she was doing it all behind his back and you can t convict her because she s not a public official, so how can you nail her on public corruption charges? but i think a real low point or a tough point, i d say, for bob mcdonnell today on the stand, he s been saying that the marriage was, you know, basically over, that it was a broken marriage. they were barely communicating. and they pointed out that during, in 22 months in office, he and maureen went on 18 vacations together. so, and they also showed three photos of them, you know, holding hands and looking happy, sometimes coming to and from court. so they are definitely hitting him on this whole idea that the marriage was broken. well, this will do wonders for sandals who says you get along better on vacations. he s bogarting, as i say, to answers, every time you ask him a question, he gives you ten minutes of faloffle instead of the direct answering. that s in keeping of what we ve seen from judge spencer over the last couple weeks. he has not hesitated to tell anyone to get to the point. he s made it clear he s on the jury s side. they ve been here for weeks hearing all kinds of testimony. some of it has been very interesting but some of it has also been a little bit more focused on financial information, on numbers. he s looking out for them, wants everyone, whether it s the lawyers or next governor to get to the point. what have you learned as a young journalist on this case of american politics? anything strike you that surprised you in covering this factually or whatever? it s been an interesting trial to keep tabs on it and be in richmond for it. as we were talking about earlier, a soap opera nature of this case. where you to see a former governor who was thought to be a leading contender to be the vice presidential nominee for mitt romney who was thought to have a path to the presidency, himself, now in a position where he s really sort of speaking in such kind of graphic terms about the state of his marriage. really an example of how far he s fallen and a shocking one to see a national figure kind of fall so far from grace. we ll see if that s able to save him eventually. robert, can you tell which way this trial going at this point, after all these weeks? can you sense it? well, i personally will be surprised if the bob mcdonnell wins not guilty on all counts. i think he s quite personally, i think he s quite vulnerable, especially on the charge of making a false statement to banks. yeah. and personally, i thought that the there are so many contradictions and sort of convenient rationalizations in his own defense for himself that he might go down on the one or more of the corruption charges as well. okay. but the real weakness, of course, in that is that, you know, they didn t give that much to jonnie williams and there s sort of an argument over whether what they gave jonnie williams constituted an official act. so, that s very fuzzy, that part of it. we re out of time. great hearing from you, robert mccartney and katie glueck. thank you so much, and we ll be right back. 0% real milk? 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[ female announcer ] lactaid. 100% real milk. no discomfort. come on, would i lie about this? that s why i always choose the fastest intern.r slow. the fastest printer. the fastest lunch. turkey club. the fastest pencil sharpener. the fastest elevator. the fastest speed dial. the fastest office plant. so why wouldn t i choose the fastest wifi? i would. switch to comcast business internet and get the fastest wifi included. comcast business. built for business. let me finish tonight with the funeral in st. louis today. the death of michael brown has ingendered anger. the question is whether it will bring justice, whether it will bring change. true justice will take time, clear-headed minds and consciences. the other question whether the tragedy marked today will bring change, change in the policing of our cities and the way police treat minorities. the number one thing people can do is show up on election day and cast your ballot for people you trust, to act as a citizen, especially in those local elections that are easy, too easy to skip. the elections that lack the fire cracker excitement of a presidential campaign. ferguson can become a code word for change. and that would be good. that s hardball for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight, we are all in. we will demand equal justice for michael brown jr. the calls for justice continue, as thousands gather to lay michael brown to rest. michael brown s blood is crying from the ground. tonight, the latest from ferguson. plus, the latest on why darren wilson s last police department was completely disbanded and what communities can do when policing gets out of control. the only thing that messes up good apples is if you don t take the rotten apples out of the bushel. then senator chris murphy on the recent acquisition in the simmering war between russia and ukraine. the hunt for the killer of
millions of immigrants to illegal status to this country. the action is expected to explode within days or hours of the decision. it is a time of conflict and troubling time and important time to follow what is going on most importantly the facts of each issue. even as people see the manners of historic importance the devil will be in the details especially for those trying desperately to find the ground of truth that lies in the middle. democratic from massachusetts and republican from north carolina, the co-sponsor of the legislation, north dakota. let me start with you. you are a co-sponsor of the bill. why is it so important to the country that we have this pipeline completed? it s about energy. it s about jobs. it s baseball economic growth and an energy plan for the country which is a national security issue. the american people support this project. every time it is polled 60% to 70% of the american public says build the pipeline. how many permanent jobs? the state department says about 42,000 jobs and permanent jobs. not building the pipeline but after it is built? 42,000 during construction, direct and indirect. unions across the country are supporting this project because they want those jobs. i hear it is 35 jobs after the pipeline is completed? is that accurate? if you are talking about jobs monitoring the pipeline that may be but there are other jobs on direct and indirect basis. the other thing about it is you are talking about the energy industry which is foundational to our other industry sectors. low cost dependable energy that we produce here makes all of our other sectors stronger and our economy stronger in a global economy. where is the oil going to go that goes down through the pipeline? where will it go from the ultimate market after it goes from canada? according to department of energy report it will be used here in our country. that s not me saying it. that is the obama administration s department of energy. let me go to senator. why is it important not to build the pipeline? well, first of all, it s the dirtiest oil in the world. and then canada waupts to build a pipeline through the united states of america down into the gulf coast where their intention is to export that oil right out of our country. how do i know that? because i asked the canadian government and i asked the oil industry if they would accept the amendment to keep all of the oil in the united states and they said they would absolutely oppose it. i brought that to vote twice on the floor of the congress. both times i was opposed by the oil industry and i lost. if we are going to be exporting young men and women to the mist in order to escort tankers of oil coming back from arab nations the least we should do if we are going to have a pipeline that goes through our country is that oil should stay in the united states of america. and at the same time we should also have to win. for energy efficiency and the republicans are killing the kind of incentives for alternative energy while supporting a pipeline out of our country for the dirtiest oil in the world. here is speaker boehner talking about this. he ripped into your side for the president s threat to veto the legislation if it passed tonight. here he is, john boehner. a keystone pipeline veto would send the signal that this president has no interest in listening to the american people. vetoing an overwhelmingly popular bill would be an indication that he doesn t care about the american people s priorities. it would be equivalent of calling the american people stupid. do you think that is true that the patrol is calling american people stupid for believing in the pipeline. it seems 60% want the pipeline. a much higher percentage want gun control yet congress doesn t support gun control. what is this idea if you don t agree with somebody they are stupid. american public, 60% to 70% in poll after poll says they want the project approved. it really is about getting energy that we produce here in our country and working with our closest friends and ally canada. remember the oil in this pipeline is not only for canada but states like north dakota which produces 1.2 million barrels a day. this pipeline will replace 1,400 rail cards a day that are clogging up our railroads and it displaces oil that we are bringing in from places like venezuela which has the same carbon foot print or higher. even crews in california have the same greenhouse gas emissions. it makes sure we don t have to depend on the middle east for oil. that is why the american public supports it. it is more complicated. the speaker says the president is calling the people stupid and called opponents no brainers. i said approving it is a no brainer. i m not calling anybody stupid. i am being very careful to make sure i don t. to me it is so simple. it seems like the president veto will hold next year because i look to the numbers there are only four switches of senate seats that had gone to the pro pipeline position. it seems they won t get the 67. they are not going to get the 290 members. do you think he should veto next year? yes i do. until we discuss this issue rationalry. the last 355 months of temperatures on the planet have been warmer than the average meaning that if you re 29 years old in the united states of america you have never known a month where global warming was not intensifying. so this is a big debate. it s not just about climate change. it s about keeping energy in the united states here and not allowing the canadians to export it. it is about our national security. we are still importing today just about the same amount as we did 40 years ago when we put the ban on crude oil exports on the books. so we need a big debate here. and it has to include wind and solar, energy efficiency, all the things the republicans in this congress have blocked from going through. if you are going to have a debate it can t be just about oil above oil. it has to be about all of the above. you have to have every energy issue out there. the republicans just want to do the business of the fossil fuel industry. if you are the koch brothers you are in kansas and look at the prairies and see the instruction of your business model because wind power is coming. they want to kill it and keep us addicted to coal and other fossil fuels. we need a big debate. the next generation, the younger generation demands that we have this debate for their children and their grandchildren. it sounds like we hearing from the new york times the need for some kind of deal here. is there going to be some kind of larger energy issue? you are saying you have a key road here. we are absolutely going to bring this up next year. we are going to have more than 60 votes and we may get to even 67 votes. you need 290 in the house, as well. understand there is a number of options here. we could combine it with other energy legislation or work with an appropriations measure. we are going to get there. we are picking up more what will you give up to get the 290 in the house and 67 in the senate? you know you are going to have to negotiate to get more votes. you don t have the 67 in your own body. there are people on both sides of the aisle talking about working with us on legislation which we may combine with this bill to get to the 67 vote threshled. i want to respond to something. if you want an all of the above energy plan really you have to build the infrastructure to do it. that means pipeline and rail and road. i would invite him to come to my state where we not only do oil and gas and coal but wind and bio fuels and we do bio mass and renewables as well as fossil fuels. you have to have the infrastructure to get it done. if you want all of the above you have to bring the wind in off the prairies. you have to bring it in off of the coast line. you have to be deploying solar panels. what the republicans are doing right now is holding up the extension of the tax credit which led to the creation of 80,000 jobs in this country in the production of new wind turbines. we have 142,000 people in the solar industry. there are only 70,000 coal minors. 80,000 in wind. and yet these tax breaks could be dead on december 31 of this year. that s really what this debate is all about. it s not all of the above. it s about oil above all. everything that was just mentioned goes to infrastructure for the fossil fuel industry. you never hear them saying let s pass the tax breaks for renewable energy industry. i know north dakota is lucky in fuel and wind. why wouldn t you support this measure? i think it is very likely that that will be included as part of the tax extender package. i believe we need to get a package done before the end of the year. what we believe in as republicans is that you produce all of the above by encouraging investment and not holding up permits for six years so that the industry can t invest billions of dollars to put the latest greatest technology out there not only to produce more energy but do it with better environmental stewardship. building a pipeline to send oil out of the united states makes no sense as it warms the planet dangerously. that is just the bottom line on this debate. thank you very much. coming up in the wake of the isis horror the obama administration is reviewing its hostage policy. that s pretty interesting. and it won t change the policy of paying ransoms. what will be the new policy? is the current policy the right one? should the u.s. government pay to bring hostages home or should families be allowed to pay ransom to free their own loved ones. it is a hot debate and coming up next on hardball. louisiana s mary landrieu pushed hard for today s vote for the keystone. polling shows it is an uphill battle. . u.s. congressman bill cassidy, republican in that race has a 21 point lead over senator landrieu. cassidy 59. landrieu 38. that planes why the democratic party isn t going all out to help landrieu down there. could be a question of blood flow. cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment is right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. a broader mix of energies, world needs which is why we are supplying natural gas, to generate cleaner electricity, that has around 50% fewer co2 emissions than coal. and why with our partner in brazil, we are producing a biofuel made from renewable sugarcane to fuel cars. let s broaden the world s energy mix, let s go. mand i m a troubleman for pg&e. i ve been with pg&e for 17 years and i work in vallejo. i grew up in vallejo and this is where i want to be. i ride my truck around on the same hills i rode my bike around when i was a kid. as a troubleman, if your power goes out, you call and here i am. i feel like my job is important because all the people in this community are people that i know. my family is vallejo too so i need to make sure it s safe for them. when i pull up to a house, i want customers to know i m there to help. we need to get the power back on, that s our job. you get a good feeling from fixing stuff. welcome back to hard ball. there are reports that the white house ordered a review of how united states deals with americans being held hostage. the most aspect is the insistence that the u.s. does not pay ransom to terrorists. the families of american journalists were reportedly advised by someone in the white house they could be prosecuted if they tried to pay a ransom. three of the four americans had been beheaded. the latest was a 26-year-old aid worker who was dedicated to helping victims of the syrian civil war. one american female aid worker remains captive. 15 others were released after their governments paid ransom. an average of $2.5 million according to the new york times. should the united states reconsider the policy of not paying ransom? joan wallace and sarah short is a visiting scholar at uc berkeley. she was held prisoner in iran for 410 days. i want to get to you in a moment, sarah. joan, what should be united states policy when someone there in the islamic state or anywhere in the east say we want x number of millions of dollars for the safe release of someone. i think we need to stick with the policy we have around ransom. i think isis is stitting on $125 million because they were able to get european countries to pay the ransom. the new york times did a fabulous investigation looking at the way al qaeda raised tens of millions from european nations and concluded that kidnapping europeans has become the primary business model for al qaeda. it goes into financing the operations that we are trying to fight. so my heart goes out to the families of these people who have been murdered and my heart goes out to sarah, too, for what she endured and she may have a different point of view. i thipg what we do if we cave on this is create a bigger market for hostage taking. what happens if somebody has a lot of money and they say 6 million i will have the check in the mail tonight? should our law enforcement people criminalize that act? what should they say in that particular case? i have a problem with the idea that people are talking to grieving anxious terrified parents and threatening lawsuits or threatening prosecution. that seems heavy handed to me and seems like there are other ways to go about that. on the other hand, if you let families willy-nilly if they have the means pony up their own ransoms then you are setting up a situation where if i don t have the money my daughter is murdered and somebody who is wealthy their daughter or son comes home intact. i don t pretend this is an easy issue. if i were a grieving horrified parent i would be doing everything in my power to bring her home. i believe you in everything because you make the point if it was you you would have a different perspective. tell me about your experience. take a minute or two or more and tell us your experience as a captive and the way you felt if you could overhear this conversation when you were in captivity what would you think about it? well, the way that i felt when i was being held hostage by the iranian government is that i didn t think it was likely that my government was going to do what the iranian government was asking of it. i didn t know what they were asking but i knew it probably had to do with the prisoner swap. i felt differently once i was released. my release was negotiated by the government. it was a veiled ransom called a bail. after i was released my now husband and friend were still being held captive. i was at the center of the campaign and worked very closely with the government. eventually they paid another million dollars for my husband and friend. we were all freed. now, what i think is really important with this debate is that we start from the very honest place. the u.s. government says they don t pay ransom to get hostages freed. now, in my case the government paid the ransom but i know for a fact that they never would have taken that action without approval from the u.s. government. that is how politics work. the government did the u.s. government a favor and they will someday cash that in and get a favor in return. if the argument against paying ransom is that we don t want to put money in the hands of groups like isis or al qaeda what difference does it make if the u.s. government is giving permission to third parties to pay ransom? the money is getting into those hands. in each of the cases there shouldn t be a blanket policy. the policy is obviously not working. there is an increase in these cases. you know what you are talking about here. what would work? the trouble people have is we can pay $5 million to get someone back. they will grab another westerner and ask for more. they will grab another american and ask. it s like a bubble gum machine. they are going to keep grabbing people. it is transaction without end. if we give them $100 million and never behead another person that might be a decent deal there. no more beheadings for 100 million. there is no end to it. it is kidnapping and it is blackmail and blackmailers never get enough never. i do want to say in my mind there is a distinction between what sarah went through and the outcome of sarah s situation where the country of iran did something reprehensible and were suffering in the eyes of the world. it was a terrible thing that they did and shouldn t have done it and were presented with ways to get out of this mistake. now, are they great humanitarians? no. i think when you are dealing with a country that is part of the world community not our friends but we have diplomatic interests there and so do they, i think that is a slightly different situation. i want to be clear, to my knowledge and to the knowledge of western reporters the united states is not winking at anybody giving money or ransom to al qaeda or isis. i think sarah is absolutely right that they do wink sometimes in different sorts of situations but giving money specifically i think it is possible to draw a distinction between giving money in these awful situations and when you are dealing with a state actor. i want to say i love your work on solitaire confinement. sarah, why don t you respond to what secretary of state john kerry as he defended the policy of not giving money. as for kidnapping, the united states has set a heart rending but absolutely necessary example by refusing to pay ransom for captured americans. all of the evidence shows that where and if a country is paid a ransom there are many more people who are taken hostage. your response? let s address the issue of the money. many reports show that the islamic state is making a million dollars a day from its so-called government and business activities. this terrorist group is not desperately in need of money the way al qaeda is. $6.6 million would be a good day for isis but wouldn t make or break the organization. so i don t think that the money is as valuable to the islamic state as the propaganda is proven to be. it is escalated violence and gained them recruits. the vast, vast majority of muslims condemn and consider acts completely unislamic. there are a portion of radicals in arab countries like every country of the world that will be emboldened by the propaganda. my argument is that $6 million, $10 million is nothing compared to the damage that has been done by these videos that isis has created from these beheadings. to respond to senator kerry, i do want to respond saying i think there is a distinction when you are dealing with a rogue government and a rogue terrorist group. i think the u.s. government there have been many cases, raymond davis in pakistan, a cia operative accused of murder. within weeks he was facing execution. there was a blood money paid to the family of the murdered. no one knew where the money came from. all i m saying is when the u.s. government wants to get their people out whether cia operatives, military officials they find a way. they do it through back channels. i want the u.s. government to be more honest about its policy and safe guard the work of aid workers and journalists as much as it does cia and fbi operatives. in my own case working closely with the u.s. government i was privy to dozens of meetings in the white house and state department. because there is no consistent policy on how to deal with the hostage cases we saw finger pointing again and again. in the same day we meet with somebody in the state department and they say you have to go to the white house. we go to the white house and they send us back to the state department. what i want to see is a more consistent policy, less finger pointing and less inaction. as we can see inaction leads to lost time and lost times leads to lost lives. thank you very much. well said. we hope everybody paid attention to that. it is more complicated than i thought. stating what is the united states position right now. we will be right back after this. the attendees at the summit oh, i love game night. ooh, it s a house and a car! so far, you re horrible at this, flo. yeah, no talent for drawing, flo. house! car! oh, raise the roof! no one? remember when we used to raise the roof, diane? oh, quiet, richard, i m trying to make sense of flo s terrible drawing. i ll draw the pants off that thing. oh, oh, hats on hamburgers! dancing! drive-in movie theater! home and auto. lamp! squares. stupid, dumb. lines. [ alarm rings ] no! home and auto bundle from progressive. saves you money. yay, game night, so much fun. the attendees at the summit have to come up with a better way to show unity than dressing the same. you are world leaders, not bridesmaids. if we have to dress like that when we go there when they come here they have to dress in traditional american garb. time for the side show. that was bill mahr. that wasn t the only photo op. president obama also travelled to australia to meet with the leaders of the g-20. here is jimmy fallon on that gathering last night. at the g-20 summit this weekend politicians took a break from saving the world to do photoops. check out these world leaders who have never shaken hands before. what? put your hand on red, left hand on yellow. spin it. it seems like republicans and democrats disagree on just about everything these days. now a new study reveals the two parties differ when it comes to their first names. analyzes which names are hoar likely to belong to a member of one political party over another. people named duane, dalton or brittany are more likely to be republicans while people named natasha ethan or dylan are more likely to be democrats. there is plenty of room in the middle. most names are pleasantly bipartisan. mitt romney reflects on his unsuccessful 2012 bid for president in a speech where he revealed new details about the kind of advice he got while campaigning. according to romney one supporter encouraged him to grow a beard so he could look in his words more sexy. one of the best and worst things about a campaign is you get a lot of advice. usually several times a day someone in an audience would hand me a letter with the 100% sure fire way for me to win an election. i was told to take bigger steps when i walk to show i m young and athletic. another person said i should stop shaving for a few days to look more sexy, as if i needed that. up next the round table in the big fights next week. president obama and the democrats win the first round but there is much more to come. and we are still expecting president obama s executive president obama s executive order. the conference call. the ultimate arena for business. hour after hour of diving deep, touching base, and putting ducks in rows. the only problem with conference calls: eventually they have to end. unless you have the comcast business voiceedge mobile app. it lets you switch seamlessly from your desk phone to your mobile with no interruptions. i ve never felt so alive. get the future of phone and the phones are free. comcast business. built for business. an israeli policeman is the fifth person to die. three israeli americans and a britain died at the scene. a powerful winter storm in parts an israeli policeman is the welcome back. time for the round table. we are going to dig into today s hot issues. first keystone vote and then to all kinds of things. the senate failed to get the 60 votes needed to go along with constructing the pipeline. this is the first skirmish in a series of epic battles and the president who is the leader of the democrats. president obama s ordered review of the u.s. hostage policy. some families members of hostages have criticized the obama administration for the no ransom stance. the round table tonight consists of radio talk show host joe madison. susan page, i have known her forever. david cornen here. the keystone pipeline is red hot with people like senator. they are able to keep the vote from passing tonight. we have that pipeline if completed would be 125th of 1% of u.s. oil pipe lines in this country. why the heat on this issue? i really don t know other than you have i think environmentalists on one side that are arguing and then you have the big oil companies in the united states that are arguing. i read an article the other day where these mega oil barrens are saying it s too late. you should have done this six or eight years ago and there is a glut of oil already on the market. that s like gasoline. i like cheap oil but if you are an investor you don t like it. one issue why it has become symbolic sort of bigger than it is because this is the opening of a certain type of oil exploration using oils that give off 17% more greenhouse emissions than conventional oil. the environmentalists said we have to try to stop this early in the process and they this is a type of oil exploration we have to prevent. for them it is not just what the pipeline is going to do but the fact that it is pioneering a new type of oil extraction. that is why they have so much. republicans made a big deal out of it because they inflate the jobs numbers. they found a baseball bat they thought they could hit obama with even though it is 50 full time jobs after the two-year of constructing. let me go to you on this. it seems to me that this is like fracking. the further you go. nobody says we run out of anything. every time you go deeper and deeper or go to different sources or fracking to get the gas out you are making it more environmentally pollutive. you just are. if we were going to grab this stuff years ago we would have done it. we would get cheaper oil from other means. it is a more carbon intensive fuel. if it is largely a symbolic fight between environmentalists and republicans why have it? why not fight about things that are actually going to make an immediate difference on the environment or why not cut a deal that gives the approval for the keystone pipeline and gets concessions on some other thing that makes a difference. the new york times says he is up to that. he can stop it by vetoing it. they are not going to get the 290 votes in the house. they are going to get the 60 votes. not going to get 67. they are going to get to 60 in the new year. they will send it to him and he vetoes it. why do we keep having big symbolic fights? because both sides like to fight. i theng the strategy here is to nip a certain technology in the bud. they will move the oil by truck or whatever or by rail. they might but that does increase the cost. the reason they want to do this is because it is cheaper and easier. if they take away those incentives particularly with the price of oil dropping world wide it makes this oil less attractive. let s talk about something very human. after i think i said this the other night when i see a beheading of an american on video if somebody put a button in front of me that says kill every isis fighter i would push it. i bounce around emotionally. it seems like a hopeless war. the iraqis are run by iranians. there is no syrian free army. we are pounding by air and our guys are getting beheaded every couple of weeks. why not pay off? i m asking it because we have to ask every question. we have a policy don t pay kidnapers. some countries do. but then here is the problem. if my child was taken you heard joan wallace say that. if my child was taken i would go how much. you would go to the koch brothers to get the money to save your kid. that is the point. what if they say i want 2 million. you go to anybody. if you mortgaged say you are a popular person in the neighborhood, everybody mortgage their house and you wouldn t have enough money and would never be able to pay it back. the person who wants the ransom is the one that sets the price. that s the thing. they have negotiated these deals. there have been several journalists who have come out and have been very quiet about how they worked this out of afghanistan in particular. no doubt some news organizations have paid for journalists. and as sarah pointed out, too, when she got out with shane and her friend they were covered by the government which paid $1.5 million. i m not sure it was a pass through but they knew they would get $1.5 million in chips from washington. we all understand the logic of that. we hope it means they don t grab more americans. there still is room for subactivity. you think they wouldn t pay them? i think they have and i think they would try to. doesn t the u.s. policy it is heartbreaking when you see these individuals. there is no question about that. would it serve larger interests if we negotiated with terrorists? wouldn t it help fund terrorist activities? i abide the u.s. argument on this. maybe there should be a reduced value in taking hostage. what is the better pr for them, to behead people or take the money? behead people. the terror of beheading people. that is what has all of us talking about it. if we were paying ransom for americans and more got taken doesn t it help them, as well? we have become a cash cow for them. it comes back to what we can do to stop this. i don t know what obama and kerry and dempsey and others are thinking about when they get together. what is our policy to end this war successfully with isis? is there one? that s a big question because as you mentioned the free syrian army it seems to have collapsed at least in the north and the militia there they don t want to fight isis. they want to fight assad. we say we want to train them. we did the americans helped and the iraqis and kurds. a long-term strategy here given all of the divisive elements that are intrafighting themselves seems nearly impossible. why don t we take the position of just leave? everybody leave. let them all fight themselves? that is a mood that they keep beheading people. get everybody out. i wonder how many missionaries are floating around in the towns. i don t know how much picking they can find of people to behead. isn t the lesson of 9/11 that you can t withdraw and expect there not to be repercussions for the united states and america? i agree with you. i am being somewhat sarcastic about it. red china was a reality. is isis going to become a reality? the round table is staying with us. when we return we will talk about a huge confrontation with president obama s executive order. this is hardball. tomorrow on the program senator john mccain. we will talk about his new book and about the new republican majority in the senate. it will be an interesting discussion about demand and the concern and belief in national fighting men. as i said we will be talking to senator john mccain about his new book and his respect for america s fighting men and get to other news in that interview. we are back with our round table. let s talk about this president and what we are walking into this sort of storm. a very unpleasant storm. we will have a black/white issue coming up. probably we don t know what the verdict is. a white cop and black teenager. it will be a hot one. we have the president throwing what some are calling a grenade. as i said, we will be talking with senator john mccane. some other big news. back with our round table, joe, susan and david. you re goirng to be living in a country where people recognize freedom, emancipation, the reality is he can t do much about ferguson. let s be very honest about that. he can be the moral leader. if we have disturbances. and i m hoping we don t. if we had disturbances, he will go forward. look, you guys have got to stop. a peaceful demonstration is what we need. do you think holder did a good job? i think holder did an excellent job. i was there. the biggest problem you have in ferguson are not the citizens, for the most part. it s provok xxs. who don t care about the president. they don t care about ferguson. they don t care about the media. they are just provok xxs. any time you have a situation of rifle, civil disruption. there s a certain kind of people that get in their car and arrive. they like that edginess. that license with bad behavior. at the same time, you need to make sure that the police there handle it the right way. and if there are provok xxs, that they are trained to sprat them. and that s what changed it in ferguson. that wasn t what happened in the beginning. it sounds like the authorities there know what they re doing. now. boy, it s a hard way to learn a lesson. maybe it s an opportunity to show that things are different from that first spade of demonstrations when you had that big, militarized response to peaceful demonstrations. you ll see. this is going to be a test. you know, in the court system, back in another e the 50s, he was the dean of the court reporters. and he would tell me about the cops. he was no right winger. he would say when they had black kids and braught them in, they beat them up in the car. not that they weren t guilty of crime. they just beat them up in the car. on my show this morning x we talked about the fact that a young, black yoout will be killed 21 times more than a white teenager by a policeman in america. he faces a lot of danger. they re supposed to be teenagers. oh, i know. a big disparity in ferguson. we have a story in tomorrow s paper that shows 1600 police departments have disparities that are wider than that in ferguson across this country. is that just father-son, irish tradition of being police officers, fire fighters in new york. is it an african american rate that s up to the population? for example, i don t get why the city there is so totally wliet and why the police force is stow tally white when you have a large, black community. or because of the politicians that run the city. kbauz people don t vote. that s kpraktly why. and kant dats don t run. people don t vote. people don t get politically engaged. i remember one argue. was when they started having city council meetings after the disturbances of the places packed. one man stood up and said look, i ve been coming to these meetings and this is more people than i ve seen in 30 years. listen, attorney general nominee, loretta lynch was involved in the case which wasn t that long ag. ferguson already had these problems. this has just been indemic. i mean, not everything is the same, but isn t that sort of story of the american history. community groups, ethnic groups, blacks were here before anybody, but they get involved to protect themselves. you know the largest register of voets was in the history of philadelphia? frank rizzo. he was seen as anti-black. everybody registered. it was a higher percentage of black voters than whooit voters because of him. my first job was toe go into philadelphia and stop him from changing the city charter so he could run for consecutive terms. squl you succeeded. big time. he didn t get that third term. he kept running, though, right, at the end? i think protecting your community is one of the reasons why people vote. it s not to get ahead. it s to hold together. there s some self interest in voting. it holds us together. it s going to say that ferguson is not only not different from the rest of the country, it s not as bad as many as 1600. in theceps of a disparity in if rate of blacks and whites being arrested. you re three times more likely to be arrested in ferguson if you re black than why. and then you have on the other side, the disparity in sentencing. which we talked about for a long time. and den cats on the congress and senate have addressed it, as well. it s not necessarily all racism. joe, good to see you. always. good luck in doing your part on this. congratulations, everybody. you ll be safely on the left. good luck with the newspaper tomorrow. when we return, let me finish the celebration for those opposing the cole stone public. it will be a good one today. you re watching hardball , the place for politics. hey matt, what s up? i m just looking over the company bills. is that what we pay for internet? yup. dsl is about 90 bucks a month. that s funny, for that price with comcast business, i think you get like 50 megabits. wow that s fast. personally, i prefer a slow internet. there is something about the sweet meditative glow of a loading website. don t listen to the naysayer. switch to comcast business today and get 50 megabits per second for $89.95. comcast business. built for business. let me finish tonight with a celebration for those celebrating the keystone pipeline. it looks like they ll be able to beat it again next year. the numbers are not there for an override of an expected veto by president obama. the vote got 59 senators today. they ll need 67 for a veto override. thanks to the voters, stl be back to the public. that s four plus 59, which makes the 6 p, four votes short of a veto override. in the house, there s no way they re anywhere near the 290 votes needed to override next year. it looks like president obama is the victor in the first round. it s always better to win the first one. one. that s hardball for now. all in with chris hayes starts right now. unfortunately, we came up one vote short on the keystone pipeline today. pipeline blocked. keystone proponents fall short in the senate. speaker of the house warned the president not to block the bill. 28d be e kwif lent of calling the american people stupid. then, bloodshed in jerusalem. four rabbis, including three americans, killed inside a synagogue. plus, protesters bracing for a decision in ferguson. and digging up dirt. an executive at ub, e rrksz suggests hiring a team to dig into the personal lives of his media critics. the culture of this company is so rotten.
the big fights are on the immediate horizon. the president expected executive order and welcoming perhaps millions of immigrants to illegal status to this country. the action is expected to explode within days or hours of the decision. it is a time of conflict and troubling time and important time to follow what is going on most importantly the facts of each issue. even as people see the manners of historic importance the devil will be in the details especially for those trying desperately to find the ground of truth that lies in the middle. democratic from massachusetts and republican from north carolina, the co-sponsor of the legislation, north dakota. let me start with you. you are a co-sponsor of the bill. why is it so important to the country that we have this pipeline completed? it s about energy. it s about jobs. it s baseball economic growth and an energy plan for the country which is a national security issue. the american people support this project. every time it is polled 60% to 70% of the american public says build the pipeline. how many permanent jobs? the state department says about 42,000 jobs and permanent jobs. not building the pipeline but after it is built? 42,000 during construction, direct and indirect. unions across the country are supporting this project because they want those jobs. i hear it is 35 jobs after the pipeline is completed? is that accurate? if you are talking about jobs monitoring the pipeline that may be but there are other jobs on direct and indirect basis. the other thing about it is you are talking about the energy industry which is foundational to our other industry sectors. low cost dependable energy that we produce here makes all of our other sectors stronger and our economy stronger in a global economy. where is the oil going to go that goes down through the pipeline? where will it go from the ultimate market after it goes from canada? according to department of energy report it will be used here in our country. that s not me saying it. that is the obama administration s department of energy. let me go to senator. why is it important not to build the pipeline? well, first of all, it s the dirtiest oil in the world. and then canada waupts to build a pipeline through the united states of america down into the gulf coast where their intention is to export that oil right out of our country. how do i know that? because i asked the canadian government and i asked the oil industry if they would accept the amendment to keep all of the oil in the united states and they said they would absolutely oppose it. i brought that to vote twice on the floor of the congress. both times i was opposed by the oil industry and i lost. if we are going to be exporting young men and women to the mist in order to escort tankers of oil coming back from arab nations the least we should do if we are going to have a pipeline that goes through our country is that oil should stay in the united states of america. and at the same time we should also have to win. for energy efficiency and the republicans are killing the kind of incentives for alternative energy while supporting a pipeline out of our country for the dirtiest oil in the world. here is speaker boehner talking about this. he ripped into your side for the president s threat to veto the legislation if it passed tonight. here he is, john boehner. a keystone pipeline veto would send the signal that this president has no interest in listening to the american people. vetoing an overwhelmingly popular bill would be an indication that he doesn t care about the american people s priorities. it would be equivalent of calling the american people stupid. do you think that is true that the patrol is calling american people stupid for believing in the pipeline. it seems 60% want the pipeline. a much higher percentage want gun control yet congress doesn t support gun control. what is this idea if you don t agree with somebody they are stupid. american public, 60% to 70% in poll after poll says they want the project approved. it really is about getting energy that we produce here in our country and working with our closest friends and ally canada. remember the oil in this pipeline is not only for canada but states like north dakota which produces 1.2 million barrels a day. this pipeline will replace 1,400 rail cards a day that are clogging up our railroads and it displaces oil that we are bringing in from places like venezuela which has the same carbon foot print or higher. even crews in california have the same greenhouse gas emissions. it makes sure we don t have to depend on the middle east for oil. that is why the american public supports it. it is more complicated. the speaker says the president is calling the people stupid and called opponents no brainers. i said approving it is a no brainer. i m not calling anybody stupid. i am being very careful to make sure i don t. to me it is so simple. it seems like the president veto will hold next year because i look to the numbers there are only four switches of senate seats that had gone to the pro pipeline position. it seems they won t get the 67. they are not going to get the 290 members. do you think he should veto next year? yes i do. until we discuss this issue rationalry. the last 355 months of temperatures on the planet have been warmer than the average meaning that if you re 29 years old in the united states of america you have never known a month where global warming was not intensifying. so this is a big debate. it s not just about climate change. it s about keeping energy in the united states here and not allowing the canadians to export it. it is about our national security. we are still importing today just about the same amount as we did 40 years ago when we put the ban on crude oil exports on the books. so we need a big debate here. and it has to include wind and solar, energy efficiency, all the things the republicans in this congress have blocked from going through. if you are going to have a debate it can t be just about oil above oil. it has to be about all of the above. you have to have every energy issue out there. the republicans just want to do the business of the fossil fuel industry. if you are the koch brothers you are in kansas and look at the prairies and see the instruction of your business model because wind power is coming. they want to kill it and keep us addicted to coal and other fossil fuels. we need a big debate. the next generation, the younger generation demands that we have this debate for their children and their grandchildren. it sounds like we hearing from the new york times the need for some kind of deal here. is there going to be some kind of larger energy issue? you are saying you have a key road here. we are absolutely going to bring this up next year. we are going to have more than 60 votes and we may get to even 67 votes. you need 290 in the house, as well. understand there is a number of options here. we could combine it with other energy legislation or work with an appropriations measure. we are going to get there. we are picking up more what will you give up to get the 290 in the house and 67 in the senate? you know you are going to have to negotiate to get more votes. you don t have the 67 in your own body. there are people on both sides of the aisle talking about working with us on legislation which we may combine with this bill to get to the 67 vote threshled. i want to respond to something. if you want an all of the above energy plan really you have to build the infrastructure to do it. that means pipeline and rail and road. i would invite him to come to my state where we not only do oil and gas and coal but wind and bio fuels and we do bio mass and renewables as well as fossil fuels. you have to have the infrastructure to get it done. if you want all of the above you have to bring the wind in off the prairies. you have to bring it in off of the coast line. you have to be deploying solar panels. what the republicans are doing right now is holding up the extension of the tax credit which led to the creation of 80,000 jobs in this country in the production of new wind turbines. we have 142,000 people in the solar industry. there are only 70,000 coal minors. 80,000 in wind. and yet these tax breaks could be dead on december 31 of this year. that s really what this debate is all about. it s not all of the above. it s about oil above all. everything that was just mentioned goes to infrastructure for the fossil fuel industry. you never hear them saying let s pass the tax breaks for renewable energy industry. i know north dakota is lucky in fuel and wind. why wouldn t you support this measure? i think it is very likely that that will be included as part of the tax extender package. i believe we need to get a package done before the end of the year. what we believe in as republicans is that you produce all of the above by encouraging investment and not holding up permits for six years so that the industry can t invest billions of dollars to put the latest greatest technology out there not only to produce more energy but do it with better environmental stewardship. building a pipeline to send oil out of the united states makes no sense as it warms the planet dangerously. that is just the bottom line on this debate. thank you very much. coming up in the wake of the isis horror the obama administration is reviewing its hostage policy. that s pretty interesting. and it won t change the policy of paying ransoms. what will be the new policy? is the current policy the right one? should the u.s. government pay to bring hostages home or should families be allowed to pay ransom to free their own loved ones. it is a hot debate and coming up next on hardball. 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[ tapping ] sounds good. campbell s healthy request. m m! m m! good.® louisiana s mary landrieu pushed hard for today s vote for the keystone. polling shows it is an uphill battle. . u.s. congressman bill cassidy, republican in that race has a 21 point lead over senator landrieu. cassidy 59. landrieu 38. that planes why the democratic party isn t going all out to help landrieu down there. we ll be right back. you can get out of the c-max hybrid. it s about how much life you can fit into it. the ford c-max hybrid. with an epa-estimated range of 540 miles on a tank of gas. and all the room you need to enjoy the trip. go stretch out. go further. dad,thank you mom for said this oftprotecting my future.you. thank you for being my hero and my dad. military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa auto insurance could be one of them. if you re a current or former military member or their family, get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. thank you. ordering chinese food is a very predictable experience. i order b14. i get b14. no surprises. buying business internet, on the other hand, can be a roller coaster white knuckle thrill ride. you re promised one speed. but do you consistently get it? you do with comcast business. and often even more. it s reliable. just like kung pao fish. thank you, ping. reliably fast internet starts at $89.95 a month. comcast business. built for business. welcome back to hard ball. there are reports that the white house ordered a review of how united states deals with americans being held hostage. the most aspect is the insistence that the u.s. does not pay ransom to terrorists. the families of american journalists were reportedly advised by someone in the white house they could be prosecuted if they tried to pay a ransom. three of the four americans had been beheaded. the latest was a 26-year-old aid worker who was dedicated to helping victims of the syrian civil war. one american female aid worker remains captive. 15 others were released after their governments paid ransom. an average of $2.5 million according to the new york times. should the united states reconsider the policy of not paying ransom? joan wallace and sarah short is a visiting scholar at uc berkeley. she was held prisoner in iran for 410 days. i want to get to you in a moment, sarah. joan, what should be united states policy when someone there in the islamic state or anywhere in the east say we want x number of millions of dollars for the safe release of someone. i think we need to stick with the policy we have around ransom. i think isis is stitting on $125 million because they were able to get european countries to pay the ransom. the new york times did a fabulous investigation looking at the way al qaeda raised tens of millions from european nations and concluded that kidnapping europeans has become the primary business model for al qaeda. it goes into financing the operations that we are trying to fight. so my heart goes out to the families of these people who have been murdered and my heart goes out to sarah, too, for what she endured and she may have a different point of view. i thipg what we do if we cave on this is create a bigger market for hostage taking. what happens if somebody has a lot of money and they say 6 million i will have the check in the mail tonight? should our law enforcement people criminalize that act? what should they say in that particular case? i have a problem with the idea that people are talking to grieving anxious terrified parents and threatening lawsuits or threatening prosecution. that seems heavy handed to me and seems like there are other ways to go about that. on the other hand, if you let families willy-nilly if they have the means pony up their own ransoms then you are setting up a situation where if i don t have the money my daughter is murdered and somebody who is wealthy their daughter or son comes home intact. i don t pretend this is an easy issue. if i were a grieving horrified parent i would be doing everything in my power to bring her home. i believe you in everything because you make the point if it was you you would have a different perspective. tell me about your experience. take a minute or two or more and tell us your experience as a captive and the way you felt if you could overhear this conversation when you were in captivity what would you think about it? well, the way that i felt when i was being held hostage by the iranian government is that i didn t think it was likely that my government was going to do what the iranian government was asking of it. i didn t know what they were asking but i knew it probably had to do with the prisoner swap. i felt differently once i was released. my release was negotiated by the government. it was a veiled ransom called a bail. after i was released my now husband and friend were still being held captive. i was at the center of the campaign and worked very closely with the government. eventually they paid another million dollars for my husband and friend. we were all freed. now, what i think is really important with this debate is that we start from the very honest place. the u.s. government says they don t pay ransom to get hostages freed. now, in my case the government paid the ransom but i know for a fact that they never would have taken that action without approval from the u.s. government. that is how politics work. the government did the u.s. government a favor and they will someday cash that in and get a favor in return. if the argument against paying ransom is that we don t want to put money in the hands of groups like isis or al qaeda what difference does it make if the u.s. government is giving permission to third parties to pay ransom? the money is getting into those hands. in each of the cases there shouldn t be a blanket policy. the policy is obviously not working. there is an increase in these cases. you know what you are talking about here. what would work? the trouble people have is we can pay $5 million to get someone back. they will grab another westerner and ask for more. they will grab another american and ask. it s like a bubble gum machine. they are going to keep grabbing people. it is transaction without end. if we give them $100 million and never behead another person that might be a decent deal there. no more beheadings for 100 million. there is no end to it. it is kidnapping and it is blackmail and blackmailers never get enough never. i do want to say in my mind there is a distinction between what sarah went through and the outcome of sarah s situation where the country of iran did something reprehensible and were suffering in the eyes of the world. it was a terrible thing that they did and shouldn t have done it and were presented with ways to get out of this mistake. now, are they great humanitarians? no. i think when you are dealing with a country that is part of the world community not our friends but we have diplomatic interests there and so do they, i think that is a slightly different situation. i want to be clear, to my knowledge and to the knowledge of western reporters the united states is not winking at anybody giving money or ransom to al qaeda or isis. i think sarah is absolutely right that they do wink sometimes in different sorts of situations but giving money specifically i think it is possible to draw a distinction between giving money in these awful situations and when you are dealing with a state actor. i want to say i love your work on solitaire confinement. sarah, why don t you respond to what secretary of state john kerry as he defended the policy of not giving money. as for kidnapping, the united states has set a heart rending but absolutely necessary example by refusing to pay ransom for captured americans. all of the evidence shows that where and if a country is paid a ransom there are many more people who are taken hostage. your response? let s address the issue of the money. many reports show that the islamic state is making a million dollars a day from its so-called government and business activities. this terrorist group is not desperately in need of money the way al qaeda is. $6.6 million would be a good day for isis but wouldn t make or break the organization. so i don t think that the money is as valuable to the islamic state as the propaganda is proven to be. it is escalated violence and gained them recruits. the vast, vast majority of muslims condemn and consider acts completely unislamic. there are a portion of radicals in arab countries like every country of the world that will be emboldened by the propaganda. my argument is that $6 million, $10 million is nothing compared to the damage that has been done by these videos that isis has created from these beheadings. to respond to senator kerry, i do want to respond saying i think there is a distinction when you are dealing with a rogue government and a rogue terrorist group. i think the u.s. government there have been many cases, raymond davis in pakistan, a cia operative accused of murder. within weeks he was facing execution. there was a blood money paid to the family of the murdered. no one knew where the money came from. all i m saying is when the u.s. government wants to get their people out whether cia operatives, military officials they find a way. they do it through back channels. i want the u.s. government to be more honest about its policy and safe guard the work of aid workers and journalists as much as it does cia and fbi operatives. in my own case working closely with the u.s. government i was privy to dozens of meetings in the white house and state department. because there is no consistent policy on how to deal with the hostage cases we saw finger pointing again and again. in the same day we meet with somebody in the state department and they say you have to go to the white house. we go to the white house and they send us back to the state department. what i want to see is a more consistent policy, less finger pointing and less inaction. as we can see inaction leads to lost time and lost times leads to lost lives. thank you very much. well said. we hope everybody paid attention to that. it is more complicated than i thought. stating what is the united states position right now. we will be right back after this. wethey were a littlehorizons to mbit skeptical.ss, what they do actually is rocket science. but at ge capital we also bring expertise from across ge, like lean process engineers we asked who does what, when, where, and why that step first? 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oh, right. you re thinking of the 1.6 million daily customer care interactions xerox handles. or the 900 million health insurance claims we process. so, it s no surprise to you that companies depend on today s xerox for services that simplify how work gets done. which is.pretty much what we ve always stood for. with xerox, you re ready for real business. which is.pretty much what we ve always stood for. they take us to worlds full of heroes and titans. for respawn, building the best interactive entertainment begins with the cloud. this is titanfall, the first multi-player game built and run on microsoft azure. empowering gamers around the world to interact in ways they never thought possible. this cloud turns data into excitement. this is the microsoft cloud. the attendees at the summit have to come up with a better way to show unity than dressing the same. you are world leaders, not bridesmaids. if we have to dress like that when we go there when they come here they have to dress in traditional american garb. time for the side show. that was bill mahr. that wasn t the only photo op. president obama also travelled to australia to meet with the leaders of the g-20. here is jimmy fallon on that gathering last night. at the g-20 summit this weekend politicians took a break from saving the world to do photoops. check out these world leaders who have never shaken hands before. what? put your hand on red, left hand on yellow. spin it. it seems like republicans and democrats disagree on just about everything these days. now a new study reveals the two parties differ when it comes to their first names. analyzes which names are hoar likely to belong to a member of one political party over another. people named duane, dalton or brittany are more likely to be republicans while people named natasha ethan or dylan are more likely to be democrats. there is plenty of room in the middle. most names are pleasantly bipartisan. mitt romney reflects on his unsuccessful 2012 bid for president in a speech where he revealed new details about the kind of advice he got while campaigning. according to romney one supporter encouraged him to grow a beard so he could look in his words more sexy. one of the best and worst things about a campaign is you get a lot of advice. usually several times a day someone in an audience would hand me a letter with the 100% sure fire way for me to win an election. i was told to take bigger steps when i walk to show i m young and athletic. another person said i should stop shaving for a few days to look more sexy, as if i needed that. up next the round table in the big fights next week. president obama and the democrats win the first round but there is much more to come. and we are still expecting president obama s executive order. music .the getaway vehicle! for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this. there was no question she reminds you every day. but your erectile dysfunction-that could be a question of blood flow. cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment is right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. [ mony mony by billy idole she cokicks in on car stereo]y . don t stop now come on mony come on yeah i say yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah cause you make me feel like a pony so good like your pony so good ride the pony the sentra, with bose audio and nissanconnect technology. spread your joy. nissan. innovation that excites. an israeli policeman is the fifth person to die. three israeli americans and a britain died at the scene. a powerful winter storm in parts of new york where snow closed a 130-mile stretch of highway. up to six feet could fall in some areas. safety regulators calling for a recall of driver s side air bags made by a company takata. welcome back. time for the round table. we are going to dig into today s hot issues. first keystone vote and then to all kinds of things. the senate failed to get the 60 votes needed to go along with constructing the pipeline. this is the first skirmish in a series of epic battles and the president who is the leader of the democrats. president obama s ordered review of the u.s. hostage policy. some families members of hostages have criticized the obama administration for the no ransom stance. the round table tonight consists of radio talk show host joe madison. susan page, i have known her forever. david cornen here. the keystone pipeline is red hot with people like senator. they are able to keep the vote from passing tonight. we have that pipeline if completed would be 125th of 1% of u.s. oil pipe lines in this country. why the heat on this issue? i really don t know other than you have i think environmentalists on one side that are arguing and then you have the big oil companies in the united states that are arguing. i read an article the other day where these mega oil barrens are saying it s too late. you should have done this six or eight years ago and there is a glut of oil already on the market. that s like gasoline. i like cheap oil but if you are an investor you don t like it. one issue why it has become symbolic sort of bigger than it is because this is the opening of a certain type of oil exploration using oils that give off 17% more greenhouse emissions than conventional oil. the environmentalists said we have to try to stop this early in the process and they this is a type of oil exploration we have to prevent. for them it is not just what the pipeline is going to do but the fact that it is pioneering a new type of oil extraction. that is why they have so much. republicans made a big deal out of it because they inflate the jobs numbers. they found a baseball bat they thought they could hit obama with even though it is 50 full time jobs after the two-year of constructing. let me go to you on this. it seems to me that this is like fracking. the further you go. nobody says we run out of anything. every time you go deeper and deeper or go to different sources or fracking to get the gas out you are making it more environmentally pollutive. you just are. if we were going to grab this stuff years ago we would have done it. we would get cheaper oil from other means. it is a more carbon intensive fuel. if it is largely a symbolic fight between environmentalists and republicans why have it? why not fight about things that are actually going to make an immediate difference on the environment or why not cut a deal that gives the approval for the keystone pipeline and gets concessions on some other thing that makes a difference. the new york times says he is up to that. he can stop it by vetoing it. they are not going to get the 290 votes in the house. they are going to get the 60 votes. not going to get 67. they are going to get to 60 in the new year. they will send it to him and he vetoes it. why do we keep having big symbolic fights? because both sides like to fight. i theng the strategy here is to nip a certain technology in the bud. they will move the oil by truck or whatever or by rail. they might but that does increase the cost. the reason they want to do this is because it is cheaper and easier. if they take away those incentives particularly with the price of oil dropping world wide it makes this oil less attractive. let s talk about something very human. after i think i said this the other night when i see a beheading of an american on video if somebody put a button in front of me that says kill every isis fighter i would push it. i bounce around emotionally. it seems like a hopeless war. the iraqis are run by iranians. there is no syrian free army. we are pounding by air and our guys are getting beheaded every couple of weeks. why not pay off? i m asking it because we have to ask every question. we have a policy don t pay kidnapers. some countries do. but then here is the problem. if my child was taken you heard joan wallace say that. if my child was taken i would go how much. you would go to the koch brothers to get the money to save your kid. that is the point. what if they say i want 2 million. you go to anybody. if you mortgaged say you are a popular person in the neighborhood, everybody mortgage their house and you wouldn t have enough money and would never be able to pay it back. the person who wants the ransom is the one that sets the price. that s the thing. they have negotiated these deals. there have been several journalists who have come out and have been very quiet about how they worked this out of afghanistan in particular. no doubt some news organizations have paid for journalists. and as sarah pointed out, too, when she got out with shane and her friend they were covered by the government which paid $1.5 million. i m not sure it was a pass through but they knew they would get $1.5 million in chips from washington. we all understand the logic of that. we hope it means they don t grab more americans. there still is room for subactivity. you think they wouldn t pay them? i think they have and i think they would try to. doesn t the u.s. policy it is heartbreaking when you see these individuals. there is no question about that. would it serve larger interests if we negotiated with terrorists? wouldn t it help fund terrorist activities? i abide the u.s. argument on this. maybe there should be a reduced value in taking hostage. what is the better pr for them, to behead people or take the money? behead people. the terror of beheading people. that is what has all of us talking about it. if we were paying ransom for americans and more got taken doesn t it help them, as well? we have become a cash cow for them. it comes back to what we can do to stop this. i don t know what obama and kerry and dempsey and others are thinking about when they get together. what is our policy to end this war successfully with isis? is there one? that s a big question because as you mentioned the free syrian army it seems to have collapsed at least in the north and the militia there they don t want to fight isis. they want to fight assad. we say we want to train them. we did the americans helped and the roiraqis and kurds. a long-term strategy here given all of the divisive elements that are intrafighting themselves seems nearly impossible. why don t we take the position of just leave? everybody leave. let them all fight themselves? that is a mood that they keep beheading people. get everybody out. i wonder how many missionaries are floating around in the towns. i don t know how much picking they can find of people to behead. isn t the lesson of 9/11 that you can t withdraw and expect there not to be repercussions for the united states and america? i agree with you. i am being somewhat sarcastic about it. red china was a reality. is isis going to become a reality? the round table is staying with us. when we return we will talk about a huge confrontation with president obama s executive order. this is hardball. kid: do you pay him? dad: of course. kid: how much? dad: i don t know exactly. kid: what if you re not happy? does he have to pay you back? dad: nope. kid: why not? dad: it doesn t work that way. kid: why not? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab tomorrow on the program senator john mccain. we will talk about his new book and about the new republican majority in the senate. it will be an interesting discussion about demand and the concern and belief in national fighting men. 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[singing] mony mony a is. as i said we will be talking to senator john mccain about his new book and his respect for america s fighting men and get to other news in that interview. we are back with our round table. let s talk about this president and what we are walking into this sort of storm. a very unpleasant storm. we will have a black/white issue coming up. probably we don t know what the verdict is. and a black teenager, it s going to be a hot one. and then, right in the middle, some people are calling a grenade. the president is sayings i can t get anything for congress. okay, i ll do it my way. i m going to basically legalize most of the people here are doing it legally. basically, he s writing immigration law. and the question is what kind of country are we living in? you re goirng to be living in a country where people recognize freedom, emancipation, the reality is he can t do much about ferguson. let s be very honest about that. he can be the moral leader. if we have disturbances. and i m hoping we don t. if we had disturbances, he will go forward. look, you guys have got to stop. a peaceful demonstration is what we need. do you think holder did a good job? i think holder did an excellent job. i was there. the biggest problem you have in ferguson are not the citizens, for the most part. it s provok xxs. who don t care about the president. they don t care about ferguson. they don t care about the media. they are just provok xxs. any time you have a situation of rifle, civil disruption. there s a certain kind of people that get in their car and arrive. they like that edginess. that license with bad behavior. at the same time, you need to make sure that the police there handle it the right way. and if there are provok xxs, that they are trained to sprat them. and that s what changed it in ferguson. that wasn t what happened in the beginning. it sounds like the authorities there know what they re doing. now. boy, it s a hard way to learn a lesson. maybe it s an opportunity to show that things are different from that first spade of demonstrations when you had that big, militarized response to peaceful demonstrations. you ll see. this is going to be a test. you know, in the court system, back in another e the 50s, he was the dean of the court reporters. and he would tell me about the cops. he was no right winger. he would say when they had black kids and braught them in, they beat them up in the car. not that they weren t guilty of crime. they just beat them up in the car. on my show this morning x we talked about the fact that a young, black yoout will be killed 21 times more than a white teenager by a policeman in america. he faces a lot of danger. they re supposed to be teenagers. oh, i know. a big disparity in ferguson. we have a story in tomorrow s paper that shows 1600 police departments have disparities that are wider than that in ferguson across this country. is that just father-son, irish tradition of being police officers, fire fighters in new york. is it an african american rate that s up to the population? for example, i don t get why the city there is so totally wliet and why the police force is stow tally white when you have a large, black community. or because of the politicians that run the city. kbauz people don t vote. that s kpraktly why. and kant dats don t run. people don t vote. people don t get politically engaged. i remember one argue. was when they started having city council meetings after the disturbances of the places packed. one man stood up and said look, i ve been coming to these meetings and this is more people than i ve seen in 30 years. listen, attorney general nominee, loretta lynch was involved in the case which wasn t that long ag. ferguson already had these problems. this has just been indemic. i mean, not everything is the same, but isn t that sort of story of the american history. community groups, ethnic groups, blacks were here before anybody, but they get involved to protect themselves. you know the largest register of voets was in the history of philadelphia? frank rizzo. he was seen as anti-black. everybody registered. it was a higher percentage of black voters than whooit voters because of him. my first job was toe go into philadelphia and stop him from changing the city charter so he could run for consecutive terms. squl you succeeded. big time. he didn t get that third term. he kept running, though, right, at the end? i think protecting your community is one of the reasons why people vote. it s not to get ahead. it s to hold together. there s some self interest in voting. it holds us together. it s going to say that ferguson is not only not different from the rest of the country, it s not as bad as many as 1600. in theceps of a disparity in if rate of blacks and whites being arrested. you re three times more likely to be arrested in ferguson if you re black than why. and then you have on the other side, the disparity in sentencing. which we talked about for a long time. and den cats on the congress and senate have addressed it, as well. it s not necessarily all racism. joe, good to see you. always. good luck in doing your part on this. congratulations, everybody. you ll be safely on the left. good luck with the newspaper tomorrow. when we return, let me finish the celebration for those opposing the cole stone public. it will be a good one today. you re watching hardball , the place for politics. o and my dad. military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa auto insurance could be one of them. if you re a current or former military member or their family, get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. as the company that s all about printing. but did you know we also support hospitals using electronic health records for more than 30 million patients? or that our software helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure e-mail every month? or how about processing nearly $5 billion in electronic toll payments a year? in fact, today s xerox is working in surprising ways to help companies simplify the way work gets done and life gets lived. with xerox, you re ready for real business. and life gets lived. twhat do i do?. you need to catch the 4:10 huh? the equipment tracking system will get you to the loading dock. there should be a truck leaving now. i got it. now jump off the bridge. what? in 3.2.1. are you kidding me? go. right on time. right now, over 20,000 trains are running reliably. we call that predictable. thrillingly predictable. and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night,nd. and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24, a circadian rhythm disorder that affects up to 70 percent of people who are totally blind. talk to your doctor about your symptoms and learn more by calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com. don t let non-24 get in the way of your pursuit of happiness. let me finish tonight with a celebration for those celebrating the keystone pipeline. it looks like they ll be able to beat it again next year. the numbers are not there for an override of an expected veto by president obama. the vote got 59 senators today. they ll need 67 for a veto override. thanks to the voters, stl be back to the public. that s four plus 59, which makes the 6 p, four votes short of a veto override. in the house, there s no way they re anywhere near the 290 votes needed to override next year. it looks like president obama is the victor in the first round. it s always better to win the first one. one. that s hardball for now. all in with chris hayes starts right now. continue on all in. unfortunately, we came up one vote short on the keystone pipeline today. pipeline blocked. keystone proponents fall short in the senate. speaker of the house warned the president not to block the bill. 28d be e kwif lent of calling the american people stupid. then, bloodshed in jerusalem. four rabbis, including three americans, killed inside a synagogue. plus, protesters bracing for a decision in ferguson. and digging up dirt. an executive a
sanders lands the record of indonations in march and a big surprise issue of 2016. the national heroin epidemic. i ll talk to one young mayor about his city s controversial plan to create legal injection sites. first, i have often predicted the political demise of donald trump. this time i might be right. he ended political hell week. his campaign manager was arrested for misdemeanor battery, he flip-flopped on abortion and said controversial things about nukes and wisconsin and polls have him trailing ted cruz by ten points. among women, his disapproval is bias mall. 73% of women disapprove. after wisconsin the next big prizes are new york on april 19 and pennsylvania on april 26th. yes, recent polls show trump leading his home state by a large margin but on a close race with john kasich in pennsylvania and here is the unpleasant truth for trump. both states have rules that put power in the hands of the party, which is not a good thing for mr. trump. in new york, a change last year by the republican state committee allows the party, not the candidates to select delegates. the new process is intended to reward long-time party loyalists who might not be trump supporters, and in pennsylvania most delegates are elected by voters without any indication of who they support. with no requirement that they follow the will of the electret. in other words, at a time when donald trump hoping to seal the deal. he s about a enter a phase where the gop development can further. if he arrives with the delegates required, i don t think he leaves town with the nomination, which is why tuesday is such an important vote. joining me now is the host of cnn s inside politics john king. john, what happens if donald trump loses wis is? well, that would give the stop trump forces a big win because wisconsin stands alone. donald trump in first place 739 delegates. ted cruz a distant second at 460. rubio still third. kasich in the race and he s fourth right now. so let s just look at wisconsin. donald trump spending the weekend there maybe can turn the tide and get the state back. if he does that, the stop trump movement will lose steam because so much time and money was spent. let s assume we had two polls showing ted cruz with a ten-point lead. let s assume that s correct. if you win statewide by ten points, you not only get statewide but win most congressional districts. let s assume cruz wins them all, 42 maybe 36 or 30 something. let s assume for the sake of the argument that cruiz gets most o them. what happens? trump stays static and cruz starts to inch up. does that mean trump is done? no, it means he suffered a big loss in a big midwestern battle ground and will change the conversation as we head to what donald trump hopes is the fire wall home in new york. but it doesn t sound like you re saying hey, he can t get to 1237 if he loses wisconsin. no, but it would be a huge challenge. let s assume he gets shutout in wisconsin. then we move on to new york. here is one scenario. the polls, there have been a couple but one poll out that shows donald trump above 50%. we ll see if we get newer polling. if trump stays above 50% in new york, that would be all 95 of the delegates in new york and would make wisconsin go away a little quicker because if donald trump gets shutout in wisconsin, he could win them all in new york then he s out here again at 834 on his way and michael, if he gets that he needs 53% of the remaining delegates. easy to do? absolutely not. is it conceivable? it is. you have big states coming. if donald trump can get them all in new york, it would make the pain of wisconsin go away but that s the big question. let me give you another scenario. let s assume cruise wins wisconsin and gets momentum and trump falls under 50% in new york. let s say trump wins with 45%. then he is splitting the delegates. maybe john kasich comes in second and ted cruz in third but they take away at least half of the delegates. that s where it gets fascinating because then trump is in the lead but if he doesn t get all 95, if he splits them, instead of 53%, now he would need 60% of the remaining tell gdelegates a, doable but difficult but in the stop trump movement, if they take winner take all in new york, they think they got him. they think if that happens, they are going to an open convention. it sounds as if we re about to enter the most fascinating part of the race. john, thank you and tomorrow morning a special one-hour edition of inside politics appreciate it. thank you. now, the wisconsin primary looms large for my next guest, ohio governor john kasich needs to do well there. on one hand polls have him the only of the three gop candidates beating hillary clinton. but he s also won only one state and some are saying he actually helps trump by staying in the race. others including carl rove are suggesting the convention may need to nominate an all together new candidate. john kasich joins me now. is this the week the trump campaign jumped the shark? well, there s no way i m going to predict that. i just know there was things said this week that not just the abortion but using nuclear weapons in europe and loose talk about it in the middle east and withdrawing from nato. these are things that show that mr. trump is unprepared. i do understand that trump voters concerns about their economic future and their children s. he caught a lot of flak for what he said about abortion and flip flapped but wasn t he correct in the first round? in other words, if a person, i ll take him at face value, why not? no, i just don t i don t. i don t agree with that. i don t think it s appropriate. you believe row versus wade, correct me if i m wrong michael. i know. yeah, i told you what i think about it. i think it was inappropriate, period end of story. let s move on. i ll move on but you got to give me one more crack at this because i want to hear the answer. if abortion should be ill egg wi illegal, shouldn t it follow the process? pro-life and pro-choice movement said that s where you look at clinics or whatever but you don t lay this on women. it s a tough enough situation for them, end of story. governor, callers to my radio program when they talk about john kasich, your ears ought to ring. they use words like substance, civility but then they say how is he going to win? what s the answer to that question? look, we ll go to an open convention, no question. i don t have i can t win enough to get to the convention with enough delegates and neither can cruz. he would have to win 90% of the remaining debt gets and donald trump would have to win better than 60% and as you know, he s never got anywhere close to that so we re going to go to a convention and when we go, there will be two things that will be asked. and the only candidate that consistently beats hillary clinton in the fall. delegates take this seriously, the field and big decisions and ask who has the record, who has the accomplishments. i don t think trump can get one, two, three, seven. this is what john kasich believes? yeah, people that think delegate wills walk out and this is an ugly process, they don t understand the process. who will the delegates be? legislatures or those who worked in the vineyards for the republican party for a long time. our kids will get an education about how does somebody get elected president? how does the system work and for all of us that wanted better civic education for our kids, they are about to get it. governor, do you believe fairness demands, if no one arrives in cleveland, should it should you lead with the nomination? since i m one of the three, i d say yes but ultimately, that s a choice, that s a choice the delegates will make. veteran gop dirty trickster roger stone, i m sure you remembered roger said in gq when john kasich said he has no interest in being vice president thanks is a decoloration, of interest. you would say what? i m not going to be anybody s vice president, michael, don t worry about it. so if ted cruz should call and say hey, gov, let s put it together and take down trump. michael, michael, michael, i m running for president. i m not going to be anybody s vice president. i will go back. i will finish my term as govern governor. at that point i ll enter the private sector and be a citizen and complain about the politicians. good to see you and best of luck. thank you, migchael. god bless you and appreciate being with you. governor kasich said he s got faith in the delegates because they tend to be what did he say, long-term party loyalest that take duties seriously. so meet a republican national committee woman and gop delegate. dianna orrics a trump supporter, tom ellis running to be adele get in the swing county of my home state of pennsylvania. you heard john kasich say that donald trump is not getting to one, two, three, seven before cleveland. first, do you agree with that and second, do you see any scenario where on a second ballot, third ballot, fourth ballot, trump can close the deal? i think donald trump could probably close the deal. it s a very realistic possibility that he won t have the 1237 going into the convention, but that s okay. okay. but you are one of 112 committee people for the rnc, you re the only one whose for donald trump and i m unaware of a single state chairperson whose for trump. that doesn t bode well for him, pardon me, he s going to have support gathered around him at the convention. well, a lot of the state party chairs would prefer to remain neutral going into the convention and that s done for very good reasons. you know, we have several candidates running. and i m just the kind of person who likes to let people know where i stand and i m proud to be endorsing donald trump for 2016. tom, you were a delegate four years ago and running in my home county or montgomery, p.a. which is a swing area and i explained briefly we have a very unusual system in pennsylvania where you could be elected delegate as you were in the past, but not be bound by the vote in your own county. how would you approach your responsibility? well, first of all, welcome back to the republican party, michael. we re glad to have you back. if only for a short time, if only for a day. i think we need to have people that can make change from within so i m glad to have you back and we miss you on the radio in philadelphia. pennsylvania as you said is a different kind of state and people need to know when they go to vote in pennsylvania there is a beauty contest for president but the delegates even on the first ballot aren t committed to support whoever wins the general. so what would you do. election. however. i ve already told people i will support whoever wins my congressional district because i don t want them to waste their vote. they need to know when they go that their vote counts that i ll support whoever they want. on the first ballot and we get to the second ballot and then we get the best man we get house of cards open convention and then you never know what can happen. a perfect lab lab experiment. let s assume donald trump wins that way. he s looking for a winner and it john kasich runs strongest against hillary clinton again, that doesn t bode well for trump leading cleveland with the nomination. it depends who you talk to and who you think is going to be the strongest candidate against hillary clinton. you know, donald trump, his strong point is that he draws popularity from all political pu persuasion, we have republicans, democrats that not only have switch parties to vote for trump in the caucuses and the primaries, but a lot of those same party people are staying until the party voting for donald trump in the general. so to it s a moot point. more than 1,000 people voted, 62% agreeing with me. you re a seasoned political hand. do you think this past week was a milestone for donald trump? i think it hurt him but i m not 100% sure. he s come back i thought he was finished when he went after john mccain and said he wasn t a hero. me, too. you said, you said it. he s following the seinfeld mode go opposite and winning. i m not sure that s going to be the case. i said to one of your producers and you know frank rizzo, you used to work with him. he polled always lower than people thought he was going to get and he got a lot more votes because a lot of people said they weren t going to vote for him and did so. i was with my fiancee in london on new years eve. a guy there very well to do said, you know, we tell people we re against donald trump and don t believe what he says but actually we do. so, you know, i discounted donald trump a number of times. i originally was with jeb bush and chris christie and now i m waiting to see. there is a lot of people i know i didn t suspect would be for donald trump. i would never count him out. it s the beer test that you ve talked about. who do you want to have a beer with? of all the candidates out there, two democrats, nobody wants to go have a drink with. listen to me, hey, i would love to have a couple of pops with donald trump but it doesn t mean i ll be voting for him. dianna, final question for you. he ll pay. here is a scenario i see. he doesn t get to 1237. now you got a convention full of individuals like tom who paid their dues to the party that get together, they say trump has got a negative approval of 73% by women he can t beat hillary. we got to go to somebody else. dianna, respond to that scenario. well. [ laughter ] , that s a scenario i don t buy into it because 73% disapproval by women, i don t know who they are talking to but the rallies that i ve gone to for donald trump are loaded with women. and as far as the issues, i think donald trump could do very well against hillary clinton with her corrupt background but anyway, if it s a brokered convention, it s going to be very interesting and the convention is all about the delegates deciding who tnominee is going to be. i agree with you. let s go for it. you will both be there michael, michael real quick. pennsylvania favorite son tom ridge and i m a penn guy. thank you for that, as well. if the polls are right both party front runners hillary clinton and donald trump will lose on tuesday in wisconsin s primary. is the badger state out of touch or a sign of what s to come? i ll talk with a local conservative, moderate and progressive from wisconsin and tweet me at smerconish. here are a couple that have already come in. we stop arthritis pain, so you don t have to stop. tylenol® 8hr arthritis pain has two layers of pain relief. the first is fast. the second lasts all day. we give you your day back. what you do with it is up to you. tylenol®. he is.rrible at golf. people say i m getting better. no one s ever said that. but i d like to keep being terrible at golf for as long as i can. he s just happier when he s playing. but he s terrible. for the strength and energy to keep doing what you love, try new ensure enlive. only patented ensure enlive has hmb, plus 20 grams of protein to help rebuild muscle. and its clinically proven formula helps you stay you. oh. nice shot. new ensure enlive. always stay you. what if there was a paint that made you look at paint differently question everything you know and what you don t know what if it s built with better ingredients given super powers and even a secret base to test those powers. since benjamin moore reinvented paint, it makes you wonder is it still paint? find benjamin moore paint, only at one of our authorized retailers near you. we believe in the power of active management.management, by debating our research to find the best investments. by looking at global and local insights to benefit from different points of view. and by consistently breaking apart risk to focus on long-term value. we actively manage with expertise and conviction. so you can invest with more certainty. mfs. that s the power of active management. everything kids touch during cold and flu season sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don t stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. is caringing because covering heals faster. for a bandage that moves with you and stays on all day, cover with a band-aid brand flexible fabric adhesive bandage. wisconsin s primary tuesday is crucial for both parties and if the polls are to be believed, both front runners are losing, bernie sanders won three in a row and in the month of march alone raised $44 million leads hillary clinton in wisconsin 48-43 in the latest fox business poll on the republican side. cruise 44% and trump 32 and kasich at 19. part of the upheaval on the republican side has been due to local wisconsin radio hosts and joining me now jerry baiter is a consecutive and mitch hank is a moderate sjohn michaels, progressive and also writes for the nation. mitch, let me begin with you. if the polls are to be believed, the two national front runners will lose in wisconsin. you ha you heard me say is wisconsin a sign of what s to come or out liar? could be an outlier. he would go after ted cruz wife and spill the beans. i m a talk show host and i winced. imagine how they felt about that. he s losing women and you have votes coming from rubio and carson going to cruz, the talk show host in milwaukee, conservatives, governor, the coalition found a home in ted cruz. that won t be the case in new york where the people of new york values may reject cruz. john, are donald trump and bernie sanders competing for the same votes and because of wisconsin s open system at odds with one another because someone voting for bernie perhaps voting for donald and vice versa. let s be clear from the start that donald trump and bernie sanders are at opposite ends of the spectrum. people shouldn t see the possibility you scope out as an ideal logical response per se because wisconsin has an open primary and because wisconsin is so incredibly battered by trade policies that have not been good for a state that s seen a gm plan to chrysler plant, clothes, plants all over the state closed. so in some of the towns, could you have a situation where somebody might say i m going to vote for some real alternative for somebody that talks about trade might vote for bernie sanders on one side and might vote for donald trump on the other, yes, i think that possibility does exist in some towns. so jerry baiter, it means therefore that in wisconsin donald trump ought to be this will sound so odd, rooting for hillary clinton. well, yeah, i suppose you could say that. you me, i think what you asked earlier, michael, is wisconsin an out liar. in terms of conservative talk radio, we don t pair at the national guys and that s why donald trump ran into what he ran into here in wisconsin. i think in terms of going forward, wisconsin provides the opportunity to take the mask off the charade off so what happens here in wisconsin might be the beginning of the end for donald trump and we ll find out. hey, jerry, let me show you and the other panelist some numbers. i want to compare february to march and take a look at the growth of ted cruz so initially this is is february now from marquet marquette, trump at 30, rubio at 20. cruz is only at 19. kasich is at eight. fast forward one month, interestingly, trump is still at 30. but cruz has doubled. do you attribute that to the strength of the talk radio message against donald trump and if so, what s the beef that you-all have with trump? yes, i do and obviously the thinning of the field had a lot to do with that. that 30% does tend to be his ceiling. the beef with donald trump is he s not real. let me give you a specific example of this. here is why he stumbled so horribly with the abortion issue this week. he s not pro-life. he has no idea what the pro-life answer should be. he s very much proabortion rights. in his mind, gee, what have i always been told about pro-lifers and it was that extreme that we want to put women in chains that have an abortion. that s donald trump issue after issue after issue. he is trying to figure out what a conservative should sound like that s why he blows in the wind and that s why there is no substance there. that s our beef with him, michael. besides his childish playground behavior, he s not a conservative. mitch, i want to show you something written about another wisconsin radio host, charlie psyc sikes if we can put that on the screen. he said we bear some responsibility because we beat on the main stream media for so long and now there are no credible sources anymore. that jumped off the page at me. i said to myself, maybe the basting of the so-called main street media lessoned the credibility of those outlets that would otherwise right now be vetting donald trump. what do you make of that thought? we had al la cart media for a long time. conservative stations and networks or papers ever since ross perot was on larry king, we ve gone that way for a long time. no surprise. we don t have 17 candidates anymore. the math works against trump but carson and rubio people are going to cruz plus he s hurting himself with women. i think you can analyze this case by case. new york would be a different story. we re not so doomed sayers. we get to new york. trump has to fight hard this weekend to stave off kasich because kasich may have a path to creep up a little bit. i think with some republican women and moderates, tommy thompson the former governor and the former madison republican congressman and people that call him the polite republicans they want an alternative to the mud wrestling tandem. final question, 18,000 people showed up in the bronx in new york for bernie sanders this week and as we ve explained, he s leading thus far against secretary clinton in your home state. those folks coming out and giving $44 million in this past month and who will vote for him on tuesday, they must believe that despite the media analysis of the delegate count, there is still a path for bernie. what is it? well, i think that wisconsin is a critical part of that. that s what obviously the sanders campaign said from the start. one thing to understand is that as you talk about both of these campaigns on the republican side and democratic side, you ve obviously got your delegate map up front but momentum. that s important to think about. if ted cruz wins big in wisconsin, if possibly john kasich comes in second in wisconsin or at least beats trump in a number of congressional districts, that gives both of them momentum even though donald trump will still have the delegate advantage. similarly, if sanders wins big in wisconsin, has a really solid win, then he ll have momentum going to wisconsin or going on to new york. the key in all this is for these candidat candidates relying on momentum, they have to keep winning and that of course, is the bigger challenge. i think that s a good insight. i agree with you. gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. it will get more interesting. jerry baiter, mitch hank and john nickels, thank you. remember, keep tweeting me at smerconish with your thoughts. i ll read some later in the program. just ahead, heroin addiction is an important top piic on the campaign trail. a mayor ready to try a radical fix, legal injection sites and will the criminal charges filed against donald trump s campaign manager with this altercation with a reporter stick or be dismissed? 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because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. that s why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. here, there, everywhere. united states postal service priority: you whewhat does it look like?ss, is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a. i am a first responder tor and i emergencies 24 hours a day, everyday of the year. my children and my family are on my mind when i m working all the time. my neighbors are here, my friends and family live here, so it s important for me to respond as quickly as possible and get the power back on. it s an amazing feeling turning those lights back on. be informed about outages in your area. sign up for outage alerts at pge.com/outagealerts. together, we re building a better california. donald trump s campaign manager is facing a misdemeanor battery charge in florida and by now everybody seen the video of the incident of him grabbing reporter michelle fields as she tried to ask mr. trump a question. still, the tape has become a republican war shock test. people see in it what they want to see. how will it play in court? the actions of the defendant, joining me two sharp legal minds, criminal defense attorneys mark o mara and danny. i want to look at the tape. let s slow mo it. we re looking for an intentional part one, part two is touching and part three that it was non-consensual. there you go. you see her jerk back. you don t see his hand, i don t see his hand on her body but one might reasonably infer she was grabbed because she suddenly jerks back. but under the statute and in most states, the standards for criminal battery simple assault, whatever it s call in your particular state is a very low threshold. you need an intentional, the touching and absence of consent. that s the black letter law, michael. now let s take a step into the practical world of criminal defense, would most police detectives in your town be interested or prosecutors be interested in wasting judicial resources on a case like this? it really depends on the individual law enforcement unit. well, mark o mara, i hear danny say intentional is a required element here. what s the alternative, that he instinctively or reflexly had that kind of a reaction? well, it s not just the intentional act itself, he obviously touched her on the arm. what we have to look at is what s called in all business, what is the criminal intent. so when i push past you to get on a subway car thanks is not a crime under any set of circumstances so what he s going to say, what i would say to his criminal defense attorney is look, i was reacting of the moment. it was a reporter trying to say something to my candidate, my boss who we were trying to get out of there. no criminal intend towards her. as a matter of fact, if you look at his face right afterwards, look at the second, half a second after the supposed battery and no anger, no an massty, he s literally moved her out of the way and moved on in what he was doing, trying to get mr. trump out of there. this would never be prosecuted if this was on a subway platform or a baseball game. intention because of the absu absurdity of what we re in the with the political scene. you guys are so good, it s why i carry each of your phone numbers in my wallet in case i get jammed up. danny, isn t the response from the prosecution going to be take a look several frames thereafter where he continues walking and catches up to donald trump. if he really believed she was a threat, he would have stayed and neutralized that threat. isn t that going to harm him? i m going to put on my defense hat for a second and the way, using something the great mark o mara is familiar with, self-defense and defense of others. it requires that you reasonably perceive some application of force and use the amount of force reasonably necessary. in essence, meeting force with commencing force. you never want to answer. the idea is if he perceives she s about to touch mr. trump, perhaps he saw himself as using reasonable force to counter the perceived force. that may be what we see in terms of self-defense or defense of others. mark o mara, do you agree there is a zimmerman aspect of this incident? here is the problem with that. if you re going to use self-defense and defense of others, you have to acknowledge the act and the intensity of the act. he would have to say i absolutely did that. i grabbed her by the arm and threw her out of the way and did whatever i needed to do to defend mr. trump. dangerous ground to be on. i would sit back and say look, this is a virtual scum in this arena. we re trying to get trump out of there. she s throwing out another question like everybody else and i want to get her out of the way. i would sit back and focus on the lack of criminal intent to begin with and simply say this is the way things happened in this scrum that exists in the political arena. what i m hearing mark say is context matters. i heard him make repeated reference to where this happens and the nature of the vents. i want to ask you a practical question. if he when it was said and done, should he have apologized and took ownership, would we be having this conversation now? maybe. that depends on this individual reporter and how she perceived the interaction and maybe it s a broader political question, which is a little beyond my personal pay grade but in a case like this, you know, look, the way we read our criminal statutes in the states, we have such low thresholds and florida is a fantastic example. all you need is intentional, touching and absence of consent. florida courts said you do not need injury. you do not need harm. one case i read involved a student throwing ravoli at another student but the contact without consent was enough under the law. right now he is wonder chg one should i call, o mara or savalos. call o mara. appreciate you being here. thanks. this is not going to be a laughing matter, i ll talk to the mayor of a small city hard hit by heroin and how to keep addicts alive by allowing them to bring the drug use into the open and more tweets at smerconish like this one. e trade is all about seizing opportunity. so i m going to take this opportunity to go off script. so if i wanna go to jersey and check out shotsy tuccerelli s portfolio, what s it to you? or i m a scottish mason whose assets are made of stone like me heart. papa! you re no son of mine! or perhaps it s time to seize the day. don t just see opportunity, seize it! 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so good. go pro with crest pro-health advanced. mom s right.again! one of the surprising big stories of this election cycle is the attention paid by politicians to the skurg of heroin addiction. it knows no class or racial boundaries. now in wisconsin on tuesday, nationally every year about 30,000 people die from heroin and opiate overdoses and wisconsin 500 addicted babies are born each year and with new york s primary weeks away, a city is considering a propose toll keep addicts safe. it means allowing a safe area for addicts to shoot up. something that exists nowhere in the united states. payor of ithica, at 29 the youngest mayor in the town, first one of color and joins me. mayor, 20 years ago i would have laughed at your proposal. i m not laughing now. yeah, even two years ago. this idea would have sounded crazy to me. it s clear we have a problem. it s clear it s not been working and the state and federal government are not going to save us. we got to find ideas that work and adopt them locally. the arguments that i m hearing remind me of narcan. i have an emt on my radio show, dan henning, i ll give him a shoutout saved somebody s life a week ago with narcan. people on one hand say you re perpetuating drug use because you re providing a crutch and others like you say no, we re saving lives. that s exactly right. these we ve had these conversations before about harm reduction and keeping people healthy and safe. we had them when we opened needle ex changes 25 years ago and people thought if you provide clean needles, are you encouraging drug use? no, we re saving people s lives by reducing hiv transmission. when we are taught sex-ed in schools, you give them condoms but don t encourage them to have six, you make sure they are safe if they do have sex. i read the coverage it is i m sorry, i want to make this point. i ve sure. i want to say i ve read the coverage of your proposal and i think the media has gotten it wrong because i also took the time to go to your website and read the proposal. it s comprehensive. this is one component and it s getting all the headlines. yeah, i think because it s the most controversial and the most innovative and on the cutting edge of something you expect controversy. the plan does say it s not enough to keep addicts alive. we have to surround them with resources and get them medicated treatment. president obama s plan he announced is ground breaking. you got to prevent people from using tools. pioneered in seattle and albany and we hope to bring next year. you re not going to supply the heroin? no, we don t supply the heroin. we make sure increasingly we re seeing heroin laced with other more powerful drugs that are killing people. in buffalo, just a few miles from us, we had ten deaths in ten days because of another drug. in vancouver, they had over 2 million injections and not a single overdose death. in 35% in vancouver. final point. your mayor says i m not cool with this because it is illegal behavior. the d.a. for the county in which your city is located is applauding you. yeah. look. because those of us who have seen addiction up close understand that we can t solve this problem with sort of logic and sober thinking that we have used in the past. those of us children of addicts like myself, those who have faced addiction understand you need to meet people where they are and pull them into the light. by keeping them in the darkness. keeping people shooting up in alleys and bathrooms you assure they will never get better and too many will die. mayor, 20 years old when elected to council in your town. now you are the mayor. thank you very much for being here. thank you very much for having me . still to come, your best and worst tweets. here s one. what if we invented a paint that s not only in the top of its class but lets you breathe as deeply as this or this or this. not guilty. if it doesn t upset your allergies like paint, is it still paint? natura is certified asthma and allergy friendly. and you can only find it at your benjamin moore retailer. you know what i say you can follow me on twitter if you can spell smerconish. squeak says, legal injection site? i can t even smoke a joint in indiana. pretty good point. also this, you joined the gop, the party of u.s. citizen voter restriction. how un-american of you. i shall be a member for one day, sir. thank you. then there was this. i love it. you have had your stinger out for him i think meaning donald trump from the start. but i think you re right. agree. he has jumped the shark. and some people may want to have a drink with donald trump. for us never trumpsters, he makes us want to have a drink. see you next week. use covering heals faster. for a bandage that moves with you and stays on all day, cover with a band-aid brand flexible fabric adhesive bandage. he is.rrible at golf. people say i m getting better. no one s ever said that. but i d like to keep being terrible at golf for as long as i can. he s just happier when he s playing. but he s terrible. for the strength and energy to keep doing what you love, try new ensure enlive. only patented ensure enlive has hmb, plus 20 grams of protein to help rebuild muscle. and its clinically proven formula helps you stay you. oh. nice shot. new ensure enlive. always stay you. good morning. so grateful for your company. i m christie paul. 10:00 on the east coast. in a few hours, republican presidential candidate donald trump will hold a town hall in racine, wisconsin. also attending rallies in wassau and eau claire in the hopes of picking up last minute votes after the latest fox business polls. ted cruz is leading trump by ten points. donald trump has had what some are characterizing as a rough week regarding comments on abortion and now saying abortion laws should remain unchanged. but earlier this week he said women who get a