denticola thinks kennedy can bring americans together and isn t worried about him taking votes from biden or trump a person like bobby kennedy who is really a messenger of unity, a message for all people i think that s why he s going to actually pull a lot of voters from both sides that s back on deal s farm. i shared desire for unity to address a deeply divided country. if we don t make some changes and find somebody who has creative solutions and somebody we can trust who wants to bring us together? we re gonna be on a world of hurt even rfk junior seemed to be pulling more votes away from biden or trump based on who you spoke to anderson kennedy s coalition of voters, they ve really span the political spectrum polling data does indicate the largest contingent could actually be those who didn t support either candidate in 2020. a lot of his support comes from the so-called double-haters. those holding unfavorable views of both biden and trump anderson, even mechan thanks the news continues here on cnn front next the breaking news, trump s interview with a probation officer wrapping up the first first of its kind in history, we have new details about the questions he faced and how his answers could affect his sentence, as well as who was in that room. plus a secret new recording tonight is supreme court justice samuel alito. this is the former republican governor kristi todd whitman breaks her silence about the man that she had publicly supported an introduced to the united states senate she now. regret backing alito, and it s the hottest stock on the planet. a little known company forcing apple today to play catch up we have a special report. let s go outfront and good evening. i m erin burnett, outfront tonight. the breaking news, former president trump, just wrapping up an interview with a probation officer. this is a first never in american history has a former president had to sit down with a probation officer well, because a former president has never been convicted of a crime. but here we are. this meeting was mandatory for trump as he is now a convicted felon in the state of new york. trump answering questions from his home and mar-a-lago. now, according to a source, the question answers lasted about half an hour and trump was asked we understand some of the basic questions that other convinced it did felons must answer those questions for regular felon would include questions about family background, financial status, living situation, and crucially, it chance for the defendant in this case trump to say why he thinks he deserves a lighter punishment now there is no pleading. the fifth year and the answers trump gave will influence judge juan merchan, who will formally sentence trump in july. here s the range trump is facing anywhere from probation two up to a maximum of 20 years in prison after being found guilty of all 34 counts in the new york hush money case. now, one of the most important drivers into whether which extreme this ends up on or where it ends up in that in that band is whether trump expresses remorse. and that of course is not happening trump today posting online, i truly wish people would remember that all of these trials in quotes are concocted and run by the crooked joe biden white house and doj for the purpose of election interference and damaging crooked political opponent me as much as possible. of course, it always bears noting in a moment when he says that the biden doj could have prosecuted this case and explicitly chose not to. and the white house, the white house officials privately call this case the run to the litter. but trump is going to melt this trial for all its political worth. and it comes as his top political ally today, rudy giuliani is now facing some justice of his own, charged with allegedly conspiring to overturn arizona s election. this just came out moments ago. what you re looking at on your screen is the mug shot of giuliani america s mare turned into trump s fall guy, and that is his mug shot in the state of arizona, maricopa county tonight brynn grasp begins our coverage outfront live in new york and brynn, you ve got new reporting about this interview between trump and probation officer so what are you learning yeah, that s right. so aaron is interviewed, took place around 330 today, as you said, it lasted for about a half an hour, a bud source in new york city s who was familiar with the actual interview that took place over a virtual meeting telling are john miller that trump was described as polite, respectful, and accommodating, answering all the questions asked of him. now, we ve reported that todd blanche trump s attorney was with him in mar-a-lago on that side? the virtual meeting by here in new york are understanding from this source is that the commissioner of the new york city probation department would need a homes was present. the general counsel for that department was present, as well as the probation officer that is assigned to trump s case. of course, this probation officer now will likely stick with trump and this will be the person who does the follow-ups. this are saying though that as of now, like i said, he answered all of the questions that were asked of him. and right now, there doesn t seem to be a follow-up, but of course there is always that option to should they need it. so one of my more details of how that probation interview went as we ve described before, many questions could be asked of certainly about trump s background, his financial history, has he abused drugs or alcohol in the past? it s certainly not much ground covered in a 30 minutes, but of course, we re talking about a defendant like the former president here. now what happens next the defense it s her attorney, todd blanche, his team. they re going to submit a sentence recommendation to the judge. the probation officer, who conducted this interview is going to conduct. it s going to compile hello report. and these are just two elements that are gonna be factored into judge juan merchan s decision when he makes that sentencing done, which of course we know the days next month in july 11, aaron, are i brynn? thank you very much. in new york outside the courthouse, michael jacobson and our team join me here. michael, let me start with you because you are the former new york city correction and probation commissioner. so when need homes now doing that now. so what s your take of what happened today? we ve been obviously probation or regular probation officer assigned to the case, but it sounds like the commissioner herself was in the room as well as the general counsel will certainly expected someone more than just a probation officer to be in that interview. i mean, it s so unusual for 1,000 reasons. most of them obvious but just the fact that it was remote. and that trump s attorney was there. those are two very odd things in enough themselves. so given all that, it certainly made sense that you would want someone other than the probation officer it certainly makes sense to me for the general counsel to be there the sort of equivalent of trump s attorney on the probation? and the commissioner runs the agencies. so i think she thought it was appropriate that she was there. now, i know these can often go up to 90 minutes or two. i then go longer. this went less than 30, and obviously this isn t a case where the judge needs to be reminded about the details of the defendant or anything like that as would be the case in normal situations. but what do you think they got out of it? well, it s just the beginning of what can be a pretty long and sometimes intrusive process. so you shouldn t take too much that it was just a a first polite interview. probation officer has wide berth here to get into, as you said alcohol and drug use. talking to pass as victims can examine trump s behavior in terms of the violation of the gag order revisit the finding that he sexually assaulted jean carroll. all that is open, fodder for a pre-sentence investigation. they wanted to sort of paint a broad picture. so this was the start of something at certainly not the end, which is important thing, right? it s not as if this is done and then we wait a month, right, terry, this is this is a part of it, but you ve watched the judge so closely in that room, judge, that trump had referred to looking like an angel, but he was really the devil was the way trump put it but a judge who his demeanor was always positive, serious, he never never betrayed any sort of emotion how much weight do you think he will give this report, this interview that s the report that s going to come out of the interview that michael s talking about. i think he s going to take it very seriously, but like you said, aaron, he knows this defendant, he knows trump. he saw him every the day he saw trump violate the gag order ten times and he imposed the fine for that. and i think he s going to really want to see whether there is remorse and he s going to take what s been going on in las vegas, the rally, what he s saying and all of the things that he saying now really don t show remorse. and i think that is going to have an impact. i m not saying he s going to incarcerate him, but i do think as to whether it s probation or house arrest or community service he s going to go with something that s a little more serious. so mark the way that it was described, brynn reporting, the way that trump handled himself today was that he was polite and respectful and accommodating to the probation officer. and the obviously the commissioner in the general counsel, who were also present for the new york parole commission. i m sorry, probation commission. but this is the first time of foreign presidents ever been in a situation like this. mark, you ve been in situations like this hundreds of times with clients. so does the judge already have his mind made up when you hear a accommodating, polite and respectful. does that mean anything considering what trump says about this, judge? pretty much daily i think it was a pragmatic approach that he should be respectful to probation officer interviewing him. i ve never had general counsel show up at the hundreds that i ve ever been on. i ve also never had the commission shouldn t have department of corrections show up. so obviously, everyone s looking at this very, very carefully. but aaron, as we talked about last week, i do think that this judge as most judges who sat through the trial before sentencing, have most of their mind made up 90% or so. this is not going to, i think move the needle very much because everyone knows who don t trump is. everyone knows about the facts of the case, which really interesting is whether or not they took this opportunity to give a written statement or a verbal statement of his position. i m almost surprised if he didn t just because of who he is, although i tell my clients never to give a written or verbal statement at this stage wait until you get in front of the judge all right. well, we ll see the mark. i want to ask you about one other thing here because it trump obviously was in this interview today means i m rudy giuliani, right? who was at the helm of this, his efforts to overturn state election results was he had his mug shot taken america county and arizona a process in phoenix after pleading not guilty to charges of trying to overturn the election, they re just looking at this picture and he s got a blue and a white star tie on. i tried to smile, i guess. i mean, mark, what s your reaction looking at that mug shot? it s insulting to the process to be honest, i remember rudy when i grew up in new york and all of that good stuff, america s mayor, like you mentioned, it s just sad that we re getting to the point where on the same day from a president, maybe a future president is getting your probation interview. and the former mayor of america is getting a mug shot taken heavy, said that he knows the respective should give the process he hasn t done it recently, but he knows and you don t smile, you don t look away from the camera. you give the respect even at the process of a mug shot, to respect the process that quite honestly, he was sworn to protect for decades and it s when will you say right? i mean, he s mocking it by the smile. it s not, not of a state of mind, it s a mocking. my goal when we talk of trump allies, it s actually very relevant here in the context of the probation conversation because florida governor ron desantis, they obviously were rivals for a time. they were allies, then rivals. and now here we are but desantis could actually be the one who oversees whatever sentence trump gets, right? right. so the way this works is a little known part of probation national e coli interstate compact. and if you re sentenced in a jurisdiction, but you happen to live in another jurisdiction, which is the case here, right. sentenced in new york lives in florida most of the time through the interstate compact, the supervision of that case will be done in a jurisdiction that the person lives in. so under normal circumstances, if he was sentenced to probation, they would make a request to be transferred to florida probation. right? those requests are normally fulfilled. i think this one there may be a little more of a discussion then they re normally is, but that agency is, as you say controlled by the governor and floor. so how he really has to check in or the way he s treated that would could potentially be the decision of governor to potentially the that compact gives wide berth to the receiving agency as they re called and the general rule is that agency treats this person as they do similar people there are no services, no similar people and it s a terrorist. what s the process here is my mega is point out this is the first step. it s a month from tomorrow that we re actually going to get the sentencing unless it s delayed. so the process here is what then trump s team files for what they think the sentence should be. and there s a whole lot of back-and-forth exactly what one of the things that the probation officer will be doing. they don t just have to interview some thinking interview family members. they can talk to prior victims if there were any victims in this case, it s victimless, so to speak, but they re going to be continuing to do their investigation. the judge is doing his research by the way, he is looking at how many similar people have had these types of charges and what has been their sentence. so he s doing that. and meanwhile, the attorneys obviously are working on their recommendations. both the prosecution and the defense. all right. well, thank you all very much. next we do at breaking news on the jury, deliberating in the hunter biden trial tonight, his family turning out in force today. the prosecution warrants the jury about by this family presence in the courtroom plus protests, breaking out tonight after one of america s top allies suffers a shocking defeat at the polls. tonight. far right s candidates across europe gaining ground and justice samuel alito, listen to this secretly recorded on tape what. the difference the most anticipated moment this election and the stakes couldn t be higher, biden democracy is on the ballot. your freedom is on the ballot trump, there is nothing we cannot do who will make america powerful again, the president and the former president, one state, two very different visions for america s future. the weight only cnn can bring it to you moderated by jake tapper and dana bash, the cnn presidential debate thursday, june 27th at nine live on cnn and streaming and backs life is better with the credit gods on your side. rewards. once available to the view, are now accessible to the many credit one bank get cashback or was it lives large discover our newest resorts, sandals and vincent and the grenadines. now open visit sandi it s dot com or call 1800 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they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit. unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock.” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it s not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. future for normal guy like me have given myself a small raise, join me at trying trying.com five good things listen wherever you get your podcasts breaking news, a hunter biden s future at this hour in the hands of a jury. that jury deliberating for nearly an hour today. so they are in deliberations then they were sent home for the night that we back tomorrow morning could have a verdict biden facing three charges tied to the purchase of a gun while abusing narcotics. if the jury finds them guilty of all three counts, the president s son could serve up to 25 years in prison he could also be forced to pay up to $750,000 in fines now, when you think about that, just speak declare here as father or the president, the united states has made it clear that he will not pardon his son if he s found guilty. i ve impressed has been following this trial since the beginning. he s out from the courthouse and obviously you ve spent nowadays in days inside that courtroom, evan so the jury has this now, what can you tell us tonight well, aaron, i was in the courtroom this afternoon as both the prosecutor fusion and the defense. did their closing arguments, you could see some jurors nodding off during the 90 minutes defense closing arguments abbe lowell the lawyer for hunter biden, really focused his arguments on trying to direct the attention of the jury on things that he says shows showed shortcomings in the government s case, who pointed out that because there is no direct evidence that hunter biden was using crack cocaine in october of 20 me 18 when he bought the firearm that that is reasonable doubt as to whether he knew he was lying on the form that he filled out when he bought that gun. now, in response to that, there are kinds the prosecutor said someone who holds a crackpipe to his mouth every 15 every 15 minutes knows that they re an addict. so that s really the concise nature of this case. this is a very simple case and so now that the jury has it, we anticipate this is not going to take too long. however what we know is this, once he wanted we get a verdict from this hunter biden faces up to 25 years, possibly under this law, we don t expect that as a first-time offender, if he is convicted that he would get that much. we also anticipate that the that the judge will take at least a few weeks to set a possible sentencing. again, if there is a guilty verdict, again tomorrow, the jury is back here at 9:00 a.m. and we expect that there ll be here all day tomorrow. alright. evan, thank you very much. i mean, we ll see when that verdict comes. and that could be tomorrow, and evan will be there in that courtroom, which was packed today and notably, a number of people in the room were related to a hunter biden, including the first lady, jill biden france over the weekend, she was back. prosecutors have been telling jurors not to be swayed by the president, the presence i m sorry, of the president s family in the courtroom saying, quote, this is not evidence tom foreman s out front as the jury headed into deliberations, hunter biden s family was there in force his mother, his wife, and others packing the first rows of the courtroom this even after a brutal week of testimony, full of painful details of his infidelity, divorce for this drug addiction, and grief, all of which he acknowledged long ago i made mistakes in my life and wasted opportunities and privileges. i was afforded for that i m responsible. women in his life had played a big role in court. ex-wife, kathleen buhle, testifying that she searched hunter s car before their daughters got in and found drugs or paraphernalia on approximately a dozen occasions, his former girlfriend, zoe kestan, whom he met when she was a dancer at a club, said he appeared to be smoking crack on their first evening together. his daughter naomi tearfully took the stand in her father s defense, only to be asked by prosecutors about this text to him. i m really sorry, dad. i can t take this and first lady, jill biden has been in court to holding hands and the family line. i love hunter and i ll support him. and i in any way i can. and that s how i look at things hunters, deceased brother beau has also loomed large. witnesses have talked about the devastating impact of beau s death or cancer in 2015 hunter has said the grief was so intense it spurred or romantic relationship with beau s widow, hallie and that grief turned into a hope for a love that maybe you could replace what we lost. and it didn t work it didn t work. indeed a trial, haley said hunter introduced her to crack it was a terrible experience. she said, i m embarrassed, i m ashamed. i regret that period of my life through it all the unstoppable refrain, drugs, drugs drugs with segments of his own audio book played as evidence i possessed a new superpower, the ability to find crack and anytown at any time, no matter how unfamiliar the terrain, it was easy. and of course, president joe biden is hovering, not in person, but in spirits. his decision already made will you accept the jury s outcome, their verdict no matter what it is? yes. and have you ruled out a pardon for your son? yes this would be a difficult bit of testimony for any family in this country to endure. i am sure, but with a member of that family seeking to hold onto the white house knowing the whole nation is watching, just makes it more so. aaron, tom, thank you very much. and ryan goodman is here, so ryan just going through that, how many people were in the room when you think about it ex-wife, sister-in-law, former girlfriend his his stepmother, joe biden, all of them in that room. what does that do to the jury? so, i, think it can make the defendant to look like a more sympathetic character, especially because you ve got this audio tape, which i think some of what they re playing, it makes him seem very creepy. and he s talking about criminal conduct in a sense. but here you have the family that s showing love and support for a person who is giving the image of being rehabilitated and so that could be sympathetic to the jury, and that s why the prosecutors maybe felt like they had to say something to try to defuse that, to say that s something separate from whether or not he s criminally guilty of the alleged right, which they re trying to say, don t look at who s in the room. it s not about the case, but is defense attorney abbe lowell as devin was referring to, said during his closing closing statement that hallie biden, who was bows wife, who at one point, as hundred talking about was hit dated hunter after beau s death, did something incredibly stupid. that s how abbe lowell put it when she threw out hunter biden s gun and your source, with the things you do for love in that instance, is that a good move with this jury? do you think i guess the context here is they were nodding off during his 90 minute closing all right. so i think he might need to say certain things to try to charge them up and focus back in on him. but that s especially using that kind of language against hallie biden that could come across as a sexes trope to identify her as such. and then the defendant is not somebody who s engaging in stupid but the woman someone exactly. and with that many women on the jury, it s not a good move and it s just wide wave and say something like that. they could just say, look, i don t like this. i don t like this. defense council. i don t trust him and part of his narrative that he s trying to sell me on includes that element in it and that s not persuasive. so again, interesting, as evan said, a few of them were nodding off during that closing. one hour of deliberations today, how soon do you think we got a verdict? i think we could get the verdict tomorrow and not in the way in which when if you get a very early verdict, you often think it is they re gonna be a guilty verdict. that s just having a manhattan with donald trump. i think the case is very straightforward. it s only a week s worth of testimony for both sides. and the law is very straightforward as well. so it s three charges all around the same set of facts over lemon day period i think they could come back tomorrow with guilty or acquittal or hung jury, and we surprised that president biden said he would not pardon his son. i don t think so. i think that he really has to the ground of that. he needs to be separate from this and that he s trying to restore faith and the justice department and in some ways, our criminal justice system. so for him to suggest anything other than that would be a mistake, right? right. all right. thank you very much, ryan. next, we have breaking news of massive protests breaking out tonight across one of america s major allies after the far right is pulled off, a major and historic victory could this be a warning sign for biden meet the ceo taking on apple s tim cook and winning. and what he s creating. wait till you see it changed the world this election seasons stay with cnn with more reporters on the ground. and the best political team in the business follow the voters follow the results follow the facts follow. cnn i m getting vaccinated by sir pneumococcal pneumonia vaccine syllabi because i m at risk for pneumococcal pneumonia i m getting prevnar 20 because there s a chance pneumococcal pneumonia could put it me in the hospital if you re 19 or older with certain chronic conditions like asthma, diabetes, copd, or heart disease, or are 65 or older, you are at 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[sfx] ambient / laughing. scan the code now and ask about the bosley guarantee. high brazil alvarez at the white house. and this is cnn closed captioning is bronchi by you, cora, help maintain a healthy urinary tract with you cora, i can having utis for ten years. you, cora. we make uti relief products. we also well make proactive urinary tract health product. you cora, is a life s they tried today at your core.com breaking news, massive protests breaking out across france tonight in the face of major victory is by far right, politicians across europe. we ve got new video and to cnn showing huge crowds and paris these far right winds were a shocking blow shocking to one of america s top allies, the french president emmanuel macron, suffering a stunning defeat that could see him lose its majority. the election results becoming clear as macron was actually meeting with president biden, who may face the same fate, a falling to the far right and just months. fred pleitgen is outfront is seizure all done? bother launch a landslide defeat for french president emmanuel macron s party in the european elections is a diesel donc swa less some blurriness, you macone immediately dissolving french parliament and calling for snap elections in france. so this is young the decision is serious, a hard one he said, but it is above all, an act of confidence, confidence in you, my fellow citizens the call came is the far-right as somone, as soon as one around twice as many votes in the election as macron s party sluggish economies in many european countries and the migration crisis similar to the southern border in the us, where the top issues for voters across europe many of the right-wing parties gaining ground, also sympathetic to russian leader vladimir putin like my thinking lappin of the asam, the mona s you now, who s been a kremlin out? for years. they processor. so this premier, the french have spoken and this historic election shows that when the people vote, the people, when she said in germany, chancellor olaf scholz s party also suffered a beat down coming in third behind the right-wing alternative for germany or afd, the afd with big gains even after their main candidate claimed there were decent people and hitler s buffon, ss and employed and accused a chinese spy in his office during the election campaign we had a bumpy start to the election campaign and then really caught up in the final sprint, the party chairman said after all the prophecies of dual after the barrage of the last weeks, we are the second strongest force europe s far-right, often skeptical of relations with the us. will be a strong force in europe s parliament, hungry. and one of former president donald trump s strongest allies in europe viktor orban of hungary, also an eu skeptic at a strong show i guess to sum up the results of the european parliamentary election, we can send in a telegram to brussels saying migration, stop gender, stop the war, stop soro, stop russell s stop. he said and aaron in various european countries, the centrist forces lost ground to those far-right parties and just i ll give you an idea of how dire the situation there isn t some places are here in germany, normally, the green party attracts a lot of young voters, but this time around, the greens actually lost a lot of young voters. and many of them went to the right alternative for germany. aaron, we ll questions and raising real questions here in the us, fred, thanks. thank you. and i want to go out adjacent van tatenhove. he s a former spokesman for the far-right oath keepers group, testified before the january 6 select committee, and he s also the author of the perils of extremism. how i left the oath keepers and why we should be concerned about a future civil war well, jason, i m glad to be speaking with you again because you can put real perspective on this. you know, the far-right movement in the united states. so well how emboldened are they by what we are now seeing happened tonight across europe? well, i think it does play a part. i think you know, what happens here. ripples across the world in that happens back-and-forth those victories are going to be seen as a victory here too, that there s momentum growing and i think we need to take it as kind of a dire warning as to where we really are right now, even with a front runner that is just been found guilty of so many charges it just doesn t seem to matter. there s certainly momentum growing you see it as a dire warning. i mean, we have seen jayson to your point a disturbing rise in rhetoric, violent rhetoric and threats since trump was convicted, axios reported another far-right group, the proud boys, wrote in a website hope these jurors face some street justice and don t be surprised, you know, this was going to happen stand back and standby. this is far from over. we promise. so stand back and stand by. of course, the words that trump himself had used in 2020. and someone told the pro-trump right-side broadcasting network, which is something many may not have heard of who watch this program, but it s out there and at a trump rally over the weekend, they said this we re in a, third world nation now. so yeah, i would expect it at some point that like it ll break out into violence. i mean, at this point there yet they re using the courts against their opponents we ve seen that before, so we know what s next yeah we re a third world nation now, and i would expect it ll break out into violence what are the threats and the talk of violence that you are seeing and hearing right now that were you most you know, really what worries me most is where it s coming from and my thought process. that s from trump this really seems to have evolved past what i would call stochastic terrorism, where you have a message that goes out. it seems to be passing a threshold where i think really he s just putting out this messaging and if you look at the emails that have been going out last week or so, the rhetoric is getting more extreme it s according that line of direct violent action more and more and unfortunately that audience, there, members of that audience consuming those messages that may take action that looked to be preparing to take action and that s a very concerning to me. when you say looked to be preparing to take action, do you really believe that there is sort of i don t know how organized you would describe it as, but that there really are those preparations that stand back and stand, stand back and stand by i think we would be foolish not to take them at their word i think that absolutely there we saw kind of an evolution of tactics after january 6 and during the prosecution s that happened with the people involved where it kinda it moved away from these, these big national groups and big national events to hyperlocal going after the drag storytelling hours and such. but now i think we re seeing a shift again where we re going back and there is a reorganization happening and i think we re going to see more coming from that national, those national groups that they are definitely ready to reappear. i will jason, i appreciate your time sobering warning. as you say, a dire warning that you re putting out are but thank you. next, a secret new recording of justice samuel alito, plus i m going to speak to the former new jersey governor, christine todd whitman. she put her reputation on the leinz. she endorsed alito during his confirmation hearing. she was the one there her face was out there. does she now regret it plus apple trying to play catch up to accompany now, there s a company worth more than the iphone maker and the ceo of that company has net worth is now 100 billion he says he s just getting started devastating and sudden power of tsunamis. it happened in faraway lands and it s easy to think it can t happen here if one hits home, will we d be ready silent birth with liev schreiber, sunday at night on cnn doug lima someone 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a liberal documentary filmmaker who represented herself to alito as a religious conservative and secretly recorded their conversation, which was obtained by rolling stone. now, we have not obtained the full audio here is a part of it that they ve put out for you to hear one side or the other there can be the way of working our. way of living together, please it s different because there are differences. one fundamental things that really it s not like what the difference this comes as a leader was embroiled in controversy after the new york times reported that an upside down american flag flew outside his home in northern virginia in january 2021. it was, of course, a standard flat a standard bearer of january 6 protesters, as well as the second flag, one carried by the insurrectionist on january 6, it flew outside his vacation homes. so two different flags, both used on that day, out front now for republican governor of new jersey, christine todd whitman, who introduced alito at his confirmation hearing back in 2006. recommended him to the senate judiciary committee. so governor whitman, i really appreciate your time and obviously it s been a long time, nearly 20 years since you did that and you publicly vouched for alito you spoke out for him? and now time has passed and you see him things he has done. you see his defiance admits this flag controversy. does this make you see him differently or regret your support? absolutely. without question i mean, i was willing to support him because i looked back at his record and when i was appointing justices particularly the supreme court or any of the judge s. what i look for is how many times said they ve been overturned? did they write clear opinions and were they able to judge cases based on the facts presented to them in that case. and i actually saw a case that judge alito had actually had decided in favor of a plaintiff. it was clearly against what his personal convictions were relative to the matter of choice send abortion. and so my feeling was okay, he s shown that he will put aside his personal convictions to judge and decide a case based on the facts presented in that case unfortunately, since he s gone to the supreme court, that s just seemed to have gone by the wayside. yeah. i mean, obviously i wrote that wrote that opinion in roe v. wade in the letter to congress about the flag, alito said his wife flew the upside down flag because she was greatly distressed. those were his words by disputes with a neighbor and explaining his wife s motivation to fly the flag. he wrote, quote, house on the street displayed a sign attacking her personally a man who was living in the house at the time trailed her all the way down the street and buried her in my presence using foul language, including what i regard as the violet epithet that can be addressed to a woman. now, i spoke to emily baden. she was the neighbor and the dispute she put up the sign alito refers to which he said didn t refer to mrs. alito at all her husband are now husband is demand and alito mentioned in the statement, but she by the way, was the one who used the epithet in alito s presence. it was not her husband, as he said, but i want to play for you, governor, specifically, something crucial. she told me about alitos claim about the flag i just want to emphasize that the interaction that happened on february 15th is the one that they re using as an excuse for why they flew the flag. and i really want to hammer home the fact that that happened on february 15, and their flag went up two or three weeks before that, at best, he s mistaken, but at worst he s just outright lying the flag was flying before the altercation that alito says was the reason that the flag was put up, right? that s what she lays out very clearly. he wrote his version of things, governor in a letter to congress you re not allowed to lie to congress or they re serious penalties to that should he address this contradiction? well, first of all, it gets very tired and you see these guys pulling their wives. i mean, khan really it besides it is disrespectful of the united states of america. that s america slag it s not if you have a controversy with your neighbor, you deal with it with your neighbor, call the police if you want, use the courts, he should know about that. but you don t fly the american flag upside down. and as you mentioned before, it s a very clear signal two people who were part of the insurrection, and then how does he explain the other flag at their, at their other home? i mean, is his wife just doing that without his knowing and without his caring. when you assume a role like such as the supreme court justice you have a certain standard. you set a message, you set a standard for the entire court. the court comes under scrutiny when this kind of thing happens as it has already anyway, for a couple of other issues and they re having and the lack of it seems standards while his wife, isabel, quite for my wife is fond of flying flags i am not. my wife was solely responsible yeah. you find that jarring really? yeah. come on. man up at least. and if your wife did it, you should have seen it when you walked in the door and said, that s got to come down and then make an apology. say that was all a mistake. but say she put it up upside down by mistake for pete s sakes, but you don t you don t ignore it. let it hang and let the other one fly as well. you deal with them immediately. you re held to a different level of it. this is just a basic thing. i don t care whether it s a supreme court justice or not. that is so disrespectful to the, to the american flag. i mean, he won t rigueur some january 6 related cases he did write an opinion in 2021, actually, for the supreme court about a flag outside boston city hall. and in it he said that anybody who is looking at it would conclude that all of those flags convey some message on the government s behalf. he wrote that he was saying, if you fly a flag outside the boston city hall, people are assumed that s the view of the boston city hall government. but yet when it comes to himself, he says, it s my wife s fall it is their real hypocrisy. there is one statement oh, absolutely. i think it s very clear the unfortunate thing is, no one seems to really care and it doesn t appear is if the chief justice is going to do anything about it i mean, they ve adopted supposedly standards of content of conduct, but they re going to be judging themselves and somebody inside they re gonna be looking at each other to say what s appropriate and clarence thomas is a whole another issue. so the court right now is not in the best odor, shall we say with the american people and the real tragedy here is that when the american people lose faith and the justice system, we re going to really dangerous place. and we shouldn t, we shouldn t be here. it s not a good place to be. we have to have faith in our justices we have to assume that they are going to judge cases based on those facts before them in that case. and to have this kind of thing going on on the outside is undermining and demeaning to the court itself. all right. well, governor whitman, i appreciate your time and thank you my pleasure next it started with three friends in a denny s and now their company is worth more than apple. that s right, more than apple today, the iphone maker tried to play catch up. i ll give you the inside story when the competition is it s a nuclear competition, spying is extraordinarily important the russians were trying to spy on us. we were spying on them it s very difficult to determine whom you can trust i was studying right everything got out of control this is a war the secret was secrets and spies, a nuclear game. sunday at ten on cnn when i was diagnosed with hiv, i didn t know who i would be. but here i am being me. keep being you and ask your health care provider about the number one prescribed hiv treatment, big tare the dharavi is a 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called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock.” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it s not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that s uncalled for. a bro pain-free absorbing for this cnn presidential debates, june 27, nine live on cnn and streaming and backs tonight, apple s stock slipping as it struggles to compete with the general public is rather a little known ai, company called nvidia. a company that is now worth more than apple and has the hottest stock in the world nick watt is out front ladies and gentlemen. this is blackwell take visionary dressed in black holding a thing that will change our world. you know, the drill. but this is the gray cpu. yeah, that s tougher to explain in an iphone and to unlock the phone, i just take my finger and slide it across hey guys, we work on something that is very important to the world that is incredibly hard to do. here s why you should care nvidia does is vital to artificial intelligence which will change everything. this is the company that makes the silicon that is powering all of these large language models. media is kinda everything in the ai space right now. it s almost like they re the only company making bricks during an old-fashioned building bu if you had invested just five grand and nvidia ten years ago. today, you re a millionaire and apparently that s not just built on crazy hype there are unverified online tales of even mid-level employees are massing multiple millions in stock options. i am not going to give you any financial advice that s not really my wheelhouse, but they re there is let s just say there s reasoning behind it. and in videos backstory is delicious, founded at this danny s and 1993 by these three dudes. they just hope to make for games look a bit better. one of them johnson, one still leaves the company, is net worth just topped 100 billion. and he s still hungry still thinking can we create a time machine so that we could see the future of climate change. let s see it today. and video survived an early near bankruptcy and eventually succeeded spectacularly on the video games thing with what they called graphics processing units or gpus. they ve dabbled unsuccessfully and smartphones successfully and crypto mining and took a big gamble moving beyond gaming graphics to more general use movies, health care climate modelling with processors that can make multiple simultaneous calculations. turns out they re fantastic for ai. they made a bad break correctly that it s the next big thing and they re making a very similar bet right now in the world of robotics. so as that begins to take off, they re gonna continue to be ahead of everybody. video is value just crippled from 1 trillion to 3 trillion in under a year. but video doesn t actually manufacture anything. they outsource that. they design still this is now the second largest corporation on our the planet with all our futures in its manicured hands toward holding this is the most complex highest performance computer the world s ever made. that that s why you have to care now, in the next few years, the competition is going to heat up in this marketplace for making the chips that train ai. but some analysts say that right now nvidia has maybe up to a 95% share of that market is they ve got a huge head-start on their main competitors intel and amd. amd just launched a new chip in video says are going to launch new chip every year that 3 trillion valuation peaceful world column. just said maybe
that s going to do it for us tonight. i told you it was going to be a show and a half. now, it is time for the last word with lawrence o donnell. that evening, rachel. i listened to episode one of the new podcast today, and i ve got to ask you a favor. could you stop doing this thing where you reveal really dramatic, interesting stories about united states senators i ve never heard of? because, one of the angles of me getting a paycheck out of this place is i pretend that i m like the senate expert around here because i worked there for a while and this is not helpful, rachel. i spend the day listening to you tell me about a senator i ve never heard of and by the way, the single most dramatic thing that has ever occurred in the russell senate office building where i used to work and i did not know what happened until today listening to you, and it s not supposed to be like that. i m very sorry. i will start doing podcasts that are about like state legislatures and states you ve never been to. and rachel, i am filled with questions and possible spoiler questions that you are free to deflect, but could you possibly join me after i get a little worked on here about donald trump s probation, to talk about the podcast because there are just so many things i want to see if you can answer and then of course there are things you might not want to answer. i would love it. i look forward to answering your questions and to dodging them. all right. just get into your slippers well i do a little chat with andrew wiseman. thank you, i will see you in a minute. today was a routine workday for america s 93,900 probation officers. but, one of those probation officers had the least routine workday of that probation officers life today when that probation officer in new york city became the first probation officer in history to interview a former president of the united states. donald trump s first probation interview today is a standard and necessary part of determining what sentence donald trump should receive after a manhattan jury found him guilty of 34 felony charges of falsifying business records with criminal intent to violate new york election law and the 2016 presidential election. the probation department will use donald trump s responses to date to determine what sentence the probation department will recommend for defendant trump at his sentencing hearing on july 11th. in yet another demonstration of donald trump getting extra favorable treatment while he is complaining of being persecuted, judge merchan allowed donald trump s defense lawyer to attend the first probation meeting and allowed the meeting to take place virtually with donald trump in florida. special treatment for donald trump did not go unnoticed by the legal aid society, vermont defenders, new york county defender services and neighborhood defender services. they issued a joint statement saying all people convicted of crimes should be allowed counsel in their probation interview, not just billionaires. this is just another example of the two-tiered system of justice. presentencing interviews with probation officers influence sentencing and public defenders are deprived of joining their clients for these meetings. the option of joining these interviews virtually is typically not extended to the people we represent either. to ensure integrity and fairness, we call on nyc department of probation to ensure that all new yorkers, regardless of income, status or class, receive the same presentencing opportunities. nbc news is reporting that the interview lasted less than 30 minutes and that donald trump s probation officer is a woman. cnn is reporting that the commissioner for the new york city department of probation was present, along with general counsel for the department. joining our discussion now is martin horn, former commissioner of new york city s department of probation. thank you very much for joining us tonight. first of all, we want to get a sense of how unusual this was. we already have the sense that it was a bit unusual, but as to the presence of counsel and it being remote, you have these people representing other defendants, saying that is never available to us. that is correct. it is highly unusual. i think it is appropriate to make some accommodation and recognize the fact that when trump shows up his going to be accompanied by secret service. he s going to be accompanied by the press, and his presence might be disruptive, so the idea of doing the interview remotely doesn t trouble me that much. i think it is somewhat appropriate and certainly during covid, we made use of these remote kinds of interviews. i think you could make arguments both ways. the presence of counsel is highly unusual, and the presence of the commissioner is something i have never heard of in 40 years in this business. can you think of a reason for doing it if you are a commissioner at the time, would you do it? would you join that meeting? no. i cannot think of a reason to do it. i think it skews the interview. i think too many people in the room is distracting and disruptive and not conducive to candor, so no. i definitely would not have done it and i don t think it should ve been done in this case. 30 minutes is the report we are getting. what do you make of that? sounds abbreviated to me. usually these things take at least an hour. the content of what this interview was supposed to cover, and what the court is supposed to address is spelled out very explicitly in state regulations and it goes on in some length that it covers a wide array of issues. i don t believe they could be addressed and half hour unless mr. trump just refused to discuss all of them, which was certainly his right to do. there is reporting that he did cooperate and answer all the questions. i m not sure whether that is completely true but i m assuming that. what do you think are the most important things they should have obtained in this discussion? the judge certainly knows the defendants. he does not need to know much more. i think the important question to be addressed here was aggravating or mitigating circumstances. this was an opportunity for the defendant to set forth mitigating circumstances, and for the probation officer on behalf of the people to set forth any aggravating circumstances, but perhaps most importantly is the question of whether, if this individual is not sent to prison, but is granted probation, is this an individual who is likely to accept the terms of that probation and the supervision of a probation officer? and, what with the terms of probation be, and what would that supervision be like? all i can speak to is the typical case and obviously this is not the typical case, but typically a probationer would be expected to report to the probation office periodically, certainly no less than monthly at first, to keep the probation officer apprised of his or her comings and goings, certainly not to engage in illegal activities, not to associate with individuals engaged in illegal activities, certainly not to miss use drugs and alcohol, to fulfill his or her financial obligations both to his or her dependents, but also any fines or restitution that has been ordered. what about associating with people who have been convicted of crimes, many people around donald trump has been convicted of crimes. historically this has been discouraged by probation agencies around the country. it has been liberalized somewhat recently but i think it is something the probation officer appropriately would discuss with the individual to determine whether it is the association that is occurring for a good reason or not. thank you very much for joining us tonight and sharing your expertise. this evening in florida, donald trump s favorite federal judge whom he appointed, denied trump s request to dismiss the case against him for violations of the espionage and act and illegal possession of classified documents. she wrote checks myths prosecution or other permitted by law, raise evidentiary challenges not appropriate at this juncture and/or do not require dismissal even if technically deficient so long as the jury is instructed appropriately and presented with adequate forms as to which defendants alleged conduct. judge cannon did grant trump request to strike one paragraph of the indictment about donald trump s alleged meeting with a representative of his political action committee believed to be his campaign adviser, susie wiles, and his golf club in bedminster, new jersey in 2021. the indictment says donald trump showed that person a classified map at that time. judge cannon said that because showing that map is not one of the charged crimes in the indictment, it is quote, not appropriate to include it in the indictment. in the ongoing scandal that is the united states supreme court, now there are tapes, thanks to lauren wednesday, winsor, who was interviewed by julie reid earlier this evening. lauren windsor is a progressive activist known to approach important republican people pretending to be an hour, making flattering comments than secretly recording their responses. she is a dues-paying member of the supreme court historical society, which has corrupted itself into an organization that allows right-wing supreme court influencers to comfortably influence right- wing supreme court justices at the annual dinner of that organization. last year at the supreme court historical society s annual dinner, lauren windsor made recordings of her chats with supreme court justices that even she found so uninteresting she did not publish them. this year was different. she got samuel alito to agree on tape to the goal of returning the country to quote, a place of godliness. is a catholic and as someone who like really cherishes my faith, i just don t know that we can negotiate with the left and the way that needs to happen for the polarization to end. i think it s a matter of like winning. i think you re probably right. one side or the other is going to win. i don t know. i mean, there can be a way of living together peacefully, but it s difficult you know because there are differences on fundamental things that really can t be compromised, so it s not like we re going to split the difference. that s what i m saying. i think that the solution really is like winning the moral argument, like people in this country who believe in god love got to keep fighting for that to return our country to a place of godliness. i agree with you. by contrast, chief justice roberts responded very differently. you don t think there s like a role for the court in like guiding us toward a more moral path? no. i think the role for the court is deciding the cases. that is for the people we elect. that s not for lawyers. i guess i believe the founders were godly, like were christians, and i think that we live in a christian nation and that our supreme court should be guiding us in that path. yeah, i don t know that we live in a christian nation. i know a lot of jewish and those muslim friends would say maybe not. let s not our job to do that. our job is to decide the cases as best we can. and samuel alito made his wife very much a public figure by blaming her publicly for flying flags supportive of the january 6 insurrection at the capital at their homes, you might expect mrs. alito to have little to say to strangers about flags. and you would be wrong. what you think they re coming after you? i mean like the whole like appeal to heaven flag was like right. the other thing is feminazis believe they should be in control. feminazis was a term coined by rush limbaugh. fox news had not even been invented yet and so samuel alito s wife is quoting material from rush limbaugh that is over 30 years old. that is how long she has apparently been listening and taking direction from the likes of rush limbaugh. you know what i want? i want a sacred heart of jesus like because i have to look across the lagoon at the flag. for the next month and he s like oh, please don t put up a flag. i said i will do it because i m deferring to you but when you are free of this nonsense, i am putting it up and i m going to send them a message every day, and every week i m changing the flags. this is how i satisfy myself. i made a flag into white and it is yellow and orange flames around it and is the word for shaman italian. andrew weissmann, msnbc legal analyst and co-author of the best-selling book, the trump indictments. andrew, this is quite an interesting window of sound into the thinking of senator alito and chief justice roberts. well, the description from both of them could not be more striking in terms of where the country is, and you know, we are hearing from a man who is the principal architect for the reversal after 50 years of roe versus wade. his thinking is in that decision is, i think, just this week as his thinking that was shown in the letter he submitted trying to justify the flag incident, and you also have this dichotomy because you have the chief justice saying what is of course the correct thing to say, and we are on the eve of getting a decision on presidential immunity and it is a real sort of blot on this country and the judicial system had to be so direct that you have justice alito and justice thomas sitting on decisions that is not the way the country is supposed to be operated. it s not the way the court is supposed to be operating and their conduct is reflected on these tapes but their conduct in many ways even without these tapes is something that is really besmirching a really important branch of government in this country that we are entitled to count on and it is very hard to have faith in the system when you have that kind of conduct in these types of tape recordings coming out. we also have in these tapes now something very close to proving that samuel alito supreme court justice lied, lied publicly about the flags and the reason for the flags being up because here is the person who he is blaming on the flags being up saying she wants to do these flags just because of the flags that other people have including the pride flag that somehow is oppressive to her. absolutely. there is nothing in there about a response and we know that even that story, the timing of that story did not make any sense in terms of what it was supposed to be in response to, as we have now heard with respect to the police report and the neighbor across the way, and so what is really amazing to me is that there is just zero accountability of the supreme court and that is where chief justice roberts is much as he may be a good man personally and obviously said the right things which you don t really get credit for that for saying the right thing because that is what is expected but that is where he is to blame for not taking stronger action and there are a number of things he can do that would put more pressure on two justices who are really not upholding their oath of office in a way that helps this country , whatever side you are on. if you saw this from a so- called liberal justice i think we would be just as outraged and of course you would hear just as much but rightly from the far right that it is not appropriate behavior. you know, i will speak for me and i think this applies to you. i spent most of my life finding it inconceivable that we would be doing a story about a supreme court justice lying and lying about something important in public that affects the integrity of the courts on decisions and i am now realizing in retrospect that the reason that was inconceivable was really the supreme court justices themselves who we grew up with, who could not possibly step in these things the way samuel alito and clarence thomas have, but especially a leader with the flags and his wife making his comments to a stranger about the flags that have become something far beyond controversial. the flags that they are flying that share the spirit of the january 6 insurrection, all of that just completely inconceivable not because of any ethics enforcement body, but simply before because who was actually serving on the supreme court, whether we agree with them or not during most of our lifetimes. i want to point out one other aspect of what he was hurt now on tape saying, which is that the christian nation should be brought more to be a christian nation and as a jewish-american, that is not what our country is about. there is an establishment clause that is supposed to separate our religious beliefs which everyone is entitled to their own, but it is not established by the government, and that principal is very much under attack right now with at least five, if not six justices, but hearing that from justice alito s mouth basically just rips off any sort of pretense as to what is going on, and it really tells you very much how dishonest the dobbs decision was that reversed roe versus wade, this idea of we are sending it back to the states. that is not what is going on. this was part of a religious fervor that was animating what was going on, and you have justice alito really just saying it out loud, whether you like the idea of the tape recordings happening in the way they were done is neither here nor there, because you know, there was nothing that prevented him from responding in a way that justice roberts responded, which was entirely correct. the tape reveals the profound depths of the stupidity of samuel alito. we are out of time for this discussion. andrew weissmann, thank you very much for joining us tonight. coming up, our next guest needs either a very long introduction or no introduction. i will decide which one during a commercial break. rachel maddow joins us next. has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. this soil will blow you away. it s the martha stewart of soil. nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don t take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it s time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein! those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. -ugh. -here, i ll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend wibiotic ( ) organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. look at that! the broccoli was fantastic. that broccoli! i think some of them were six, seven pounds. craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office. i think some of them [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. wyoming in the 1940s. wonderful wyoming, state of promise, land of far horizons. horizons, promise, also, pigeons. lots of pigeons. there was a serious infestation of pigeons. that is roger mcdaniel, a wyoming historian and author. he also served in both houses of the wyoming state legislature, and the pigeon infestation he is talking about was that his old workplace at the wyoming state capital. that is the start of season two of rachel maddow presents ultra, the broadcast in which rachel once again introduces us to a u.s. senator i have never heard of. lester hunt is the man who climbed out on the window ledges at the state capital to drop poison to kill the pigeons. lester hunt, when he did this, was the newly elected governor of the state of wyoming. it gives me pleasure to introduce to you at this time the honorable lester hunt, governor of wyoming. he set his sights on the u.s. senate and he won that race. a distinguished guest for the evening is the honorable lester c. hunt, the senator from wyoming. the most popular politician in his state. lester hunt, newly elected u.s. senator, he heads to washington to do what he has always done, to advocate for his constituents, the people of wyoming and also to try to do some good for the rest of the country. he is as poised as anyone could be for success in that job, but things are about to change for him radically. what he is about to encounter in washington will cost him his life. he will not live to see the end of even one term as a u.s. senator. joining us now is rachel maddow. you can get the first episode of ultra, second season now anywhere you get your podcast or subscribe to msnbc premium on the apple podcast up to get every episode early and add free. rachel, i can t take it. listen. we have 10 minutes. it s just us. tell me all the rest of it right now. like i can t wait for the next episode, just go. so then what happens? well, and then there is us at the end of it. it becomes the america that we know. i m not going to tell you the whole story. thank you so much for letting me come onto your show to talk about it and for listening to it and for liking it. lester hunt is i mean, he is not a completely forgotten figure, but the thing things went so badly for him very quickly after he got to washington that went i have tried to do in episode one is create the lost sense of possibility. he really did lose his life to the scandal i am writing about and working on in this podcast and it is a huge loss for the country because he did have a long, bright future ahead of him if everything leading up to his life and that moment was anything to go by and i feel like i have become really good at resurrecting old villains we had forgotten about from history, but lester hunt is one of the good guys that we need to unearth and remember his legacy, too, and the loss of him is something that went really wrong with extremism in american politics. it is something we should regret and remember and commemorate. yes, so he is a democrat getting elected in republican ohio wyoming, a difficult thing to do and impressive no matter when you hear that. he is kind of the jon tester of his time there in that situation. but, apparently very naove when he gets to washington in such a way, and i m speaking beyond what i know because all i know is episode one but clearly, he gets eaten up by washington, so this is a drama about more than him. so, what happens with him, and you will get there very quickly in the next couple of episodes, is that he is confronted in the senate with the first major thing he does in the senate. there is another senator who is in the opposite party, who is his opposite number and this other senator gets involved in a nazi propaganda campaign, this dirty false conspiracy theory tale that is designed to hurt the united states, and lester hunt realizes what this other senator is doing. he is repulsed by it in the come to loggerheads in the senate over this thing the other senator is trying to advance in part of the reason i wanted to do this story is learning that while that is happening, while there becoming mortal enemies in the united states senate, they also lived next door to one another, and their backyards back up onto one in each and others houses and how they have decided they re out to destroy each other, they can see how each other is living, and that only ratchets up the revulsion lester hunt has for this other senator and he just decides you know what? i m going to take the political risk. i ve got to stand up against a monster like this and he does and it is for the good of the country and cost him his life, but what he is fighting for, and the reason he is fighting against that foreign influence operation in washington and the low down dirty depth some people were willing to go to for political gain is an inspiration to me even though it cost him his life. so, the first season of ultra taught us about the poll that fascism had in the united states, the attraction it had for some people, how far they were willing to go to advance the cause of fascism here, and that is pre-world war ii and into world war ii, that story, and this takes us to a period after world war ii where it hasn t you make the point that those people, most of them tended to disappear after pearl harbor, but that did not mean they stop thinking what they were thinking. it also did not mean they went away in politics. one of the things you and i talked about a lot with season one is that it became kind of a forgotten story, the great sedition trial, all the americans who sort of worked with a nazi agent who wanted nazis to win world work two were defeated in the united states and that means we forgot their stories and we forgot them pretty quickly. when they were all kind of let go and didn t get prosecuted for it, not successfully prosecuted for it or in the case of members of congress, none of them were prosecuted at all, their story was mostly forgotten and those of them that stayed in public life kept being the same kind of people they were before, and so, for example, one of the characters in season two is a guy who was part of the silver shirts and linked to the german-american phone that was riding for charles conklin s publication. those are all entities we learned about an altar season one. in season two, he ends up being the subject of an international years long manhunt by the united states government. they believe him to not be just an american fascist, but an american fascist and a traitor and possibly a nuclear terrorist. so, it just gets worse when these people get away and he ends up involved with a republican senator who is a sitting senator in the united states senate, so when you let these folks get away with things, it is important you at least keep tabs on them to see where else they re going to turn up, because it s never good. so, how many episodes, rachel? eight. and those of us who want 16 or 24, what do we do? so, you tell stories in your show that are similar to this. they tend to be 20 to 25 minutes, something like that. each podcast episode is significantly longer than that. what is the difference for you as a storyteller in the way you approach the podcast as opposed to the way you approach the show? very good question. so, the podcast is basically a little book. or a tv show, like if you think about it if you put of the episode links together it ends up being something that i want to be able to hold your attention for about four or five hours. in order to hold your attention for that time, it has to be well told. we use a lot of archival audio, a lot of historical audio. finding the wyoming audio archives to get the sound of lester hunt s voice was an incredible odyssey and super fun, but the idea is that this is a single story arc that cannot be told in the course of a tv show. you need to stick with it for an eight-episode arc but by the time you get to the end of it, you should ve learned a whole nothing about american history and hopefully be propelled along the way by the dramatic interest in it, so that it sticks. i want these stories to be memorable. i m not just interested in these stories because they are not well known. i think they should be well known. like, we should all remember lester hunt. we should all remember there was an internationally wanted american fascist fugitive who was involved with the republican senator at the onset of the cold war. we should understand what happens when the great sedition trial in the united states and with all of those people getting away and all of those seditionist movements effectively getting away without ever being held criminally accountable for what they ve been charged with. i want those stories to be vernacular, to be part of the way we think about our history as americans in dealing with really strong, antidemocratic challenges, because we have a strong antidemocratic challenge right now so we should do what is in our armamentarium of options for how to respond to it and what has worked well in the past and what is not. and, the key to this kind of great drama is even if you don t care about democracy, and i don t understand you if you don t, but if you don t care about democracy, this is still great drama with great characters, perfectly told by america s friendliest voice to tell you scary things. the good news is, these scary things are kind of over, except there are big threads of them still with us now. rachel, by the way, an alternative name for altar that you could have considered it s more letters, but stuff lawrence o donnell doesn t know. that could be the title but it s hard to squeeze it into a small state space. i like america s friendliest voice for telling you scary stories. i may hit you up for the copyright on that. you got it, it s yours. thank you, lawrence. thank you, rachel. can t wait for more episodes. thank you. remember, you can listen to the first episode of alters second season everywhere you listen to your podcast. coming up, there have been only two presidents in the history of the united states who have issued pardons to members of their family. president biden has promised he will not become the third as leger deliberates the case against hunter biden. that is next with andrew weissmann. is next with andrew weissmann. cologuard is for people 45+ at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. i did it my way oh, why leaffilter? it s well designed, efficient, i appreciate that. leaffilter s technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good, guaranteed. what more could you ask for? call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. she runs and plays like a puppy again. his #2s are perfect! he s a brand new dog, all in less than a year. when people switch their dog s food from kibble to the farmer s dog, they often say that it feels like magic. but there s no magic involved. (dog bark) it s simply fresh meat and vegetables, with all the nutrients dogs need instead of dried pellets. just food made for the health of dogs. delivered in packs portioned for your dog. it s amazing what real food can do. when did i call leaffilter? when i saw my gutters overflowing onto my porch. leaffilter is a permanent gutter solution, so, you never have to worry about costly damage from clogged gutters again. it s the easiest call you can make. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. your son is on trial and i know that you cannot speak about an ongoing federal prosecution, but let me ask you, will you accept the jury s outcome, their verdict, no matter what it is? yes. have you rolled out a pardon for her son? yes. and president bill clinton s last day in office he pardon his younger half-brother roger clinton who served one year of his prison sentence after pleading guilty to cocaine distribution charges. 138 years earlier, president lincoln parted his wife s sister, the widow of a confederate soldier, and one of the thousands of pardons issued after the civil war under the proclamation of amnesty and reconstruction. that is the entire history of pardons for family members of the president. the jury completed one hour of deliberation today in the federal case against hunter biden. the jury is considering three federal felony charges against hunter biden. count one, false statement and purchase of a firearm. count two, fall statement related to information required to be kept by federal firearms license deal. count three, possession of a firearm by a person who is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance. the washington post reports biden s lawyers argued that prosecutors have not offered evidence that their clients was on drugs when he bought the gun and signed a federal form attesting that he was not using illegal substances, or that he took drugs during the 11 days the gun was in his possession. biden family members including first lady joe biden have been in attendance at the trial. president biden did not attend or comment on the trial, but issued this written statement last week. i am the president, but i am also a dad. jill and i love our son and we are so proud of the man he is today. hunters resilience in the face of adversity and the strength he has brought to his recovery are inspiring to us. a lot of families have loved ones who have overcome addiction and know what we mean. as the president, i don t and won t comment on pending federal cases, but as a dad, i have boundless love for my son, confidence in him, and respect for his strength. our family has been through a lot together, angela and i are going to continue to be there for hunter and our family with our love and support. after this break, andrew weissmann will give us his evaluation of the evidence in the hunter biden case. that is next. have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. this soil will blow you away. it s the martha stewart of soil. want to get the most out of one sheet? grab bounty. 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(dog bark) it s simply fresh meat and vegetables, with all the nutrients dogs need instead of dried pellets. just food made for the health of dogs. delivered in packs portioned for your dog. it s amazing what real food can do. if you have generalized myasthenia gravis, picture what life could look like with. vyvgart hytrulo, a subcutaneous injection that takes about 30 to 90 seconds. for one thing, could it mean more time for you? vyvgart hytrulo can improve daily abilities and reduce muscle weakness with a treatment plan that s personalized to you. do not use vyvgart hytrulo if you have a serious allergy to any of its ingredients. it can cause serious allergic reactions like trouble breathing and decrease in blood pressure leading to fainting and allergic reactions such as rashes, swelling under the skin, shortness of breath, and hives. the most common side effects are respiratory and urinary tract infections, headache, and injection site reactions. it may increase the risk of infusion-related reactions and infection. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or symptoms of an infection. talk to your neurologist about vyvgart hytrulo for gmg and picture your life in motion. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. look at that! the broccoli was fantastic. that broccoli! i think some of them were six, seven pounds. as hunter biden waits for the jury s verdict in federal criminal case against him we are joined by former federal prosecutor andrew weissmann. what do you think the jury is focusing on in this case at this point in our deliberations? well, before we get to that i want to point out that compared to the opening where we talked about justice alito and the concern about the rule of law in this country, this is an example, as was the new york criminal trial, of the rule of law working for you see the courts function even when you re dealing with the former president or in this case, the son of the current president. i think they re focusing on intent. the proof here is very strong that there was possession of the gun. there is very strong evidence of the addiction hunter biden had, and the issue is, was healed she aware during the relative time periods when he signed the form that said essentially he was not an addict, did he believe that he, at that point, was an addict and also during the time he possessed of the gun, for about a two-week period, did he believe he was an addict? in other words, there is an intent requirement. making a mistake is not for criminal law. that s for civil law but this is a criminal case so i think they re going to be focused on that. also there is sufficient proof, if the jury wants to find it, but abby lowell is an extremely good defense lawyer and we will see if he pulls a rabbit out of the hat, but i think the big picture for the public is less what happens in this case and the fact that you have a president of the united states living the rule of law in this country, and you have the rule of law working, even for the president s son. andrew weissmann, thank you very much. we will be right back. very muc. we will be right back. for pneumococcal pneumonia. i m getting prevnar 20 because there s a chance. .pneumococcal pneumonia could put me in the hospital. if you re 19 or older with certain chronic conditions. like asthma, diabetes, copd, or heart disease, .or are 65 or older, you are at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia. prevnar 20® is approved in adults. .to help prevent infections from 20 strains of the bacteria that cause pneumococcal pneumonia. in just one dose. don t get prevnar 20® if you ve had a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine or its ingredients. adults with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects were pain and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, fatigue, headache, and joint pain. i want to be able to keep my plans. just one dose can help protect me from pneumococcal pneumonia. that s why i chose prevnar 20®. ask your doctor or pharmacist about the pfizer vaccine for pneumococcal pneumonia. for moderate to severe crohn s disease skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn s disease. control of crohn s means everything to me. ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. control is everything to me learn how abbvie could help you save. choose advil liqui-gels for faster, stronger and longer-lasting relief than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away. chris counahan for leaffilter the permanent gutter solution that protects your home in so many ways, it takes more than one chris to explain it. but together, i think we ve got the job covered. like leaffilter s has your gutters covered. protecting you from getting up on this thing to clean out your gutters ever again. and you know how else leaffilter protects your home? 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athletes from naomi osaka to michael phelps, and on it goes caitlin clark has a confidence about her that is very much in keeping with someone born in 2000 to getting full blast title nine she is also so comfortable in insider skin, so composed. i met her for the first time on friday. interviewed are for the first time and i was even more impressed and i had been from watching from far. do you think there s any chances were running out of time that they reversed this decision. i i think we should predict i won t put words in your i think they re going to reverse this decision. well, they re announcing it tomorrow and i don t think they ll do it then she would be an alternate and there could be injuries. in fact, one of the guards is injured, right now and that could be tuition. to keep an eye on because you re right. there s such an outcry and i don t think usa basketball i know for a fact, having interviewed these people, they had no idea the national outrage that they were going to unleash. there s outrage, and that is i can tell. well, kristie, great reporting as always. thank you and thanks for putting up with me at this late hour. it gets a little psalter whereas the hours go on. thanks very much for watching. i ll see you tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. i might be a little certainly than two right here on cnn, anderson cooper 360 as next, have a great tonight on 360, real warriors and people don t. trump is now calling warriors, namely the violent mob that storm the capital, keeping them honest on the difference. also tonight, hunter biden s fate now in the hands of the jury how the defense and prosecution did and making their case. plus the latest in a string of cnn exclusives on decades of sexual abuse. the coast guard academy tonight of coast guard official break silence and says she was part of what she now calls a cruel coverup good evening. thanks for joining us. we begin tonight. keep romanness was something the former president has been saying a lot lately. and what it says about him. sunday is president biden was visiting the american military cemetery outside paris and frehse from marking the 80th anniversary of d-day. and at normandy donald trump was saying this there s never been people treated. more horrifically. then j six hostages. but those j6 warriors, they were worries, but they were really more than anything else. they are victims of what happened. all they were doing is protesting a rigged election that s what they were doing and then the police say go and go in, go in, go in, water is set-up that was that s the former president of the united states sunday in las vegas. and just to refresh your memory, these are the people he was honoring specifically the ones in prison for crimes they committed on january 6, or jail awaiting trial. and it s certainly not the first time he s called these people hostages ladies and gentlemen, please rise for the harb unfairly treated. january 6, tass ditches it s now part of his routine that recording he s standing in saluting four features him saying the pledge of allegiance while these inmates, whom he calls hostages sing the star spangled banner by the way, the former president began calling them hostages in november after actual hostages were taken by hamas, four of whom were freed in a daring military operation in gaza after almost eight months of mental and physical torment at the hands of hamas. and we ll have more on that tonight. but those are actual hostages. trump would have you believe the january 6 inmates are hostages and also warriors and victims? he said that to victims he also claims were invited in by police. so they re warriors and their hostages and their victims, and they re also according to him, lovers the love the 11 year i ve never seen anything like it. there was also a love fest between the police, the capitol police and the people that walked down to the capital so stir that in with all the rest. and here s the former president is reshaping the attack on the capitol. peaceful protesters full of love invited into the capitol by police who loved them and return. but who somehow tricked them and made them victims, who then turned into warriors who are now being held hostage. let me introduce you to one of these man who s presumably a warrior and trump size. daniel rodriguez. this is his photo was posted on social media by username deepstate dogs. rodriguez was part of the mob that attack police with metal poles and bateson stolen riot shields and chemical spray. and in his case has stun gun he attacked officer michael fan-owned with it, who later suffered a heart attack and traumatic brain injury rodriguez pleaded guilty like so many others have and was sentenced to 12.5 years in prison. his is one he s one of the people, the former president is calling a hostage and it shouldn t come as a surprise that trump is unfamiliar with what a warrior actually is. casey s watching, here s one from d-day technician fifth grade john jay pender junior he waited through machine gun and artillery fire carrying a vitally important radio assured omaha beach which he did despite being wounded once then again, making several trips back through enemy fire to get more equipment ashore until he was wounded a third time and died. technician pender was awarded the congressional medal of honor posthumously. president trump refused to visit the same cemetery that president biden. so many other presidents have over the years. and according to to his former chief of staff from being corps general kelly, quote, in the atlantic, he said, why should i go to that cemetery? it s filled with losers. had he gone, he might have learned what being a award are truly means separately, the former president now convicted felon, met by video conference de for a pre-sentencing interview with the new york probation officer, joining us tonight, former republican congressman and house, january 6, committee member adam kinzinger, also seen and chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst john miller and former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe, congressman. first of all, what is your as somebody who was actually what is your reaction to the foreign president calling the riders warriors and hostages and victims i mean, it s, it s thick and disgusting. obviously. i think we have to be careful to not allow this outrage to just numb us like this really should be. and thank you for putting this at the top of the show. there should be at the top of but every new show anywhere in the country at how agreed justs and terrible this as they, they re not warriors. the ones that went into the capital. most of them, if not all of them, have been arrested and tried. and interestingly, anderson, at the beginning when they started to get arrested, they were remorseful. and then this right-wing ecosphere put their arms around them singing the national anthem and stuff. and in that process, convinced them that they were victims and have made them martyrs and heroes. this is not something americans that aren t completely sold out to the cult should be, should accept and we should have this be a fresh outrage every day when he does stuff like this. it s also entering andrew. i mean, i know some actual warriors. they re not people who usually view themselves as victims or just sort of helpless victims. very often, how dangerous do you think it is for law enforcement and andrew and the public when you have the former president gaslighting his supporters because, i mean back in 2022, there was a guy upset about federal authorities searching mar-a-lago i ll go for classified documents. he was killed after trying to shoot his way into an fbi field office in ohio. it feels like du the congressman s point the former president just says this stuff and people just kind of ignore it. but i mean it has repercussions potentially yeah. so let s get the facts out first on this warriors claim. so as of january 6, 20 in 24, which is most recent numbers, i could find. we ve got 1,200 and 1,265 people have been charged in as a part of that january 6 case, 718 of them on that by that de had already gone into court. raise your right hand, sworn to tell the truth, and then said did it i m guilty to the whether it s trespassing or obstruction of official procedure or assault on police officers and others. so the idea that these people are somehow being held against their will for political reasons is absolutely absurd. and donald trump knows that s absurd. he knows it because he spent four hours that day watching the video tapes from behind the cloistered walls of the white house in the warm embrace of his secret service security team. so he knows exactly what happened that day. he knows those people were rioters and it s directionless and many of them have to their credit stepped up and taken responsibility for that. the thing that i cannot get past anderson is how many people give him a pass for saying absurd and secondly, false things like this. and you re right, these falsehoods that he, that he throws out in front of his rallies in support first, it is for political advantage, but it comes at the cost of driving up risk to people in the system. law enforcement prosecutors, and others. and you made the perfect example. ricky schifflin, who was outraged by what he undoubtedly heard the president say after the mar-a-lago rate decided to take it out violently on the fbi s cincinnati field office. that could happen any day anywhere around the country to any fbi agent or other federal officer by somebody similarly misguided. also, i m congressman. it s just i mean, it s kinda it s just i mean, it s sickening that the former president basically solve this so the october 7 hostages being held by hamas and islamic jihad and others as a branding opportunity and i think according to the washington post in november is when he started using the term hostages for the for those who have been found guilty of crimes on on january said x and re-brand braise, branding them january 6, hostages. i mean, it s it s really worked it is really warped in that was various student view to notice is that he never used hostages until there were real hostages. some of which are still being held, some have been killed that are being held against their will. i mean, look, i m probably started with marjorie taylor greene two she she came up with some of that, but i think the biggest thing to take off of what m kay six stood up, lindsey graham, i m done with this guy. we had a hell of a run, but i m done. you think of like marco rubio, all these people that know better, that just keep their heads down and don t say a word. this is threatening the very fabric of democracy because all we have to have for democracy to survive is a basic compact that your vote, you can vote, your vote will count and the person that wins wins. that s what donald trump was tearing apart that basic contact contract. that is the only requirement for democracy to survive. and he is turn these people that violated the rule of law into martyrs. and by the way, if we don t have rule and law in this country, democracy can t survive either. and he is just an absolute il, fit mentally flawed is probably the nicest way i can say it. former president and candidate for future president in america has to reject him. john i know you have new reporting on the former president s meeting today are interviewing with probation officials, which is a normal part of this procedure. what happened? so today, donald trump with his lawyer, todd blanche, over a microsoft teams connection, had this virtual meeting to prepare to assist probation department in new york city with preparing the pre-sentencing report that goes to the judge it was an unusual meeting in that present there was the commissioner of the new york city department of probation wanted to homes her general counsel, bridget hamline, and the probation officer who would normally be there by himself or with another officer who would do the interview. the interview was led by commissioner homes and a city official who was briefed on the interview afterwards told me that at all times donald trump answered the questions which were things about what are your living situation any health issues, family history, where do you spend more time? new york or florida? a lot of things that don t while trump, but thank everybody already knows. but commissioner home said these are the normal questions we re going to put you through these questions. they said he was polite, he was respectful and that at the end of the meeting he wished them well and ended the call with be safe and we just got speaking in new york city mayor giuliani, former mayor giuliani s mug shot from arizona authorities. he s been he was hard to get a subpoena a subpoena to fund. they finally did. this is his his his mug shot that s not the mug shot. will try to get it he s pleaded not guilty there to charges of trying to overturn the 2020 election results what what happened to him i mean, well, this has been an amazing rise and fall from a prosecutor built on the image of thomas dewey going after the mom i ve been crooked politicians to a mouthpiece for donald trump as president. and then the lead counsel. by the way, this is the mug shot that was another mug shot of his, which clearly he s gotten the lesson from that prior mug shot because this one is smiling at least that s right. the prior mug shot was from the georgia cases. so now he s on his second mug shot, but he has he has he has hitched himself to the donald trump wagon, but he s also been through multiple breakups and divorces. he s lost millions and millions of dollars. he s in bankruptcy, has apartment is up for sale and it was amazing to see someone who was the face and the voice of law and order in new york city for so long and then the mayor for two terms. a law and order meir, be someone who s going on his second mug shot and who has been disbarred and barred from the practice of law in multiple places endrew in a series of interviews over the past week, the foreign president has talked about, been asked about this whole retribution seeking. he talked about running. i am your retribution. he had said two months ago oh i just want to play some of what he said well, revenge does take time. i will say that does. and sometimes revenge can be justified. so i have to be honest, sometimes it can look when this election is over based on what they ve done. i would have every right to go after them and it s easy because it s joe biden but very terrible thing. it s a terrible precedent for our country does that mean the next president does it to them? that s really the question so in terms of if he is president using the levers of the justice department, the fbi, to go after political opponents in a second term, how would that how would he go about that? i mean, how how feasible is that? well, i think it s entirely feasible. i mean, it s it s interesting to me that across those interviews interviews with people who are like dr. phil and others who are trying to kind of get him to walk away from those claims. he soft petals it a little bit, but then you get down further in front of the rally crowds and really hits at home it is absolutely clear, said it many times in front of many different people. he intends to take the levers of power if he is reelected and use them for his own personal retribution, goals, which in and of itself is so unbelievably offensive should be to any american than any american president would purport to do such a thing. can he do it? sure, he can do it if he follows through with the plan that he s already laid out, this 2025 plan that they ve talked about. you ll replace those folks insignificant positions. the department of justice and the fbi and other lawn federal law enforcement entities with flunk who will do whatever he says so the first steps in this process of trumping up charges against people baselessly and throwing them in jail could actually happen. i think it gets tougher when those cases start to make their way through the courts but that takes a long time. and so i think it s reasonable that people who think they might be on the former president s enemies list start thinking about what does that look like? what could that, how can that actually play out? in your lives? and i think people are having those conversations just trying to figure those things out as we speak. interim cave, adam kinzinger, john miller. thank you. coming up next closing arguments in the hunter biden federal gun trial. and what jurors are now deliberating. and later the rescue of those four israeli hostages from gaza. how it went down, who helped? and more viroid that the most anticipated moment of this election and the stakes couldn t be higher, biden democracy is on the back hello, your freedom is on the ballot. trump, there is nothing we cannot do. we will make america powerful again, the president and the former president. one day two very different visions for america s future. the weight only cnn can bring it to you moderated by jake tapper and dana bash, the cnn presidential debate thursday, june 2789, live on cnn and streaming on max. though bike riders some people would rather crash it s, slow down everyone wants to be part of something up this climb out on that apple mourned is find the my own family bike riders read it darn old mean theaters, june 21 at bus to credit, we know when you re a small business owner, business this is personal every challenge is a chance to grow. when the time comes, bus due credit helps you get funding to expand your business are easy he inconvenient process makes it simple to take the next step on your journey. when a business is ready to grow, this due credit makes it possible viz, to credit funding. what s next thank you. discovered our newest resorts, sandi vincent and the 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the family you don t abandon your friends and family in closing arguments prosecutors pointed to the gallery of supporters and said, those people are not evidence and reminded the jury that no one is above the law. the prosecution directly address the most difficult element they have to prove that hunter biden knowingly lied on a federal background check form when purchasing the gun at the center of this case, the defendant knew he used crack and was addicted to crack at the relevant time period, adding that hunter would have been aware from his time in rehab that he had a problem with drugs maybe if he had never gone to rehab, he could argue he didn t know. he was an addict at the end of his closing, prosecutor leo wise circled back to testimony from hunters daughter, naomi, on friday, when she told the jury that when she returned her father s car to him on october 19, 2018, she did not see any other but in some drugs. but why is reminded the jury, hunter s former girlfriend hallie biden, his brother, beau biden s widow, had testified that when she found the gun in the same car days later, she found it alongside drug paraphernalia defense attorney abbe lowell countered, warning jurors not to convict his client in properly adding it s time to end this case. he compared the trial to a magician s trick, trying to dupe the jury, saying, watch this hand, pay no attention to the other one. hey, accused prosecutors of cherry picking evidence to present a more timeline of hunter s drug use and said his client was not lying when he marked down that he was not an addict on that federal form. lowell attacks two of hunter s former girlfriends, who both served as prosecution witnesses in this case. he noted zoe kestan took pictures of hunter with drugs, but not in the key month of october 2018. he also reminded the jury that hallie biden could not remember specific details about when she found the gun in hunter s car? and noted hunter was the one who told hallie to file a police report for the missing gun after she threw it out hunter did not take the stand to testify in his own defense in this case, a move that would have come with potential rewards and definite risks the jury will be back here in court tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. to continue their deliberations. it s impossible to say how long it it will take them to reach a decision on these three counts. but i was important earlier today, and then we re also attentive as the judge explain the instructions page by page line by line. these are of course, the rules that they need to follow as they undertake this historic decision anderson. all right. thanks so much more now. and how pros and biden mishandling the weight for the verdict and the biden family presence throughout the trial, including the first lady, who in back and forth during the french visit to be in court with her steps on cnn s mj leaves at the white house for us tonight. what are things like at the white house as they await the jury? well, you know, the trial of the president s son has been an extraordinarily sensitive issue for this white house. and the president. and it is not a coincidence that the president himself has barely commented on the ongoing trial. we heard him, of course, make a statement at the beginning of the trial thing that he loves his son and that he he is proud of him for showing resilience as he has fought addiction issues and then the other rare exception, of course, was in a recent abc interview where the president was asked asked whether he would pardon his son, whether he would rule that out actually, and his answer, a one word answer was simply yes. he would rule that out. the president anderson so it has been really clear that he is going to accept the outcome of the trial no matter what happens, and that he s just not going to comment on his son s case as three is deliberating that of course, is in line with the president sort of broader view that you just don t comment on a trial or a legal proceeding when it is still making its way through the legal system. and i should just note that that is an important area where the president had sought to draw a contrast between himself and the former president whom he has accused of trying to put his thumb on the legal system on an influence in a political way. other areas and other issues at the former president has dealt with this. of course, the president has made clear he sees as being wholly inappropriate. mj lee, thanks so much at the white house tonight joining us now cnn legal analyst norm eisen and jennifer rodgers, also former federal judge. sure. shannon lynne norm. what do you make of closing arguments? do you think he s going to get convicted? i thought both sides did an able job in closing arguments. the prosecution hammering the evidence that hunter biden and it was using or addicted to drugs before and after this key october 12th, two 23rd period. they don t have actual evidence about the de, but they have yes. and the judge instructed that you don t have to prove the de you have to show that hunter biden was actually engage aged in using or was an addict around that time and they have him checking into rehab before and after the various witnesses. but anderson, abbe lowell is a very capable defense lawyer and he leaned into that critical gap and the state of mind question this has to be knowing. that means it, hunter biden had to say on purpose, not by mistake i m not an addict. i m not a user. and low argues, well, he thought he was not an addict at that time. there s no proof he was using prosecution ahead on points, not impossible. you get a defense verdict or a hung jury what do you think yeah, i agree. i mean, i think they ll probably get a conviction here. there s a very narrow path for the defense to win this. they really do have to lean into this knowingly and they can t prove it on these days, but prosecutors always say, follow your common sense, right? like the guy has been in rehab, people around that time, there s these text messages about dealing and the hallie biden testimony about paraphernalia in the car. and so use your common sense. that argument does that make sense to you that well, i didn t think i was an addict on that day. and therefore, i signed this document, say i m not an addict. i think it s the only argument that the defense has. the question is, can the jury accepted? and i think contrary my fellows here, i friends here maybe maybe some jury juror or more jurors who are sympathetic to what he s gone through. and may have experienced something like that. sometime in their life i m going to cut him a little slack and say well, on that day, maybe you didn t use so that takes care of the use and as far as being an addict, well, maybe that day he thought he d come out of it and was no longer an attic because he was doing better even if felt if he fell off two days later so they might have a basis to draw that distinction if they want to, in your experience on the bench, i mean, is it tough for juries to see past this is the son of the president or someone to be famous, very tough, very tough. and the fans is a cut one way or the other. i mean, i think well, i think it could cut in his favor the families there. it s a high-profile family. somebody might indeed think that he s going through this because of that. and again, as we all know, it only takes one to cause a hung jury. so i m not as confident as my colleagues that there s going to be a conviction here, but i wouldn t put my money on a non conviction either. you the prosecution is aware of this risk because the first thing that prosecutors said in closing was all those people sitting behind the defendant are not evidence that s pretty unusual in my area is that that actually i thought a little aggressive i mean, here are these people there to support him? lots of people on the jurors, the jury have had addiction in their families. and here s his loving family there to support him and they re going to point out of and be like, don t pay attention to those people. i thought it was a little overly aggressive, if anything, it could have i liked it. it could have been it can boomerang because they re going to look over it when he said that, look right over at those three rows. think about parents and sisters and children and all the rest of it. they could just override this if they want to know and there s also some breaking news in trump s classified documents. kids, judge aileen cannon denied a defense s effort to dismiss the indictment, but she also struck a paragraph from jack smith s indictment anderson this was a motion that the defendants had brought attacking this indictment every which way from sunday they lost almost everything. and the question we should ask is, why did judge cannon for these relatively easy unexceptional challenges take so long dragging it out. she didn t give one gimme to the defense it s one paragraph, paragraph 36. it has to do with what happened at bedminster that conversation about iran documents. it s there as to give notice that the prosecution is going to introduce prior bad acts, but striking it was virtually or nothing, judge. judge. judge, what what s going on? well, in my mind, i was pleased that she got this done so fast from may 22 to june in tenth for her is practically speedy. so i was impressed that she didn t sit on this. obvious motion for very long. i have to tell you that motion is made in every case and it s never granted duplicitous snus multiplicities never works but they make it to preserve the record. nobody expects to win those motions. you do it to preserve so it didn t take her all that long to get this one done. i mean, given the history of other things, she has been delaying on, are you surprised by the length this thing is dragging out of in general in all the motion. but this motion was relatively fast. that s a good sign. maybe she s hearing us talking about her and she s getting her work done. who knows, but this thought was relatively fast. and as far as that foro for be the similar act is very clear that she had she is saying but at trial, there may be a basis to offer this evidence justice, and belong in the indictment. get it doesn t relate directly to the charge. jennifer, does this impact the chance to this thing moving forward faster i mean, the problem is we have so many outstanding motions that are complicated, time-consuming problematic seep emotions, the classified information, protection actin, and so on. it s just we re not moving forward in a way that it s good for going to trial. there s just so much should have saved those pages and all those words. to resolve the other leg gig motions that she has on her show, she s trying to get one off of her death. that s good. judge. edelman. thank you. jennifer rodgers, norm eisen. thanks so much. i ve next new video that dramatic rescue of four israeli hostages over the weekend plus their 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defense forces. they unleashed heavy gunfire searching for israeli hostages held by hamas a daring daytime raid that freed four of those kidnapped by hamas on october 7. and held captive ever since it was an operation that took weeks to plan after receiving intelligence that the hostages were being held in apartment buildings inside the nuseirat camp in central gaza, on the way out from gaza, all forces rescued our hostages israeli forces have been preparing for this rescue mission for weeks. and is rarely air force pilot involved in the mission told the jerusalem post that is one of the hostage it is noa argamani got into his helicopter, has units, quote, mantle of composure melted away the magnitude of the moment struck then he quote, immediately reported that the diamond is with us and in good health some of the special forces were disguised as displaced palestinians and members of hamas military wing. eyewitnesses told cnn we re also reports of large gunfire after the hostages were rescued at least 274 palestinians were killed in the operation, and hundreds injured. that s according to the gazan the 30s who do not distinguish between civilian and military casualties the israel defense forces dispute that number, saying the death toll was under 100 i want to say thank you. thank god. in israel, the families of the hostages express their overwhelming joy and having their loved ones returned safely after eight months in captivity. i haven t stopped smiling since my mug was returned to me. now is work continues for a ceasefire and hostage deal with 120 hostages still held by hamas there are some fears at this rate could be a setback. it s a legitimate question. it s hard for me to put myself in the mindset of a hamas terrorists. we don t know exactly what it is is that they re going to do as secretary of state, antony blinken travels to the middle east to continue ratcheting up pressure on hamas to take the deal. he also isn t sure what hamas will do. i can put myself, none of us can put ourselves in the myosin of hamas for its leaders. so we don t know what the answer will be but wall in egypt blinken also said that his egyptian counterparts had been in touch with hamas quite recently. i can t go into the details of our conversations today. except to say that artists and counterparts were in communication with hamas as early as recently as a few hours ago. now, during his meeting with prime minister benjamin netanyahu today secretary of state antony blinken can reiterated that the united states and other world leaders stand by that comprehensive proposal that president biden laid out ten days ago, and they say that israel has put on the table for hamas to accept. but so long as this period of uncertainty is extended, as us and other countries are waiting for hamas to respond to that proposal, the united states is concerned about the possibility of netanyahu changing his mind and deciding to reject that proposal, even though keys signed off on it for it initially went to hamas anderson, probably i would thanks. coming up. cnn exclusive, a us coast guard academy official resigns and breaks her silence about sexual assault allegations. and a decades-long cover up at the academy aldrich james is cold calculating cynical, and needs the money not only was the cia compromise, he also was compromised secrets and spies, a nuclear game sunday at ten on cnn i have moderate to severe crohn s disease. now, they re skye rozi things are looking up. afghans in intimately control macron s means in feel significant symptom relief at four weeks with sky rosie, including unless abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements sky rozi is the first il-13 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improved damage of the intestinal lining the jordi of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them may occur tell you dr. if you have an infection 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holes holes.com order. now the whole world is about to burn your team. they are decent people you want me we all belong with decent this is your last shot at home. one would fast at this due credit, we know running a business takes everything you have, and only a certain kind of leader has what it takes every new challenges years to solve. and there s no such thing as off the clock. you carry the weight of the problems for your resolved never wavers no one else can do what? you do we know your drive. we know your determination you ve come far enough to know successes for those who take this due credit funding. what s next? i m summons her body in washington and this is cnn ahead of what could be an intense congressional hearing tomorrow involving testimony from the command into the us coast guard academy official there has resigned and spoken exclusively with cnn about what she says was her unwitting role in a decades-long cover up of sexual assault allegations at the academy one. so per say, persuade excuse me, pervasive. it prompted a detailed report that was eventually kept confidential even from congress tells cnn reported it s disturbing findings last year this former official tells cnn she believes top officials used her to convince victims not to tell their stories to members of congress. it says she has proof. sunland safadi has the exclusive interview they put me in a terrible position. how dare they do this to me. they had me standing up in front of cadets for 11 years talking about honor, respect, devotion to duty, whereas there where s the respect to any of us? i m disgusted. shannon norenberg spent more than a decade as the sexual assault response coordinator at the coast guard academy, it felt like an honor to be there and help them with this thing that is so hard and awful and difficult and awkward and the coast guard did tell me they were taking it it s seriously. i felt like they meant it until she says she recently discovered leaders had used her to lie to victims, making her an unwitting accomplice to a massive coverup of decades of seconds sexual assaults at the coast guard academy. i had no idea that what i was telling those victims was not true. it started several years ago when norenberg was asked to take part in informing victims about a sensitive investigation, code named operation fouled anchor coast guard leaders had discovered that dozens of cases of rape and abuse from the 1980s to the mid 2000s have been ignored and covered up. the attackers usually left unpunished. i got a phone call from someone at headquarters for saying, hey, we want you to help out. they told me at that time that all of those investigations had already been done and that at this point, we were going to call everybody up an offer them an in-person meeting so that we could say we were regretful all the things that actually sounded amazing. i took these to every single meeting. the coast guard gave norenberg talking points to go over with the former cadet s who had been sexually assaulted. an apology tour where they were assured their cases were supposedly being handled properly after all these years, members of congress congrats and staff and dhs have been briefed on the general outline of the investigation, what was found, and what disposition decisions were made. we assured them the hey, we re handling this. we ve got this, we re taking this seriously. thanks for coming forward but it turns out actually the coast guard hadn t told congress. norenberg didn t know it, but the investigation was quietly closed. so the decades of assault were kept hidden from congress and the public until a cnn investigation revealed at all last summer, victims were never given any recourse. i trusted the coast guard implicitly and i assume that the talking point document they handed me was true i would never have considered that that might be ally. the cnn reports about operation fouled anchor have led to multiple federal investigations congressional hearings in an apology from the head of the coast guard, we fail to provide the safe environment that every member of the coast guard deserves. norenberg says, after seeing cnn s report, she feared she had been used in the cover-up. she found the talking points in our files recently, which confirmed it and start to read it. and i was like, that s not actually that s not what happened they lied to me. they lied to us they had me lie. oh, my god. they had me lie to them. and actually that s when i lost it because at first i was like, wow, that s crazy. the light and then i was like, wait they used me to. lie bow they planned it as far back as 2018, not to tell anyone about this. to protect the precious institution, they be trade the victims of fouled anchor over and over and over. this is my boot camp photo. norenberg says she was raped by a supervisor when she was an army recruit in 1988 and says she knows how it feels to be told there s nothing that can be done. she is resigning and going public about what happened. the public needs to know this is happening. people sign up to serve their country. this is how they re treated like trash. it s not okay in response to a cnn request for comment, the coast guard says the talking points were created months before the meetings with the cadets. and we re not updated then another former coast guard official who was present at the meeting said no victim was informed that congressional notifications occurred. i want to tell the victims of fouled anchor how sorry, i am to be a part of this terrible scheme. but let me try to make it right now. i m so sorry. i m so sorry something mr. product joins us now. what morning can you tell us about this hearing tomorrow? yeah. anderson, the head of the coast guard admiral live. linda fagan, should we testifying before the senate intelligence? committee tomorrow? so be talking about the changes that she promised to make in the wake of cnn s previous reporting. and she has repeatedly said that she wants to learn from the past. she wants to move forward, but shannon norenberg account here certainly adds the whole string of controversies showing that this sexual misconduct remains pervasive across the coast garden and definitely underscores that this is far bigger issue than she has publicly acknowledged. and we certainly expect that she will get some questions about normal bergs accounting of all this tomorrow as well. anderson, mr. friday. thank you so much. next to independent presidential candidate, robert f. kennedy jr. are the latest on his effort to get on more steep ballots. also, a fresh look he kennedy supporters and who he could be taking votes from three body serie a city client uses city financial expertise to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving. some more pet parents can get everything they need, right when they need it keeping more pets and families happy for the love of moving our clients forward for the love of progress 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symptoms but just okay. isn t okay. and i was done settling if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel rainbow is different and may help were invoke is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain or stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa relieved fatigue for some and stop joint damage. and in psa can leave skin clear or almost clear, red vote can lower your ability to fight infections including tb, serious infections, and blood clots. some fatal cancers including lymphoma and skin part attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with the heart disease risks vector have an increased risk of death, serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. dan saddling, ask you rheumatologists for renzo it, anybody can do it. check your eligibility in minutes at get life indeed.com, violent earth with liev schreiber sunday at nine on cnn independent 2024 presidential candidate robert f. kennedy jr. is trying to get on more state ballots and the scene and debate stage later this month. so far has officially qualified to be on ballots in six states. you see here, including michigan and california. he says he s on more, but that s not it verified. what is known as kennedy has double-digit support and some national polling better than any third-party or independent candidate at this stage, since ross perot 1996 yesterday, i ve seen on state of the union, michigan governor gretchen whitmer, co-chair the biden-harris campaign said kennedy has a lot of quote wild ideas and noted he does not have the support of his own family, but she also said this certainly kennedy or any third party candidate gives me some concern and it s to be taken seriously. we re now from cnn s even weekend, who spoke with kennedy s supporters on a 17 acre tree farm in suck ville wisconsin. dells stan braunton rides around the land with hope. the 2024 election will bring monumental change shape in 2020, i voted for trump, but now he says the former president s sounds like a broken record. it s all about the election was rigged and the court system is ray, this year, the wedding venue owner who plans to eventually transform his property into a wellness retreat is all in for independent presidential candidate robert f. kennedy jr. bobby s the first candidate who i ve i actually felt good about. i think a lot of people are very frustrated with voting for the lesser of two evils. is that how you view the major party candidates? yeah, absolutely a self-described conservative, independent stan braunton shares kennedy s vaccine skepticism, and learned of him through kennedy s work with the anti-vaccine group, children s health defense the 62-year-old typically votes for republicans, but he s attracted to kennedys anti-establishment message. ending the form was the financial corruption within our government agencies. and the fact that we can t trust our government agencies to do their jobs because they ve been hijacked by corporate interests. you don t think are government agencies can be trusted. know why? because they re bought and paid for. i found a video rfk jr. on youtube. recent college grad katie zimmerman voted for president joe biden in 2020 but now she spends her saturday mornings tabling at farmers markets like this one in wahba tulsa for the kennedy campaign he s coming to all voters and saying like, if you vote for me like you ll be able to afford to buy a house. first is i haven t necessarily heard biden safe things like that, that appeal to me if ultimately trump gets reelected how would you feel about that? i would not feel really great about that if he was elected into office, but i i wouldn t necessarily feel any guilt because i was able to have a choice and who i wanted to vote for dog denticola is a long democrat who never thought he would find himself lobbying trump s supporters. just switched to kennedy. what do you think this guy s go to 24. go watch when he s going to do you haven t even given him a chance because he doesn t i have a chance anyway, because it hard to convince trump s supporters to vote for kennedy. yeah, i actually just appreciate that he was willing to stop and talk to me, fed up with political polarization, denticola thinks kennedy can bring americans together and isn t worried about him taking votes from biden or trump a person like bobby kennedy who is really a messenger of unity, a message for all people i think that s why he s going to actually pull a lot of voters from both sides that s back on deal s farm. i shared desire for unity to address a deeply divided country. if we don t make some changes and find somebody who has creative solutions and somebody we can trust who wants to bring us together? we re gonna be on a world of hurt even rfk junior seemed to be pulling more votes away from biden or trump based on who you spoke to anderson kennedy s coalition of voters, they ve really span the political spectrum polling data does indicate the largest contingent could actually be those who didn t support either candidate in 2020. a lot of his support comes from the so-called double-haters. those holding unfavorable views
that will do it for us tonight. i told you that tonight would be a show and have. now it s time for the last word with lawrence o donnell. i listened to episode one of the new podcast today. i got to ask you a favor. okay. did you stop doing this thing where you reveal really dramatic interesting stories about united states senators i ve never heard of? because one of the angles on me getting a paycheck out of this place is i pretend that i m like the senate expert because i worked there for a while. this is not helpful, rachel. i spend the day listening to you telling me that a senator i ve never heard of, and, by the way, the single most dramatic thing that has ever occurred in the building where i used to work at i did not know it happened until today listening to you, and it s not supposed to be like that. i will start doing podcasts that are about state legislatures in states you never been to. rachel, i am filled with questions and possible spoiler questions that you are free to deflect, could you possibly join me after i get a little work done here about trump s probation to talk about the podcast because there are so many things i want to see if you can answer, and then, of course, there might be things you don t want to answer. i would love that. i look forward to answering your questions and dodging them? getting your slippers while i chat with andrew weissmann and we will do that. thank you. today was a routine workday for america s probation officers. one of those probation officers had the least routine workday of that probation officers life today when that probation officer new york city became the first probation officer in history to interview a former president of the united states. his first probation interview today is a standard and necessary part of determining what sentence donald trump should receive after a manhattan jury found him guilty of 34 felony charges of falsifying business records with the criminal intent of violating new york election lot in the 2016 presidential election. the probation department will use his responses today to determine what sentence the probation department will recommend for defendant trump at his sentencing hearing on july 11th. in another demonstration of donald trump getting extra favorable treatment, while he is complaining of being persecuted, judge juan merchan allowed his criminal defense lawyer to attend his first probation meeting and the probation department allowed it to take place virtually with donald trump in florida. a special treatment for trump did not go unnoticed by the legal aid society, the bronx defenders, new york county defender services and neighborhood defender services. they issued a joint statement saying all people convicted of crimes should be allowed counsel in their probation interview not just billionaires. this is another example of the two-tiered system of justice. presentencing interviews with probation officers influence sentencing, and public defenders are deprived of joining their clients for these meetings. the option of joining these interviews virtually is typically not extended to the people we represent either. to ensure integrity and fairness, we call on nyc department of probation to ensure that all new yorkers, regardless of income, status, or class, receive the same presentencing opportunities. nbc news is reporting that the interview lasted less than 30 minutes and that trump s probation officer is a woman. cnn is reporting that the commissioner for new york city department of probation was present along with the general counsel for the department. joining our discussion is the former commissioner of new york city s department of probation. thank you for joining us tonight. first of all, we want to get a sense of how unusual this was. we already have a sense that it was a bit unusual. as to the presence of counsel and it being remote you have these people representing other defendants saying that is never available to us. that is correct. it is highly unusual. i think it is appropriate to make some accommodation and recognize the fact that when trump shows up he will be accompanied by the secret service, he will be accompanied by the press, and his presence may be disruptive. the idea of doing the interview remotely does not troubled me that much. i think it is somewhat appropriate. and certainly during covid probation made use of these kind promote interviews. i think you can make arguments both ways. the presence of counsel is highly unusual and the presence of the commissioner is something i ve never heard of in 40 years in this business. can you think of a reason for doing it? would you have done it. would you join that meeting? no. i cannot think of a reason to do it. i think it skews the interview. i think too many people in the room is distracting and disruptive and not conducive to candor. i definitely would not have done that and i don t think it should be done in this case. 30 minutes is the report we are getting. what you make of that? it sounds abbreviated to me. usually these things take at least one hour. the content of what this interview is supposed to cover and what this report is supposed to address is spelled out very explicitly in state regulations, and it goes on in some link that covers a wide array of issues. i don t believe they could be addressed in a half hour unless mr. trump just refused to discuss all of them, which is his right to do. there is reporting that he did cooperate and answer all the questions. i m not sure whether that is completely true. assuming that, what you think the most important things aren t that they should have obtained in this discussion? i think that the judge certainly knows this defendant. he does not need to know much more. i think the important question to be addressed here was aggravating or mitigating circumstances. this was an opportunity for the defendant to set forth mitigating circumstances and for the probation officer, on behalf of the people, to set forth aggravating circumstances. but most importantly of all is the question of if this individual is not sent to prison but is granted probation , is this an individual who is likely to accept the terms of that probation and the supervision of a probation officer. and what would the terms of probation be and what would that supervision be like? all i can speak to is the typical case, and obviously, this is not a typical case. typically, a probationer would be expected to report to the probation office periodically. certainly no less than monthly at first. and to keep the probation officer apprised of his or her comings and goings, certainly not to engage in illegal activities and not to associate with individuals engaged in illegal activities. and not to misuse drugs or alcohol. to fulfill his or her financial obligations both to his or her defend dependence or any fines or restitution that has been ordered. what about associating with people who have been convicted of crimes? many people around donald trump have been convicted of crimes. historically this has been discouraged by probation agencies around the country. it has been liberalized somewhat recently, but i think it is something that the probation officer appropriately would discuss with the individual to determine whether the association is occurring for a good reason or not. martin horn, thank you very much for sharing your expertise. you are welcome. this evening in florida, trump s favorite federal judge denied his request to dismiss the federal criminal case against him for violations of the espionage act and illegal possession of classified documents. the judge said that the prosecution documents are permitted by law, raise evidentiary challenges not appropriate for disposition at this juncture, and/or do not require dismissal even if technically deficient, so long as the jury is instructed appropriately and presented with adequate verdict forms as to each of defendant s alleged conduct. the judge did grant the request to strike a paragraph of the indictment about his alleged meeting with a representative of his political action committee believed to be his campaign advisor, susie wiles, at his golf club in new jersey in 2021. it says that trump showed that person a classified map at that time. judge cannon said because showing that map is not one of the charged crimes in the indictment, it is not appropriate to include it in the indictment. in the ongoing scandal that is the united states supreme court, now there are tapes thanks to warren windsor. lauren windsor is an activist known to approach important republican people attending to be an ally and making flattering comments and secretly recording the responses. she is a dues paying member of the supreme court historical society, which has corrupted itself into an organization that allows right-wing supreme court influencers to comfortably influence right- wing supreme court justices at the annual dinner of that organization. last year at the supreme court historical society annual dinner, lauren windsor made recordings of her chats with supreme court justices that even she found so uninteresting she did not publish them. this year was different. she got samuel alito to agree on tape to returning the country to a place of godliness. as a catholic and as someone who really cherishes my faith, i just don t i don t know that we can negotiate with the left in the way that needs to happen for the polarization to end. i think it s a matter of, light, winning. i think you re probably right. on one side or the other, one side or the other is going to win. i don t know. i mean, there can be a way of working, a way of living together peacefully. but it s difficult, you know, because there are differences on fundamental things that really can t be compromised. so it s not like you re going to split the difference. that s what i m saying. it s just i think that the solution really is like winning the moral argument. like people in this country who believe in god have got to keep fighting for that to return our country to a place of godliness. i agree with you. and by contrast, chief justice roberts responded very differently. but you don t think there s a role for the court in guiding us toward a more moral path? no. i think the role for the court is deciding the case is. if i start would you want me to be in charge of guiding morals? i believe that the founders were godly, like were christians, and i think that we live in a christian nation and that are supreme court should be guiding us in that path. i don t know if that s true. i don t know that we live in a christian nation. i had jewish and muslim friends that would say maybe not and it s not our job to do that. it is our job to decide the cases as best we can. and since justice alito made his wife a public figure by blaming her publicly for flying flags supportive of the january 6th insurrection, you might expect her to have little to say to strangers about flags. and you would be wrong. why do you think they are coming after you? i mean like, the whole appeal to have have been flag the other thing is they believe rush limbaugh coined the term when he was not just the center of right-wing media, he was the only real national right-wing media. fox news was not invented yet so samuel alito s wife is quoting material from rush limbaugh that is over 30 years old that s how long she has apparently been listening and taking direction from the likes of rush limbaugh. you know what i want? i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. and he s like, oh please don t put up a flag. but when you are free of this nonsense, i m putting it up and i m going to send the message every day. maybe every week i ll be changing the flags. i made a flag in my head. it s white and has yellow and orange flames around it and in the middle is the word shame in italian. joining us now is andrew weissmann. he is co-author of the best- selling book, the trump indictments. andrew, this is quite an interesting window of sound into the thinking of justice alito and chief justice roberts. well, it could not be more striking from both of them of where the country is and we are hearing from a man who is a principal architect for the reversal, after 50 years, of roe v. wade. his thinking is in that decision is just as weak as his thinking that was shown in the letter he submitted trying to justify the flag incidents. and you have this dichotomy because you have the chief justice saying, what is the correct thing to say. we are on the eve of getting a decision on presidential immunity. it is a real lot on this country and the judicial system and i hate to be so direct that you have justice alito and justice thomas sitting on those decisions. that is not the way the country is supposed to be operated and not the way the court should be operating. their conduct as reflected on these tapes but their conduct in many ways without these tapes is something that is besmirching an important branch of government in this country that we are entitled to count on and it s hard to have faith in the system when you have that kind of conduct in these tape recordings coming out. we also have in these tapes, something very close to proving that justice alito lied publicly about the flags and the reason for the flags being up because the person he s blaming saying she wants these flags because of the other ones people have including the pride flag that somehow is oppressive to her. absolutely. there is nothing in there that i did it just in response. and even that story, the timing of that story did not make any sense in terms of what it was supposed to be in response to. as referred with respect to the police report and the neighbor across the way. so what is just amazing to me is there is zero accountability of the supreme court. and that is where chief justice roberts, as much as he might be a good man personally and he obviously said the right things. you don t really get credit for that because that is what is expected, but that is where he is to blame in part for not taking stronger action and there are a number of things he can do that would put more pressure on two justices who are not upholding their oath of office and away that helps this country at large, whatever side you re on. if you saw this from a liberal justice, we would be just as outraged and, of course, you would hear just as much, but it s not appropriate behavior. you know, andrew, i will speak for me. i spent most of my life finding inconceivable that we would be doing a story about a supreme court justice lying. and lying about something important that affects the integrity of the course own decisions. and i am now realizing in retrospect that the reason it was inconceivable was the supreme court justices themselves who we grew up with who could not possibly step in these things the way that samuel alito has or that clarence thomas has but especially justice alito with the flags and his wife making these comments to stranger about the flags that have become something far beyond controversial. the flags that they are flying that shared the spirit of the january 6th insurrection, all of that completely inconceivable not because of any ethics enforcement body but because, who was actually serving on the supreme court, whether we agreed with them or not during most of our lifetimes. i just want to point out one other aspect of what he was hurt on tape saying is that this is a christian nation and should be brought more to be a christian nation. and is a jewish american, that is not what our country is about. there is an establishment clause that s is supposed to separate the religious beliefs, which everyone is entitled to their own, but it s not established by the government. and that principal is very much under attack right now. with at least five if not six justices. hearing that from justice alito s mouth basically rips off any sort of pretense as to what is going on and it really tells you very much how dishonest the dobbs decision was that reversed roe v. wade. the idea that we are just sending it back to the states. that is not what is going on. this is part of a religious fervor and you have justice alito saying it out loud and whether you like the idea of the tape recordings happening in the way they were done is neither here nor there because there was nothing that prevented him from responding the way that justice roberts responded, which was correct. and it reveals the profound depths of the stupidity of samuel alito. andrew weissmann, thank you very much for joining us tonight. you are welcome. coming up, our next guest needs either a long introduction or no introduction. i will decide which one during the commercial break. rachel maddow joins us next. this soil 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[ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg s moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don s paying so much for at&t, he s been waiting to update his equipment! there s a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don t have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. wyoming in the 1940s. horizons, promise, also pigeons. lots and lots of pigeons. there was a serious infestation of pigeons. that s roger mcdaniel, a wyoming historian and author. he served in both houses of the wyoming state legislature, and the pigeon infestation he s talking about was that his old workplace at the wyoming state capital. that is the start of season 2 of the podcast in which rachel once again introduces us to a u.s. senator i ve never heard of. lester hunt is the man who climbed out on the window ledges at the state capitol to drop poison to kill the pigeons. lester hunt, when he did this, was the newly elected governor of the state of wyoming. it gives me pleasure to introduce you at this time, the honorable lester hunt. he set his sights on the u.s. senate, and he won that race too. our distinguished guest this evening is the honorable lester c hunt. the most popular politician in his state, lester hunt, newly elected u.s. senator, he heads to washington to do what he has always done, to advocate for his constituents for the people of wyoming. and to do some good for the rest of the country through service in the u.s. senate. he is as poised as anyone could be for success in that job, but things are about to change him radically. what he is about to encounter in washington will cost him his life. he will not live to see the end of even one term as a u.s. senator. joining us now is rachel maddow. you can get the first episode anywhere you listen to podcasts. and you can subscribe to msnbc. him and get every episode. rachel, i cannot take it. listen. we have 10 minutes. tell me the rest of it right now. i cannot wait for the next episode. well, i mean, and then there is us. it becomes the america that we know. i will not tell you the whole story. thank you for letting me come to show and talk about it. lester hunt is i mean, he stopped completely forgotten figure, but things went so badly for him very quickly after he got to washington that what i was trying to do in episode one was create the sense of the lost possibility. he really did lose his life to the scandal that i am working on in this podcast. it is a huge loss for the country because he did have a bright future ahead of him and everything else in his life leading up to that moment was not anything to go by. and i think i ve become good at resurrecting old villains who we forgotten about from history, but lester hunt is one of the good guys that we need to remember his legacy and the loss of him to something that went wrong with extremism in american politics and it is something we should regret and remember and commemorate. he s a democrat getting elected in republican wyoming. a difficult thing to do and impressive no matter when you hear that. he s like the jon tester of his time in that situation. but apparently, very naove when he gets to washington in such a way and i m speaking beyond what i know. but clearly he gets eaten up by washington and this is the drama about more than him. so what happens with him, and you will get there very quickly in the next few episodes, is that he s confronted in the senate with the first major thing he does in the senate. there is another senator in the opposite party who is his opposite and this other senator gets involved in a propaganda campaign . a foreign influence operation, which is an outrageous, like, dirty, false conspiracy theory tale designed to hurt united states. and lester hunt realizes what the other senator is doing. he s repulsed by it, and they come to loggerheads in the senate over this thing that the other senator is trying to advance. part of the reason i wanted to do this story is that while this is happening and while they are becoming mortal enemies in the senate, they lived next door to one another and their backyards backup to each other s houses. and while they have decided they are out to destroy each other, they can see how each other are living. and it only ratchets up the repulsion that lester hunt has and he decides on to take the political risk and i have to stand up against a monster like this and he does. and it is for the good of the country and it costs him his life. what he is fighting for and the reason he s fighting against that foreign influence operation in washington and the lowdown depth that some people will go to for political gain is an inspiration to me, even though it cost him his life. the first season talks about the poll that fascism had in the united states. the attraction it had for some people, how far they were willing to go to advance the cause of fascism here, and this and that is pre-world war ii and into world war ii. and this takes us to a period after world war ii. those people, most of them disappeared and one of the things we talked a lot about was that it became a forgotten story. the great sedition trial and the americans that worked with a asian they were defeated one way or another. and that means that we forgot their stories. and it means we forgot their stories pretty quickly. when they were let go and didn t get prosecuted for it and in the case of members of congress, none of them were prosecuted at all. their story was mostly forgotten and those of them that stayed in public life kept being the same kind of people they were before. for example, one of the characters in season 2 is someone who was part of the silver shirts and was writing for and in season 2 he ends up being the subject of an international years long manhunt by the u.s. government as, they believe him not just to be an american fascist, but a traitor and a nuclear terrorist. so this stuff gets worse. and he ends up involved with the republican senator who is a sitting senator in the u.s. senate. so when you let these folks get away with things, it is important that you please keep tabs on them to see where else they re going to turn up because it is never good. how many episodes, rachel? there are eight. and those of us who want 16 or 24, what do we do so you tell stories in your show that are similar to this and they tend to be 20 to 25 minutes. each podcast episode is significantly longer than that. what is the difference for you, as a storyteller, in the way you approach the podcast as opposed to the way you approach the show? a very good question. the podcast is basically it s a little book. it s a tv show. if you put all the episode legs together it s something that i want to hold your attention for about 4 to 5 hours. so in order to hold your attention for that time, it has to be well told. we use a lot of archival audio and historical audio and the wyoming audio archives to get the sound of lester hunt s voice was an incredible odyssey and superfund. but this is a single story arc that cannot be told in the course of the tv show. you have to stick with it. but by the time you get to the end, you should ve learned a new thing about american history and be propelled along the way by the dramatic interest in it so it sticks. i want these stories to be memorable. i m interested in these stories because i think they should be well known and we should all remember lester hunt and we should remember there was an internationally wanted american fascist fugitive who was involved with the republican senate at the onset of the cold war. we should understand what happens when the great sedition trial of the united states and with all of those people getting away and those seditionist movements getting away without ever being criminally held criminally accountable for what they ve been charged with. i want those stories to be vernacular and be a part of the way we think about our history as americans in dealing with a really strong anti-democratic challenges. we have a strong anti- democratic challenge right now, so we should know what are the options for how to respond to it and what has worked well in the past and what has not. the key to this great drama is, even if you don t care about democracy, and i don t understand you if you don t, if you don t care about democracy, this is still great drama with great characters just perfectly told by america s friendliest boys to tell you scary things. the good news is these scary things are kind of over, except there are threads of them that are still with us now. an alternative name for ultra you could ve considered, but stuff that lawrence o donnell does not know. that could be the title. it s hard to squeeze it into that small space. but what did you say? the friendliest boys? i might hit you up for that. thank you. i cannot wait for more episodes. thank you. you can listen to the first episode of the second season everywhere you listen to podcasts. coming up there have only been two presidents in the history of the united states who have issued pardons to members of their family. joe biden has thomas he will not become the third as a jury deliberates a case against hunter biden. that is next with andrew weissmann. to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving, so more pet parents can get everything they need. right when they need it. keeping more pets, and families, happy. for the love of moving our clients forward. when did i call leaffilter? for the love of progress. when i saw my gutters overflowing onto my porch. leaffilter is a permanent gutter solution, so, you never have to worry about costly damage from clogged gutters again. it s the easiest call you can make. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. limu emu. and doug. 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(thinking: eddie, no frasier, frank. frank?) fred! how are you?! fred. fuel up to 7 brain health indicators, including your memory. join the neuriva brain health challenge. ed gutters. including your memory. call leaffilter today. and never clean out clogged gutters again. leaffilter s technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. i know that you cannot speak about an ongoing federal prosecution. let me ask you, will you accept the jury s outcome, the verdict, no matter what it is? yes. have you ruled out a pardon for your son? yes. i m president the clintons last day in office, he pardoned his brothers sentence after pleading guilty to cocaine distribution charges. 138 years earlier president abraham lincoln pardoned his wife s sister. in one of the thousands of pardons issued after the civil war under the proclamation of amnesty and reconstruction. that is the entire history of presidential pardons for family members of the president. the jury completed one hour of deliberation in the federal case against president biden son and they are considering three felony charges. count one, false statement in the purchase of a firearm. count two, false statement related to information required to be kept federal firearms license delay. count number three, possession of a firearm by a person who is an unlawful user or addicted to a controlled substance. biden s lawyers argued that prosecutors have not offered evidence that their client was on drugs when he bought the gun and find a federal form attesting that he was not using illegal substances, or that he took drugs during the 11 days the gun was in his possession. biden family members, including first lady joe biden have been in attendance at the trial in support of hunter biden. president biden did not attend or comment on it but he issued this written statement last week. i am the president, i am also a dad. jill and i love our son, and we are so proud of the man he is today. huntress resilience in the face of adversity and the strength he has brought to his recovery are inspiring to us. a lot of families have loved ones who have overcome addiction and know what we mean. as the president, i don t and won t comment on pending federal cases, but as a dad, i have boundless love for my son, confidence in him, and respect for his strength. our family has been through a lot together, and jill and i are going to continue to be there for hunter and our family with our love and support. after this break, andrew weissmann will give us his evaluation of the evidence in the hunter biden case. that is next. breze has a microcp to control scent release so it smells first-day fresh for 50 days. 50 days!? 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well, before i get to that, i want to point out that compared to the opening where we talked about justice alito and the concern about the rule of law in this country, this is an example of the criminal trial of the rule of law working where you see the court functioning, even when you re dealing with a former president, or, in this case, the son of a president. there focusing on intent. the proof here is very strong that there was possession of a gun. there is very strong evidence that the addiction that hunter biden had and the issue is, was he aware during the relevant time periods of when he signed the form that said that essentially he was not an addict and did he believe at that point that he was an addict. and at the time that he possessed the gun for that two- week period, did he also believe that he was an addict. there is an intent. making a mistake is not for criminal law. this is a criminal case and they will be focused on that. there is sufficient proof if the jury wants to find it. it is very strong case. but abby lowell is an extremely good defense lawyer and we will see if he pulls a rabbit out of the hat. the big picture for the public is less of what happens and the fact that you have a president of the united states living the rule of law in this country and you have the rule of law working for the president son. andrew weissmann, thank you very much. we will be right back. what causes a curve here? 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a.j. way billings, montana. i thought we were supposed to swim away from the shark. noim awaw we have to punch the . which one is it now? you punch first, then you swim y away. i m telling you, an expert told me that s the wa.y to get out alive. scott from oceanside, california if biden refuses to leave the white house, it will be because he can t find his warefusey. maybe maybe he doesn t know he loses. k. fainiaom chester, virgini biden will be at the beach. it s jill who won t leav will bh the white house. oh, jill. drte house. biden. excuse me. that s all for tonight. dvr the show. hannity is up next. and always remember, i m waters and this is my world. and i woke up to. hannity and tonight, here- are six words in the english language that every democrat they love, lov englie to recites quote, no one is above the law. no nw if you turn on fake news, cnn media and see you re going to hear that phrase a lot, but only when you re talking about trump or other republican k abs when someone on the left commits a crime. that ss a crim a very differents for example, over the weekend, you had riotertoryexample,s drep as islamic extremists vandalizing historic monuments ,let s say assaulting law enforcement, hurling projectileumentss at a park rand no consequences. lookrits they were trying to han an insurrection. there were no arrests, fines, n no dramatic pleas on the left for anyone to be held accountabldramatic lefe. we ll have a full report and more video of this repotnd s disgusting riol with a message for thoseose wh who are mad at israel for and quite heroically freeing four hostages in gaza. and another message for fake news, cnn, which seem to think that the israeli hostages were simplyh released, know they wee rescued. but first, we turn our attentio.wen to some of the most shameless and morally corrupt people it n america.ld that would be the bidens, many in the mob, the media. they love to point. oute to that hunter biden s ongoing trial is an exampl oute that a biden can face justice. but in reality, hunter s is but a perfect example of the t will goour governmen to allegedly to protect the son of a prominent democrat.know a now, according to the very real contents hunter s very real laptop, the president s son engaged a life of crime for many years. the evidence seems transparentai ,overwhelming, but you decide it was on a massive scale. remember the fallout of the 20 2051 intel experts signing a off on a letter claiming the laptop had all the p s of russiandisi disinformation. this after three years of liesni being peddled over and over again, the russia hoax by the mediover agaa mob, all of it a , all of it based on a dirty dossier. lying the dossier becomes the basis of lying to face the courtss for four separate times, three of tir honored by mr. highe himself, james comey. in reality, the so-called expert.s were spreading disinformation. all they knew about the laptop was nothinformatioaboug. wan they only knew they wanted joe biden to win. you think they d apologize . don t hold your breath. now that the laptop is official evidence at hunter s gun trial.s well, fox news digital reached n inteto theew all 51 intel expers who signed on to the letter and most had no regrets at alld whatsoever. they gotno what they wanted. they helped joe biden get the election in 2020. some even claiming that it was the patrioti.c thing to do.c thn a means to an end. anyway, of course, joe biden b is now president. the evidence of the alleged wrongdoing. on that laptop is shocking. you have rampant drug use, hundreds of thousandsan of dollars seemingly. i can t say for sure spent soliciting, purported tax evasion on millions of dollars in income that needs to be investigatedthat n, refusing tox file tax returns in certain years along with the possibility should be investigated. money laundering. the possibility of fara violations tietied td his own f. many americans can rightly sympathize. sure many, with hunter s addictions and personal struggles, but not the millionsaddi of millions of millions made with businesses in whichitcheric he admits he had zero experience at all. or all the shady actions of hisn father s department of justice, whicish is politicized and weaponized. according to the new york times , the doj prosecutor that s tasked with investigating hunter, this guy, david weiss, remember he s going to sweep the whole thing planned under the rug. no charges at all.ll after purposely the statute of limitations run out on some of the most seriouoms tax chargs from the burisma years. plan a well got ruined by two brave irs whistleblowers on,k tt two plan b, that was the sweetheart plea deal that looped a temporary gun charge and with a few minor tax violations. no jail time. sadly, plan b was ruineduse because. the judge actually read the plea deal and started askingread t real questions aboe totally, completely abd nature of the deal. and now we re on to plan c. welli we pla, years of investig. let s make this guy the special prosecutor. let vestigat guy thes go into ad in delaware in a courthouse there, and hope foe inr the.s the jury has officially beguns their deliberations. you know, any outcome won t surprise me, including an outright acquittal cquittal or a hungg jury jury. but they ll decide if hunter is guilty on the three felony charges. count one accuses hunter of lyingthree felolous hun on an and purchasing a gun, swearing that he was not addicted to drugs. count two accuses hunter of lying to the gun dealer. count three alleges that hunter illegally possessed the guned t while addicted to drugs or actively using drugsdr . t the evidence seems to me overwhelming based on evidence from the trial ased o. r one day after buying the gun, hunter texted his girlfriend hue he was waiting for his dealer. the next day, hunter textedcrac his girlfriend, he s smoking crack. so let s be cleaso be clear. hs these allegations are not a joke. sou biden, his fellow democrat ,don t they love to lecture you about gun control? fac in fact, president biden is now proposing tighter regulationents surrounding lawful gun ownership and steep penaltiesars for anyone who dares to step out of line. ou son on trial. but gun crimes. but if this is the only trial the hunter faces, this will only prove that biden s, s as we have been telling you, is politicized and weaponized. the judge instructed the jury to ignore hunter s ties to thee first family. but let s be clear. only because of those ties that hunter now is only facing gun charges in the biden friendly venue of delaware. he s not getting the donaldp go trump treatment like trump got in new york with a valuation of mar a lago at a mere $18 million in a case that involved, well, valuations the judge in that civil trial was more guilty of valuationaudn fraud than anything they accused donald trump of. and then, of coursg th e, have the case of alvin bragg. misdemeanor statute t of limitations expired upcharge it to a felony electioa felonyng but don t even tell trump what you re charging him with. you , more importantly, about the bidens. , oligarchs.ign oh why did they pay hunter biden millions of millionsing to of dollars, according to the johnson grassley senate report. johnwhat services was he capable of providing if he was admittedly addicted to drugs at the time? now, if he was lobbyingf on behalhef of a foreign entity, why didn t he register r with fara? isn t that required by law?re and why did hunter and the entire biden family use over 20 shell corporationes, according to the house oversight committee? were those accounts used actually used to funnel foreign funds to different members of the familtow y? hmm. interesting questions. right. did the big gu y benefit from hunter s foreign deals in any way? according to the laptop, that apparently is very real. all ths very re guy had 10% pute for him and hunter complainedst- bitterly about giving half his income to pops and complained about, paying for pops as home repairs. why did the big guy lie to you? every one of you watching this show about meeting with his son s business associates, remember, joe said overme eve and over, he never one time ever spoke to his son. brother, anybody about theses fo foreign business deals. devon archerre said he recallse bi joe biden calling into at least 20 meeting s with and theses fore foreign business partners. and what about burismasiness, the ukrainian energy giant? hunter admits no experience in oil, gas, coal, ukraine when he goes on good morning the america, but then gets paid millions to sit on that company s board d. and th and then joe, you might recall, braggeencalld about leveragings a billion of your dollars to get the ukrainiantoe ukrain m investigating this company and his son firepahis son d, brt getting it all done within 6 hours. the resultt gettin of that firig hunter continues to get paid four zero experience. never mind the chinese energy conglomerate cfc. we ll save that for another day. as you can tak see, hunter s gue trial is really just the tip of the iceberg. frankl of they, i would call itw hanging fruit when it comes to hunter and just below the surfac e. y pict it s not a pretty picture. make no mistake, when a family can ostracizuran no miste ize tn five-year-old granddaughter and ignore her until shamed by maureen dowd at the new york times and then neverl even follow up to talk to helor meet with her, include her. it s pretty safe to assume the worst. but of course, everyone, including hunter, they were innocenthunt until proven guilty in a court of law. right. so tonight, we continuighte a to await the verdict out of delaware. not exactly an unfriendly venuen for biden. here with reaction, we have fox news contributorn. e on jonathan turley john. and let s get your take on the case as an outside observer following it as closely as you. i felt the evidence was you , incontrovertible. i thought i actually was well, i actually was pretty impressed with the prosecution in this casey impres in, the case that t eventually did put on, but only because they were forcedy we to. well, the prosecution did an admirable job. i mean they were right on it. v they had a very tight case. what was most impressivede is that abbe lowell, the defense counsefense l, put p a series of defensese that collapsed within two days. the prosecutor just methodically. s method destroyed all of these claims. and in a normal case, that jury would have been out for an hour, come back with a conviction. i mean, this is very obviouslyss an offense that was committed, but that s not what the realffee is. i mean, these as implausible as these arguments are, they re really placeholders. the defense playing to a delaware jury. this is biden town. thisware jurden town is wilming this is where the home of thefay biden family resides. and i think they re hoping for a jury nullification.. and to add to that i s a certain degree of sympathy for someone who had a tragic fightso w with with drug addiction. so we ll see what happens tomorrowlltomorr. ment there s no question in my view that the government stuck the landing here. they prove the case. the question is whether they cane the caestion get the y to consider the evidence and not justt wh who the defendt is. what do you think the most? and i thin youk, i do respect abby as an attorney. i think the one thing hunter does have goin e ong for him is abbe lowell. and i would argue there are noto many great attorneys in d.c., but he is a good attorney for sureat. ght and i thought he did as effective a job as he couldwe considering the hand that he was dealt, which was awful. with that said, do you think he was able to cast doubt in any area that sticks out in your mindha? no, no, i you know, the argument that was made by abby starting out was maybe brmeone else checked out box and they brought this mr. cleveland forward who just blew that out of the water and said, i stood there, watched him check that box and the otherg to boxes and told him to take his time, which he dids time. of then said, well, he was really sort of rushed into buy buyingin gun and cleveland saide no. he came in intendingnding to toy a gun. and then there was this ludicrous argument that hed thes sort of immaculate period of sobriety or, at least he was just drinking, not using drugs v . and the government destroyed it and showed a texent it the veryr day where he s trying to meet mookie to score more drugs.t and the day after that, sayingg that he s doing crack in a car.m and he had witnesses come forward to say that when they saw the crackayt , he doint every 20 minutes. so none of these thing livs survived within two days. but again, that s not to do with me unless i m sure the prosecutor. i m sorry, sylvester. i apologize. i thought you were finished. do a, you agree with me that theorta real important issues that people shouldntat be concernedriou about, then this is a serious ss issue that the crime aspect him and charging him here. but i think the more serious issues involve how much moneyy that this that hunter was heking without experience at a time he s addicted to drugs seemingly offering no services that we can identify as of now . no, that s exactly right. blewknow what s, amazing about this case is that it blew away their own defenser own desr that the media has been repeating for years. they ve been suggesting that hunte r biden really was this incredibly competent in demand. businessman and international expert in his book and in this a trial, it s clear that he was addicted and having a very difficult time managing moste. basic parts of his life. but he was getting millions from these companies wasons. yeah.. all right. jonathan turley, professor, ank you for joinin g us. for now, fox news legal analyst gregg jarrett. harvard law professoing us, for alan dershowitz. professor, you re actually on a satellite tonight, as i, zo don t have you on your little zoom thing. it s great to see you a little bit more clearly. we ll start with you tonight. let s get your taker take on the case. do you agree with the last question i asked professor o and turley, which is about, you know, this is low hangingw, fruit as far as i m concerned, considering the millions of millione s of dollars that they brought into this family at a time he s addicted to drugs and at, you know, with no experiencend, admittedl. in an interview on good morning america. look, the best thing that could possibly happet thinn to, donald trump, is if hunter biden gets acquitted because. en i the evidence against hunter biden is so much, so much more compellinh moreg. the legal issue is so much more compelling than anything against trump.t this and it will prove beyond any doubt that this is all about wherall abe the trial wasc conducted, that if you re trump and you tried in new yortehak, i it s automatic guilt. and if you re biden and you re triec guilif you rd in delawarea different verdict. so the best thing that could possibly happen, trump, is the acquittal of biden. based on all of this evidence. c it would also be aa. good thing for the for america. it would it would uncover and disclose the horrible crimi double standard that our criminal justice system is going throughnaicstem i. maybe we could get some reform. maybe we can do something about it right now. our criminal justice system jug of the world.h and i feel just so horribleable about. it i ve devoted six years of my life to trying to defend tars of and explain a legal system based on neutral principle is g that legal system is gone. the trump case destroyed destro. and if there were an acquittal in this case, at least it would expose it itt. now, there may be a conviction in this case because the evidence is so overwhelmingn that won t hurt donald trump. but if there were an acquittal, it would help donaldalt bu wer t trump enormously in the court of public opinion. pu that the acquievef new york verdict was justified. if there s an acquittal in this casen th, there s such a difference in terms of the venue, it seems. diff greg, that if you want equc justice and equal application of our lawatios and you want constitutional order, it s all going to depend on the venue.t l it s all going to depend on whether how politicizedprosec weaponized the prosecutor may be and how abusively biasede the judge can be. mm-hmm. a yeah, it blows a hole in thes notion constitu usually of an impartial jury. but here are the facts here.e so simple. the law is clear. the evidence of guilt overwhelmingthidence o the argut that hunter was in denial about is addiction. so that somehow forgives his lie. that is so. but look, if a hometown jury is already in your back pocket, then jonathan s right. sympathy and jury mightnotifi actually work. and it doesn t matteca r that jurors are not allowed to negate the law. they do it anyway sometimessecrc because secrecy them.pleaseions they could do as they please without consequence. having said that, prosecutors do have an advantage. ,they don t have to prove that hunter was high on drugs or addicted. ought the day bought the gunth only during the general timeframe, and that was proventt conclusively through text messages, photograph s, oo witnesses, his own words from the book he wrote. hunteotr, it turns out, was the best witness against hunter tohich is precisely why he chose not to testify. e been he would have beenly completely shredded on cross-examination shredcrossi all right. predictions. professor dershowitz essor de? well, i think the evidence a coo overwhelming there could be a conviction, but i wouldn t be surprised if we sawbut jury nullification. remember, jury nullification cuts both ways. what happenee saation.d in new n jury nullification. the jury found an innocen nev person who committed no crime whatsoever, guilty becauseerth of the judge s instruction. and because the prosecutor made up a case that was juryon nullification with the judge nullification. this very well be a casecase o of jury nullification as well. ry prediction. gregg jarrett well, this hase beenen a no nonsense honest judge, a federal judge hugeon difference between this judge and machine. s foll if the jurors follow theirth duty as theyey mus there will be a conviction. all right. i noll rightt know outcome, be t juilty verdict, acquittal, a hung jury. nothing will surprise me here, but we ll see. surall right. we thank you all.co appreciate it. when we come back, thingsmes ar are so i mean, so bad for democrats. you ve got prominent democrats, even a prominent election forecaster are floatinge id the idea that biden should drop out of the rac e. our friend james carville is losing his mind. arm e go, out the latest on him and much more as hannity continuears. i try to put my arm around any event that i can. absolutely. absolutely. at new day, usa, that what we re doing. we put our arm around the veterans. i 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young people for public policy, public service or being involved in the public squaren th is quite dishearteni. and i can understand that on one level, i may not talk term and a lot of things are nos art working for them, and i feel like the two guymean ms that dol mean much to him and i am really afraid that we re goingnl to lose a generation of young people. democrats use it losing their core coalition of party, young people, african-americans, hispanic-americans -. earlier today, election forecaster nate silver echoed comments saying democrats be would have been better off e would if biden had stepped d . yesterday, the new york times even publishinyestg a piece lon highlighting biden s long list of bizarre lies, including his claim that he used to driveh an 18-wheeler, that he was the first in his family to go to collegeo . that is uncle. he was eaten by cannibals. he receiven byd appointment to e naval academy from his future senate fro. he got involved with the civil rights movement at the ageinvold of 15. e we know that s a lie. he was arrested on a front porch with aarrestt family durg desegregation at a local neighborhood and that he never earned $400,000 in a year. well, now, of course, the newco york timesursek of various points, they kind of downplay these blatant lies as hyperbole or exaggeration and ones. and those are the ones they included. that s all the tip of the iceber.e g. cause take a look at your screenwe because we re scrolling more that biden has told over the years. by the wayby the, the new york s you re very, very welcome to use our farst o more comprehensive list of joe biden lies. biden lies you ever decide to an your corrupt and abusive bias? h and by the way, you can eventhat give me attribution. youoh, and joe did partner with that friend of his that mentor of his. that s right. the former klansman, robert byrd, to stop bussing and the integration of publicf schools. remember, joey said he didn t want public school ramembs to become racial jungles. they might want to cover that, too. th mightand as biden struggles e to mount, trump is not slowingtl down at all. his vp search is allegedly in full swing. earcbiden s desperate electione year border crackdown is alreadyear wate failing as i continue to flood over the border, whic h sources nowh saying 10,000 were apprehended on thursday alons knuckle, fours the limit at which biden said procould stop processing claims. in other words, it was asylum all smoke and mirrors als, noteo real. here with reaction, harris poll chair mark pen. n, the host of tomi lahren, is fearless. there s no such thing as a fearful tomi lahren. anyway, on outkick. tomi lahren. tomi, let s get your take. it s a long list of people now. it s james carville. i won t speak for mark penn. let i ll let him speak for himself. but it s van jones. it s david axelrod. is maureen dowd, nate silver. norod,w joining the chorus?you you have been saying, do you still believe 140 days out,o you think they re going to replace biden? i absolutely believe they re going to replace biden. i believe it s going to happen either at the conventionen.is or shortly thereafter. i think the democrats are far to s oro strategic and they re far too used to winninger and they enjoyefor winning far t much to take a risk with joe biden. and i knowe bide they took a rik in 2020. but when we look back ate lo and the debates in 2020 and we look at when he was newly elected, he was in fahen her better shapa than he is now, and he was slipping then. son th h i don t think they cani possibly take that risk. i do believe they re going to swablwho belip out. tha i also think that when it comes to this first debate, we need to actually raise our expectations of joe, because us counting it as aiseui he s able to sit upright and complete his sentence is givino stepg him far too much credit because then he ll claim a victory just like he did aften her the state of the union because he was able to get through it in one piece. so we have tioo raiseo ra our expectations of biden. and we also have to put the onuse oude on the democrat a and not just the messenger, but the actual messagecrat a. d because if and when they do swap out biden, we have to be ready on the republican siden and we cannot be caught flat footed if they bring gavin newsom in anottedd he s a shiny new toy. we can t let that happen. we thas, egy of the democrat i don t think we got that.n: i think it s more likel i dot be whitmer if they have the ability to bypass vice b president. mark, can anybody really conclude anythinmark, g? smart democrats like yourself, you really don t want biden, do you? well, i think i ll i ll defer that one per se. but look, i didn t think he wasd goinidn g to run. he decided to run. thesyou know what swept the democratic primaries? these are his delegatee hes. it s his convention. the idea that he s not going i to be the nominee i think is ara fantasy. i think the party is around hiri . i don t know why james said what he said. it s not really particularly tyi oint. useful at this point. i l the only thing i ll say is this the base. mark, you know why he saidid what he said? vengeance. a little riskyha. you know why he said it was. it s a sign that it s obvious this guy is a mumbling and bumbling, stumbling, bumbling. you know, he could barely sentences together. however, i do take tommy swever, admonition really seriously. i think we ll see the return up of jacked up joe.wh whatever joe drankatev eight tak before the state of the union. maybe it was just red bull and caffeine pills. i don t know. whatever it was, that was note m the normal joe. we never saw it before and we haven t seen it since. but we will see it fornce. the. now, there are some even saying, mark, that donald jus trump might be wise to just pass on the first debate. wait till he s nominatede firs,n debate. and what would you say to thawhat wt? h oh, i d say he accepted it. he it in the lion s den. ifif i were donald trump, i would have done some betterin negotiating here, but i don t think he can back ougt without really looking cowardly. and i think biden has, you know, said he s going to meet the challenge. i thinow, saidk it s big test wt he is whether you think he s jacked up or noher yot. dt if he can get through that debate, he ll lift his campaign. and if he can theampaign ant, - that might actually be in some jeopardy. they might have actually, joe, might have done donald trump a favo mr and i say this affectionately, tommy, by insistingg that that when itm his turn to speak, that they mute his microphone becausk the think that was a mistake in the first debate in 2020. your reaction? well, i would hope with a i w lot of things foouldr that firsd debate. obviously, it s stacked against donald trump and we know that. but i thin agak donald trump han incredible opportunity in this first debate to act more presidentiaortunityirst den he s ever acted in his entire life. push everything on joe and joe pushs agenda and his failed policies, which is the democrat failed and policies and agenda. de donald trump just sits back and he lets talk himself into a corner, then donald trump will win that first debate. he just has to restrain himself, which i believeave to he do i . pull it in, act t as presidentit and dignified as possible, n and he will win against joe biden and his failed policies. he simply can t stand on thosebn . and quite frankly, he can t stand at all. all right. t ask you this. if, in fact, joe, for whatever mark penn went out, tom is convinced mar it wouldt be gavin newsom. i m not sure. i don t think it would be gavin. that s just my guess. i have no inside knowledgethat except that he told me over ove and over and over and over again when i interviewed himt do and in the debate with governor desantis, that he wouldn t do it. okayokay. so i think the most lk person, if it s notharris president harris, would be governor whitme wor whitmr. that s my take. people have floated the name jo michelle e obama. i don t think she s up to the. job myself. would be the most likelywh democrat? who would you pick if you had to choose somebody? well, again, you have to go through the history here. these delegates were nominated for this ticket. harris, i think would be the likely nominee if for some reason, any reasone hims joe biden had to remove himself, you could bet on thate as almost a certainty you think would be kamala harrisy feat. yes, absolutely. all right. is on well, bet the game s on.t i don t know what you guys want to. bet. but, you know, feel free, you know, off ai yr. when w thank you both. all right. when we come back. all right. foack ghr israeli hostages, thak god held by hamas terrorists october the seventh. they were rescued duringai what was a daring raid this week. and we have the video of it. but your vic we ho e is making sure to appease her far left base rather than praising those involved in the heroic raid. ha 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ulta.com. order right now when you can t watch. listen. get latest news, business and news headlines on sirius xm. anytime, anywhere. fox news radio on sirius xm america is listening this. arin past weekend during a daring raid as israel rescued hostages taken during the october seven terrorist attack. the idf just released video of this very dangerousy da operation. take a look at thisngerous. we had recorded a catch phrase that said and they indeed said listening to the in me. yes, yes, yes, yes. a very courageous, serious, but complex military operation. but over there in fake news, cnn one banner called the, quote, a hostage release. no, that would be a rescue. keep in mind, that is a networka that s supposed to hosto the upcoming presidential debate. host the fake jake tapper and dana bash really be objective or trusted? no, they re liberal talkir show hosts. they re not journalists, as they claim to be. alsoeral ot, vice president harris. oh, she mourned the palestinians, quote, tragicallyt ha killed duringn an the raid and call for an end to the war. playino thg, of course, to her extremist left-wing base which showed in full force thishi weekend in front of the white house and promptlyin fro started vandalizing monuments and lafayette square, reportedlyyette sq at police ant service and demanding the elimination of the state of israel. now, secret service agents, you know were told to kill themselves and there was a lot of f the police s release fromof some of these radicals. and by way, they were forced fro to retreat from the insane mob. anyway, herethe in reaction. r former senior aide to presidentr trump stephe sn miller. and from the lawfare project,pr brooke goldsteinoject is us. you know, the people that aresi responsible fobler the murder of 1200, brooke, the people that took all of these israelisi and americans hostage and israel bravely is risking lives to go saved is the liveseh of people. i argue that every death of every palestinian that blood is on the hand is of hamas, that that started this war, esea that killed these israelis. the worst terror attack in their history. and it s miraculous that they got thesn histor mire four host. and that would be called a rescue, not a release. your reaction? well, sean it s great to beo be here with you again tonight. and i want to say that you re ab are absolutely correct. under the laws of armed conflict , it is hamas, a terrorist group that is responsible for the death of civilians, both israeli civilians and palestiniaans bothaelin civ. but you have to ask yourself, knowing what is happeningwhat in this war right now, at what point under the laws of armer td conflict do you lose your civilian status? t wa because let us not forget that it wa00s over 2000 and gaza civilians that broke into israel on october the seventh. it was the gazan civilians along with hamas that tortured that that murdered that burned israeli civilian babies alive. it was gazan civilians that then took israeli civilianit gars as hosts that kept them, tortured them were paid by hamas to keep them, raise them as . at what point do you lose your civilian status, being a civilian is not an affirmative defense to murder civilians or r do murder other civilians. and you best be sureothers c tho matter what you call yourself, if you kidnap and murder israeli civilians, the idf will rightly hols thd accountabt and, you know, it s sort of like that that coastal elitist, you know, hollywood leftists, george clooney and his wife literally wanting bg bibi netanyahu to be brought up on war crimes as he s literally trying to defend his own country from radical islamic terrorists radic. al you know how people lack that moral clarity. stephen miller i will nevestepha for the life of me understanndd israel has the right to self-determination to defend their country from a group that has in their charter a call israel s destruction that would have been 40,0000 ded dead americans in a day based on their populationn. and then you have, you know, jack actors likegoing george clooney and his wife going after the prime prime mint for trying to preserve their country. really? well, you knowally, is your morl compass, mr. clooney. although mr. i m being a bito too polite. here isn there isn t one, sean. there s no moral compasss no moe the radical left in this country has decided that it s on the side of hamas. it s as simple as that. hamas is a genocidal terroristte organizationrror. one of the most evil, vile, repugnant, repulsive organizations alive today, or any point in the history of humanity. they, as has been discussed, they , they butcher, wome murder, they tortur coue t enslave women and children, barbarians. but joe biden, us democrat parte y is now playing fore pr the pro hamas vote in this this country. they re playing for whatever sliver of voters in this country they thinkslivft is sympathetic to hamas. now, that s morally to hs morall. but i would also sayi wo it s politically idiotichamas because for every pro-hamas site in this country thi, theres 20 voters, 30 voters who are as horrified and, as appalled te by the atrocities of hamas i e are on this panel tonight. i believe joe biden will pay a dearbeliev pay price for cozyp to that segment of thete us electorate. e this is one of the saddest moments in us histor u.sy that n did he abdicate america s rolee on the world stage as theus leader of the cause of libertyan and freedod freem but then he ao surrendered in the war against islamic terrorism by saying, we re not going to help israel defend against those people that attacked them on october 7th. you know, just just the perfect to raise money with george clooney and his wife. thanoney a his wifk you both.p t appreciate it. coming up, donald trump,he biy in thea, thell state of virginia, the commonwealth, well, the blue statecommon red in nov. we ll ask governor glenn youngkin. and later, biden hosted a juneteenth event at the white house 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work for you. call now and order ellipse. all right this is huge. according to the latest fox poll in the commonwealth of virginia. donald trump.n, joe biden. this is a second poll in a row a tied at 48%. o remember, this is the place joe biden won by ten points in 2020. the same poll shows trump winning 25% of black voters in the commonwealth of virginia right now.n repu can republicans considerbl virginia in playrginia come novb joining us with moreer, virginia governor glennh youngkin.t gahe governor, listen, your victory reallyer shocked the world man in many ways because a lot of people, like myself include d ,thought that virginia had gone solidly blue, that northern virginia, thata h- too many d.c. employees that were going to vote for the bureaucracrey. and it became that much more difficult of a state to win. to wiis this state in play forf donald trump? sean? it is i believe it is. and that s exactly what the polls are showing us. just like georgia and pennsylvania and wisconsin. michigan, nevada and arizona, those battlegrounda an states ae seeing the exact same kind of statement that virginians are make. and they want a strong america. they want an america that ha was economic strength, not the biden generated economy. no unleashed inflation. they want an america that has national security, not the indecisive, weak america that joe biden has created. they want an america that has a secure border, not one that has terrorist and illegal immigrants and fentanyl flowing over every day. i i mean, we see it in virginia. we literally have five virginians dying on average from fentanyl overdose. and we hadeinians d i two illegl immigrants crash the gates at quantico in a box truck recently. and they want an america that has energy . we are so tired. i can hear it every single day of being told that you have to buy. and even if you live e b in california, but not in virginia anymore because we declared our independenc ivirgir that in fact you and you have, 0 to pay 20, 30, 40% more for a gallon of gas because of the biden failed energy policy. they want trump back in the amei white house because he built a strong america. and that sca exactly what we ve seen in virginia over the course of the last couple of years , commonsense conservative policy works. we ve unleashed a riunleashep ey in virginia, and i think they want to see it on a national level. yean thins, virginia is in play.in we got five months of hard work . but i m telling you, when they put that when they put the records of president trump againss oft president bidi i believe that virginians and american ts are going to fid themselves pulling the lever for president trump. so when i was with presidentr trump last week and i did an asterview with himeseekend, youe came up and he asked me ifke i spoke to you off, and i said, well, occasionally you we you k, we have we have spoken. and you come on the show. , tell and he said, when you talk to him, tell him i m going to give him a call goito g. i want to thoughts on virginia. so i would say expect the callmt from president trump. i don t know. i m just a mere messenger. right. you know, what about northern virginia? because that alwayr.s scares me, because there are so many dark bureaucrats that live in the commonwealth of, virginia, that work in d.c. and how big ah percentage of the vote is that going to end up being for the commonwealthating the ? well, in order to win virginia like we did in 2021,e you have to lose northern virginia less badly. and what we did, of course, was wen the hispanic vote, we won the asian vote, we won oen the independendent vt vote. people are ready for change. and in 2021, they were readywe to see parents put back at the head of the table, controlof of control of their children s lives. they were tire t children sd oft taking all of their hard earned money and putting it in government cofferrned mones,g in their pocket. they wanted a chance to build their livethey wands the way thd to build them and not being told what to do all the timeo . mandated masks and oh, by the way, mandate what kind of ca or. you drive. this is virginia. and of course, i think thithisv is america. and therefore, the plan to win virginiathan t is, of course, to lose northern virginia. less bad, but to get over 40% nt of the vote and then knock it out in the rest of the state. di and that s exactly what we did in 2021. and when you looand when youk am trump s strength across virginia, that s exactly what he ca ginia thn. let me ask you a finalr fi question. if donald trump annald i knowou your name hasn t been out there prominently, but if donald trump called not you, asked you toun run with him, what would you say,m governor? well, well, first, i would be honored and humblede . he rep tell him that there is a ton of talent in the republican party today, everyw and i ve seen them everywhere. and it s my job to finismyh winv my finish my time as governor and help him win virginia. irwhat tell you what.ha we ve got to make sure weve t get donald trump back in the white house because donat withstand another four years of joe biden. is that a hard no, sean,r hear that that is that is a a realistic view of the fact that there s so much talentha that i think he can have a great choice and fin d lots of people i think i can ask this would be honored but indert understand. all righand. t governor, alwayswhen great to have you on the program. when we come back, the white w u house hold the juneteenth event tonight. they didn t go well for joe. straight aheadll o, the thinking is starting the writing clock. usa today, the wall street journal and entertainment weekly hailed the black writers on june 21st. one of the biggest films of the summer arrived the many nice little i like you guys. you re in a nice. how many staff ladies did you win? they said seven. felt like one. he keeps writing. he s going to die one way or another. you re crazy. we are on desire, but characters on this is war war. the black writers meeting are only in theaters june 21st. tickets are on sale now. if you re about to replace your roof stock, there s this solution about 80% less expensive. nine out of ten roofs can be saved by roof max, guaranteed to extend the life of your current roof by 5 to 15 years at a fraction of the cost of a new roof. roof. max is deep, penetrating power ,restores flexibility and water protection. nobody wants to replace their roof restore it instead with roof max for percent less. call now for a free roof inspection, a heart attack. do they have life insurance? no, but we have life insurance, john. i m trying to find something we can afford. fortunately, in only a few minutes, selectquote found john a $500,000 policy for only $29 a month. and his wife and a $500,000 policy for only $21 a month. go to select qualcomm now and get the insurance your family needs at a price you can afford. select we shop, you save home where routine meets 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softener for gentle, dependable relief from constipation. it s so gentle. doctors even recommend it during pregnancy and after surgery, goalies increases water in the stool, making it softer so it s easier to go. no harsh laxatives, cramping or straining. kohli repair has the beltway lawmakers have announced bipartisan legislation from the breaking news the country to the global events shaping our world. we ll bring you there and have a live report, special report with britt baer weeknights on fox news channel america is watching. earlier tonight, biden hosted a juneteenth celebratio sean:n at the whiti house and big surprise, it didn t go well. throughout the event biden stood awkwardly still, while other attendees were singin werg and dancing before later clapping along completely out of rhythbeforem with everyoe around him. and when he did speak, it only got worse. he d g a look. she not lost. she knows. so long as i that night. r be our freedom can never be secured. these black soldiers were a link in the distinguished line of patriots, enslaved and free, who risked their live s in every war. since the founding. the founding of our ideals. we don t know fully what american soil is. mumbling, bumbling, stumbling, fumblinging, and incoherent. n now, in fairness, this was around 9 p.m. eastern, which is well past joey s bedtime. i m sure bedtime he s going to g well tonight after that vigorous showing. plea s all the time we have left this evening. please set your dvr so you never, ever, eveyourr ever h an episode of hannity. in the meantime, let not and your hearts be troubled. why? greg gutfeld standing by to put a smilutfelde on your face. have a great nigh