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Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20151122:01:16:00

underneath her bed and doused those with gasoline in addition to dousing her body. >> i spoke with the florence county coroner and discussed these items. he indicated to me that he did not remember telling tom morgan any of these facts. >> reporter: and that's about the point pat's theorys took a turn toward something way out there, something no one else had even imagined, some sort of sexual dysfunction between tom and his sister. >> in the one telephone conversation i had with the florence county detective, he informed me that after jennifer morgan was murdered, there was an unknown milky white substance in her vagina. >> reporter: what set it off was that phrase. pat recalled that the florence county investigator, kenny boone, told him that an unidentified substance may have been found in jennifer's body. >> was this milky white substance placed there as a result of an assault, including oral sex? >> reporter: what could that substance have been? well, how about ice cream?

Tom-morgan , Reporter , Items , Florence-county , Underneath , Body , Bed , Gasoline , Coroner , Facts , Addition , Something

Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111224:22:16:00

also, there was the way tom talked about the weather on the day of the murder. >> if i remember, this was almost the identical weather that it was. >> reporter: as if he was right there when it happened. >> he does not use the wording that this was the weather in charlotte or this was the weather in michigan or that he was told this was the weather like that day. >> reporter: and remember that watch police found in jennifer's hand after the fire and the bracelet and ring tom said his father found at the grave? tom suggested those were left by his suspect, chris woodson. but pat came to a different conclusion. it's your suspicion tom is -- >> my suspicion is that it's connected that, this staged event at the murder scene is -- the ring is possibly staged. >> did you ever ask tom about that? >> no. >> reporter: and there was pat's suspicion that tom knew too much about the murder if he wasn't around to witness it. >> they took all the sweaters

Way , Murder , Reporter , Weather , Wording , Tom-morgan , Jennifer-morton , Fire , Police , Grave , Tom , Ring

Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111224:22:26:00

suspicion, avoiding direct accusations, but only an idiot would miss the obvious message. but, we wondered, was any of it built on actual evidence? how had pat come to the conclusion based on this interview that tom could be a sociopath? why did he suspect that, behind tom's very public crusade for justice, lurked a killer? well, pat told us he taken some special training in criminal psychology that has enabled him to detect possible guilt based on what people say and how they say it. >> how long were you at this reed institute. >> well, it's a week long -- i think it's a week long training for the first class. and then the second the advanced class is like a two-day seminar. >> then what? does a diploma or something at the end of it? >> a certificate.

Evidence , Message , Suspicion , Accusations , Idiot , Justice , Tom-s , Conclusion , Interview , Killer , Sociopath , Crusade

Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111224:22:04:00

because, says pat, of something he saw in tom's fictional movie script. >> and all of a sudden in the middle of the script i get to the murder scene and the person who he told me in real life that he based the script on, this fraternity brother, he goes to the trailer and when he gets there there's a man already there and he listens from underneath the window and the man leaves. this makes him jealous. he goes in and he kills her. well, the man that's there is tom morgan. >> in the script that he sent you. >> yes. when i read that, it was like somebody slugged me in the chest. i was just like this isn't right. it just didn't make sense. there's no reason to put yourself at a murder scene of an unsolved homicide. >> pat instantly thought back to his police training, in part, to a course in criminal psychology he'd once attended. >> the narcissistic sociopath will find a way of placing themselves near the crime scene of the victim. and that's exactly what he does in his script. he places himself at the crime scene. >> and emotionally what does that do to you? >> it's not a good feeling in

Something , Wasn-ta-nonfiction-movie , Script , Person , All , Life , Tom-s , Video , Fraternity-brother , Murder-scene , Middle , Sudden

Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111224:22:19:00

and setting it on fire. all these years, pat suggested, jennifer's whole family may have been involved in a massive cover-up. the documentary ended with what pat intended as the climactic interview. >> i'm on your side, but there's people out there that have been telling me stuff. >> reporter: here tom has no idea that a microphone and two cameras are placed in the room. pat is moving in for the kill. for what he hopes will be tom's confession. >> tom, i know you're at your sister's accident, jen's accident. >> no, i wasn't. >> tom i know you were. >> i have told me things for two years, that put me at your sister's accident. >> i love my sister.

Jennifer-morton , Point-pats-theorys , Family , Documentary , Interview , Cover-up , On-fire , Pat , Tom-morgan , Reporter , Idea , Tom-s

Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111224:22:07:00

friend's house in charlotte. i remember his exact words. just do me a favor, don't come home tonight. >> to tom t showed how deeply shocked his dad was by jennifer's death. to pat, tom's story about the way he was told took on a different meaning. >> you see, that is what is shocking to him, what his dad said. don't come down tonight. what should are been the shocking moment, he said, my sister is dead. >> i find myself out here, just come out by myself and start talking. >> other worrisome discrepancies.

Jennifer-morton , Point-pats-theorys , Death , Tom-s , Dad , Charlotte , House , Story , Words , Dont-come-home-tonight , Favor , Tom-t

Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111224:22:27:00

>> reporter: but if pat wasn't a exactly trained psychologist, he was and is an experienced policeman. he's been on the force for 18 years. so what about that milky white substance he says the sheriff told him was found in jennifer's body, which was at the heart of pat's suggestion that jennifer's death could have been caused by some inappropriate sexual event involving tom? >> how does he know? by coincidence, he writes this script where he's bringing ice cream to the murder scene. and lo and behold, the detective has this milky white substance in the vagina. >> reporter: but aren't you taking two and two and coming up with five? >> no, i don't think so. >> reporter: he's fictionally writing about him being there with ice cream. >> and you think it's a coincidence that he shows up in his script that he places himself at the murder scene minutes before his sister's murder and he's bringing a substance that after fire could be melted down and be a milky white substance? do you think that's a coincidence? i don't. >> reporter: why would it be white?

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Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111224:22:42:00

so when we lose that for people to say, you know, sorry for your loss, you have to let it go. maybe it's harder for us to let it go. maybe it's harder for me. but it's not just for me. it's for my parents. it's for our family. we need closure. we want closure. >> listen to what he says and also -- >> reporter: we watched "bold as a lion" together, with frequent stops when tom objected to pat's allegations. >> the interesting -- interesting to that -- >> those apparent contradictions for example, about where he was when his sister was killed. >> yeah, i went back. i was going to fly back out of charlotte back to michigan. >> stop right there. i can remember having this conversation and thinking to myself, man, why did i say that? why didn't i just tell him? why didn't i just tell him? >> clear it up. >> let me just clear this up. and i would have said, pat,

People , Parents , Us , Loss , Tom-morgan , Family , Bold-asa-lion , Together , Point-pats-theorys , Sister , Charlotte , Michigan

Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111224:22:46:00

point, he has slandered our family's name. >> he must have had a motivation to do that. >> all i can do is go back to the day that he told me when i said that he wasn't gonna make the film that i'd be sorry. >> reporter: tom's mother says she could scarcely believe pat moug could imply such an awful lie about her family. >> i am totally a mother hen, i will fight tooth and nail, i will go to the wall for this. there is no way anyone will come down and ruin my son's reputation without an awful lot of hardcore facts. and i don't think they can give me one. >> you're pretty angry about this. >> angry that my son will be hurt, yeah. >> reporter: and angry, said tom's dad, that police would consider his son a suspect based on what jim morgan claimed were pat's lies. what are you worried about now? i worry about tom. law enforcement can really turn the screws down if they want to.

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Detailed text transcripts for TV channel - MSNBC - 20111224:22:13:00

where did you want to start? >> reporter: in the summer of 2005, tom morgan's movie about the killing of his sister showed up here and there in the indie film festivals. an apparent success. all the while, though tom was not aware of it, the man who he once pegged to make the movie was working against him. >> i believe one police officer in one state should work with other police officers to take a murderer off the street and that's just how i am. i'm not going to go away. >> reporter: now it looked as though pat moug's policeman passion paid off. tom morgan, the brother who had been pestering investigators for years about his sister's murder was hauled in for questioning and now seemed to be a suspect himself. pat waited for word of an arrest and waited. >> right now, if he was in our

Tom-morgan , Sister , Reporter , Killing , Movie , Indie-film-festivals , 2005 , Wasn-ta-nonfiction-movie , It , Police-officer , State , Success