solidify women where they are which is not in his favor. saying about this recording, this was locker room bander and a private conversation that took place many years ago. bill clinton said far worse to me on the golf course. not even close. i apologize if anyone was offended. that will do it for this hour. next we will pick up continuing coverage of hurricane matthew. welcome to our continuing breaking coverage of hurricane matthew. the sterm up the southeast coast after leaving severe damage across the caribbean. there are two confirmed deaths in florida. winds are at 110 miles per hour. as strong as you get for a category two storm. moving to the north and we will bring you over here and this is a brand-new path. the areas around savannah. if you are in the brunswick area or charleston to georgetown, you are staring at this saying this is going to be a close call. it s not a major hurricane, but even a category two with a wind of 90 to 110 miles per hour. that s what we saw during the day. the storms on the track northward by 2:00 a.m. at the closest point from savannah, georgia. we don t know if they will go through the western eyewall. if it does, you will have significant power outages and problems in the area. we will get the storm surging into the area and that will be bad in the bruniswick area. it will be worse this afternoon into this evening all the way through the coastline of georgia and through there into south carolina. if we had to pick a location with the best chance of getting landfall and maybe right in the area of charleston and the storm goes off the coastline of north carolina and saturday night, the outer banks is mostly okay, but heavy rain. i want to bring you to the other computer. the big issue is the potential for the storm surge. this happened and almost over with, but this is the area of greatest concern from hilton head to savannah down to brunswick. they could be close to ten feet of storm surge that will be life-threatening over six to 12 hours. thank you very much. while there is plenty of good news and not in the clear and for more we turn to reporters on the ground. in jacksonville as well as savannah, go ahead. what are you seeing? hey there and good afternoon. steady rain all afternoon and pounding the area in the downtown area. we have seen storm surge only about two or three feet. more serious to the east at jacksonville beach. as we have been seeing over the last few hours, a lot of storm surge and pounding the coastline over there as well as the saint august seen area. tens of thousands of people without power and the mayor of jacksonville had evacuated nearly half a million people in this city. thankfully they said since the storm tracked east, they tamped down expectations and were able to say they were expecting less wind and said they went as planned. we have been seeing steady rain and trees we see toppled at the debris. people are told to hunker down for the next few hours. the story today in the area from jacksonville beach is storm surge. we are seeing the heavy rain pounding the city. unlike anything the city has seen in a while. thank you. in georgia, go ahead. i can you that the rain just is increasing in intensity. just as you heard from florida, we have similar conditions here. steady rain and it comes in these bands and sideways. it s heavy at times and then it abates and it s heavy gain. this is the savannah river and part of what people worry about. when the storm is at high tigde all of this water will surge up and get the high tide and heavy rain and that makes for a perfect storm that will flood into the downtown area of savannah. he has always told the first responders to leave the area. they told people if they find themselves shelter and call 911, evacuations with the wind speeds and the storm surge. and some folks decided not to listen to the evacuation order and that s behind this now. my biggest sees that we can t be clear appears to be leading out. we need to get in and make sure people are getting out. it s the most important thing and we can rebuild damage in homes as painful as that will be, but lives are number one. what day of the week do you think it will bring back normalcy to your community? i know residents that evacuated will be anxious to get back in. with public safety being the pop concern, we will pursue tomorrow with the safety issues and get people back in their home. huge part of who we are. we want to make sure visitors are comfortable and we have a lot of work ahead of us and our primary concern is the safety of the people who are here and making sure it s safe for people to have a return. we have turned off the water system and we have a lot of work to do and understanding that will have a lot better idea. what are people drinking in the water is off? and people know what the checklist is. bottled water was flying out of the stores and if they have gas and they can boil water and if they chose to stay, they can do that. we will be there to help. and finish your thought and time for you. thanks for spending time with us. we will continue to have updates on the progress throughout this hour a& politic and if you the potential bombshell that dropped on donald trump s head. it is related to him and something he said in his own words. you want to hear it for yourself. a battle ground map with both preparing for the debate. all eyes on that sunday debate. donald trump said it s his last chance to hold on to very skeptical republicans in washington. that story is straight ahead. i m terrible at golf. he is. but i d like to keep being terrible at golf for as long as i can. new patented ensure enlive has hmb plus 20 grams of protein to help rebuild muscle. for the strength and energy to do what you love. new ensure enlive. direction. two shy of 270. if you fill in the states that are likely orleaning in the red, that brings trump to about 190 that means he would have to sweep every other toss upstate to win. that s not a hospitable environment for the path. if he lost any of the state, clinton wins. there is no room for error for team trump as he takes the debate stage. that looks like it got a lot more perilous after the bombshell audio on trump. we will show you and play it for you straight ahead. blan bill clinton has said far worse to me on the golf course. not even close. i apologize if anyone was offended. this is horrific. wie cannot allow this man to become president. i will bring in our panel with former white house director. vice president from the new york times. sarah, your thoughts. i don t know what to say beyond who knew furniture shopping was such a romantic gesture. there is no defending it. it is horrific. daniela. she is right. it s horrific and you department even play which is i think is the worst part. he talks about assaulting people which is okay because he s famous. wbr-id= wbr13124 /> it is not surprising given everything we know about donald trump. we will repeat the warnings the other things he said about women and other people. is this a person you want to sit in the oval office and be a role model forever your children and your family? it boggles my mind that people are undecided about this. i will ask you as part of the journalistic and political questions, does this do the things we just said by it criticized by a republican and analyst, do they reveal something else? about women or anyone else. it s just a total breech of the usual wbr-id= wbr14233 /> encasement of politics. even with donald trump we haven t earned anything like this in the rally or speech. would you want this guy in a room with your daughter or sending someone into the white house to work for president? i want to ask you. this is accurate that we haven t seen this audio about a candidate, but there are trump supporters and historians argue that there are other presidents, nixon and lbj come to mind who had recording devices in the white house who had very objectionable things on tape said about different groups of people and about women and about jews and about african-americans. sure. a range of horrors. i don t know how much politically that would help donald trump because lbj said a democrat said terrible things. i don t know who is defending that. what would you say to the argument and statement i said earlier? he said look, you take anyone s private locker room bander, you can find something objectionable. that may be true, but it doesn t make the fact that he said these things okay. of course timing is everything in politics. you are approaching the next debate. this is something a voter is going to ask him about and you have to address it on sunday night. the timing of this could not be worse for donald trump. the bigger issue here is donald trump said many things in the campaign that offended people. in that regard this is not new and i don t know that there is a wide group of voters that ultimately changes their views because of it. they suggested that. i do think that the challenge for that group of undecided voters and those people that he needs to move the hillary supporters and he needs to move off of her candidacy on to his, this becomes more of a window into the soul than any one offensive comment. i think it is just another problematic thing and he is now on defense again one more day that he needs to be talking about hillary clinton s e-mail problems or the clinton foundation challenges and where the world stands from a foreign policy perspective and her role in this. we are talking about something that is not befitting of a presidential campaign. or of anything. he has to change minds. he can t become president if he doesn t change minds. it is impossible that this will push him in the direction of winning more votes and not less. that s exactly right. his challenge may not move supporters off of him. i m sure it won t, but he doesn t have enough supporters to win the presidency. he needs to do everything he can to move independents and people who are not decided to him. these comments are not going to help and i m very curious to see how this will come into play during the debate on sunday. you mentioned that conservative reaction and potential supporters. a long time critic of trump with him over the red state conference and their dealings has a direct appeal with insighting the remarks that he never felt he asked for forgiveness on anything. he claims he never needed to ask for giveness for knowingly trying to sleep with a married woman. that s a part of this that can you get lost amid the objectionable language and the story line here. that s him seeming to brag or take a positive association from the story which is that he was pursuing this woman he viewed to be married. how would you approach that? evangelical camp is split. with folks like eric erickson who has been strong for most of the campaign. not all of it, but he is strong against trump because of the way he conducted himself. there are others that tell all of this believing that hillary clinton is so bad for america that even an imperfect donald trump means the potential for a supreme court and the conservative philosophy and they are willing to take that risk. both sides are dug in. it s going to be interesting to see if some of the evangelicals come off that. i don t think they will. what donald trump needed to do and needs to do after this assuming it s true is to come out and more forcefully apologize and say look, this is unbecoming of a president. you cannot talk about people like this. i think that would help him with a lot of people who understand that everyone has things in their past they are not proud of and things they said they are not proud of. he is basically apologizing for this, although i think it needs to be stronger. it may dove tail with what daniela is saying about the way that the culture deals with language about women and hostility towards women for being women. when barack obama was in jeremiah wright s church, days of demands and hoe had to give an entire speech about it. here you have a brief apology from donald trump and are these comments that merit a deeper reckoning from a candidate? thank you all for being with me. we will talk about the shut down and pitfalls for both candidates and as we have had the latest coverage from the ground in florida and georgia tracking matthew. stay with us. looking sharp, len. who s the lucky lady? i m going to the bank, to discuss a mortgage. ugh, see, you need a loan, you put on a suit, you go crawling to the bank. this is how i dress to get a mortgage. i just go to lenngtree. i calculate how much he i can afford. i get multiple offers to compare side by side. and the best part is. the nks come crawling to me. everything you need to get a better mortgage. clothing optional. lendingtre when banksompete, you win. ok! .awkward i ve got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn t pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options. then i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. 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[ male announcer ] join the millions of people who have already enrolled in the onlmedicare supplemt insurance pls endorsed by aarp, an organization seing the needs of people 50 and over for generations. remember, all medicare supplement insurance plans help cover what medicare doesn t pay. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. call now to request your free decision guide. and learn more about the kis of plans that will be here for you now - and down the road. i have a lifetime of experiee. so i know how important that is. of the matchup and tune in for full coverage in the debate and our favorite anxious onnors you might recognize will be in full regallia gearing up for the debate. we will have an update up the coast so stay with us. because, healthier doesn t happen all by itself. it needs to be earned every day. ing wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by millions of others. as a health services and innovation company optum powers modern healthcarey connecting every part of it. so wlehe world kee archg for healier wee here to make healthier happen. i spent many years as a nuclear missile launch officer. if the president gave the order we had to launch the missiles, that would be it. i spent many years as a nuclear missile launch officer. i wbr id= wbr20925 /> prayed that callave the order would never come.h the missiles, [ radio chatter ] self control may be all that keeps /b> these missiles from firing. [ sirens blearing ] i wod bomb the [ beepout of them. i wbr-id= wbr21230 /> want to be unpredictable. i love war. the thought donald trump with nuclear weapons scares me to death. it should scareveryone. i m hillary inton and i approve this messa. damage in different jurisdictions. one of many partials giving briefings as people take them and i m going to turn to miami as we head to the national hurricane center. today they came up along the east coast and the sensor has been offshore about it looks like it the pass to savannah and charleston. it likes like savannah is at great risk. category four is very rare and it seems to be moving at its own pace. and it might be up the coast. it has been moving at 10 miles per hour and that s close to normal. this is not unusual. the good news and bad news when it s moving slowly with more time to prepare, it lingers longer. author for the storm surge and that s a big concern this time. thank you very much. we will turn now to jacob in jacksonville, florida. all day long, it has been raining consistently and raining enough that they are standing with the water like this one are popping up around the city. this by far is not the most dangerous thing around the storm. we saw the massive storm surge about 23 miles from here. and up and down the coast and up and down the middle, that s creating dangerous conditions for low-lying areas. as windy as it has been. and far away from the coast and they have to look for not only rain and wind, but the beach and the river. thank you very much. now we turn by phone to savannah looks like the place where the hurricanes can come closest and what is your view and how is it going? we had great results for people who left town. we had 75% participation and we feel good with the numbers and we are trying to make sure about the ones that are here understand we need to hunker down and get a grip and find the safest place with you can. we stopped all emergency calls because of the weather and we will wait until the storm passes between the times that are 6:00 in the morning. we have the surge based on like you were talking earlier. we are concerned because of that. that s on the earlier side and we are not sure about the surge. they moved them out of the lower areas and hopefully we will be able to take care of them tonight. you are advising them to hit hardest around 6:00 in the morning on saturday? we are looking at more of the 2:00 time. that s the same time our eyes are working in the same time period. the roughest will be from 2:00 to 4:00 and tropical stuff from 10:00 to 6:00. that s what we are an tis waiting. we have seen a lot of coordination from the local and state and federal and we saw marco rubio teaking and are you getting everything you need from the state and local authorities at this time? i have never seen a group of people cork from the emergency homeland security. every one worked to make it as easy as possible. it s something to be proud of if you are a sides. you have people in places that can do that job. it has been great. a lot of resolve. that s good to hear. thanks for joining us on a busy day. glad to be here sir. thank you for your time. we will continue to update throughout the evening and income up back to 2016 with interesting political developments. stay tuned. he has a sharp wit, a nng smile, we have been following this for a while. they publicly blamed russia for the election-related hackings that occurred here in the united states. they are confident russia is behind the hacks that include breeches from the democratic campaign committee. they said the steps and disclosures intended to interfere with the u.s. election process and we believe based on the scope and sensitivity of the efforts that only russia s senior most officials could have authorized the activities. they believe the system is essentially to decentralize them and suffer from disruptions in hacking that could affect the election in november. they came at about the same time that president obama stopped by his holding place in downtown chicago to cakaftan early vote. we ll be right back with how the presidential candidates are and may not be preparing for the crucial second debate this weekend. or put them on a rack. but the specialists at ford like to show off their strengths: 13 name brands. all backed by our low price tire guarantee. yeah, we re strong when it comes to tires. right now during the big tire event, get a $140 rebate by mail on four select tires. i had a problem with the mike. we had a guy oscillating my mike. i went there a little bit before and i said the mike is so great. unfortunately when i went to talk, they turned the mike up and down and you saw it. everybody in the room saw it. we had a real problem. he is still talking about the mike from the last debate. donald trump there last night and that is new sound in case it sounds like old sound suggesting it was sabotaged by microphone oscillation. just purr porting what he said. the practice may not be going to play. the story out today saying trump continues to push back against the notion of traditional preparation. trump resisted suggestions from advisers to practice exhaustively for the skds debate. he flat out refused to participate in mock sessions saying play acting was annoying. on the stakes for the trump campaign on sunday night are massive right now. there are republicans who are basically signaling they are looking at an off-ramp. the battleground map tilting towards clinton and so are the national and state polls and the new york times reported just this week that gop operatives telegraphing, quote, should mr. trump falter badly, republican congressional candidates may take it as a cue to flee openly from their nominee. let s bring back our panel, daniella fairman and nick confesso confessore. sarah, there are plenty of republicans who say, that s the new york times grabbing an anonymous quote here or there and trying to spin it into a bigger story. no offense, nick. you don t have to rebut that if you don t want that. and they would say, my point, about any newspaper that has a couple of quotes. is this a media narrative, or in your view as a republican in touch with a lot of people, is this a real problem for trump? i think it has a real potential to be a problem for trump. and look, the proof will be in the pudding. look, we ll certainly know how donald trump does after sunday night anwe ll see within a week to ten days after the second debate if republicans do, in fact, start running i m a check on hillary clinton, as if the presidential race is a foregone conclusion. but i think these conversations are happening. i don t think this is just the media narrative. it s a tricky situation for republicans. because, you know, by saying or telegraphing this, you think that the republican candidate isn t going to win, it can have a dampening effect on turnout, it can have a lot of factors that can be negative on one s candidacy. it s demoralizing. yeah, it can be it s not just an easy slam dunk, it can cause more damage than just, you know, running the i m a check and balance on the democratic president. no, it s a message that admits a problem, nick, put aside your msn credentials, you mainstream media establishment reporter, there s someone else that might agree with this narrative. and we ll put up on the screen in the four-way race, just since september. so just looking at the arc here, as we re now in the home stretch of october, hillary clinton, overall, up four. donald trump, up one in what he had before. and gary johnson losing seven. so in whatever sort of mood there is, the mood is third party candidates waffling. that s not necessarily good, if hillary seems to be picking up some of what they had. look, two things are happening. one is the block of voters who are considering johnson and stein, right, are now moving in some large degree towards hillary clinton, and not trump. so, yeah, it s typical to see third party candidates waver and lose steam at the very end. it is happening, it is happening to hillary clinton s benefit. second of all, you can see in polling that a lot of senate republicans are having trouble separating from donald trump. not all of them, not bob portman, you know, but most of them are finding that he drags them down. that as he suffers, trump suffers, the senate candidate suffers, and we even had a house strategist in that story, saying that even house candidates are suffering. so the top of the ticket does matter. it can drag the whole thing down. i think that goes to the question if donald trump is any good at outreach. he has had a real sort of proud attitude about any aspects of the general election, when we re accustomed to nominees trying to do bridge building. i m a little reminded of when jay-z said either love me or leave me alone. i think that s how a lot of people feel. but you can t build a 50% coalition with the feeling that people should either be in your corner or go away. and he has to have that kind of scorn for people who don t want to get behind him. absolutely. for the past year and a half, donald trump has been saying, i m the best, i am tremendous, i have the best words and the best brain. and nobody is going to tell me how to win a general election. and what worked in the primary is obviously going to work now. so i m not surprised that the new york times said he s not doing debate prep. and i wouldn t be surprised if he does poorly again on sunday, that he still rebuffs and says, you know, a mike was broken, or something else happened, and not listen to the people around him. daniella, it was not broken, fact check! it was not broken, the mike was oscillating. that s all he said. be fair. sorry, it was oscillating. it was oscillating, my bad. i don t have the best words. i mean, sunday night is a big night for him and donald trump needs to do two three things, regardless of whether he s prepping or not. he needs to not miss opportunities. he needs to be talking about hillary clinton want hillary clinton s e-mail scandal, about the way the clinton foundation has conducted its affairs, and about her performance on the world stage. he missed opportunities in that first debate. he cannot do that again. second, he needs to have strong answers on policy questions. people understand he is not a policy wonk, and to some degree, they like that about him. but he s got to have a strong, solid answers. and third, how does he interact with these voters? the human dynamic, i think, is going to be a big part of the discussion on monday, for both of these candidates. and he s going to have to do well in that regard. because you re eye to eye with real people. nick? look, prep is not just about having facts and figures at your fingertips in a debate. it s not being prepared for lines of attack and how to avoid walking into traps, how to control the tempo of the debate and talking about things you want to talk about. what happened to him last week was at almost every stage for the last two-thirds of the debate or more, he was talking about things that hillary clinton wanted to talk about. exactly. it was conducted on her internship terms. if you don t prep, it will happen to him again and she will win the next debate. and that s what makes a town hall a little trickier. because these are voters you re talking to. you can t talk down to them, you can t interrupt them. if you don t like their question, you really can t blow them off. these are the people you re trying to convince to vote for you. that raises the final question, daniella, do you think he will interrupt any voters to say wrong ? i wouldn t be surprised if it happened. i would like to think that he would not do that, that he would understand that that would be really, really bad to tell a voter that their question or their premise is wrong. well, we will find out. that s why we will be watching. sarah, daniella, nick, thanks for joining ours panel here. i m ari melber. we ll have more on 2016 and on hurricane matthew, so keep it locked right here on msnbc.
the dad said it was all worth it because he built the coaster to spend quality time with his son. this, after, after an overseas deployment as a navy pilot. eric: look at how much fun he is having. arthel: it s a little airplane he s flying, like his dad. that doesn t that doesn t for us. thank you for joining us. up next, the fox report. the head of the fbi wants the justice department to publicly deny claims that they were wiretapping trump tower. the new york times is now reporting fbi director james comay known for the back-and-forth of hillary clinton s e-mails is now asking the top law-enforcement in america to say that president trump is wrong. this following the president talking about the man who used to have his job. at this hour president trump is back in washington, d.c. where his administration is turning to congress for help. finding evidence to support his claim that former president obama had telephones that trump tower tapped during the election. we should point out that president trump has offered no proof so far. now, fbi director james comay is taking his concerns about it to the justice department. the new york times wants him to set the record straight because the president s claim imply the agency broke the law. president obama said intelligence chief says is is not truth. i will say for the parts of the national security apparatus that i oversaw is dni, there was no such wiretap activity mounted against the president-elect at the time or as a candidate, or against his campaign. i cannot speak for other title iii authorized entities in the government. harris: leyland begins our coverage from the white house. this sounds like a case case of the fbi shouting, tell them we did not break the law. you can look at it that way. it also sets up a showdown potentially between the fbi director in the presidency. between the attorney general and the president. the last time we had a showdown like that involve the current fbi director, james comay is a famous to having stood up to president bush and threatening to resign over a situation he did not like during the bush administration. whether it comes to that is yet to be seen. we cannot verify the new york times report but we have been told by law enforcement officials that president trump s allegations over twitter that president obama ordered wiretaps of his own during the election, caught senior law-enforcement officials completely off guard. adding to that, those officials had no idea what trump was talking about. the white house and for its part is not responding to responded to this new york times story either. they have not offered any proof in terms of what president trump was talking about or try to clarify what he meant. instead, instead, passing the buck to congress. the intelligence committee in the house have said they will pick up the baton and investigate claims as part of their overall investigation into russian involvement in the election. there are still many unanswered questions, including whether or not the presidents staff believe these claims to be true. here the deputy white house press secretary this morning. the president of the united states is accusing the former president of a wiretapping him. i think this is again, if this happened, if, if. i agree. why is the president saying it did happen. i think is going off of information that he is saying let him to believe this is a very real potential. the presidents information for the saturday morning tweet the president is in trouble. if he falsely spread this kind of misinformation, that is so wrong, it is beneath the dignity of the presidency. on the other hand, it s if it s true it s even worse for the president. that means that a federal judge independently elected has found probable cause that the presidents, or people on his staff have probable cause to have broken the law or to have interacted with a foreign agent. that is serious stuff. either way the president makes it worse with these tweets. there is a third possibility to senator schumer s scenario there. somehow members of the trump campaign or of his circle or associates were caught up in wiretaps that were placed on others. perhaps russian agents are those suspected. remember, the response and capitol hill are bewildered. even are bewildered. even the republicans are skeptical. this is in the first time the president has tried to pump punt to congress. we remember when he tweeted 3,000,000 illegal people had voted in the election. shortly after the upper they said there was gonna be a major investigation and the white house left it at that. now the past six weeks we have not heard much on that point either. harris: journalist do not have to reveal their sources, i am curious to know if breitbart has offered any evidence based on their own reporting of the story. not that we have seen. the breitbart article quoted a radio talkshow host who went through his sources and they talked about it in the guardian newspaper talking about a fisa warrant. those discussions are very specific to trump associates, not to mr. trump himself as he claims in his tweet. harris: we ll cover the story as it happens. thank you very much. republican lawmakers are now ready to use their congressional majority to start the process of repealing the affordable care act. his what the secretary of health and human services set about it today. what we want to make certain is we are being true to the principles of healthcare which is a system assessable to everybody and affordable to everyone and of the highest quality. making sure we incentivize and empower patients through transparency and accountability. that s what we ve been working on. we look forward to moving it very soon. harris: we have learned that that movement could happen any day now. here is lauren with the news. gop leaders are now aiming to give president trump a health care bill by easter. first, congressional republicans need to settle their disagreement on how the repeal and replace should work, and what is in the bill. house speaker paul ryan needs at least 216 votes in the house to push legislation to the senate. had not been created at the committee level yet. many congressional members must fall on to the promise of repealing and replacing obama care. leadership leadership may force republicans to vote for whatever registration they come up with. harris: at this hour i should add, senator rand paul s fear he over not being able to see what is in the hospital is only growing. he s been accused by some on capitol hill by bringing the drama. keep watching. watching. he goes one on one with me tonight and a fox interview. first a news alert. north korea fired what appears to be a missile missile off of the east coast near the border with china. the military says it landed in the seat early monday morning. they are ahead of us. apparently read palliative for joint military drills with the united states which began last week. north korea firing, first we weren t sure what it was, now bounty, the quicker picker upper harris: a senator notice is filibustered says he is now ready to begin afresh week of showdown. maybe some within his own party if he does not get to see what the house is about to vote on with regard to obama care. he tell me he predicts they will repeal what is now the healthcare law of the land within days. interesting timing. timing. senator rand paul on the fox report interview. i want to see the bill. apparently it was leaked to news organizations but not available for any senators. i heard the bill was there they would like to committee members members look at it but not make a copy of it. i do not think that is the way to do the obama care repeal. we complained about democrats and we said, we quoted nancy blows the and said we would know what was in the bill would we pass it. that is a bad way to do business but we should not be repeating it when we criticize the democrats for doing it that way. i think it needs to be more open process. i am waiting on a copy of the bill. i want to see the bill. they should know the proposal coming out of the house is obama care like. it includes new taxes on health insurance. it includes an individual mandate, instead of payment penalty to the government you have to pay a penalty to the insurance company. it also includes a new entitlement. this new entitlement may be bigger than the obama care subsidies. that needs to be debated. many members were not excited about that. we wanted to repeal it. harris: what you said about the feet going to the insurance companies instead of the government, the irs right now is really frightening. they have so much power. they are about as popular as the irs or media right now. how do you put the power back in the hands of the consumer? in my replacement though we let every individual join an association. let s say for example you are a member of a credit union, in my state 700,000 700,000 people belong to a credit union. they could all join the health association. then they would have to leverage one person negotiate for them. 700,000 people buying people buying insurance, one negotiator, they would get a good price, they will get guaranteed issue, they will not get dropped. if their family member get six their rates won t go up because they have leverage. i want to power the consumer to have more leverage against the insurance company. harris: you talked with president trump about this. how did that go and how did we get to the point now? the president is for replacement at the same time. so my. i think we re to the point where campion the same bill, it could be on the same day but not the same bill. the reason why, republicans are united about repeal, but we are not united about replacement. i want free market replacement replacement with more power going back to the individuals. some republicans want to keep parts of obama care. i m not going to vote for that. harris: we ve heard the president they could take 18 months to get something fresh and new in on top of what they have now. that puts you pass the next enrollment time. what to do with people who are already painted to the irs now? to they get a tax tax rebate? out as it work? i think repeal happens in the next week or two. we are not quite on the same page of what is on the bill but some form of repeal will pass in the next week or two. there will be a vote on replacement. some people want that to be in the same boat. i think it is to be separated. i want to get to something in your bill that you hear constituents talk about. that is pre-existing conditions. you are calling for a situation where there would be a two year enrollment time. do do you think that language will make it into the bill that you haven t seen that s locked up. what happens after the two years? what happens in two years as we legalize associations my hope is that over to your timeframe there s no individual left in the individual market. there are 11,000,000 people who are struggling right now in the individual market, my hope is that every one of them will join an association, when they get in an association that protects you from pre-existing conditions. an association plan is a group plan. not only will you get to leverage to get a lower price, you will get guaranteed issue, you will not be dropped and don t have to worry about a family member being sick. everything works in group insurance. we need to figure out how to get individuals into group insurance plans. and that s what my replacement bill does. harris: widely the mandate that people are paying for the irs so how do you pay for this? in my planned there is no government that expensive my plan. we have some tax reductions you get some of your money back but nothing in my plan that has an actual cost to government. you think you can cover the sickest people among us? i think you re probably going to do people who are very sick with expensive bills will be covered through medicaid. that s why it has traditionally been done. the poorest among us interstates are often some of the sickest among us. i think that is how they will continue to be taking care of. that is a better plan than the house leadership wants to spend $100 billion funding high risk pools. it doesn t make sense to put sick people in an insurance pool. you mosul just by healthcare. there are many details in this that have yet to be worked out. it would be helpful if everybody could see the bill. thank you very much. thank you. harris: this story coming together, syrian pilot found alive after his plane crashed in turkey. unknown at this hour what was his mission. plus, the fbi is now involved in a manhunt for for a mast gunmen accused of killing a sikh man ii washington. a racially charged attack that has a religious community calling for justice. it works with the water in your body to hydrate and soften, unblocking your system naturally. miralax. what bad back?gels work so fast you ll ask what pulled hammy? advil liqui - gels make pain a distant memory nothing works faster stronger or longer what pain? advil. overnight search. we were told he was exhausted but he is not in critical condition. siri has not released any information on what his mission was. the pilot told authorities he was headed toward a target in northern syria when he was shot down. turkey said their forces did not intervene and there is no violation of their air airspace. and manhunt is underway. the victim was shot in the arm by a mast man who told him to quote go back to your own country. the fbi is now getting involved after a civil rights group called on federal authorities to investigated as a hate crime. brian is looking into it. this all happened on friday night and a suburb of washington at about 8:00 p.m. on friday night, a 39-year-old sikh man, was on his own driveway when he was approached by man he did not know. they got into an altercation and the suspect shot the sick man in the arm and fled the scene. not before allegedly uttering a hateful statement, upsetting the police chief and the local sikh community. it was approached, confronted by subject and comments were made to the effect of get out of our country, get back to where you are from. our victim was then shot. this is very disheartening to see the new says somebody was actually a victim of hate crime in the city that we have never felt that before. of their their recovering in a hospital and please describe the man as a 6-foot tall white man with a mass covering the lower half of his face. he had a stocky build award dart clothing. so hate crime is very specific legal term are they using it here? it s early in the investigation and the fbi is investigating. the national secant coalition believes it is no doubt that anti-sikh hey crime with the statement while we appreciate the efforts of state and local officials to respond to attacks like this, we need our national leaders to make hate crime prevention a top priority. tone matters in our political discourse because it s a matter of life or death for millions of americans who are worried about losing loved ones to hate. mail seeks often wear turbans and grout the beer because of their faith. they are not muslim, but even still, after 9/11 seeks nationwide have dealt with this hates. in 2012 a. in 2012 a man shot and killed six sikh worshipers and entered others near milwaukee before killing himself. on february 22 at a kansas bar, a gunman left one indian man dead, another wounded and a hero bystander wounded. the fbi s investigating that investigating that shooting is a hate crime after witnesses say that suspect yelled get out my country . you heard president trump talk about what happened in kansas city, raising awareness across the nation through his own words. it s good to have you. thank you. a skier in the italian apps got caught in an avalanche and die. three other people including an american were hurt when snow plunged on the mountainside. all three are three are expected to be okay, the survivors. their survey and the damages and looking for other victims of by helicopter. democrats are turning up the heat on attorney general jeff sessions. why they they say is recusing himself from the investigation in meddling in the election does not go far enough. fbi director james comay is how we started this hour and is weighing in on the wiretap plan. is comay stepping into the center of another political heo firestorm? i will talk about it with the fox report political panel. stay put grandma! grandpa! lilly, look how tall you ve grown. look! you brought it. thanks, mom. coaching means making tough choices. jim! you re in! but when you have high blood pressure and need cold medicine that works fast, the choice is simple. coricidin hbp is the only brand that gives powerful cold symptom relief without raising your blood pressure. coricidin hbp. and her new business: i do, to go. jeanette was excellent at marrying people. but had trouble getting paid. not a good time, jeanette. even worse. now i m uncomfortable. but here s the good news, jeanette got quickbooks. send that invoice, jeanette. looks like they viewed it. and, ta-da! paid twice as fast. oh, she s an efficient officiant. way to grow, jeanette. new. get paid twice as fast for free. visit quickbooks-dot-com. this story developing as we come to you live on this sunday night. fbi director james comey has asked the justice department to publicly say part president trump got it wrong. the new york times is reporting former president obama ordered a wiretap inside trump tower before the election. law enforcement officials are saying the allegations cut them off and they have no idea what the president is talking about. all this as president trump has arrived back in washington d.c. where some congressional republicans say they may expand their russia probe in order to investigate those allegations themselves. also caught up in the russian controversy, jeff sessions, the, the former alabama senator, is preparing to submit amended written policy regarding his previously undisclosed contact with the russian ambassador. let s go live to washington. reporter: you remember, about a hundred democrats had called for sessions to step down as attorney general and there wasn t much of a chance that what happened so they believe his recusal is a step in the right direction. this morning, democrats took to the sundays show to argue it s not enough. a special outside counsel needs to be appointed to oversee any investigation into russia. at the same time they conceded that a number of investigations into russians interference into our election, there have been zero hard evidence of the trump campaign and the kremlin. chris coons said he thanks he knows where the evidence may be. i have no hard evidence. i think what hard evidence there might be will be discovered through a full release of president trumps financial interests, concerns and taxes or what the fbi and intelligence community has on conversations between the russians and government officials. mike flynn and jeff sessions has a concerning pattern within the trump administration of officials not disclosing ties to russia. marco rubio defended the atty. general and said democrats are simply doing anything they can to hurt the president s agenda. i think we ve got to the point of hysteria. that is ambassadors trying to meet with people all the time. i literally meet with dozens of ambassadors at as do most senators. senator rubio also said the real threat of russia trying to influence our election is getting lost in the mix of these investigations. i understand, even the man said to take over the investigation for jeff sessions could have a hard time with lawmakers. why is that. he certainly could and we know of at least four ongoing investigations. they re taking place in the senate subcommittee of crime and terrorism and the fbi has an ongoing investigation. now that jeff sessions has recused himself, his deputy attorney general will oversee those efforts. before then rosenstein will have to make it through his confirmation hearing where he will certainly face some tough questions regarding russia and the trump administration. garrett, thank you very much. moments ago we had reported the new york times was reporting former president obama ordered a wiretap inside trump tower before the election. actually, what i meant to say, they are pointing to the fact that james comey wants the justice department to say the fbi had nothing to do with that, but there is no evidence of that. that is with the new york times was reporting. we are still waiting for president trump or anyone in his administration to bring forth the evidence they have or breitbart, the radio host would bring it forth, and when they do we will report it. let s bring in jay who is a former senior advisor to john kasich and doug shown our former advisor to bill clinton and fox news contributor. let s talk about this tonight. how unusual would it be for the fbi director, james comey to ask the fbi director to say the president got his accusations wrong. when james comey writes his book, i will preorder it on amazon because this is the most fascinating guy in washington. he has been involved in more controversy than he has been standing. he shown no compunction about going against the norm and making announcements were other officials wouldn t. why wouldn t he make this announcement himself? there are a lot of problems that the trump administration.with everyone fighting each other, but i wonder why comay didn t go forward and asked the question himself. that s an excellent point. doug, do you know why? i sure do because it s not the role of the fbi director and any shape manner or form to interject himself. then why did he do it on july 5 when he said the prosecutors and justice department should look no further at hillary clinton and her e-mails and the tops are secret server. because he was announcing the conclusions of a criminal investigation because loretta lynch herself had gone on, or bill clinton had got on her plane. it made him the most likely person to do it. that was an extraordinary event and that should happen once. it happened similarly in september, right before the election. yes he said he had additional evidence that required him to come forward and review it. so why not now say there s no evidence does show this. actually because i think we need a larger scale investigation with both. a congressional investigation of donald trump s claims and special counsel to investigate democratic claims about russia and jeff sessions. this should be taken out of politics. it should be done not on a half haphazard basis. we are not a banana republic and we need people to stay in their role and we should let people investigate and come up with conclusions, not shoot from the hip. would it be impossible, dog, jay i don t mean to ignore you, you can jump in anytime. would it be. would it be impossible for what the president says happen happen? trump tower is huge. i ve heard argument today they may have been investigating and this wiretapping fell into this particular scope. it would be impossible. it wouldn t be impossible and the president was pretty definitive. given that he is the president we have to pay attention to what he says. it could be one of the other 17 intelligence agencies that was looking at the president and the president himself said that was on obama s orders. they haven t said definitively that there was no wiretapping of donald trump at all, and it s conceivable it was part of the ongoing look at russia s role in the election campaign. i don t rule that out, but we have to get it out of politics and get it to be investigated by neutral parties, not by political partisans or the fbi and justice department doing extraordinary and unusual, extra constitutional things. what you expect to happen next in all of this? who knows what will happen next. this has been one bombshell after another. what should happen? i think some independent looks into this is warranted, i think there s enough questions being raised so that is a fair thing to do. here s what the white house has to be careful of. there are a lot of clouds and suspicion. they will have a lot of fatigue going into this next legislative session. there s a lot of big things they want to pass. a lot of things the american people expect them to do. when you have clout like this it s very difficult to have it happen. i might be beneficial to let them come in and get past this and move on to the agenda. okay, that s what we are going to do. were going to talk about the affordable care act. i don t know if you caught senator rand paul earlier, i was trying to dial back the drama and let s just get the facts going forward. those facts could include repealing obamacare. i want to come back to you. if republicans are like senator paul says, don t don t quite have an even keel on what they have want to have her place, where are they on all the. i think you have to tread very carefully on all this. repealing obamacare is a very popular thing, but so is the medicaid expansion that happen in a lot of states around the country. if they are not careful about this and don t treat this with caution, there could be massive rows revolts around the country. they have to be careful. i think they can get it done. there s a lot of good idea but timing is very important. i watched your interview and you made a good point about enrollment periods that they have to be really careful about. doug, i come to you because they can t really get it done without the democrats. i m wondering if there are enough of them like you that will come to the table and sit down. the 69 that skipped the inauguration, maybe they were going to get a sandwich, but now it s important to bring the sandwich to the table. i couldn t agree more. the problem that jay was skirting around was, while was, while i agree with the general point, we can t forget medicaid expansion, we can t forget the 20 million people who could lose coverage. they have no clear consensus themselves which is why they are exactly right. we need the democrats because 40 odd republicans have just said no. we could have complete chaos, more demonstration, more town halls and more than just hard-core democrats. if we repeal obamacare but don t get something in its place quickly. before we wrap up, i do want to make this point and get your response, no one should be taking political advantage of the. as you look at your friend across the aisle, it s a little confusing that people like senator schumer, i don t want to say they are gleeful about the pushback, but here s a chance for the democrats to step up and be able to do the right thing. i would hope they would come to the table and do the right thing, but this is politics. it s washington. it s 2017. anything could happen. we just have to fight through it. let s go make it happen and do the right thanks. harris you are exactly right. this is in a time to gloat or play politics. people s lives are at stake and i hope chuck schumer follows your direction and it s a bipartisan effort. the american people will win. that s what we need as democrats, what donald trump and the country needs. look at that. a big old republican democrat goodbye. the next time we talk we could talk about the executive order of the rollout of immigration but we are not there yet because it hasn t happened. we expected it last week and were still watching to see if it happens this week. jay and doug, thank you very much. okay, tensions are rising and fists were flying as protesters confronted trump supporters. injury, arrest, and now president trump is weighing in.l if they give them the opportunity to do all the things he said he would do. why put up with just part of a day? aleve, live whole not part. tell you what, i ll give it to you for half off. z282uz zwtz y282uy ywty termites, feasting on homes twenty-four-seven. we re on the move. roger. hey rick, all good? oh ya, we re good! we re good. termites never stop trying to get in, we never stop working to keep them out. terminix. defenders of home. and ten people were arrested. president trump tweeted support to his supporters. will carr is live in los angeles reporter: you may remember a couple weeks ago president trump asked his supporters to rally across the country. that was what was happening in berkeley when the situation got out of control. supporters and protesters brawling in a park. once that it seemed more like a professional wrestling match than a political rally. some people left beaten and bloodied and others were behind bars. american flags and pro trump hats were burned. for the most part berkeley police stood by and watch the chaos saying they didn t make immediate arrest because they were worried there might be fights or violence. they were criticized last month for not making any arrest when protesters destroyed a hundred thousand dollars in property the night a controversial speaker was set to speak. julie: i m curious. you had rallies that were planned and in most been a municipalities you would let people know that was happening, but these people that showed up to go against the people who were holding the rallies, what are authorities saying about them. you see that a lot 11 side said they re going to show up in the other side shows up too. authorities are left to sort it all out. for the most part the rallies were peaceful. supporters demonstrated in dozens of states. many let the country know why they voted for trump and why they think he will make america great again. we heard from peaceful protesters as well. take a listen to what both sides had to say. a lot of what trump was talking about on the campaign trail was actually for fifth-generation hispanic, or for the black community, people here who are working class, who want to get ahead and live the american dream. i am worried we don t have honesty, we don t have transparency, i don t know if that s ever been a strong suit of the government, but it seems to be getting worse. important to note, many demonstrators have said they want to have a dialogue but there is no place for violence at these rallies. that would be great. good to see you. julie: let s check in now on taking back a key city from the hands of the isis savages. why a senior commander says iraqi forces are facing their biggest challenge yet as they close in on a key location. stay with us. jumped into city life as a kid. .and kept my town moving. but i couldn t bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor and he prescribed lyrica. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening 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past two weeks. hundreds of thousands more remain and are trapped in the crossfire. the fighting in mosul is expected to continue for several more weeks, but the pentagon is already drawing up plans for the battle of rocca in neighboring syria. it could include u.s. troops on the ground near the front line. julie: thank you for the update. okay, just because we can, we are going to show you this. video of a controlled implosion in atlanta. i don t know why i like to watch this. this is the iconic georgia art archives building. it has been standing since the 60s and was taken down. some 500,000 hundred thousand pounds of dynamite were used. that was the city i was born in. blowing stuff up. that s great. we ll be right back. let s party! 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responsible for uncovering spies. i got a call when i was in los angeles. we want you to come back and run this group. when i went over to the counterespionage group i asked if i could bring an assistant with me, somebody from the fbi and john i had work would previously in laufros angeles. the first fbi agents inserted in like cover in the cia was a singular opportunity. i tend to value those more and i ve never regretted it. most of the people in the cia did not know i was there looking for a spy. did you have a cia badge or cia badge. so they didn t know you were from the fbi? within a week everybody in that building knew i was from the fbi. they didn t particularly care for me being there but they definitely knew who i was. humana medicare advantage members. no, it s this john smith. who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care that s just as unique as you are. no matter what your name is. .has grown into an enterprise. that s why i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. now, i m earning unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase i make. everything. what s in your wallet? 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don t we let him go? decision was made that we would inform the singapore intelligence service and jim nicholson would go to singapore. when he got off the plane in singapore he s under surveillance. and he almost immediately begins what we call dry cleaning. surveillance detection runs designed to pick up anybody trying to surveill or follow you. that s where the term dry cleaning comes from. you re cleansing yourself of all these unwanted attachments. going down a set of stairs and immediately turning around and going back up so if anyone s following you you re likely to run right into them. looking in the pane glass windows of large department stores. he s looking at the reflections in the glass. but doing surveillance detection runs is not what one usually does on a vacation. but you re still only suspecting him. you haven t made your case yet. but on the third day of surveillance, the perverbial black limo pulls up to the curb and jim hops in and our surveillance team looks down to the license plate. russian embassy. once he went in that embassy, he was a bad guy. there was no suspect kbanymore. he is a subject of an fbi investigation. so after identifying jim in singapore as our spy. the next challenge is where can we position him to do the least amount of damage? the decision was made to put him as a branch chief in the counterterrorism center. given the environment at the time, pre-9/11, that s where we could most effectively detain him. you re letting him know he can do what he wants because nobody s watching me. so it s finally in june 1996 he began his new duties as a branch chief in counterterrorism. now you have to collect the evidence and present it for an arrest warrant. we have to monitor his activities 24 hours a day. that means every time he steps foot outside his house, surveillance. anytime he s in the house, we have to know who he s talking to. we had to get a human source in his office so that we know every time he gets up from his desk, he walks out, our guy goes out with him. 1996 i get a cable in the field that says you re assigned to human resources. it was something i didn t want to do and clearly thought i had pissed my division chief off. i was in over seas and then came back. i did not want be to in human resources. because that s like the kiss of death for a case officer. so sitting in my brand new desk in h.r. and one morning i got a call from the front offices and the boss called up and said don t tell anybody where you re going, speak to nobody, get up in front of my desk right now. i said okay. sat down, chief explained to him we want to put you on a very special assignment, but we re not going to tell you what it s about. and if it s no, your career is over. that was implied. there was a long pause where i didn t say anything and neither did he. the only variable i have in the room was there was a man i didn t recognize. i said can i ask one question? he said you can ask, i don t know if i ll answer. and introduced himself as the highest ranking fbi agent assigned inside cia. my mind was racing at that point. he said you got to give me an answer now. if you say no, go back to h.r., if you say yes, we ll tell you what this is all about and i say yeah, i ll take it. i ll do it. once he accepted the assignment. i said go outside now, don t stop, don t say anything to anybody and somebody will meet you. and i said yes, sir and left the building. and they took me to a safe house in northern virginia. they said we have a spy inside the building and we want you to help us catch him. initially it was like getting kicked in the stomach. another major espionage case inside of cia. it was a devastating piece of information. we had to have someone as close up as possible to nicholson and john hopefully was going to be that candidate but you couldn t thrust john on jim or jim would be suspicious. you had to do it in a way that jim would think it s his choice, his selection that brought john in the game. the first step was get him to pick you and that job was the deputy chief of the unit run by nicholson. the interview wasn t particularly long but i got along well with him. it was clear he didn t have a lot of good things to say about the structure of the leadership in the agency. my views of h.r. were a good laughter in the interview and he understood completely that i thought i was going to die if i stayed there. whenever you have an interaction with anybody that s a planned activity. you always come back and reflect on what you did and i came away with the opinion that it went pretty good. jim did an excellent job as a manager choosing the best person for that job and ultimately he chose mcguire. unbeknownst to jim, he was a spy and probably the last person he wanted to have next to him. and ended up sitting in the next next to nicholson s and then it was game on. it s a big, big risk. now you re going outside your perimeter. this is the person close to say nicholson. you re going to lunch, going to talk about cases. so that person could do something stupid and nicholson would be alerted something s wrong here. basically you have a one-strike scenario. if you mess up or give away something, you could derail the entire investigation. but we make more than our name suggests. we re an organic tea company. a premium juice company. a coconut water company. we ve got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and we make them for every moment in every corner of the country. we are the coca-cola company, and we re proud to offer so much more. you know win control? 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(vo) go national. go like a pro. and jumps again to over 150 after a year. noooo. and ends up costing over 3500 bucks over 2 years. you re cleaning that up. don t get caught off guard by directv. touchdown. get the best with xfinity. i was brought in as an undercover guy. my job was to catch him doing an espionage act that would directly tie him to the russians. so in the spring of 1996 i started as nicholson s deputy in the counterterrorism center. at that time radical islamic terrorism was on the rise. so there was a lot of real work stuff going on that you had to focus on. they were looking at critical players who eventually became known post 9/11. in the middle of all that you re trying to catch your boss compiling information he s going to give to the russians. to have a human source in touch with him every day is invaluable. getting to know him was part of the exercise. i spent a lot of time going to lunch with him, drinking beer with him. my goal with the investigation was to immerse myself in him but it was mentally draining every day. because i describe him as a flawed personality, a flawed man. over time that became very parent that he had a special view of himself. a ruthless narcissistic guy that didn t care about anybody. and you re with him all the time. there was no retreat from it. jim nicholson is the most formidable opponent you could possibly go up against as a counterespionage agent because he s so well trained in the craft. and mcguire provided personality assessment back to the fbi. and john was very, very good at it. and even with john, as close as john was to him, that s still not giving us the exact intell and insights to what is he doing minute by minute, second by second. that s why we knew we had to get a fiber-opticing camera in his office. you ve seen the tile ceilings with the thousands of pin holes in them. he s no bigger than one of those pin holes. at one point nicholson got up on his chair and was rooting around in the ceiling. he was reaching up into the ceiling and pushing tiles. john, move your but. he s moving tiles. so i just barged into his office and he was standing on the chair and i said what the hell are you doing in here? and he said i thought something was loose. i was just taking a look. i said okay. he didn t find anything, he didn t disrupt anything so there was no compromise and everybody breathed a huge sigh of relief. next thing we needed was to get access to his van in the parking lot. that s a big thing. he was like a northern virginia soccer mom. he was playing a role. he didn t want to attract any attention to himself. a single dad driving a mini van with three kids. invisible guy in northern virginia. we managed to manipulate him in a way he would go on a business trip, leave his van as opposed to parking in his driveway at home. then of course we didn t want to get careless or lazy. there s still eyes on the langly compound. so we did it really, really late at night. we had to pick up the van, physically pick it up, fork lift it because he may have checked the odometer reading on it and the fbi went through the whole van. some people say isn t that a little extreme putting it on a flat bed so the odometer wasn t changed? not if you were trained like he was trained. he knows all these techniques. you underestimate him at your own paeril is what we felt. they went through that van and they got significant data, intelligence data. he hadn t left his computer in there, everything. we were able to image that laptop and do a quick initial assessment as to what was on there and we found the tasking order from his russian handler and that s even before we did the really in-depth analysis we were able to do in the off site. we discovered he had given a true name and identity of the spies that went through the training program. that was a line that really frosted me at that point. because that s a mercenary activity that i don t think any other spy has ever done. the question at that point is do you have enough for resting conviction? we didn t have that at that time. i wanted to shoot him at his desk, truth be told. but i wanted to catch him. in october we had the first major break in the case. i had gone off campus and had lunch with nicholson and nicholson was driving iratically and looked like he was doing a surveillance detection run and said we re going to a post office. there s unusual stamps here and we went out to the post office, he bought them and we proceeded back to the building from there. and for me, looking at it as a case officer i thought he s going to mail something overseas. going to the post office to get a special stamp, that would be a clue that would have alerted the fbi right away that something s unusual happening. john gave us the heads up we needed to watch him like a hawk. we summoned the resources and we did just that. they bet heavy on what i told them, they covered him relentlessly and caught him mailing a post card to the russians. they processed his post card as evidence and then put the mail back in the box and sent it on its way. the post card indicating his intent to travel and meet with his russian handlers. hello old friend. i hope. it is possible you ll be my guest for a ski holiday this year on 2324 november. a bit early but it would fit my schedule nicely. hope are the same and can accept my invitation. best regards, neville r. scratchy. it could be code name for him. there s a variety of things it could mean. that s a communication between him and the russians saying i m ready for my next meet. it s a signal he s doing something. once we saw the contents of that letter, we knew we had to bring this thing down. what really put the nails in that final coffin was prior to his trip we noticed jim photographing classified documents to pass along to his russian handlers. we knew he was taking pictures of classified documents. he was storing up and getting ready for his trip. it was like cramming for an exam. we knew if he was leaving country for a meeting with the russians, he would have to take his compromising material and intelligence with him. we were confident he would have classified material in his person or bags in some fashion, we just had to find it. we ve got enough to convict him of espionage and arrest him. i m the one clocking in. when you re clocking out. sensing your every move and automatically adjusting to help you stay effortlessly comfortable. there. i can also help with this. does your bed do that? oh. i don t actually talk. though i m smart enough to. i m the new sleep number 360 smart bed. let s meet at a sleep number store. so wouldn t it be perfect if. ..there was a single site. .where you could find the. .right hotel for you at the best price? there is. because tripadvisor now compares. .prices from over 200 booking. .sites .to save you up to 30%. .on the hotel you want. trust this bird s words. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices. without pg&e s assistance, without their training our collaboration with pg&e is centered around public safety. we could not do our mission to keep our community safe. anytime we are responding to a structure fire, one of the first calls you make is for pg&e for gas and electric safety. it s my job to make sure that they have the training that they need to make the scene safe for themselves and for the public. it s hands-on training actually turning valves, turning systems off, looking at different wire systems all that training is crucial to keeping our community safe and our firefighters safe. together, we re building a better california. they caught jim nicholson mailing a post card to the russians. that s a communication saying i m ready for my next meet. a signal he s doing something. what really put the nails in the final coffin was we witnessed jim photographing classified documents to pass along to his russian handlers. we were very confident he would have classified material in his person or bags in some fashion. we just had to find it. we have enough to convict him of espionage and arrest him. november dulles international airport, the fbi finally brought this matter to conclusion. they placed themselves throughout the area in undercover positions surrounding the entire plane. we had agents as bag handlers. there were fbi agents everywhere. he would go through security so you were sure he had nothing on him that could be a weapon. he was also through security and committed himself to leaving the country to prove he was inroute to meet the russians. on the tarmac at dulles and let you know that his life as a spy had now ended. his entire life collapsed around him in a five second window where he realized at that moment my life is over. the look on his face is the only honest look i saw on his face the whole time i knew the man. this arrest demonstrates that te counterintelligence reforms that have been put into place in the wake of aldridge ames have taken hold and led to our success in catching the spy, nicholson. jim finally reached pleato with the prosecution. and he was at the trial table as he read his statement. we locked eye contact briefly and he turned away but his face looked ashen when he turned away and that s the last time i ever laid eyes on the guy. he was sentenced to 23 years and at his request transferred to a prison in oregon so he could be close to his children and his family. why was he spying for the russians? that s a good question but i don t know. he claims he needed the money. but i think that s just an excuse. i think he viewed himself as a master spice that could operate with impunity in our face. it s like pursuing adventure all the time in the foreign service. wherever you go you ll find something interesting to do. he asked for it. he chose poorly and he paid for it and he ll pay for it until he draws his last breath. in the summer of 2007 i got called down to the special agent in charge s office out of the blue and asked if i was interested in working on a very important case that would ultimately be very high profile and so of course the next logical question from my perspective was well, what is it? and the answer was you got to say yes before we ll tell you what the is that you re going to be working on. that was called into my supervisor s office in eugene, oregon. he said you wanted me to close or reassign every case that i had. which was very unusual and considering i had some significant cases at the time. so i drove the 110 miles to portland. we learned that jim nicholson s son was suspected of working with his father and making contact with the russians. i was familiar with james nicholson, his being the highest ranking cia officer ever convicted of espionage. he was 12 years old when his dad went to jail in 1996. at that point we needed additional information to solidly make the criminal case. even though he was in prison, he was very high up in the ranks and knew quite a bit about the innerworkings of the agency. you never know for sure what information he could still be giving them. we needed to find out what it was that was being provided by jim nicholson to the russians. so we went back and looked at the telephone calls he had made to try to gleen information that might be useful for the case. you have a prepaid call from this is daddy. an inmate i thought i d call you and see what kind of hours you re keeping these days. oh, pretty much the same i guess. yeah, i m on the road heading back now. okay. did everything go okay? yeah, everything went real well. got mail for about 5k. so business is picking up, huh? yeah, sure is. oh, excellent. i mean there was odd phone calls of him making a sale for 5k and nathan was barely treading water. he wauorked at pizza hut and lid in a small apartment near springfield. we started pealing the onion about nathan and what he might be doing for his father involving russian intelligence. nathan had been going to visit jim since he was 12 years old and he idolized his dad from those contacts. he seemed to be a very dutiful son, really cared about his family, his siblings, his religious convictions. seemed like a pretty nice person trying to make his own way since he was probably 12 years old. he got injured and his life has been a series of set backs. i think nathan was vulnerable at that point to looking for some direction and dad had a plan in mind. i do know that he used scripture to try to influence and manipulate his boy in a way that, in my view, was not positive. hey, i got a verse for you. it s isaiah 45: 3. isaiah 45: 3? yeah, it s really going to be a good one. and i will give you treasures hidden in the dark ntsz, secret riches. i will do this so you know i am the lord, the one who calls you by name. yep. wow. i like that. yeah. i like that. i claimed it for you and me. absolutely. you know basically was telling nathan he was a loyal soldier and we re doing god s work. it s a calling. i don t think jim would make father of the year. far from it. we were eager to start monitoring nathan s telephone calls, his travel in his car, all the kinds of ways that he might communicate with the russians to find out what was it that he could be giving them that might be of value. we were able to monitor his computer use and we were able to give a gps on his car. the gps was put on the fifth of december, which was a friday. but was not until the following monday until they went to test the gps for the first time that it went perfectly. but the problem was it was at portland international airport. it was a surprise, not a pleasant surprise. so immediately he was going to meet with the russians, figure out what his itinerary was in terms of when he would be returning. the decision was made to intercept him when he came back into the country. o an enterpris. that s why i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. now, i m earning unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase i make. everything. what s in your wallet? own specific health needs. at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care that s just as unique as you are. no matter what your name is. with incredible flavors, like new nashville hot shrimp- crispy, spicy, and drizzled with sweet amber honey. plus the delicious classics you love, like garlic shrimp scampi. try all the shrimp you want, however you want em. but hurry, it ends soon. interviewing nathan about the purpose of his trip, fbi agents were copying all the paperwork that nathan had brought back with him. and during that search we found a number of very inhad criminating items that really broke the case wide open. they found some money that he brought back. i think it was over 7 or $8 thousand on him. and they found a notebook that had a lot of very interesting information in it. the notebook was pretty much the jackpot. it confirmed he had addresses of the russian embassy in mexico city and in lima, peru. the russians were always interested in finding out how james nicholson got caught first go around. just like any spy agency, they re concerned with moles in their midst. he used his son as a courier to curry questions from jim and to them back to him in prison for him he received compensation and we found information about the mexican yahoo account with a password in it and they used codewards in the communication. the russians were dick and he was nancy. this had a treasure trove of information that alowed us to predict what was going to happen from that point forward. i think he waned to do such a good job that he kept detailed notes. he was not very good spy. after this all happened, they let him go on his way and went home. we had discussions back at head quarters as to where we wanted to go with this case. the evidence we got from the customs search in houston was very suspicious. but in and of itself was still circumstantial. so a decision was made we were going to let this play out because we needed to develop additional information to solidly make the criminal case. in october 2008, nathan logged on to the yahoo mexican account using the password and left a message using code names to confirm another meeting for our december 10th meeting. it was like hello, nancy, it s good to hear from you. my brother eugene is well. the russians were nancy. nathan was dick and jim was eugene. the meeting for cyprus was on. prior to his trip to cyprus, his father which when i saw it immediately jumped out at me as something that could not have been designed for nathan pfsz viewing but had to have been for the russians. it was all sorts of information about jim and his children. jim goes into his eldest son s background who was in the air force. nicholson who s already in the military. he was trying to throw a carrot to the russians like i have this other son. maybe down the road this will be of some value. i look at jim s letters and go you sob. you did this to nathan and now you re putting this out there. you could be putting your oldest son and family in jeopardy. nathan travelled to cyprus in december of 2008 for the purpose of meeting with the russians while there. he was supposed meet them at tgi fridays on the evening of wednesday, december the 8th. the russians met him at that location and he was ultimately paid $12 thousand. and he provided the russians with a letter that had been given to him by jim that had all the information about jim and his cypress. it had all the information about jim. we knew we had infer evidence to charge the father, charge the son. it was time to bring it to a close. we shouldn t vanquish you to another dimension! ok, guys, hear me out. switching to geico could save you. hundreds on car insurance. huh, he does make a point. i do like to save money. catch you on the flip, suckas! geico. because saving fifteen percent or more on car insurance is always a great answer. believe the health we aof our water sourcesany is essential to the health of our communities. which is why we re helping to replenish the mighty rio grande as well as over 30 watersheds across the country. we re also leading water projects in more than 100 communities. and for every drop we use. we re working to give one back. because our products rely on the same thing as we all do. clean water. and we care about it like our business depends on it. you know win control? 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(vo) go national. go like a pro. i enjoy the fresher things in life.o. fresh towels. fresh soaps. and of course, tripadvisor s freshest, lowest. .prices. so if you re anything like me. .you ll want to check tripadvisor. we now instantly compare prices. .from over 200 booking sites. .to find you the lowest price. .on the hotel you want. go on, try something fresh. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices. we ll give you a chance to set this right. we said lying to the fbi is a crime, and we know quite a bit about your travel. and for the next hour or two he pretty much confessed everything and gave a written confession. but he didn t actually get arrested until a couple weeks later. we wanted to see what he would say post. interview while we still had electronic coverage of him, his conversations with other people showing guilty knowledge, guilty intebt. and one of the conversations we overheard after he was interviewed by the fbi was with his sister star. nathan, are you okay? i m okay. are you okay? i m good. what s up with the fbi? well, it s kind of a long story to be honest with you. you know the fbi interviewed everybody. yeah, i know. but what was going on is i was trance porting some information. uh-huh. and, you know, getting paid for it. okay. and that s what the whole deal was about. so what was the information for? well, it was for the russians. dude, seriously. you just sound kind of like what daddy did. yeah, it was exactly what daddy did, and he acknowledged he d sort of been living allie for the last year and a half. and i went out to talk to jim nicholson in the prison on december 15th. and i showed him a postcard that had written on it welcome to cyprus. and i explained to him at that point that we knew what hbd going on. and he said, well, it sounds like what you re trying to do is put nathan in jail. so before i say anything, i think i m going to need to talk to an attorney. as a parent myself, i would have thought he d been ready to do almost anything to try and get nathan out of a jam. but he didn t help his son. in january nathan was arrested and eventually released on bail. but i think he spent about 72 days in jail. jim gave him the idea he had not done anything wrong right from the get go. and so being held in jail, it kind of helped him to the conclusion that maybe his dad hadn t been as good a friend as he always made himself out to be. i had myself believe that i wasn t doing anything wrong. here s my hero. he was trying to help me out. and i still wrestle with the idea that he may or may not have manipulated me. nathan received five years probation from the judge, and jim got an additional eight-year sentence and was ultimately sent to super maximum in florence, colorado. jim nicholson basically said it was just a way to help out the family, but i don t think so. i think he just fooled himself. i mean jim fancied himself as being quite the spymaster. but how good a spy could jim have been, he s the only guy i know that got caught twice. were you surprised jim used his son to contact the russians? surprised, not really. further disappointed, yeah. somewhat shocked from the perspective of the father, that one father could do this to his son. but that s what desperate people do. he loved his kids, but he loved himselfself more. he s an extreme narsest. i think you have to put it that way. for a father to do this to his family, i can t believe it. what makes somebody do that and then use his son to continue the operation, that s deplorable. his whole belief system has
and donate some money and get involved, whatever you want to do. we want to thank everybody so much for having us here tonight. tomorrow night paul ryan in washington, tonight, say goodbye, everybody! goodbye! tucker: good evening and welcome to tucker carlson tonight. hurricane armand is one of the strongest terms ever measured in the atlantic ocean and now it s making its way through the caribbean. south florida residents have already been ordered to evacuate, governor rick scott a ford it is warming storm is more powerful in 1992 s hurricane andrew that devastated parts of that state. rick reichmuth is our chief meteorologist at fox, he s been tracking irma since the very beginning, he joins us now. what s it looking like? in the bahamas, i also want to show you, take a look at this, tucker. three hurricanes out there. jose out in the atlantic, that big impacts, or deviations of this will cause a big impacts or less impacts across florida but the best guess at this point is the eastern side of florida certainly having maybe a directed, if not watching the storm go all the way up the shore. very similar to what we saw lester with eric and matthew, maybe making a second landfall somewhere around georgia or south carolina. a lot of oxygen has gone to florida the last of down a couple of days. watching this very closely as well. tucker: can you put this in perspective for us? how big is the storm? so one thing, size of storm, another thing is strength of song. as far as size is probably about a medium-sized hurricane although i think because the pressure is continuing to drop a comment we will probably see it grow in size by the time it gets towards florida. size is one thing, as of right now the strong winds extend out about 50 miles from the center, the hurricane force winds. whether hurricane force winds are isn t a huge area just yet but expect to see that white mount by the time he gets here. this pressure is very low and as far as the strength of those wins, they are extreme. second strongest winds everywhere in the atlantic basin. you were hearing a lot of people say the strongest ever, that is the open atlantic, that is not including the gulf and caribbean. you put that altogether and it s tight for the second strongest wins, the highest we ve ever seen in the atlantic. tucker: thanks a lot for that. hurricane irma made landfall in the u.s. virgin islands today causing widespread damage. in advance of the storm s arrival of the territory s governor ordered the national guard to prepare for the coming catastrophe by suppressing certain constitutional rights. an executive order issued on tuesday, governor kenneth map and powered the guards seize guns and ammunition from citizens, all to maintain public order after the storm. the order echoes a similar one issued by the mayor of new orleans prior to hurricane katrina. the nra is already threatening legal action over that order. the governor joins us now. governor, before we get to the question of your order, give us a quick update on the conditions of the virgin islands tonight. hurricane irma did go through the u.s. virgin islands with the most severe wins and catastrophic wins going through the st. thomas, st. john district, islands. we experienced sustained winds of at least 150 miles an hour with the costs in excess of tha that. we ve had damages to our hospital, fighting stations. a good number of homes have lost their roofs. we are doing that assessment. if we are i think about 20-30-mile-an-hour winds as it makes its way out of the virgin islands so we are doing that assessment. you must really say that the federal partners of fema, the dod, the trump administration, president trump and his team have really been a true good partner and really helping us as we go through this event. tonight we are beginning to mobilize resources into the territory. we will have aircraft landing on the big islands, the airfield has just been cleared to take military aircraft. to position assets. priority in the st. thomas i can st. john district. shelter, nutrition, debris cleanup, hospital e back as we had catastrophic damages in hospital and security. tucker: we are certainly wrong for you, it s a beautiful place. why does confiscating citizens can t make this catastrophe better? let me say, first first of t is just a complete and correct assessment. i did not order or authorize the national guard to seize any weapons from any citizens and i do not have the power by the virgin islands law or by the constitution of the united states to seize weapons from citizens via the military. this order is a standing order that most generals receive. it says it empowers the general to see his arms, ammunition, explosives, incendiary material, it means the general, if they do not have sufficient weaponry, they would go to anyplace like a store that they could buy that stuff, meaning they have the right he has the authorization to spend government resources and acquired. it s different than the same example of one of the government sees his property. we don t seize property without due compensation for the property owner. tucker: i m a little confused. i m reading the order right here and it says that the general is authorized and directed to seize arms, ammunition, explosives and incendiary material. that may be required by military forces. it doesn t say anything in her about taking weapons from citizens we have no authority, i have no authority under the u.s. constitution virgin islands law. you can see in the order it references sections of the virgin islands code. there s no authority in there to seize any property from a citizen, particularly arms or ammunition. our national guard tucker: hold on. i m reading it and it doesn t make any distinction at all between citizens and i don t know walls, noncitizens. that is exactly the point. when you mobilize the national guard the general is authorized to ensure that all of the resources that soldiers require that she has or he has authority to get them. not to go into people s homes and get them but to get them as the government acquires property in the open market. this order, this language, this law is for the mobilization of rollout of national guard units. again i ve read this order twic twice. you re saying this gives them the authority to take weapons that the government and the current dominant virgin islands already owns from armories? let us assume that some circumstances came up at the national guard it needed some munition that was not with an armory. if that munition was available in any retail store, the national guard, the general would not have to go through the procurement process of the government to purchase it, she could go in there and by that right off the rack because she s doing, or he s doing what is required to retrofit the national guard. this is not about seizing anybody s personal property. tucker: so it s not about disarming the population. because as you know, when hurricane hugo rolled through the virgin islands in the late 80s, there was a lot of chaos and violence and law enforcement in the virgin islands were not able to cope with it and people were getting hurt. the u.s. constitution, to seize weapons from anyone. nothing in this order gives any authorization to the national guard. or the general to seize weapons from any citizen. tucker: i appreciate that clarification. we are grateful that you told us what it means. thanks, governor. i ve got to get back to my rescue operations. tucker: i bet you do, thanks for joining us tonight. mark stein is the best-selling author and a frequent guest on the show and he joins us now for reaction to all that. i don t know if you saw that segment with the governor, it s hard to know exactly what he was talking about but he seemed to say that under no circumstances with the national guard be seizing anyone s arms. it was a fantastically obfuscate every interview despite your best efforts. it does make the point by the way, if i was a resident of the u.s. virgin islands i would not be altogether reassured by that performance because i think as we ve seen in the last couple of weeks, the difference between what happened with hurricane harvey and what happened with hurricane katrina is actually the confidence and competence of the local officials there on the ground. i would hope that when he has more pressing aspects of this phenomenon to attend to that he is slightly more clear on what his intention was and the reason for it. tucker: i covered hurricane katrina, i was there right after the storm and the then-mayor of that city, who i think is now in jail, confiscated the guns of citizens in the city and the police melted away the second the levees broke and there was widespread crime, some of it violent and horrible. maybe the lesson is you do need to protect yourself when a catastrophe hits. i think that s absolutely true. i think in the best circumstances it s what we have seen in texas that it s an alliance between the state and individual citizens doing what they can as with the cajun navy and so forth. that is certainly going to be true when it s out in the caribbean. we all know that if a hurricane hits the caribbean you are better off in the bahamas man in haiti when it hits. were better off in barbados than in cuba. the problem here is that that applies to u.s. jurisdictions, too. i hope the u.s. virgin islands comes close on the texas end of these things than the new orleans end of these things. tucker: i hope so, i was a little confused by the end of you. stay with us if you were coming hillary clinton s book is about to come out. she still blaming everyone else but herself for the defeat. we got new excerpts in the book just leaked today, looks pretty interesting actually. immigration activists all teaming up to denounce the decision on daca yesterday. what motivates their outrage, we talked to two supporters of daca just ahead to try and find out. each year sarah climbs 58,007 steps. that s the height of mount everest. because each day she chooses to take the stairs. at work, at home. even on the escalator. that can be hard on her lower body, so now she does it with dr. scholl s orthotics. clinically proven to relieve and prevent foot, knee or lower back pain, by reducing the shock and stress that travel up her body with every step she takes. so keep on climbing, sarah. you re killing it. dr. scholl s. born to move. wherwhere we always welcome you, that s texas.exas. where we always find a way, that s texas. experience amazing. when itrust the brandtburn, doctors trust. nexium 24hr is the number one choice of doctors and pharmacists for their own frequent heartburn. and all day, all night protection. when it comes to heartburn, trust nexium 24hr. investigation of the russians. i also think i was the victim of a very broad assumption i was going to win. it is all the storm is about guys over in macedonia who are running these fake news sites. tucker: i was the victim, you can sum it up in that phras phrase. hillary clinton last may laying blame everywhere except for herself for her defeat in 2016. her book length take on that campaign which is called what happened. it s about to come out and she changed her thinking, apparently not. she d take some responsibility for defeat apparently but later falls back on blame, of course, sexism, for unpopularity. what makes me such a lightning rod for fury? i m really asking, i m at a loss. i think it s partly because i m a woman. mark steyn has written many books that do not involve blaming others for his problems. he joins us tonight. do you feel people discriminate you because you are a man? i blame you, tucker. as far as i can see it you are about the only person that hillary clinton hasn t blamed. i don t know how. this is extraordinary to me. every hurricane from hurricane be to hurricane see including hurricane bernie, hurricane fighting, hurricane macedonia, hurricane sexism, have all just gathered to me continuously for two years. it s extraordinary to me that the democrats have not had a quiet word and say i know that you need a new book but why don t you just to hillary clinton, tips on being a grandmother, hillary clinton cookbook, anything would be better than just revisiting. it must be the only people it s good for, as you say she blamed the macedonian content farmers, and it must be good for macedonian tourism like new zealand after lord of the rings came out. there must be people booking vacations in macedonia right now saying i ve got to see it it s a pilgrimage for the people who took out the most inevitable presidential candidate in history. if macedonia is fully booked i will go up to burlington, vermont, and see bernie sanders. tucker: she wasn t going to write deep thoughts by hillary clinton, the shortest book ever written. have you noticed how the most entitled people often see themselves as victims? this is someone for whom, who obviously didn t become the nominate on the strength of her own achievements, which were i don t know, what? wrecking libya. i don t understand why she sees herself as put upon it when i think objectively she is just the opposite. i think that s why people did not warm to her, because she was the entitled candidate. she felt like she was owed it for having suffered through being married to bill clinton and being in the white house for bill clinton. i don t think people were sexist about her and i don t think people anywhere in the developed world i sat through prime minister s questions in the australian parliament a couple years ago when the female prime minister juliet was being hammered by the deputy leader of the opposition, julie bishop, now the foreign minister. they were going at it, hammer and tongs, they were both women who have reached the summit of their respective parties on their own merits. what nobody liked about hillary clinton was that she was not an obvious candidate except in the sense that she felt she was entitled to be the candidate. tucker: thought it was a hereditary deal. i wonder going forward if you see hillary clinton as the standard-bearer for the democratic party ten years from now. is there hillary -isms. does any part of her indoor? i think the opposite. i think that s where they attack on bernie sanders is not going to work for her. whatever you feel about it, the democrats are trending in a bernie-like direction, that s where the enthusiasm is. i think there s absolutely no doubt in that respect that the party is moving left and hillary has no ideological or philosophical worldview that s going to outlast her candidacy. that was true from the vet. the african pain. she calls him out the bernie, the one whose promising everybody a free pony, whatever you feel about that, bernie sanders is with the democrats are headed and they will barely remember they hillary candidacy. tucker: at the date point, that s exactly right. i want my pony. thank you as always. satellite, tucker! tucker: saddle up, giddy up up! much of the republican establishment all in an uproar over the presidents suspension of daca. we will talk to to supporters of that program and have brit hume break down the political situation. we will be right back. go your own way copd tries to say, go this way. i say, i ll go my own way with anoro. go your own way once-daily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators, that work together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. anoro is not for asthma . it contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. the risk is unknown in copd. anoro won t replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, high blood pressure, glaucoma, prostate, bladder, or urinary problems. these may worsen with anoro. call your doctor if you have worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain while taking anoro. ask your doctor about anoro. go your own way get your first prescription free at anoro.com. to make something original. .has grown into an enterprise. that s why i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. now, i m earning unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase i make. everything. which adds up to thousands of dollars back every year. .and helps keep my passion growing. .in every direction. what s in your wallet? is intact, microsoft has already announced it will fight as hard as possible to block the deportation of illegal immigrants hired at the expense of american citizens because of course microsoft is now its own country. what drives all this anger ang? the editor in of reason, the libertarian publication. welcome to you both. catherine, since you are a libertarian, let me ask a philosophical question, do we have an obligation to put the interest of american citizens ahead of the interests of immigrants? no, i don t think so. in particular tucker: american citizens don t give priority? i don t think those things were in conflict. and it s fair to ask the question though. in general if you don t think that american citizens ought to get meaningful priority over aliens. i don t know if this means to say meaningful priority over aliens. american citizens benefit when people come here come over here and raise families here. it is absolutely the case that these dreamers in particular are going to add to our economy, add to our culture, make america a better place. tucker: none of that is necessarily true. those are massive assumptions that in some cases are true in some cases are false. if you could determine in a specific case if there s one job and you have a choice between someone who came here illegally and someone who was an american citizen, wouldn t automatically go for the american citizen? you could ask similarly do i feel favor protectionist policies. is it more important for the chapter beer. tucker: i vehemently disagree with you i want the viewers to know what your position is on that. there are a ton of unemployed americans. i think we could all agree a lot more of them ought to be working than art. why would we be issuing any work permits to anybody from outside the country until those people have jobs? i think i have more faith in the american people maybe in folks who think they need a hand up or a special place at the front of the line. i think americans are exceptional. i think we produce exceptional people who can compete with folks that are coming into the country. tucker: they are unemployed right now is what i m saying. i thought liberals were care about that. some folks obviously what is to say we should favor people were unemployed over people who currently have a job. i think that you get to a place when we are trying to create classes of people that when we permit that to happen that ultimately swings away from our favor. tucker: it s really simple. we have a lot of people around the world who want to come here and work in the united states for a bunch of different reasons. we also have a bunch of american citizens who were born here who do not have jobs, were not working. that s bad. why would we get any work permits to people from other countries while we still have americans who aren t working, i don t understand? i think in this case we already done it. 800,000 kids who only know this country, who have these work authorizations and we are about taking them away. you want to talk about what drives my anger. tucker: where talking about continuing it. no one disputes, it s a tough question. i don t want to oversimplify. tucker: i know that you are a caring person. tucker: i actually care about americans more than i care about illegal aliens. it makes me pro-american and i don t understand why nobody seems to care. the idea that the more immigrants we have, the better off we are. if that s true then why isn t california richer? california is poor than it was 40 years ago when it was totally overwhelmed by immigration. surely you know that the only thing happening in california in the last decades was not immigration. when you think about tucker: because of immigration. it swung the legislature to the left. we are talking about mostly mexicans, right? 80% mexican. where talking about safe 500,000 mexicans, lower rates of incarceration, higher rates of education. they contribute, they are a typical dreamer. tucker: that s not true. that s not true. have to have a high school education to qualify for the program. where talk about daca here. tucker: that s totally false. where talking about the dreamers here. there is an absolute very, very clear situation here in which these people are the kind of immigrants that even people like you who are essentially restriction nests should like. i ve already been assimilated. tucker: some are not individuals. people are nervous because of chain immigration. you let one person and all of those relatives, too. that s a real thing. what s an appropriate level of immigration into this country, how many people should we let in? come crazy but i believe in the american ideal that we are a place for people who are downtrodden, abused can come tucker: so everybody wants to come? what s the limit? we have systems that are broken, an asylum system. we need to focus on fixing those things. tucker: how many should we let in? it s not a hard question. like how many? we could get to a billion people by the end of the century really easily. if we had a billion people in america america would be unstoppable. that would be amazing. think about driving force think about the economy. tucker: you noticed that our economy has become less impressive over the last 40 years. the main thing that has happened is the mask change due to immigration. you don t see the connection. do you think it s even remotely, possibly true that a bunch of people who came here, brought by their parents, median age six years old cornell 22 years old and have jobs that pay, i don t know, $18 an hour, that s the problem with america? i don t think that s the problem. i think our broader immigration service doesn t serve american citizens. we are out of time. thank you. planned parenthood even date and weighed in daca because every left-wing organization must express the same views on everything. the president asked why and why statement. here at planned parenthood we firmly believe that every person has the right to live. [laughs] apparently the batteries and planned parenthood s irony detectors failed. brit hume joins us now. i think this actually is its complicated question, what to do with all these people but i don t think there is a complicated debate in process. i see a lot more outrage and screaming and yelling and name-calling. when we have a real debate? first of all, i take your point about planned parenthood talk about everyone having a right to live. tucker: pretty wonderful. pretty hard not to choke on that. beyond that, what strikes me besides the melodrama, if you look at it for longer than just a few seconds to realize a couple of things. one is, of course, that this dreaded event is not going to happen. if it ever does come another six months, which means congress has time to legislate this if it will. at the president opens a huge trapdoor in the whole thing what he said yesterday that if congress doesn t act he s prepared to revisit the issue. it s pretty clear that he doesn t want to do this. he felt for whatever reason, not least probably the fact that daca s constitutionality is deeply suspect, that he needed to draw a line. it seemed clear to me that if congress does not act that he s not going to do this. he s not going to go forward with it, he will delay. built into what he proposed anyway, the potential for delay in individual cases and so on. my guess tonight is that none of these 800,000 or so will ever be deported. tucker: i would bet my car on that. more broadly, and it s still early, the president is not turning out to be as tough on immigration of a lot of his critics beard and supporters hoped. that s right. i think you would like to get something for his willingness to go along with the signing of a bill that would make daca legal. maybe he would like to get some wall funding or other measures to toughen up our border enforcement. that sounds like the shape of the kind of compromise that used to be common in washington. tucker: is that even possible now? you think it would be, on paper it looks like it should be. but in this pluralized atmosphere in which we are operating nobody wants to give . he could maybe make a deal with some democrats located on these budgetary matters in the hurricane relief funding and the debt limit, which is a short term real which is being looked at which was just reached today, looked at kind of like an outright win for nancy pelosi and chuck schumer, the democratic leaders in the two houses. that used to be the kind of thing that went on all the time but in recent years it s been less likely the case. i think it s anybody s guess. i still think that even if they can t make a deal that he will yield on this, that he will not go forward. tucker: a lot of hysteria has been wasted. i think you re right. this is typical of the pattern with the trim coverage. it is the job of journalists to show the american people want this president really is like and all about. straightforward reporting will do the job. journalists seem not content with that. there comments at the washington post and elsewhere that might essentially the same post over and over again reminding us about trumps personal characteristics, even some more going along with him have long recognized. i think the job is basically done and they can t let it alone. tucker: think it would he was like when he voted for him. i haven t not read that paper here and i m never reading it again. the latest work for the washington post, thank you. get a job, don t use drugs, those are values that used to define america. they are still values to follow, why is a professor being threatened for saying it out loud? plus, and update, an important one on black lives matter and its response to hurricane harvey in houston. an amazing story, stay tuned for that. to most people, i look like most people. but on the inside, i feel chronic, widespread pain. fibromyalgia may be invisible to others, but my pain is real. fibromyalgia is thought to be caused by overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. i m glad my doctor prescribed lyrica. for some, lyrica delivers effective relief for moderate to even severe fibromyalgia pain. and improves function. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects: dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, swelling of hands, legs and feet. don t drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don t drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who ve had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. with less pain, i can do more with my family. talk to your doctor today. see if lyrica can help. oh, you yeah!ht butch. (butch growls at man) he s looking at me right now, isn t he? yup. (butch barks at man) butch is like an old soul that just hates my guts. (laughs) (vo) you can never have too many faithful companions. introducing the all-new crosstrek. love is out there. find it in a subaru crosstrek. than this summer. why? because right now we re seeing our average customer save $20,000. but with the fed already talking about raising rates, this window will not last for long. lendingtree is the only place to compare up to 5 real refinance offers against your current mortgage - for free. are you sure you have the best rate? take 3 minutes and find out right now. because at lendingtree, when banks compete, you win. tucker: amy wax of the university of pennsylvania and larry alexander of the university of california in san diego at la jolla. both law professors, they just released an essay in which they say america is paying the price for the breakdown of the country s bourgeois culture. all cultures are not equal, they wrote. bourgeois values which promote hardware, patriotism and responsible child-rearing are conducive for the success in modern environment. what is, antisocial habits prevalent among working-class whites, the antiwhite culture of inner-city blacks. those don t work, the authors say. now they are being threatened for saying that. larry alexander joins us tonight. thanks for coming on. thank you for having me, tucker. let me make one correction in the intro. i don t teach at the university of california in san diego, i teach at the university of san diego. tucker: ust! at the law school. we have a law school, they don t. tucker: good for you. okay, professor at the university of san diego. did i mischaracterize the point of your paper? our point was essentially as you represented it. my fear when we wrote this was the people were just going to shrug and say that is so obvious, he really didn t need to say it, it s just sober now, as you noted that hasn t been the reaction from all corners. tucker: what has the reaction been? interest income at the reaction at university of pennsylvania professor wax teaches has been extraordinary. she was condemned by some of her colleagues not because they took issue with any particular thing that we said in the op-ed, she was just condemned for essentially saying what we said. there were no allegations that anything we said was incorrect. next we went in other words, truth in the academy is no longer a defense, is that the point? that s true. because what s more important is to signal that you are on the side of the good guys, even if that means denying something that is true. it s a matter of are you in the in group or the outgroup. tucker: if you have academics knowingly denying things they know are true, isn t that the definition of corruption? yes, unfortunately it is. almost every person who took umbrage at what we said in the academy actually practices the very virtues we were asked only in the piece. they teach their kids this. they don t teach their kids the opposite of what we ve prescribed. tucker: that s exactly right. i live in a neighborhood full of liberals who don t get divorced and go to bed at 10:00 p.m., whose kids are obedient. why do you think this was so offensive and? you are describing the lives if they lead, why would they be outreach? there may be three hypotheses for why some people don t do well in the country. one is they just black and native talent and ability, another is their behavior is not conducive to doing well and the third is that there are structural impediments to their doing well. it s just orthodoxy now in some corners in the academy and outside the academy for that matter that it s the latter that has to be true, it s not the first to tell mike to go. what we are saying is no, that s not the case. tucker: and orthodoxy is always the enemy of toothed tell my truth. we are out of time, i appreciate your bravery, thanks for doing that and thanks for coming on. you re welcome. tucker: coalition of conservative groups demanding the press stop attending the southern poverty law center is an authoritative, or objective, source for who is a hate group and who is not. we will talk to the head of one of those groups next. asked you these questions? i had never met anybody from the navy that s why i was, like, asking you all kinds of questions. yeah. i honestly didn t know what the marines did. everybody s experience is unique. you got musicians, you have cooks, you have admin people. i just think people should be more open minded. just get to know the person. yes. they should know this? yeah. the guy was my brother-in-law. that s ridiculous. well, i happen to know some people. do they listen? what? they re amazing listeners. nice. guidance from professionals who take their time to get to know you. footage right here of the march in progress. there is, pretty inspiring. we will keep following this breaking story as it continues. as we told you before on the show and documented pretty conclusively, the southern poverty law center is a progressive active activist group like hundreds of others but for some reason the media have anointed them the national arbiter for what is or what is not a hate group, which is a shame since they are totally fake and dishonest. now 47 conservative leaders and organizations have released a letter calling on the media to stop citing the southern poverty law center and its fake data calling it discredited and defamatory. tony perkins of the president of the family resource council, once the victim of a terrorist attack by the rhetoric. he joins us tonight. thanks for joining us tonight. if i m not misunderstanding that you are attempting to convince media to stop taking this fake group seriously, correct? in part. we re putting me on notice that if you re going to take them on, liberal activist organization that acts as a pitfall for the left. no offense to pitfalls out ther there, they are endangering the lives of people by putting up this information from the southern law center which has no basis in fact. tucker: to call someone i hate group is to lump them in with nazis and crazy people and violent people, truly scary people. that s what they did for the first two decades of their hate list. two years into the obama administration when it was open season on christian organizations that were opposing obama administration, that s when they started adding christian groups to their list and they started popping up in 2010 when president obama unleashed his hostility towards religion and the secretary of state hillary clinton was taking the same agenda overseas. tucker: you would think that any normal reporter, the matter how liberal, looking through the list of hate groups, so-called hate groups, some of them are clearly hateful and crazy and then they get to the family research council and say i may not agree with our agenda but they are not a hate group. why does nobody at, say cnn the washington post, think this is overreached. it s not a hate group, it s a christian group. it s acquired thinking. there s a bigger agenda behind this. the former spokesman for the southern poverty law center, mark, he made very clear, he said we don t have any objective criteria here. this is not based on criminality or violence. we are trying to wreck the groups, we are trying to destroy the groups. this is, again the last pitbull going after those who oppose the agenda. the media needs to be put on record knowing that that s what s behind the splc. tucker: it s just so dishonest. it s like treating media matters like a legitimate media analysis group, which the press also did until they were called on it repeatedly. have you had any response from media organizations to your letter? not really. the conservative groups, conservative media that understands what the splc is up to, yes, they are publishing it. others not so much. here s the thing, tucker. they now know they have no excuse when there s another attack like we saw against republicans, the congressman or the attack on the frc five years ago, the media has become complacent in this violence was inspired by the southern law center. i hate that garbage. tony, thank you so much. if you want to have a good time go watch the goonies, but a start from that movie, martha plimpton says abortion in seattle can be a great time too. she actually said that. we will show you the very latest from martha plimpton, it will blow your mind. wherwhere we always welcome you, that s texas.exas. where we always find a way, that s texas. our guests can earn a free night when they book at choicehotels.com and stay with us just two times? fall time. badda book. badda boom. pumpkin spice cookie? i m good. book now at choicehotels.com i m living that yacht life, life, life top speed fifty knots life on the caribbean seas it s a champagne and models potpourri on my yacht made of cuban mahogany, gany, gany, gany, gany watch this don t get mad (bell mnemonic) get e trade and get invested tucker: the goonies is a light family movie made in the simpler times before politics affects us liberally in every american light. one actress in the movie was martha plimpton. she is now grown up. she was in a pro-abortion rally in seattle. yes, they do exist. at the rally, plimpton said this. i had my first abortion at the seattle planned parenthood. yay! notice i said first. i said first and i don t want seattle, i don t want you guys to feel insecure. it was my best one. [laughter] tucker: a lot of things you could say about that. it s gross and disturbing distt
The day s biggest political and news stories, with interviews and reporting from around the nation. donald trump saying bob mueller has a conflict of interest. what s he referring to? a dispute i imagine he disclosed it to rosenstein when he appointed him because it involved something last year wasn t settled to this day. that s up to the president and mueller to describe. what s the conflict? i can t tell you. are you saying the business conflict mueller and president trump had, is that about his golf course. i m not going to go any further. he s not going further on that. there were some specifics when guiliani talked about other alleged meetings before the trump tower meeting. the meeting with the russians, how can you be sure that the president didn t know before. it s he said she said. nobody can be sure of anything. in a situation like this you have two things that argue against cohen. two-on-one sorry, three like an independent contradictions. he says there was a meeting with donald junior with jared kushner and paul manafort and deatgates possibly two others out of the presence of the president, discussed the russians. we checked with their lawyers, the ones we could check with, four of the six, that meeting never ever took place. didn t happen, a figment of his imagination or is lying. let s deal with the figments clearly. guiliani says the only reason he brought up this other meeting he says did not happen, that he wanted to get out in front of a leak. ruddy is saying michael s big secret evidence, if he has it, is actually nothing. you can think of this attack that is an argument, michael cohen is like geraldo but going to open this famous vault and the vault is actually empty, no meeting. guiliani s right, if michael cohen s big vault of evidence doesn t have anything in it that will deal with the probe, we ll see. michael cohen and lanny davis are not geraldo, they re not standing in front of a vault. this whole thing is weird why we re reaching for weird references. how do you accuse someone going full geraldo, promising a vault, in this case, a meeting, when they haven t done it and there s no vault. i begin with this absurd line of questioning. member of the new york times editorial review board and wall street journal and former top aide to hillary clinton and ceo of the center for american progress. shelby, let me start with you. what does it mean when rudy guiliani says michael cohen might come forward in front of this vault but the vault is empty and yet we re at a period in this debate michael cohen haven t done that. there is a lot of ways to that as a pretty big bombshell in and of itself yeah. a fact we should be deeply anxious about the legitimacy of this president. that s up on your screen, you see this news screen and see guiliani says colluding with russia is not a crime. that s a bad thing, whether colluding with russia or iran or whomever, that s a bad thing now being sold as not a crime. we have done reporting on this show and i think folks are aware depending what the collusion entails it can be a crime because an international conspiracy to get a thing of value or impact an election is criminal activity, it depends who knew what where or when. as experienced as you are of the campaign of media where these things play out, let s look why guiliani says he is the first mover bringing up the pre-meeting geraldo same thing. take a listen. why do i mention it? because first of all, i thought it was going to come out. second, my experience is when you have stuff like this floating around it comes out. i don t want it to come out and be unrebutted when it originally comes out. got it. part of what we re trying to do here, the jury for this case is the american public. neera, given you re disclosed as an opponent to him, he seems to be telling the truth there how he views this and his motivations. absolutely. look, throughout this whole long national nightmare of this investigation where the president has seemingly lied regularly, what s obvious is that the trump legal team is their foremost goal is indict the prosecution and drive opposition to the prosecution, make it impossible for republicans to act because it s seen through a partisan lens, and it s almost as if they concede on some level that they re guilty and their goal is just to make it impossible for a jury to convict. like in a normal trial, what this would be seen as trying to tamper with the jury pool. i think in some way that is what guiliani is confessing to, trying to throw up as much mud as possible so american people are confused with whatever mueller comes out with. let s be candid, do you that when you re guilty, not when you re innocent. you know, i m struck by something rudy said. he said nobody can be sure of anything. i think, you know, it sounds almost putinesque. like are we even here right now, man? is this happening? is there truth or is there truth? maybe we re still in class and this is a dream. exactly. you re right. that s a putin talking point. a very good point. that s very nefarious. rudy guiliani and the president, too, they have a long history of, you know, using new york city tabloids to do the same thing. you fight for you fight in the public arena. so what you can t do in the courtroom, you try and do, you know, in the court of public opinion. i think this is the case where they seem very worried about what will happen in the courtroom. about the real stuff. that s right. they can t control that, right? they re doing what they do best, throw a pr blitz and sew enough doubt if not the american people, their base, to prevent the political fall-out. there s a legal process here. when you talk about something like impeachment for example, that s a political process, not a legal one. they are laser focused on that. one more thing while i have mara, i want you to take a listen to anthony scaramucci, a pretty loyal trump aide but goes possible for not directly lying and says that puts him closer and how we got here and there is a freak-out tonight puts him closer to advance knowledge of a potential conspiracy. we re at a point now every person in america needs to decide for himself or herself, are you going to believe what s in front of your eyes or are you going to see things through partisanship or tribalism in some never-neverland. i think unfortunately that s where we ve come to. we don t know what the outcome of the mueller investigation is yet. that s fine, let that process play out. we don t. we do have other reporting and indictments taken place so far we don t need to believe the president when he calls this a witch hunt. we know that s not the case. let s just stick to the facts. one other thing antetokounmpoant because they love donald trump, even if you re inclined to give the benefit of the down, that was 2016, they were inexperienced, yatta yatta. 2018, not so inexperienced, has the full benefit of the national security apparatus and continues to go in, in an in-person public forum with the president of russia known to be a killer and have human rights abuses by the justice department and continue to take that side over the u.s., how does one look at this and say, it s a conspiracy theory, there s no support for it, it seems to be going on actively before our eyes. absolutely. let s point out, if donald trump did act improperly with the russians, obviously, vladamir putin would know that. the weird thing about this whole situation is trump behaves that way. he behaves as if the russians have information on him. every political advisory in the world would say, go have a meeting with putin and act tough with putin. defend america s interests. he attacks all our allies yet almost cowers in front of putin. to americans living their lives, that behavior was inexplicable except for the notion putin has something on him, or there is something to the story. he really did prove, in a sense, give evidence in people s minds to believing the whole array of illegal acts in front of us. right. listening to you, i feel more informed but i don t feel better. nothing nothing is part of this will make you feel better ever? it s informational but not cathardic. three experts tonight. coming up, trump may ease sanctions of a putin ollie guard. former ambassador michael mcfaul is here. and tampering with that infamous audiotape, what s up with that. we are 99 days from these pivotal mid-terms and a look how key women candidates and voters are. i will talk to two candidates whose victories could give victory back. and the judge talking about her workout and how long she may be on the bench. not so cute when they re angry. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we ve seen a thing or two. we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum when you combine ancestry s with its historical records. you could learn you re from ireland donegal, ireland and your ancestor was a fisherman. with blue eyes. just like you. begin your journey at ancestry.com yep, thanks guys. i think he might need some support. yes start them off right. with the school supplies they need at low prices all summer long. save $200 on this dell laptop at office depot officemax. of dollars in hopes of a good return. this was one of the first examples of paul manafort using offshore accounts we found, a practice that would later get him in trouble. trouble indeed. now is the moment for the trump administration to float sanctions relief for him. those original april sanctions mandated by congress made deripaska the biggest loser by those sanctions. i m joined by former ambassador michael mcfaul a sergeant by putin and he held a meeting at the white house about that issue. thank you for joining me. if they lift these sanctions, what message does that send? that they re not serious about changing putin s behavior. a series of sanctions is you go after companies and individuals to put economic pressure on them to pressure their government to change its foreign policy behavior. it s a rickshaw thing, a bank shot. putin hasn t changed his behavior, if anything he s gotten more aggressive as we saw in helsinki, and against me, by the way. it sends a horrible message that the administration doesn t have a strategy for the sanctions they have implemented from the past. you mentioned that and as i said, spoken out about. why did my president, my commander in chief, my fellow american call putin s scheme about me an incredible offer. what did you get from the white house meeting. that s pretty over the top language. i didn t know i wrote that. just kidding. all getting hyperbolic these days. to be accused as a criminal by vladamir putin is a pretty intense moment. i met with many government officials last week in the trump administration. my message was a clear one. i was happy they finally got to a position where they were rejecting this offer, this generous offer by putin to interrogate me and the other 11 americans. i think that s clear. i want them to reject preemptively the idea they might seek to detain us through the interpol system. what did you think of their response to you? you can ask them that. i m not going to read that out. they asked me not to. i will keep the focus on that. you want to respect the confidential as specific of that that involves national security issues, get that. you look at how deripaska operates, not that he s a free wheeling businessman but very much an agent or cutout or helper to the putin regime. let me read in fairness what the treasury department is saying for your analysis. the sanctions have caused havoc in the global aluminum market, secretary mnuchin saying our objective is not to put deripaska s company out of business. first of all, they should have thought about that when they put deripaska on the list in the first place. measuring the unintended consequences of sanctions. i participated at many many meetings at the white house with respect to iranian sanctions in that regard. second, why do we care about the future of that company? why is it in our national interests to care about that company. i don t know. are these rhetorical questions? my answer is we probably don t. if it opens up space in the market. mnuchin is a free market guy. if it opens up space, so be it. just to come back to the main point, the purpose of sanctions is to change putin s behavior. putin s behavior has not changed. when you lift sanctions before he changes his behavior, that sends a pretty powerful signal you re not serious about wanting him to change his behavior. ambassador michael mcfaul, who s been in the eye of the hurricane often not by choice, thank you for being on tonight. michael cohen saying the tape may be tampered with, and what s rudy trying to do? a break in just 30 seconds. tampering. more than likely, he came back home, erased the portion he wanted erased and tried to tape record a conversation, it appears, with don junior and might have gotten that, too, and erased that. you ve spoken to don jr. what is the part that was erased? i have no idea. does donald trump remember? no. it could be good for donald trump. we have determined the fact he tampered with the tape in the sense that he abruptly, mid-conversation turned it off. i think they put it out because they wanted the doctored version to obscure whatever else might be on that type, i m sure it will be good for us. i m joined. thank you both for joining us. i don t know persuasive you remember the rapper, j.o. felony, he was very proud of his felonies. i feel like guiliani is basically turning this into mike felony and if true turning this into a true crime. this if true would be a big deal and if false, the false accusation of a crime is also a big deal. rudy is gambling on the facts he s looking for court opinion. you re right. if there are tapes tampered with and offered into evidence that would be a big deal. huge. if you have just a tape recording on your phone, which is all these tapes cohen has appear to be and you cut it off inadvertently, or even on purpose while taping on your telephone, that s a very different thing than something you testify to in court and audited kate and offer as evidence. i take your nuance, joyce, very important. you re helping us understand this is probably hyperbolic and not real tampering. it would be a big deal for them to go out and accuse him of tampering. it absolutely would be. guiliani is operating on the narrow edge of ethical rules courts expect lawyers to follow. it s surprising to a lot of people the bar has not yet sanctioned him for some of this conduct. as you say, that is where there are real rules that apply to anyone who say there s the practicing attorney for the president or anyone else. then the privileged part important even though rudy talks about it in a sort of loose manner. take a listen. we have complained to them that he s violating the attorney-client privilege publicly and privately. why did you waive the attorney-client privilege for the cohen tapes. because if i didn t waive it i wouldn t be able to tell you he cuts it off, which he does, right after the word check. explain. it s very confusing. attorney client privilege is a rule once you let the cat out of the bag you can t put it back in. once rudy waives privilege there s nothing for cohen to violate in talking about it. rudy is talking a lot of word salad today and to see what will stick on the walls. this one will not stick and there s no there there. this is the point you don t need to be a lawyer, if your argument is, how dare you take advantage of the things i did privilege is out and it seems like we re done there. it is. word salad is one word and weaponized gas lighting is another word i would use to describe what the trump administration has been doing a long time and what has been happening in the last few days with rudy guiliani. he is saying michael cohen doctored the tapes. if the trump administration wasn t smart enough to issue hush money, i don t think he s smart enough to doctor a tape. you don t imagine him in a basement? i don t know. i have trouble with that image. like making a second soundcloud. maybe. what we re seeing also is rudy guiliani is basically michael cohening michael cohen. michael cohen was donald trump s lawyer but he didn t do a lot of lawyering. what he did was a lot of trying to kill stories and threaten to kill people who had stories on donald trump. classic example during the campaign ivanka trump s own words had been leaked she felt violated by donald trump and he threatened the lawyer and tried to kill the story and when he couldn t said it is not a crime to rape your wife and a different yes-man with the same sort of strategy. one other contrast is we know trump and cohen were having a lot of conversations. one difference with rudy is they literally seem to speak through the television. this is something i think leads people to underestimate them, this idea, rudy is making it up and is so sloppy. no, i think there s a method to it. the method is, if there s no professional or personal pride in the words you say and work you do, you can do a rough draft on live tv, and he did a few hours later calling in to another interview. it s all just content and if it gets over the line of ethical standard, there is a bar that can do things to rudy. with all of that, i want to play about michael making news that there are other case, other women, at least one he alleged involve the tabloid company doing favors for trump could be a new and separate legal in fraction. take a look. > have three clients that have hired me as their counsel. each of them had a relationship with president trump and each were paid prior to the election. that s previously disclosed and not karen mcdougal, correct? correct. what about the significance of a whole other case like stormy daniels we don t know about yet? i think you will need a whole new second hour for your show because there s so much to do to cover these stories. i want to come back to what you were saying before, there s a strategy rudy guiliani uses, the same that donald trump used, call in to shows and say one thing and another thing. this is a weaponized form of gas lighting but weaponized incompetence, sounding like they don t really know, they re dumb, they re not dumb, they know exactly what they re doing, doing it on purpose, a cover-up. they re trying to cover up something and we saw them say michael cohen can t be taken seriously, but the republican party are complicit in that they don t know what crimes they re covering up. i think you re making a point that overlaps some of which joyce was putting out, if the details of the facts doesn t favor you, you turn to the mush. people say, what is this? it isn t a legal brief, it s applesauce. what is applesauce? it is a cynical play and doesn t mean it won t work and why we will keep reporting on the vigilance of it. my thanks, to joyce and liz. coming up, justice ruth bader ginsburg, i have to get her name right about her exercise routine and time on the court. and democrats say they can take back the house and gain subpoena power. we will speak with two candidates on the front lines live next. and i can do it with what s already within me. because my body can still make its own insulin. and once-weekly trulicity activates my body to release it. trulicity is not insulin. it comes in a once-weekly, truly easy-to-use pen. it works 24/7. trulicity is an injection to improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise. don t use it as the first medicine to treat diabetes or if you have type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. don t take trulicity if you or your family have medullary thyroid cancer, you re allergic to trulicity, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. stop trulicity and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, or severe stomach pain. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. taking trulicity with a sulfonylurea or insulin increases your low blood sugar risk. common side effects include nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, abdominal pain, and decreased appetite. these can lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. i choose once-weekly trulicity to activate my within. if you need help lowering your a1c, ask your doctor about once-weekly trulicity. booking a flight doesn t have to be expensive. just go to priceline. it s the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40%. just tap and go. for the best savings on flights, go to priceline. crisp leaves of lettuce. freshly made dressing. clean food that looks this good. delivered to your desk. now delivering to home or office. panera. food as it should be. running that fight there are a record number of women running for office, some emerging out of tough and contested primaries and 307 on the democratic side looking to reshape the face of the democratic party. that s me. an air force combat veteran to a mom. lucy went from a mom to powerful voice. national teacher of the year. i m jahana hayes. i know my truth. i know it does not reflect us. life gets haerther for women like me. after i served our country in the air force, i came home to take care of mom. through my work as a nurse. i know how critical it is to get healthcare coverage. two of the women you just saw are joining me now. running to be the first latina to represent texas in that capacity and lauren underwood, a registered nurse to be the first person of color to represent her district in illinois. thank you both. gina, why are you running? thanks for having me. i d be a couple of first, the first out member of congress from texas and first asian-american member from texas. we have two great latinas, that will represent us in washington. as we say in the business, my bad and my apologies. it s all good. i m very excited to be running and just spent the last couple of days in west texas. this district spans san antonio to el paso and the largest district that is not its own state. folks are so excited, it s not about winning. for many folks they know what is on the ballot. healthcare is on the ballot. it s the issue that come understand the most, can t afford it today or fearful they can t afford it tomorrow. 70% of this district is rural. folks know we need representatives to fight for healthcare. 1 in 6 texans is uninsured. 1 in 6 kids in texas here go to school and rely on c.h.i.p. or medicaid for insurance. we know we re 99 days away from the most consequential election of our lifetime but know we re celebrating the 53rd anniversary of the signing of medicaid and medicare by another great texan leader, lbj and programs are so vital to so many americans everyday. we have to protect these programs and i look forward to protect opportunities to allow me to grow healthy and have opportunity. i assume everyone is talking healthcare out there. is that your most experienced? absolutely. i m a registered nurse decided to run coming out of a broken promise from my representative. he said he would protect people like me with pre-existing conditions and he broke his word. as i travel around the seven counties in northern illinois, folks are talking about how can we afford our prescription drugs and how we pay our premium prices when folks are facing astronomical prices rising. healthcare is the forefront issue of this campaign. we have to fix our system. a question for both of you as women running in a year we re seeing historical records broken with women candidates and there s so many references to the aggregate view of politics of trump and that seems to obscure something i know you both know about, a gender gap. look at the support among women, a higher negative view of trump, 65% negative than when you break it out otherwise. to both of you, what does that mean, starting with lauren? i think that what we see among women, we are energized and motivated to do the work. in my community, women have been leading in every area of life. pta leaders, our neighborhood association and church groups, but not necessarily running nor office so we have seen an unprecedented number of women stepping up and being candidates in this era and unprecedented number of women stepping up to be activists and leading groups in our community. we have a huge number of women getting involved because we know what s at stake this year. gina, actually, let me ask you, as you know when ever you run for office, people always say, what do you think of the political advice of fat joe, right? that s just a thing every time you run. the rapper and activist was on the beat, one of our favorites, he s very adamant and active and act like trump is winning. listen to what he said. you have to act as if he s up 100 points. that s it. fuss because everybody was going to lose. everybody will get more and more depressed. all the polls said he would lose and he won. you have to run like we re losing, even if you re ahead. gina, are you following that advice or going a different direction? i am somebody that recognizes at my core there are not a lot of kids that go from reduced lunch to executive office of the president, right? that doesn t just happen. my country and my community invested in me. i am very much running to protect those opportunities. i think he s right. if we think we re working hard we have to work harder. 29 counties and texas, 23, we re working throughout them. in this race, 3,000 votes, 3,000 votes is all that separated them at the congressional level in 2016 in a district hillary won. that s a high school in texas. we have to run like healthcare is on the ballot, because it is. we have to run like say gun laws are on the ballot, because they are. we have to run like this country is worth fighting for. we clearly see we re under attack and the key role congress plays in oversight and no small part of national security and we re not seeing enough courage from congress to keep us safe. it s very interesting to hear directly from people running the races we hear about. thank you both so much. up ahead, a report on why this controversial stand your ground law now has even the nra criticizing one sheriff s application. plus, rbg saying how long she ll be on the court. traumatic injury, we have a short amount of time to get our patient to the hospital with good results. we call that the golden hour. evaluating patients remotely is where i think we have a potential to make a difference. 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it needs to stop. something needs to be done. florida senator bill nelson calling for a federal probe. he s also defending his seat against florida governor rick scott, who signed a enlarged version of stand your ground just last year. now, tomorrow the sheriff, who says that law ties his hands-s actually co-hosting a fund-raiser with candidate rick scott. so the question for them tomorrow is do they actually maintain that this state law prevents any investigation or prosecution in this situation? and if so how do you defend a law that seems to protect one-sided deadly escalation in that kind of conflict? up next we will bring you that much-promised message from ruth bader ginsburg. severe rheumatoid arthritis, month after month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. humira can help stop the clock. prescribed for 15 years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you ve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you ve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don t start humira if you have an infection. help stop the clock on further irreversible joint damage. talk to your rheumatologist. right here. right now. humira. new laptop with 24/7 tech support. yep, thanks guys. i think he might need some support. yes start them off right. with the school supplies they need at low prices all summer long. save $200 on this dell laptop at office depot officemax. you wouldn t accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? 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cause that s no ordinary family. that s your family. which is why you didn t grab just any cheese. you picked up new kraft expertly paired cheddar and swiss for eggs. beat that! kraft. family greatly. one of liberals favorite members of the supreme court has an announcement. ruth bader ginsburg says, i m now 85. justice john paul stevens stepped down when he was 90. so i think i have about at least five more years. as they say on the court, count em up. now, she certainly will be busy. justice ginsburg also having a bit of her own busy time in the culture. there s that documentary rbg which has made more than 13 million at the box office. she s also the subjective a film coming out this winter where she will be played by felicity jones. and her workout routines have led to moments in the culture like this in late night. why are you on your knees? what? i m cramping. working out with an 85-year-old woman can i ask you a question? and i want you to give me an honest answer. are you juicing? no. always honest. you don t want to commit perjury. now, i have a quick programming note before we go. i am in for rachel maddow tonight, and i am deciding whether to bring back an old tie from off the rack. so if you tune in tonight at